21:56:28 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:56:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/12-html-a11y-irc
21:56:34 zakim, this will be html-a11y
21:56:35 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, janina
21:56:48 JF has joined #html-a11y
21:57:07 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:57:07 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
21:57:19 JF waves
21:57:20 zakim, call janina
21:57:20 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:57:21 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM has now started
21:57:23 +Janina
21:58:18 +John_Foliot
21:58:26 Oh no, Silvia! Sorry to hear this!
21:58:44 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
21:58:44 Chair: John_Foliot
21:58:44 agenda: this
21:58:44 agenda+ Identify Scribe
21:58:44 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
21:58:45 agenda+ Continued Itemized Bugs Review -- See itemization below
21:58:47 agenda+ Synchronizing Multiple Binary Assets
21:58:49 agenda+ Media Queries on Track http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0145.html
21:58:51 agenda+ Poster Issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0054.html
21:58:53 agenda+ Media TextFormats Accessibility Comparison Summary Redux
21:58:55 agenda+ Other Business?
21:58:57 agenda+ be done
21:59:05 +Judy
21:59:08 scribe: janina
21:59:45 Sean has joined #html-a11y
21:59:48 gfreed has joined #html-a11y
22:00:27 Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:00:44 zakim, who's here?
22:00:44 On the phone I see Janina, John_Foliot, Judy
22:00:45 On IRC I see Judy, gfreed, Sean, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, silvia, janina, MichaelC, [tm], oedipus, MikeSmith, trackbot
22:00:46 zakim, take up item 1
22:00:46 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
22:00:48 + +1.425.822.aaaa
22:00:56 scribenic: janina
22:01:03 + +1.617.365.aabb
22:01:04 zakim, close item 1
22:01:05 agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
22:01:06 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:01:07 2. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina]
22:01:30 zakim, +1.617.365.aabb is Geoff_Freed
22:01:30 +Geoff_Freed; got it
22:01:59 zakim, +1.425.822.aaaa is Sean_Hayes
22:01:59 +Sean_Hayes; got it
22:02:18 zakim, next item
22:02:18 agendum 2. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
22:04:14 +Eric_Carlson
22:04:48 zakim, close action-8
22:04:48 I don't understand 'close action-8', janina
22:05:08 zakim, close ACTION-8
22:05:08 I don't understand 'close ACTION-8', janina
22:05:19 rrsagent, close action-8
22:05:19 I'm logging. I don't understand 'close action-8', janina. Try /msg RRSAgent help
22:05:40 Silvia, we're wondering if we can reassign action-8 to you?
22:06:00 do we have a link to action-8?
22:06:00 Silvia, are you able/willing to take on action item 88? Review Media Fragment URI 1.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-media-frags-20100624/
22:06:22 rrsagent, make log public
22:06:29 rrsagent, make minutes
22:06:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/12-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
22:07:19 ah! well, I am part of the team that wrote the Media Fragment URI 1.0 spec, so it would be kinda useless for me to review it
22:08:25 you'll notice I am one of the authors
22:09:32 OK, Silvia. That makes sense. We'll kick this action back to PF (where it came from).
22:09:59 Next, Bug 1195 -- Qualify success criteria
22:11:34 We'll follow up on this at the main TF call tomorrow.
22:11:39 zakim, next agenda
22:11:39 agendum 3. "Continued Itemized Bugs Review -- See itemization below" taken up [from janina]
22:12:09 Bug 8657 -- Eric?
22:12:18 Allow UA to reload fallback content ...
22:12:52 Q: Should a video start playing if additional "fallback" content not fully loaded?
22:12:57 We thought not last week.
22:13:34 EC: Sean is correct. External track considered "ready" even if not loading.
22:14:06 EC: So, what should the behavior be if caption track loads more lowly than main resource?
22:14:17 EC: Not sure that was the initial intent of this bug, though.
22:14:18 MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
22:14:52 SH: If text track is hidden, can still be considered "ready." Also concerning.
22:15:25 SH: Not sure "ready" should be allowed if something fails to load.
22:15:57 I think we are confusing the ready state of the media with the ready state of the caption track
22:16:12 there are two independent ready states
22:16:17 EC: There's "have metadata" to indicate when enough of a file is available to know what it is, and enough to render a single frame
22:16:35 SH: Need some kind of buffering mechanism
22:17:12 EC: There are two states beyond the single-frame, finally a state that goes to eof
22:17:34 EC: State can go up and down.
22:18:09 EC: Agreeing with Silvia, thought Sean asking about how this fits with main resource.
22:19:29 EC: We may be getting caption data, but not know ...
22:19:31 I assume if the main resource has an error state, there will be no attempt to load the text tracks
22:19:42 SH: But captions for an hour's movie is still pretty small data
22:19:51 if the main resource loads, then an attempt to load the text tracks will happen, too
22:20:18 this can succeed (i.e. LOADING or LOADED state) or fail (ERROR state)
22:20:31 Silvia, I think the concern is that the video not play if the attempt to load the text track fails, or is delayed
22:20:44 if it succeeds, the tracks are available for display - if not, they are not
22:21:28 SH: Think we can close this bug as it's about fallback, but we're discussing a different bug.
22:21:29 should a broken text track really stop a perfectly fine video from playing?
22:22:17 Silvia, are you saying that the movie doesn't play if the attempt to load text track has not yet finished?
22:23:49 if a text track is to be loaded and thus the browser goes from NONE to LOADING state, it probably makes sense for the playback to wait a bit
22:24:02 GF: If user said, want captions, need to indicate they didn't load, proceed anyway?
22:25:10 if after an acceptable waiting time the captions haven't loaded, the caption track should probably transition to ERROR state and an indication being shown on screen, but the video start playback
22:25:16 SH: Perhaps ua not required to play video if indicated resource unavailable
22:25:30 then it is up to the user to decide if they want to accept the video without captions or try a different track manually
22:26:22 I'm just considering that a video that hasn't got any captions available will also play and not be stopped by an accessibility requirement of a user
22:26:46 so if a caption load fails, this is the same fallback situation
22:28:09 GF: Ideal to let the user know that error has made my default requirements unavailable this time.
22:28:24 EC: Yes, but that's not html spec, it's ua
22:29:19 a message such as "english caption track failed to load" would certainly be helpful
22:30:25 SH: It's 'should' so there's wiggle room for the ua
22:30:33 similarly a message to the screen reader about "english text descriptions failed to load" would be good, too
22:30:51 Silvia, won't be a screen reader with captions, though. Probably only the browser
22:31:16 JF: Close 8657, not what we're discussing here
22:31:23 janina: