IRC log of svg on 2011-01-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:01:02 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
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logging to
19:01:04 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:01:04 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
19:01:06 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:01:06 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM scheduled to start in 59 minutes
19:01:07 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:01:07 [trackbot]
Date: 13 January 2011
19:25:18 [ChrisL]
19:50:37 [anthony_work]
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19:58:37 [anthony]
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20:00:10 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has now started
20:00:17 [Zakim]
20:00:20 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P0 is me
20:00:20 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
20:01:25 [ChrisL]
ChrisL has joined #svg
20:01:33 [Zakim]
20:02:34 [Zakim]
20:04:12 [Zakim]
20:04:21 [ed]
Zakim, ?? is me
20:04:21 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
20:06:08 [Zakim]
20:06:27 [anthony]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
20:06:27 [Zakim]
+anthony; got it
20:09:42 [heycam]
20:09:56 [heycam]
Chair: Cameron
20:10:00 [anthony]
ScribeNick: Anthony
20:10:04 [anthony]
Scribe: Anthony
20:10:19 [anthony]
Topic: Telcom time
20:10:37 [anthony]
CL: It is not very convenient because it runs into the WOFF call
20:10:43 [anthony]
... it doesn't overlap
20:10:47 [anthony]
... and I could manage it
20:10:59 [anthony]
... no objection though
20:11:10 [anthony]
CM: It's fine for me as well
20:11:14 [anthony]
ED: It's no problem for me
20:11:32 [anthony]
AG: I'm ok with that
20:12:37 [anthony]
DS: That would be fine
20:12:55 [anthony]
CM: Replied to Pat's email but forgot to CC the list
20:13:29 [anthony]
CL: Wait it would overlap with first half hour of WOFF
20:14:08 [anthony]
CM: Might be bad for Anthony
20:14:21 [anthony]
AG: I can turn up 30mins earlier
20:15:07 [anthony]
CM: We'll tentatively set the time to be one day and a half hour earlier than it is currently
20:15:14 [anthony]
CL: What about Tav?
20:16:29 [anthony]
DS: Should be ok
20:17:01 [anthony]
CM: Someone should mail the list
20:17:19 [anthony]
DS: And we are still be having the bi-weekly FX call
20:17:46 [anthony]
CM: I'll email the list
20:17:56 [anthony]
Topic: SVG 1.1 2nd Edition
20:18:18 [anthony]
CL: I noticed that there was an action that was not on the wiki
20:18:25 [anthony]
... it was about the media type registration
20:18:34 [anthony]
... I've now closed it
20:19:13 [heycam]
(this is the media type registration)
20:20:22 [heycam]
20:20:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-2816 -- Anthony Grasso to look into ISSUE-2339 and report back -- due 2010-07-13 -- OPEN
20:20:22 [trackbot]
20:21:22 [anthony]
AG: Started looking into this
20:21:28 [heycam]
20:21:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-2811 -- Erik Dahlström to determine new wording for ISSUE-2334 (filter sub-regions) -- due 2010-07-13 -- OPEN
20:21:28 [trackbot]
20:21:34 [ed]
20:21:34 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2334 -- Last Call Comment: filter primitive subregion and feGaussianBlur, feTile and infinite filter input images -- raised
20:21:34 [trackbot]
20:21:37 [anthony]
ED: I did half of it
20:22:03 [anthony]
... Just before the call I checked in an updated version of the published directory
20:22:13 [anthony]
... the change I made was for the last half of the comment
20:22:25 [anthony]
... which was about defining what a tile was
20:22:33 [shepazu]
agenda+ Mapping Task Force
20:22:34 [anthony]
... the first half has an agreement from ROC
20:22:41 [anthony]
... and I need to come up with some wording for that
20:23:02 [heycam]
20:23:02 [trackbot]
ACTION-2911 -- Tavmjong Bah to finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding ISSUE-2338 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf -- due 2010-11-25 -- CLOSED
20:23:02 [trackbot]
20:23:11 [heycam]
20:23:11 [trackbot]
ACTION-2834 -- Doug Schepers to clarify section 16.5 Processing order for user interface events relating to problems in ISSUE-2364 -- due 2010-09-10 -- OPEN
20:23:11 [trackbot]
20:23:21 [anthony]
DS: I'm about half done with it
20:23:35 [anthony]
... I was struggling how to word that section
20:24:02 [anthony]
... I'm going to make a set of tests once I'm done with the wording
20:24:25 [anthony]
CM: Can you make the tests last, as we may not be adding more tests
20:24:40 [anthony]
DS: I don't expect them to be part of the released test suite
20:24:46 [anthony]
... just would like to make some tests
20:25:06 [heycam]
20:25:06 [trackbot]
ACTION-2917 -- Patrick Dengler to review Issue 2384 and decide if the change to the test and the text is reasonable -- due 2010-12-09 -- OPEN
20:25:06 [trackbot]
20:25:19 [anthony]
CM: Not sure what the status of that is
20:25:35 [anthony]
... I think last telcon we had we reminded him to have a look at the text
20:26:00 [anthony]
... I'm not sure if he has replied back if it is expectable or not
20:26:03 [heycam]
20:26:03 [trackbot]
ACTION-2910 -- Chris Lilley to cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1 2nd Edition -- due 2010-11-25 -- OPEN
20:26:03 [trackbot]
20:26:20 [anthony]
CL: So what I did was I checked in the changes appendix
20:26:27 [anthony]
... with all the content removed
20:26:38 [anthony]
... then I started checking all the individual chapters
20:26:44 [anthony]
... by doing diffs
20:26:55 [anthony]
... I've saved the text file with the diffs
20:27:03 [anthony]
... part way done
20:27:03 [ed]
20:27:04 [heycam]
20:27:04 [trackbot]
ACTION-2921 -- Chris Lilley to bring the 1.2 changes for bidi and text anchor back to the 1.1 spec -- due 2010-12-16 -- OPEN
20:27:04 [trackbot]
20:27:15 [anthony]
CL: Done that
20:27:19 [anthony]
... sent an email about it
20:27:40 [anthony]
... I ported across two sections
20:27:49 [anthony]
... and brought across two examples
20:28:02 [ed]
20:28:05 [anthony]
ED: Text chapter?
20:28:13 [anthony]
CL: Yes
20:28:24 [ed]
20:28:35 [anthony]
... both examples render in Opera
20:28:58 [ed] (borken link)
20:29:06 [anthony]
ED: The published version doesn't seem to find the SVG files
20:29:23 [anthony]
DS: How are we managing the publishing
20:29:39 [anthony]
CL: Being run every now and again
20:29:56 [anthony]
... I run it every now and again, but depends on the change
20:30:25 [anthony]
ED: Need to do a CVS add manually
20:30:51 [anthony]
... the link is broken probably because it wasn't added to publish
20:30:54 [heycam]
20:30:58 [anthony]
... this needs to be done manually
20:31:22 [heycam]
20:33:01 [ChrisL]
20:33:09 [anthony]
Topic: Disposition of Comments
20:33:27 [anthony]
CL: I updated it just recently
20:34:44 [anthony]
CM: Lets go through each unfinished one
20:35:13 [ed]
20:35:31 [anthony]
ED: Robert says he's ok with thisone
20:35:38 [anthony]
s/thisone/this one/
20:36:36 [anthony]
CL: The next one seems to be 2339
20:36:49 [anthony]
CM: That is Anthony's one we were talking about
20:38:32 [heycam]
20:38:48 [heycam]
20:38:55 [anthony]
CM: Action is pending review
20:39:10 [anthony]
... all the comments on the issues say it's done
20:39:32 [anthony]
CL: Ok, now sorted
20:41:52 [anthony]
CM: So in the comments in tracker has it noted if responses have been sent
20:42:04 [shepazu]
agenda+ pointer-events on root, inline and referenced
20:42:05 [anthony]
... I'm just wondering if we have done the action
20:42:12 [anthony]
... but not recorded it in the tool
20:42:58 [anthony]
CL: I think some of ones is because of say a typo and there is no point in replying back and saying thanks for fixing the typo
20:44:13 [heycam]
Zakim, take it!
20:44:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take it!', heycam
20:44:18 [ChrisL]
Topic: pointer-events on root, inline and referenced
20:44:34 [anthony]
Topic: pointer-events on root, inline and reference
20:44:35 [ChrisL]
zakim, move to next agendum
20:44:35 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Mapping Task Force" taken up [from shepazu]
20:44:40 [ChrisL]
zakim, move to next agendum
20:44:40 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, ChrisL
20:45:10 [anthony]
DS: If someone clicks on SVG and they click on the area outside of the circle
20:45:36 [anthony]
... what happens depending oh where the document lives
20:45:50 [anthony]
... so if it is standalone, or if it is part of html
20:46:10 [anthony]
... or reference the SVG in the html
20:46:24 [ChrisL]
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds
20:46:38 [anthony]
... the question is does SVG have a background?
20:46:50 [anthony]
... does it pass through the SVG to the underlaying document
20:47:20 [anthony]
CM: I can see how there would be a background there if you give it a background colour
20:47:35 [anthony]
DS: I was wondering if someone could remind me what the decision was
20:47:51 [anthony]
CM: Wondering if the pointer events on HTML come into play
20:48:04 [anthony]
ED: It was part of the discussion at the last F2F
20:49:37 [anthony]
DS: I guess the only answer we can have for the last call comment is it is undefined
20:49:50 [anthony]
20:49:50 [ed]
20:49:50 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2364 -- Last Call Comment: SVG 1.1 may be ambiguous about the root element acting as a proximal event target -- raised
20:49:50 [trackbot]
20:49:50 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2364 -- Last Call Comment: SVG 1.1 may be ambiguous about the root element acting as a proximal event target -- raised
20:49:53 [trackbot]
20:51:24 [anthony]
CM: If this was discussed at length was there any resolution in the minutes?
20:51:45 [anthony]
DS: I looked through the minutes and could not find a clear resolution
20:54:07 [shepazu]
20:54:26 [anthony]
DS: This is the original email
20:55:04 [anthony]
... I think what we will say for SVG 1.1 that it is undefined
20:55:29 [anthony]
... and say that it is a larger issue that we will address in SVG 2
20:55:58 [anthony]
CL: we don't want to add something in SVG 1.1 that will conflict with SVG 2
20:58:17 [anthony]
DS: What do people want me to say on this matter?
20:58:31 [anthony]
... I guess we are treating it as a last call comment
20:58:49 [anthony]
ED: Say that it will be dealt with in the integration specification
20:58:59 [anthony]
... I don't see how it is a pressing issue
20:59:14 [anthony]
CM: If the comment is dealing with the non-integration case, we can just leave it
21:00:07 [anthony]
RESOLUTION: We will define the pointer event testing behaviour for root elements in the Integration specification for SVG 2
21:00:28 [anthony]
ED: We will probably have to work with people in CSS on this issue as well
21:01:18 [anthony]
DS: Pointer events doesn't cover the case where you've tab-ed to it
21:01:27 [anthony]
CM: So things which are focusable
21:01:52 [anthony]
DS: Does pointer event effect things that gain focus?
21:02:02 [anthony]
CM: That would be something separate
21:03:10 [anthony]
Topic: Next Face-to-face
21:03:15 [heycam]
21:03:30 [anthony]
CM: There is the registration form for everyone to fill out
21:03:39 [anthony]
... you'll see in the form there I've put some extra notes there
21:03:48 [anthony]
... which we haven't had in some previous face-to-faces
21:04:05 [anthony]
... this is deadline for requesting agenda topics
21:04:14 [anthony]
... and to prepare materials
21:05:12 [anthony]
... so preparing material may be putting some information up on a wiki
21:06:32 [anthony]
... I'd like to see particular things to discuss
21:07:54 [anthony]
... For specification that have not been written up have ideas or proposals on the wiki
21:08:05 [anthony]
... would be good
21:08:59 [anthony]
... TC39 - ECMA script group have a process like this
21:11:32 [anthony]
... Two important dates for the face-to-face
21:11:44 [anthony]
... is three weeks before to have a list of the agenda items
21:11:55 [anthony]
... and then two weeks before is to have material up on the wiki
21:13:37 [anthony]
... So, have a think about the topics you'd like to discuss and if you are a person behind a specification then I'd expect you to write up the material for the page
21:14:21 [anthony]
Topic: SVG Mapping Taskforce
21:14:23 [shepazu]
mapping task force:
21:15:08 [anthony]
DS: This is a topic I spoke to Andreas about
21:15:23 [anthony]
... because we'd seen an interest in mapping build up again in SVG
21:15:35 [ChrisL]
21:15:45 [anthony]
... Chris and I approached Andreas about the idea of an SVG Mapping taskforce
21:16:02 [anthony]
... It would be a subgroup of this group
21:16:04 [ChrisL]
SVG Map consortium
21:16:14 [anthony]
... It would be finding use case and requirements
21:16:19 [anthony]
... and suggesting features for SVG 2
21:16:35 [anthony]
... I put together a sort of a wiki page and a charter
21:16:47 [anthony]
... it would not require advisory committee
21:16:59 [anthony]
CL: Since we are rechartering, we should put that in
21:17:10 [anthony]
... so we can easily make a taskforce
21:17:40 [anthony]
... I dropped in a link of supporters
21:17:59 [anthony]
DS: There are other potential companies
21:18:08 [anthony]
... that may be interested
21:18:14 [ChrisL]
21:18:26 [anthony]
... it could be applicable to other technologies
21:18:49 [anthony]
... I think there is a lot of potential interest
21:19:18 [anthony]
... It would probably be good for us to think about broader cases
21:19:40 [anthony]
... the question is do we want to start this taskforce?
21:21:09 [anthony]
CM: I think bringing mapping people together for this is a good idea
21:21:29 [anthony]
... I think a few years ago we considered putting mapping modules on Tiny but without the mapping people
21:21:33 [anthony]
... it's a bit difficult
21:21:59 [anthony]
... Having Andreas involved is a good idea
21:23:27 [anthony]
RESOLUTION: We will continue to explore the idea of a Mapping Taskforce
21:24:07 [ChrisL]
international cartographic association, comission on maps and the internet
21:27:10 [anthony]
Topic: Test suite
21:27:30 [anthony]
CM: I added results for Fire Fox nightly build
21:27:46 [anthony]
... So we have Microsoft, Opera, Inkscape and Fire Fox
21:27:52 [anthony]
CL: Who is doing Batik?
21:27:58 [anthony]
CM: I was going to start looking at those today
21:28:19 [anthony]
CL: I have been going through the ones of Abbra
21:28:37 [anthony]
ED: Do we have someone doing Chrome or Safari?
21:28:41 [anthony]
DS: I could do either
21:29:03 [anthony]
CL: Which is the best webkit based implementation?
21:29:24 [anthony]
CM: Going to be mostly the same, some differences in Java script engine
21:30:49 [anthony]
... In an email I listed a number of issues with tests
21:30:57 [anthony]
... there are a couple of changes that need to be made
21:31:19 [anthony]
... and there are a few where we are not going to change our implementation to pass the test
21:34:07 [anthony]
... or somethings we disagree with
21:34:35 [anthony]
... there is one test at least which doesn't have any implementations passing it at all
21:35:12 [anthony]
... before I started looking at Batik, I noted we had 80 tests that didn't pass
21:35:24 [anthony]
... just wondering what we do about them
21:35:47 [anthony]
CL: Until we have Batik and Safari it's hard to say
21:36:08 [anthony]
... we need the full test results before we figure out what to do
21:38:55 [Zakim]
21:43:53 [shepazu]
trackbot, end telcon
21:43:53 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
21:43:53 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been heycam, Shepazu, ChrisL, ed, anthony
21:43:54 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:43:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
21:43:55 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
21:43:55 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items