14:57:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcg
14:57:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/14-hcg-irc
14:57:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
14:57:58 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcg
14:58:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
14:58:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_CG()10:00AM already started
14:58:01 <trackbot> Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
14:58:01 <trackbot> Date: 14 January 2011
14:58:08 <darobin> darobin has joined #hcg
14:58:13 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
14:58:44 <Zakim> +TomB
14:59:01 <glazou> Zakim, code?
14:59:01 <Zakim> the conference code is 4824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), glazou
14:59:05 <ChrisL> Chair: Chris
14:59:34 <ChrisL> Regrets: Cameron McCormack, Erik Dahlström, Art Barstow, Charles McCathieNevile, Frederick Hirsch,  Lofton Henderson
14:59:40 <janina> janina has joined #hcg
14:59:57 <janina> zakim, call janina
14:59:57 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
14:59:58 <Zakim> +Janina
15:00:13 <Zakim> +ChrisL
15:00:21 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
15:00:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Bodell, TomB, Janina, ChrisL
15:00:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, mbodell, ChrisL, Steven, kaz, ArtB, glazou, plinss, shepazu, ed, trackbot
15:00:25 <glazou> "this passcode is not valid"
15:00:28 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
15:00:46 <Zakim> +glazou
15:00:49 <glazou> ah finally
15:00:52 <ChrisL> glazou, i used 4824 and it worked
15:00:54 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
15:00:54 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
15:00:55 <Zakim> +Steven
15:01:07 <Zakim> +Bert
15:01:20 <Bert> Bert has joined #hcg
15:01:26 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #hcg
15:01:37 <Zakim> -glazou
15:01:48 <Zakim> +??P10
15:02:03 <kaz> zakim, ??P10 is Kaz
15:02:03 <Zakim> +Kaz; got it
15:02:20 <ddahl1> ddahl1 has joined #hcg
15:02:50 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
15:03:06 <Zakim> +glazou
15:03:13 <glazou> ah that was the french bridge
15:03:18 <glazou> the US one is in better shape
15:03:32 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
15:03:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Bodell, TomB, Janina, ChrisL, Art_Barstow, Steven, Bert, Kaz, Debbie_Dahl, glazou
15:03:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see ddahl1, ddahl, Bert, janina, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, mbodell, ChrisL, Steven, kaz, ArtB, glazou, plinss, shepazu, ed, trackbot
15:03:40 <Zakim> +??P16
15:03:51 <darobin> Zakim, ??P16 is me
15:03:51 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
15:05:12 <glazou> good start for the new year darobin 
15:05:56 <ChrisL> zakim,pick a victim
15:05:56 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Debbie_Dahl
15:06:24 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
15:06:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Bodell, TomB, Janina, ChrisL, Art_Barstow, Steven, Bert, Kaz, Debbie_Dahl, glazou, darobin
15:06:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see ddahl1, ddahl, Bert, janina, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, mbodell, ChrisL, Steven, kaz, ArtB, glazou, plinss, shepazu, ed, trackbot
15:06:27 <ddahl1> scribe: ddahl
15:06:41 <ddahl1> chair: ChrisL
15:07:16 <ddahl1> topic: Audio on the Web
15:07:35 <ChrisL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2011JanMar/0005.html
15:08:25 <ddahl1> michaelB: in MMI, VoiceBrowser, and HTML SpeechXG. wants to capture audio in a way that user can interact with it. some proposals have capture and then upload, but that doesn't satisfy our use case.
15:08:39 <ddahl1> chris: other requirements for speech?
15:08:58 <Zakim> +Shepazu
15:09:16 <Zakim> -Bert
15:09:20 <ddahl1> michaelB: yes, endpointing, echo cancellation, playback for speech synthesis, and tying playback to barge-in
15:09:22 <glazou> Bert: the french bridge...
15:09:51 <ddahl1> the French bridge is hosed, call in on the US one if you can
15:10:07 <Zakim> +Bert
15:10:18 <ChrisL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2011JanMar/0003.html
15:10:27 <ddahl1> janina: our requirements came from making HTML 5 video and audio accessible
15:11:40 <ddahl1> ...video description uses secondary audio channel, used in broadcasting, different on the web, also looking for a way to play two binary resources, not necessarily the same length
15:12:10 <ddahl1> ...another one is the need to control volume and panning separately, or direct them to a secondary audio device
15:13:13 <ddahl1> chrisL: if something's being broadcast to a group, then different people might have different needs
15:13:20 <ddahl1> doug: how would that work?
15:13:55 <ddahl1> ...are you accessing different devices, how would you discover different devices?
15:14:41 <ddahl1> janina: I don't know if the browser knows, but the OS knows. I know it's discoverable on Linux, mapping the OS resources to the browser
15:15:09 <ddahl1> chrisL: a kind of labeling so that different things go to different devices
15:15:38 <ddahl1> ...also synchronization of multiple audio streams, SMIL does this, but not HTML5 audio
15:16:21 <ddahl1> janina: HTML5 seems to assume that files have the same timespan, but that might not be true for video description or for different languages
15:16:38 <ddahl1> chrisL: especially problematic for longer files
15:17:03 <ddahl1> janina: SMIL seems to work well, is used in Daisy Consortium
15:17:51 <ddahl1> ...we could take as much of SMIL for the use cases we need and leave the rest behind
15:18:10 <ddahl1> chrisL: similar to what we did with SVG
15:20:27 <ddahl1> doug: Audio XG -- audio api is an api for reading and writing to the live audio stream, one implementation that will be in Firefox, we just give access to the raw bits, a more sophisticated implementation in WebKit, also has a higher-level ability to manipulate audio in the browser
15:21:09 <ddahl1> ...we will make a WG, have been mostly talking about WebKit approach, should things be done in the browser or with script libraries
15:21:21 <ddahl1> chrisL: is script fast enough?
15:22:11 <ChrisL> s/enough/enough for helper methods/
15:22:14 <ddahl1> doug: I don't know, would be better to use helper methods in mobile devices because of processing constraints
15:25:15 <Zakim> -TomB
15:25:28 <ChrisL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2011JanMar/0004.html
15:25:51 <kaz> Present: Michael_Bodell, Dan_Burnett, Janina, ChrisL, Art_Barstow, Steven, Kaz, Debbie_Dahl, glazou, darobin, Shepazu, Bert
15:26:29 <ChrisL> ddahl: Our primary use case involving audio is input and output of speech, mainly for interaction
15:26:51 <ChrisL> ... but also recording, like fro voicemail. so need to capture speech and to stream it
15:26:53 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:26:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/14-hcg-minutes.html ArtB
15:27:01 <ChrisL> ... not just batch capture
15:27:19 <kaz> i/ddahl: Our/scribenick: ChrisL/
15:27:41 <ChrisL> ... support arbitrary processing - speech
15:27:41 <ChrisL> recognition, speech understanding, speech-to-speech translation, emotion
15:27:41 <ChrisL> detection, speaker verification, language/gender/age identification, medical
15:27:41 <ChrisL> diagnosis
15:27:59 <ChrisL> ddahl: will not support arbitrary translation
15:28:11 <ChrisL> ... need to contreol format and sampling rate
15:28:34 <ChrisL> ... capture speech on mobile or desktop or over telephone (last is a VB requirement)
15:28:52 <ChrisL> ddahl: Able to combine semantics of speech with other inputs, like circling an area
15:28:52 <ChrisL> and saying "Italian restaurants near here"
15:29:09 <ChrisL> ddahl: control volume of output, pause and resume
15:29:23 <ChrisL> ... local or distributed cloud-based processing
15:29:45 <ChrisL> ... audio file output, tts, positioningof inputsand outputs
15:30:12 <ChrisL> ddahl: multiple microphones? like a big meeting room and record the whole meeting
15:30:21 <ChrisL> ChrisL: multichannel or mixing?
15:30:25 <ChrisL> ddahl: both
15:31:04 <ChrisL> ddahl: no use cases around capturing non-speech audio, for mm, but importtant for others
15:31:37 <ChrisL> ChrisL: ability to determine if an audio input is speech or non-speech
15:33:06 <shepazu> q+ to mention logistics of microphone access spec
15:33:09 <kaz> scribenick: ddahl
15:33:15 <ddahl1> michaelB: also have concerns around security and privacy
15:33:36 <kaz> i/michaelB:/scribenick: ddahl1/
15:33:38 <ddahl1> ...a microphone is like a keyboard, what are user expectations and behavior
15:33:49 <ddahl1> ...need to mix with functional requirements
15:34:23 <ddahl1> chrisL: you can imagine some way of notifying the user that speech is being recorded.
15:34:49 <ddahl1> janina: in the news today was a story about spyware on smartphones
15:35:10 <ddahl1> michael: also need to be able to notify user in non-visual environments
15:35:35 <ddahl1> doug: maybe a vibratory signal could signal when microphone is on
15:35:57 <ddahl1> ...nothing about privacy in the charter, but the spec will mention privacy
15:37:26 <ddahl1> ...charter basically has microphone access. lots of discussion about access to microphone. DAP WG is chartered to do it but hasn't done it. Audio WG will work on it if necessary
15:37:41 <darobin> DAP is doing something about this
15:37:46 <darobin> RTC will help as well
15:37:52 <darobin> more than happy to work with Audio
15:37:55 <ddahl1> chrisL: comments from robin on DAP?
15:38:06 <darobin> and in fact we've done it
15:38:11 <darobin> just not at the level required yet
15:38:22 <darobin> but certainly can push further
15:39:10 <darobin> very basic access: http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/
15:39:19 <darobin> more advanced: http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/camera/Overview-API.html
15:39:31 <darobin> and we want to do more advanced still, but will need some security model for it
15:39:50 <darobin> RTC == real time Web
15:40:03 <darobin> it's not called camera, URIs are opaque dammit :)
15:40:12 <ddahl1> chrisL: "camera" spec sounds like it should be visual
15:40:14 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/TR/media-capture-api/
15:40:26 <darobin> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-media-capture/
15:40:35 <darobin> (same links, for people who read URIs)
15:40:41 <darobin> that is correct
15:40:44 <ddahl1> michaelB: doesn't cover the streaming case for audio
15:40:52 <darobin> we're working on that, but it's harder security wise
15:41:16 <darobin> we're also synching with HTML WG
15:41:42 <ddahl1> chrisL: separate specs, capture vs. streaming?
15:41:46 <darobin> yes, they build atop one another whenever possible
15:42:30 <ddahl1> michaelB: maybe could be separate, but could be the same spec. working on proposals in HTML-SpeechXG, reviewing proposals
15:42:41 <darobin> feeeeeeeeeeeedback
15:42:46 <darobin> we wantsssss feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedback
15:43:06 <darobin> I may not be able to speak today, but I can read :)
15:43:15 <ddahl1> chrisL: HTML-speech XG should send email to DAP 
15:43:16 <darobin> DAP: public-device-apis@w3.org
15:43:35 <ArtB> Web Audio API from Chris Rogers: http://chromium.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/audio/specification/specification.html
15:43:39 <Zakim> -Steven
15:43:46 <Zakim> -Janina
15:43:47 <Zakim> -darobin
15:43:47 <Zakim> -Kaz
15:43:49 <Zakim> -Michael_Bodell
15:43:49 <Zakim> -glazou
15:43:51 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
15:43:51 <Zakim> -ChrisL
15:43:52 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
15:43:58 <ddahl1> rrsagent, format minutes
15:43:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/14-hcg-minutes.html ddahl1
15:43:59 <Zakim> -Shepazu
15:44:02 <Zakim> -Bert
15:44:03 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has ended
15:44:04 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Bodell, TomB, Janina, ChrisL, Art_Barstow, glazou, Steven, Bert, Kaz, Debbie_Dahl, darobin, Shepazu
15:45:50 <ddahl1> rrsagent, make logs member
15:46:41 <darobin> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:46:43 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
15:47:04 <glazou> glazou has left #hcg
15:50:44 <darobin> RRSAgent, stop