14:55:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
14:55:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/19-dap-irc
14:55:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:55:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
14:55:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
14:55:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:55:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
14:55:49 <trackbot> Date: 19 January 2011
14:56:04 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
14:56:10 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0068.html
14:56:15 <soonho> Present+ Soonho_Lee
14:57:00 <fjh> Chair:  Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
14:57:10 <fjh> Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
14:58:04 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
14:58:11 <Zakim> +??P4
14:58:17 <Zakim> +AnssiK
14:58:36 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:58:57 <Zakim> +harald
14:59:11 <soonho> zakim, ??P4 is Soonho_Lee
14:59:11 <Zakim> +Soonho_Lee; got it
14:59:26 <hta> hta has joined #dap
14:59:32 <Zakim> +lgombos
14:59:33 <fjh> Regrets+ Niklas_Widell , María_Oteo, Marco_Marengo, Wonsuk_Lee, Jérôme_Giraud, Claes_ Nilsson
14:59:49 <hta> Present+ Harald_Alvestrand
15:00:07 <hta> (visitor)
15:00:14 <Zakim> +??P7
15:00:23 <fjh> zakim, ??P7 is me
15:00:23 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
15:00:27 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:00:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Soonho_Lee, AnssiK, harald, lgombos, fjh
15:00:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see hta, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, soonho, cmarc, fjh, manyoung, richt, ilkka, ingmar, wmaslowski, shepazu, lgombos, trackbot, dom
15:00:33 <Suresh> Suresh has joined #dap
15:00:35 <Zakim> + +1.806.782.aaaa
15:00:43 <Zakim> +??P9
15:01:00 <hta> how do I tell zakim that hta = harald?
15:01:05 <ktaklee> ktaklee has joined #dap
15:01:08 <fjh> zakim, hta is harald
15:01:08 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named 'hta'
15:01:15 <Zakim> + +1.972.373.aabb
15:01:20 <dom> Zakim, harald is hta
15:01:20 <Zakim> +hta; got it
15:01:29 <hta> thanks!
15:01:33 <ktaklee> Present+ Kyung-Tak_Lee
15:01:34 <Suresh> zakim, Suresh is aabb
15:01:34 <Zakim> sorry, Suresh, I do not recognize a party named 'Suresh'
15:01:41 <Zakim> +dom
15:01:46 <Zakim> +??P13
15:01:47 <Suresh> zakim, aabb is Suresh
15:01:48 <Zakim> +Suresh; got it
15:01:50 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:01:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Soonho_Lee, AnssiK, hta, lgombos, fjh, +1.806.782.aaaa (muted), ??P9, Suresh, dom, ??P13
15:01:53 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
15:01:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see ktaklee, Suresh, hta, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, soonho, cmarc, fjh, manyoung, richt, ilkka, ingmar, wmaslowski, shepazu, lgombos, trackbot, dom
15:01:54 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
15:01:54 <darobin> Zakim: ??P13 is me
15:02:05 <dom> Zakim, ??P13 is me
15:02:05 <Zakim> +dom; got it
15:02:15 <dom> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Soonho_Lee, AnssiK, hta, lgombos, fjh, +1.806.782.aaaa (muted), ??P9, Suresh, dom, dom.a
15:02:19 <dom> Zakim, dom.a is really robin
15:02:19 <Zakim> +robin; got it
15:02:23 <arun_prasath> arun_prasath has joined #dap
15:02:43 <darobin> Zakim, robin is me
15:02:43 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
15:02:48 <arun_prasath> present+ arun_prasath
15:02:48 <Bo> Bo has joined #dap
15:03:14 <Zakim> + +1.301.581.aacc
15:03:28 <dom> Zakim, aacc is John
15:03:28 <Zakim> +John; got it
15:03:51 <Dzung_Tran> Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
15:03:58 <Dzung_Tran> Present+ Dzung_Tran
15:04:25 <jmorris> zakim, John is jmorris
15:04:25 <Zakim> +jmorris; got it
15:04:32 <Zakim> -Soonho_Lee
15:05:17 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
15:05:33 <jmorris> scribe is jmorris
15:05:34 <fjh> ScribeNick: jmorris
15:06:30 <fjh> Seoul F2F logistics, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-device-apis/2011Jan/0002.html (Kangchan)
15:06:30 <fjh> 2b) "Device API Access Control Use Cases and Requirements" update published, http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-dap-policy-reqs-20110118/
15:06:38 <dom> ACTION: Dom to create a registration form for Seoul F2F
15:06:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Create a registration form for Seoul F2F [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-01-26].
15:06:40 <fjh> HTML5 logo, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0062.html
15:06:40 <jmorris> TOPIC: Seoul logistics
15:07:10 <Zakim> + +0103128aadd
15:07:31 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/html/logo/#the-technology
15:08:02 <Suresh> It's a bit confusing...the logo says HTML5 but faqs say the family of technologies SVG, CSS
15:08:04 <bryan_sullivan> bryan_sullivan has joined #dap
15:08:09 <soonho> zakim, +0103128aadd is Soonho_Lee
15:08:09 <Zakim> +Soonho_Lee; got it
15:08:10 <AnssiK> http://www.w3.org/html/logo/badge/html5-badge-h-device.png
15:09:06 <jmorris> TOPIC: Approve 12 January minutes
15:09:14 <fjh> Approve 12 January minutes
15:09:14 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/att-0035/minutes-2011-01-12.html
15:09:17 <jmorris> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 12 January 2011 approved
15:09:17 <Zakim> + +1.425.214.aaee
15:09:25 <cmarc> Present +Cecile_Marc
15:09:33 <bryan_sullivan> present+ bryan_sullivan
15:09:40 <jmorris> Present+ John_Morris
15:09:59 <dom> Zakim, aaee is probably bryan_sullivan
15:09:59 <Zakim> +bryan_sullivan?; got it
15:10:03 <jmorris> TOPIC: Messaging API
15:10:14 <fjh> ISSUE-100?
15:10:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-100 -- Subscring to new messages should be done with filters and data minimization -- open
15:10:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/100
15:10:22 <jmorris> fjh: let's talk about ISSUE-100
15:10:24 <bryan_sullivan> zakim, +1.425.214.aaee is bryan_sullivan
15:10:24 <Zakim> sorry, bryan_sullivan, I do not recognize a party named '+1.425.214.aaee'
15:10:28 <darobin> ISSUE-100?
15:10:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-100 -- Subscring to new messages should be done with filters and data minimization -- open
15:10:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/100
15:10:38 <dom> -> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/messaging/ MEssaging API Editors draft
15:10:45 <dom> q+
15:10:47 <jmorris> .. thinks we can close this issue
15:10:49 <fjh> ack dom
15:11:02 <bryan_sullivan> zakim, +1425214aaee is bryan_sullivan
15:11:02 <Zakim> sorry, bryan_sullivan, I do not recognize a party named '+1425214aaee'
15:11:23 <jmorris> dom: we should perhaps postpone issues because we are not addressing subscription
15:11:34 <darobin> ISSUE-103?
15:11:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-103 -- Does the messaging API fit outside of contained environments? -- open
15:11:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/103
15:11:42 <jmorris> RESOLUTION:  postpone ISSUE-100
15:12:02 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:12:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see AnssiK, hta, lgombos, fjh, +1.806.782.aaaa (muted), ??P9, Suresh, dom, darobin, jmorris, Soonho_Lee, bryan_sullivan?
15:12:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, Dzung_Tran, Bo, arun_prasath, jmorris, ktaklee, Suresh, hta, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, soonho, cmarc, fjh, manyoung, richt, ilkka, ingmar,
15:12:07 <Zakim> ... wmaslowski, shepazu, lgombos, trackbot, dom
15:12:41 <fjh> ISSUE-103?
15:12:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-103 -- Does the messaging API fit outside of contained environments? -- open
15:12:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/103
15:12:50 <jmorris> darobin: should we also close ISSUE-103?
15:13:11 <jmorris> .. it was opened during F2F
15:13:32 <jmorris> .. about whether messaging would work outside of "contained environments"
15:13:50 <jmorris> RESOLUTION: close ISSUE-103
15:13:52 <darobin> close ISSUE-103
15:13:52 <trackbot> ISSUE-103 Does the messaging API fit outside of contained environments? closed
15:13:52 <Zakim> +??P30
15:14:26 <jmorris> fjh: are we publishing update or last call?
15:14:27 <manyoung> Present+ Manyoung_Cho
15:14:32 <jmorris> dom: let's go with update
15:14:46 <jmorris> darobin: more comfortable with review rather than last call
15:14:53 <dom> Zakim, ??P30 is probably manyoung
15:14:53 <Zakim> +manyoung?; got it
15:14:58 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:14:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see AnssiK, hta, lgombos, fjh, +1.806.782.aaaa (muted), ??P9, Suresh, dom, darobin, jmorris, Soonho_Lee, bryan_sullivan?, manyoung?
15:15:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see bryan_sullivan, Dzung_Tran, Bo, arun_prasath, jmorris, ktaklee, Suresh, hta, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, soonho, cmarc, fjh, manyoung, richt, ilkka, ingmar,
15:15:03 <Zakim> ... wmaslowski, shepazu, lgombos, trackbot, dom
15:15:05 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: publish a heartbeat WD of Messaging
15:15:18 <jmorris> RESOLUTION: publish updated Messaging API draft
15:15:22 <jmorris> oops,
15:15:27 <cathy> cathy has joined #dap
15:15:49 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to prepare Messaging for publication
15:15:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Prepare Messaging for publication [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-01-26].
15:16:06 <Zakim> +cathy
15:16:08 <jmorris> s/updated/a heartbeat of/
15:16:29 <jmorris> TOPIC: Contacts API
15:16:41 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:16:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see AnssiK, hta, lgombos, fjh, +1.806.782.aaaa (muted), ??P9, Suresh, dom, darobin, jmorris, Soonho_Lee, bryan_sullivan?, manyoung?, cathy
15:16:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see cathy, bryan_sullivan, Dzung_Tran, arun_prasath, jmorris, ktaklee, Suresh, hta, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, soonho, cmarc, fjh, manyoung, richt, ilkka, ingmar,
15:16:47 <Zakim> ... wmaslowski, shepazu, lgombos, trackbot, dom
15:16:48 <jmorris> darobin:  anything to report on call?
15:17:22 <jmorris> fjh: we should do Anssi's suggestions on [??] 3 and 4
15:17:58 <jmorris> Suresh:  trying to understand what we take out of discussion
15:18:05 <jmorris> .. not seen anything from Richard
15:18:31 <jmorris> .. summarize what I have been saying on list
15:18:44 <jmorris> .. discussion about writeback ? API
15:18:48 <jmorris> .. two ways to do it
15:19:01 <jmorris> .. download and save option - no objection to it
15:19:13 <jmorris> .. it is not the best solution - a midlevel solution
15:19:16 <fjh> s/to do it/to do it, two ways, download and save, also direct API
15:19:24 <AnssiK> latest update to Contacts API was made on Fri Jan 14: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2009/dap/contacts/Overview.html
15:19:39 <jmorris> .. latest proposal from Richard is to take up contactWriter
15:19:53 <jmorris> .. need to continue work on Writer API
15:20:24 <dom> (I think we should move section 8 "adding and updating contacts" as an informative appendix, and move ahead with an update to the contacts api)
15:20:31 <jmorris> .. I do not  have problem with download and save, but it is not the only option
15:20:59 <dom> (I think the Abstract shouldn't go into that level of details anyway)
15:21:02 <fjh> anssi re references, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0059.html
15:21:06 <jmorris> .. state that this is an alternate option to save back into address book
15:21:18 <jmorris> fjh: do we need a volunteer on this?
15:21:32 <jmorris> Suresh: Richard is editor
15:21:51 <jmorris> .. he prefers a direct API
15:22:13 <jmorris> fjh: we are at a standstill on list on this
15:22:29 <jmorris> .. wondering about writer, and how it will be done
15:22:52 <jmorris> Suresh:  the write option came back into draft
15:22:59 <dom> q+ to suggest edits
15:23:21 <jmorris> .. I would make writer API normative and include this option as an additional option
15:23:37 <jmorris> .. we could include download and save in a writer API
15:23:39 <dom> q?
15:23:59 <jmorris> darobin:  steps forward?
15:24:24 <jmorris> .. I wonder if softening the language in the abstract might help?
15:24:37 <fjh> s/suggestions on [??] 3 and 4/suggestion on referencing vcard3 and noting vcard4
15:24:38 <jmorris> .. rather than saying "normative guideline" soften it
15:24:56 <darobin> ack dom
15:24:56 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to suggest edits
15:24:56 <fjh> ack dom
15:25:01 <jmorris> dom:  will propose a sentence
15:25:33 <fjh> s/sentence/sentence for abstract to revise phrase about negating the need
15:25:41 <darobin> +1
15:25:49 <jmorris> .. think that appendix is best way to present it
15:26:00 <jmorris> .. I will make the changes
15:26:18 <Suresh> +1
15:26:19 <fjh> s/it/writer
15:26:22 <fjh> +1
15:27:03 <jmorris> proposed ACTION on dom TO ??
15:27:04 <darobin> ACTION: Dom to edit the contacts to address concerns with the way writing is described
15:27:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-328 - Edit the contacts to address concerns with the way writing is described [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2011-01-26].
15:27:31 <jmorris> brian_sullivan: current draft does not contain programatic saving
15:27:45 <jmorris> .. it can do a "save as" after which the user can import
15:27:48 <fjh> s/described/described, moving writing to appendix and updating abstract
15:27:57 <jmorris> .. it might directly trigger import
15:28:15 <jmorris> .. no devices on market would allow this approach
15:28:32 <jmorris> .. thinks programatic approach is still needed
15:28:41 <jmorris> .. okay with appendix approach, but not real solution
15:29:14 <fjh> s/to appendix/to informative appendix/
15:29:24 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:29:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/19-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:29:54 <jmorris> darobin:  you might not need a file system
15:30:00 <fjh> s/how do I tell zakim that hta = harald?//
15:30:09 <fjh> s/thanks!//
15:30:20 <jmorris> .. there is a media type attached to content
15:30:29 <fjh> s/scribe is jmorris//
15:30:45 <jmorris> .. browser might prompt you to download or open in application
15:31:18 <jmorris> Suresh: this may not work across 100%
15:31:33 <jmorris> ,, but still not as clean as programatic API
15:31:34 <fjh> s/or last call/or last call, assuming update/
15:31:40 <jmorris> s/,,/../
15:31:42 <fjh> s/oops,//
15:32:45 <fjh> s/described [recorded/described , moving writing to informative appendix and updating abstract  [recorded/
15:32:46 <dom> I've brought the proposed changes in ACTION-328 to http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/
15:33:00 <jmorris> darobin:  this functionality exists already
15:33:08 <dom> ACTION-328: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2009/dap/contacts/Overview.html.diff?r1=1.104&r2=1.108&f=h
15:33:08 <trackbot> ACTION-328 Edit the contacts to address concerns with the way writing is described notes added
15:33:23 <jmorris> bryan_sullivan: we don't want user to have to go through extra hoops
15:33:31 <jmorris> .. to get data into contacts application
15:33:52 <jmorris> darobin: there is text that allows this in the document
15:33:57 <jmorris> .. in section 8
15:34:10 <darobin> ISSUE-86?
15:34:10 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- Privacy issue about sharing other users contact information from own address book -- open
15:34:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/86
15:34:16 <jmorris> .. I propose we go ahead with dom's edits
15:34:38 <fjh> for ISSUE-86, I suggest following sentence be added as new paragraph at end of section 3.1:
15:34:39 <fjh> "Note that even if a user gives permission to share their contact information this can have privacy implications for those parties whose contacts are shared, as they may not wish such sharing to occur. This should be considered by web services when requesting and using such information."
15:35:04 <AnssiK> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/timers.html#dom-navigator-registercontenthandler
15:36:33 <jmorris> Suresh and anssi discussing vcard support
15:36:48 <AnssiK> http://microformats.org/wiki/vcard-implementations
15:36:52 <jmorris> Suresh:  no sure which platforms support which version of vcard
15:37:20 <jmorris> darobin:  if everyone supports vcard?
15:37:52 <jmorris> darobin: it is hard to implement
15:38:07 <dom> +1 on "supported contact formats" to be impossible (or least very difficult) to support
15:38:16 <AnssiK> Suresh: did you mean you need a get conterpart for navigator.registerContentHandler()?
15:38:21 <jmorris> .. this requires user agent to know what applications are installed - this is very hard to support
15:38:44 <jmorris> Suresh: though API, method to query underlying formats
15:38:46 <dom> q+ to say this relates to Application Launcher discussions, suggest moving to list
15:38:55 <jmorris> .. not application that is registered for it
15:38:58 <darobin> +1 to dom
15:39:05 <fjh> I think the crux of this argument from Suresh is that a programmatic API can be format agnostic thus obviating concern about which formats are supported
15:39:29 <fjh> ack dom
15:39:29 <Zakim> dom, you wanted to say this relates to Application Launcher discussions, suggest moving to list
15:39:40 <dom> (I think the convenience method could be tackled by a Javascript library)
15:40:09 <AnssiK> +1 to dom, I sent some pointers to the list regarding this one
15:40:17 <darobin> (yes, and better than a browser ever could do it)
15:40:51 <jmorris> AnssiK: trying to determine if Suresh wants a get
15:41:28 <jmorris> dom: done edits to contacts, and moving to appendix
15:41:40 <fjh> q+
15:41:47 <darobin> +1 to dom
15:41:55 <jmorris> .. more generally, if anyone wants to propose specific prohibitions, better on mailing list
15:41:57 <Zakim> -dom
15:42:21 <darobin> ISSUE-86?
15:42:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- Privacy issue about sharing other users contact information from own address book -- open
15:42:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/86
15:42:45 <darobin> "Note that even if a user gives permission to share their contact information this can have privacy implications for those parties whose contacts are shared, as they may not wish such sharing to occur. This should be considered by web services when requesting and using such information."
15:42:50 <Zakim> +dom
15:42:51 <jmorris> fjh: put in list:
15:42:58 <jmorris> "Note that even if a user gives permission to share their contact information this can have privacy implications for those parties whose contacts are shared, as they may not wish such sharing to occur. This should be considered by web services when requesting and using such information."
15:43:51 <AnssiK> s/Suresh:/Suresh,/
15:43:51 <fjh> put "serious" in front of "privacy implications"
15:44:19 <jmorris> jmorris: strengthen language
15:44:42 <jmorris> fjh: can't prohibit it and best is to warn about it
15:45:12 <jmorris> darobin: no need for resolution
15:45:20 <darobin> close ISSUE-86
15:45:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 Privacy issue about sharing other users contact information from own address book closed
15:45:22 <dom> ISSUE-86: we added some informative text in that regard to the document
15:45:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 Privacy issue about sharing other users contact information from own address book notes added
15:45:48 <darobin> ISSUE-99?
15:45:48 <trackbot> ISSUE-99 -- Integration of Contacts API in the DOM (e.g. through <input type=contacts>) -- open
15:45:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/99
15:46:12 <jmorris> darobin:  ISSUE-99 may not be solved now
15:46:19 <jmorris> .. perhaps leave it open
15:46:27 <jmorris> fjh: this is a new feature
15:46:33 <darobin> postpone ISSUE-99
15:46:34 <jmorris> dom: mark it as postponed
15:47:00 <dom> q+
15:47:03 <jmorris> RESOLUTION: postpone ISSUE-99
15:47:04 <fjh> q-
15:47:22 <fjh> ack dom
15:47:24 <jmorris> dom: another issue - remark about time zone
15:47:29 <jmorris> .. offset to GMT
15:47:38 <dom> "The value contains the time zone of this Contact as an offset from UTC.
15:47:38 <dom> The value must be specified as a positive or negative difference from the UTC in units of hours and minutes (i.e. +hh:mm). Example, by specifying +05:30 indicates the Contact is associated with a current time zone of GMT+05:30. "
15:47:55 <dom> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/#widl-Contact-timezone
15:48:03 <jmorris> darobin:  we discussed a solution?
15:48:11 <jmorris> dom: did not converge on solution
15:48:24 <jmorris> .. no one proposed concrete solution
15:48:28 <Suresh> Dom, i looked at your updates to Contacts API quickly - in the appendix (non-normative section) we are still using normative language like SHOULD, and not sure if this right. Perhaps lower casing it is better
15:48:36 <jmorris> darobin: we should have an ISSUE about this
15:48:53 <jmorris> .. presumably this is a mapping from vcard?
15:48:56 <dom> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Dec/0020.html Issue about timezone encoding in Contacts API
15:49:14 <jmorris> Suresh: not sure this is a vcard mapping
15:49:24 <hta> hm. if timezone is represented internally as a real timezone, and exposed here as a fixed UTC offset, reading it and storing it back will lose info.
15:49:35 <jmorris> darobin: vcard says this an offset from UTC
15:49:52 <jmorris> .. not sure we can fix it if it is wrong in vcard
15:50:27 <dom> -> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2426#section-2.4.4 UTC-OFFSET field in vCard
15:51:02 <jmorris> dom: perhaps we should rename "timezone" to "UTC offset"
15:51:11 <jmorris> .. to be consistent with vcard
15:51:44 <jmorris> darobin:  Any objections to renaming this?
15:51:56 <darobin> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: rename the timezone field to utcOffset to match vCard better
15:52:00 <hta> section 3.4.1 of RFC 2426 has a timezone.
15:52:05 <hta> (TZ)
15:52:17 <Zakim> -hta
15:52:23 <hta> sorry, pushed the wrong button.
15:52:42 <jmorris> fjh: harold, what is question?
15:52:53 <Zakim> +hta
15:53:19 <jmorris> hta: RFC has two fields
15:53:36 <jmorris> .. but one field undefined
15:54:44 <jmorris> Discussion of whether utcOffset would be stored someone?
15:54:58 <jmorris> fjh: sounds like we are not ready to go to last call
15:55:08 <jmorris> .. if we are fixing this on the fly
15:55:24 <jmorris> Suresh:  ID is read only
15:55:35 <jmorris> darobin: open issue and discuss on list
15:55:46 <jmorris> .. investigate having two fields:
15:55:55 <jmorris> .. utcOffset and TZ
15:56:03 <jmorris> .. will open issue
15:56:28 <darobin> ISSUE: Does having a timezone field make sense, should it be utfOffset or utcOffset and tz to better match vCard
15:56:28 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-106 - Does having a timezone field make sense, should it be utfOffset or utcOffset and tz to better match vCard ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/106/edit .
15:56:47 <jmorris> s/TZ/tz/
15:57:25 <jmorris> darobin:  we cannot move ahead with contacts but making progress
15:57:27 <AnssiK> vCard 4.0 draft proposes some changes to TZ, e.g. TZ property now has text / uri value: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-vcarddav-vcardrev
15:57:37 <jmorris> .. solve ISSUE-106 and them move to last call
15:57:49 <jmorris> TOPIC: HTML+Speech Feedback
15:57:51 <darobin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0057.html -> HTML+Speech feedback
15:58:22 <jmorris> darobin:  Context - a coordination call last friday with hypertext WGs
15:58:42 <fjh> s/WGs/WG/
15:58:42 <jmorris> .. there is interest in interacting with audio streams
15:59:01 <jmorris> .. they want to know where we are going with media caption API
15:59:13 <jmorris> .. how this relates to device functionality
15:59:20 <jmorris> .. not sure how to tackle this e-mail
15:59:33 <jmorris> .. perhaps we need an ACTION to respond to this e-mail
16:00:16 <jmorris> .. e-mail is way to start conversation with group
16:00:35 <dom> ACTION-300?
16:00:35 <trackbot> ACTION-300 -- Claes Nilsson to start working on use cases and requirements for video/audio conference à la <device> element -- due 2010-11-12 -- OPEN
16:00:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/300
16:00:52 <jmorris> dom: does ACTION-300 relate?
16:01:05 <jmorris> darobin: do we ask Claes to do this?
16:01:20 <jmorris> dom: chairs should have own action for coordination
16:01:32 <fjh> ACTION-300: may relate to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0057.html HTML+Speech feedback as well
16:01:32 <trackbot> ACTION-300 Start working on use cases and requirements for video/audio conference à la <device> element notes added
16:01:33 <jmorris> fjh: will add note to 300
16:01:35 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to maintain coordination with HTML+Speech on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0057.html; include Claes in the discussion
16:01:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-329 - Maintain coordination with HTML+Speech on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0057.html; include Claes in the discussion [on Robin Berjon - due 2011-01-26].
16:01:59 <jmorris> darobin: do you know when real time web WG will start?
16:02:13 <jmorris> dom: not sure it will, but if it does, early march
16:02:37 <jmorris> TOPIC: sysinfo
16:02:53 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/mid/AANLkTimokqOO_54OTij4ysdO6Dh-JmBJWLgQjYmnsZKH@mail.gmail.com -> Bryan's message
16:02:55 <jmorris> bryan_sullivan: I was catching up on sysinfo
16:03:09 <jmorris> .. 2 or 3 e-mails with extensive comments
16:03:23 <jmorris> .. I made a stab at issues, but some I don't know what to do on
16:03:36 <jmorris> .. issues have not come to head on list
16:03:50 <hta> have to drop off now, thanks for letting me listen in. leaving chat open.
16:03:53 <Zakim> -hta
16:03:58 <dom> Note that we're thinking of removing Network from sysinfo, per ACTION-294
16:04:20 <jmorris> .. I sent long e-mail to list 
16:04:27 <jmorris> .. I can break into separate threads
16:04:53 <jmorris> .. working on easy things first, and break complicated issues into separate discussions
16:05:02 <fjh> ISSUE-102?
16:05:02 <trackbot> ISSUE-102 -- Sysinfo asynchronous calls needs to be expressed in terms of events loop -- open
16:05:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/102
16:05:36 <fjh> ISSUE-102: plan to handle with core device specification
16:05:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-102 Sysinfo asynchronous calls needs to be expressed in terms of events loop notes added
16:05:45 <dom> [see also how COntacts API refers to this http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/#terminology ]
16:05:47 <jmorris> .. on power issues, did not see resolution 
16:05:52 <jmorris> .. on list
16:05:53 <fjh> ISSUE-102 closed
16:05:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-102 Sysinfo asynchronous calls needs to be expressed in terms of events loop closed
16:06:08 <jmorris> .. I will respond on power e-mail
16:06:09 <fjh> s/COntacts/Contacts/
16:06:22 <fjh> ISSUE-64?
16:06:22 <trackbot> ISSUE-64 -- "Generic" sensors may permit discovering sensitive information -- open
16:06:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/64
16:06:38 <jmorris> fjh: we may need to do more on ISSUE-64
16:08:12 <Zakim> - +1.806.782.aaaa
16:09:25 <Zakim> -Soonho_Lee
16:09:31 <jmorris> jmorris: will look at sysinfo privacy language
16:09:37 <fjh> action: jmorris to review SysInfo privacy considerations section, and ISSUE-64 on "generic" 
16:09:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-330 - Review SysInfo privacy considerations section, and ISSUE-64 on "generic"  [on John Morris - due 2011-01-26].
16:10:08 <dom> (I think the goal of "generic sensors" is extensibility)
16:10:57 <dom> "Generic sensors, e.g., discovery of nearby wireless networks, MAC addresses of access points, etc may permit localizing the device (and its user). Access control policies for such sensors need to be aligned with access to the more sensitive information that can be inferred."
16:10:58 <jmorris> jmorris:  I will look at spec
16:11:07 <fjh> action: fjh to review ISSUE-64
16:11:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-331 - Review ISSUE-64 [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2011-01-26].
16:12:21 <jmorris> TOPIC: Privacy issue review and next steps
16:12:26 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Jan/0067.html
16:13:15 <fjh> ISSUE-34?
16:13:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Protecting data versus protecting apis -- open
16:13:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/34
16:13:47 <jmorris> fjh:  ISSUE-34 - both are concerns - both protecting API and data
16:13:57 <dom> I don't think this is an issue; i.e. it is not a question one can give an answer
16:15:09 <jmorris> dom: current issue is not really phrased in term of a question to be resolved
16:15:44 <jmorris> fjh: in issue title, "versus" is wrong word
16:16:00 <jmorris> .. want to see what action we can take to address the concern
16:16:15 <jmorris> .. do we need to mention access control, and if so where?
16:16:31 <jmorris> .. can we publish ruleset proposal as draft
16:16:52 <jmorris> .. should we get broader feedback on issue
16:17:20 <Suresh> it might be a good idea to reference the permissions and access control drafts from the API specs?
16:17:39 <jmorris> dom: question on scope
16:17:50 <jmorris> fjh: concerned that we are pushing issue aside
16:17:59 <jmorris> .. perhaps take offline
16:18:01 <fjh> s/issue/privacy issue/
16:18:19 <jmorris> leaving ISSUE-34 open for now
16:18:33 <jmorris> Suresh: have we considered referencing documents from API specs?
16:18:46 <jmorris> .. we don't reference our own documents
16:20:09 <jmorris> fjh: [discussing permissions] 
16:20:18 <jmorris> .. how does this relate to permission, 
16:21:04 <dom> Dom: I think the Permissions document is supposed to reference APIs, not the other way around
16:21:17 <fjh> suresh asks if permissions doc should be referenced from API specs
16:21:29 <dom> Dom: the Permission draft would be referenced from a policy framework document, or from the Permissions APIs (for which we don't have an active editor atm)
16:21:31 <fjh> frederick suggests that this would make sense if they are integrated in a solution
16:22:04 <fjh> dom reminds us that permissions could be used from either a policy framework, or from a checkPermissions draft that needs to be written
16:22:52 <dom> ACTION-293?
16:22:52 <trackbot> ACTION-293 -- Robin Berjon to invite John Gregg to edit Feature Permissions API document in DAP -- due 2010-11-11 -- OPEN
16:22:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/293
16:23:04 <Zakim> -dom
16:23:29 <jmorris> fjh: need to figure out how permissions document fits into whole structure
16:24:22 <Zakim> +dom
16:24:40 <lgombos> fjh: Feature Permissions API
16:24:45 <jmorris> Suresh: we do talk about permissions in API documents
16:25:12 <Zakim> -manyoung?
16:25:32 <jmorris> lgombos: notification spec used to have this in it, but then broken up
16:25:50 <jmorris> fjh: do you need help on getting draft pulled together
16:26:04 <jmorris> .. need to have on homepage
16:26:10 <dom> ACTION: lazlo to provide an editors draft of permissions API
16:26:10 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - lazlo
16:26:18 <jmorris> .. dom may be right, but we need to understand issue
16:26:19 <dom> ACTION: laszlo to provide an editors draft of permissions API
16:26:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-332 - Provide an editors draft of permissions API [on Laszlo Gombos - due 2011-01-26].
16:26:41 <fjh> ISSUE-78?
16:26:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-78 -- Capture has a minimisation problem with EXIF data (e.g. it could be Geotagged) -- open
16:26:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/78
16:26:51 <jmorris> fjh: ISSUE-78 concern about exit data
16:26:58 <manyoung> manyoung has left #dap
16:27:06 <fjh> propose the HTML Media Capture have a note added similar to that in Media Capture
16:27:09 <jmorris> .. proposed to copy note over to HTML media capture
16:27:28 <jmorris> .. who is editing HTML media capture?
16:28:07 <dom> both documents have a note on EXIF and minimization
16:28:24 <fjh> media capture api, http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/Overview-API.html 2
16:28:24 <jmorris> fjh: media capture API has language in section 2
16:28:40 <jmorris> .. note on EXIF date
16:28:45 <jmorris> s/date/data/
16:28:46 <dom> "implementors should take care of additional leakage of privacy-sensitive data from captured media. For instance, embedding the user’s location in a captured media metadata (e.g. EXIF) might transmit more private data than the user might be expecting."
16:29:10 <fjh> HTML media capture, http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/#security, parenthetical in section 3
16:29:15 <jmorris> .. but in HTML Media Capture does not have similar language in section 3
16:29:32 <jmorris> .. it does not have the same language 
16:29:48 <jmorris> .. for consistency, we should handle with same language
16:29:57 <jmorris> .. Media Capture language is better
16:30:09 <fjh> suggest note in media capture to html media capture
16:31:13 <jmorris> fjh: proposing to handle same issue the same in both documents
16:31:44 <fjh> ISSUE-86?
16:31:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-86 -- Privacy issue about sharing other users contact information from own address book -- closed
16:31:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/86
16:31:53 <fjh> ISSUE-87?
16:31:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-87 -- Degree of ruleset transmission with API calls, how often, which -- open
16:31:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/87
16:32:20 <jmorris> fjh: we need to figure this out sometime, how seriously we address privacy
16:32:28 <fjh> ISSUE-88?
16:32:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-88 -- User interaction for ruleset confirmation when multiple APIs are used to provide functionality, usability etc -- open
16:32:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/88
16:32:49 <jmorris> Suresh: we have some text in Contacts API
16:33:16 <jmorris> fjh: yes, ISSUE-86 is resolved
16:33:31 <jmorris> bryan_sullivan: we will have further contributions on this soon
16:33:43 <fjh> s/this/privacy
16:33:45 <jmorris> .. based on WAC effort based on POWDER
16:33:59 <jmorris> .. question is how to do this in websites
16:34:19 <jmorris> .. bringing this to table will help move discussion
16:34:54 <jmorris> .. hope to do this in February
16:35:06 <jmorris> .. 2.0 version of WAC will come out soon
16:36:18 <jmorris> fjh: issue-88 suggestion is to do ruleset interaction
16:36:56 <jmorris> fjh: we will hold this set of issues for later discussion
16:37:04 <fjh> Topic: Adjourn
16:37:05 <Zakim> -dom
16:37:07 <Zakim> -bryan_sullivan?
16:37:07 <Zakim> -lgombos
16:37:10 <Zakim> -fjh
16:37:12 <Zakim> -AnssiK
16:37:18 <Zakim> -cathy
16:37:37 <Zakim> -??P9
16:37:43 <Zakim> -jmorris
16:38:05 <Zakim> -Suresh
16:38:10 <Zakim> -darobin
16:38:12 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
16:38:13 <Zakim> Attendees were AnssiK, Soonho_Lee, lgombos, fjh, +1.806.782.aaaa, +1.972.373.aabb, hta, dom, Suresh, darobin, +1.301.581.aacc, jmorris, +1.425.214.aaee, bryan_sullivan?, manyoung?,
16:38:16 <Zakim> ... cathy
16:44:02 <arun_prasath> arun_prasath has left #dap
17:02:10 <fjh> ISUE-34?
17:02:15 <fjh> ISSUE-34?
17:02:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Protecting data versus protecting apis -- open
17:02:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/34
17:04:18 <fjh> ISSUE-78?
17:04:19 <trackbot> ISSUE-78 -- Capture has a minimisation problem with EXIF data (e.g. it could be Geotagged) -- open
17:04:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/78
17:26:39 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:26:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/19-dap-minutes.html fjh
17:57:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dap