21:59:30 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:59:30 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/01/05-html-a11y-irc
21:59:35 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:59:35 ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM already started
21:59:42 zakim, call janina
21:59:42 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:44 +Janina
22:00:03 zakim, who's here?
22:00:03 On the phone I see John_Foliot, Janina
22:00:04 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, JF, JAllan, oedipus_away, MikeSmith, sideshow, trackbot
22:01:09 Sean has joined #html-a11y
22:02:43 + +44.154.558.aaaa
22:04:08 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
22:04:08 Chair: Janina_Sajka
22:04:08 agenda: this
22:04:08 agenda+ Identify Scribe
22:04:08 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
22:04:09 agenda+ Itemized Bugs Review -- See itemization below
22:04:11 agenda+ Media Queries on Track http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0145.html
22:04:13 agenda+ Poster Issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0054.html
22:04:15 agenda+ Other Business?
22:04:17 agenda+ be done
22:04:19
22:04:24 zakim, next item
22:04:24 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
22:04:38 scribe, JF
22:04:39 scribe: John_Foliot
22:05:15 zakim, next item
22:05:15 agendum 1 was just opened, janina
22:05:22 zakim, close item 1
22:05:22 agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
22:05:23 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:05:25 2. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina]
22:08:13 +Eric_Carlson
22:08:45 eric_carlson has joined #html-a11y
22:09:04 regrets: Silvia
22:09:09 regrets: Geoff
22:09:19 zakim, make log public
22:09:19 I don't understand 'make log public', janina
22:09:28 rrsagent, make log public
22:09:39 rrsagent, make minutes
22:09:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/05-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
22:12:30 + +039038aabb
22:12:36 re action item 88 - Janina to take back to PF
22:13:07 zakim, +039038aabb is Kenny_Johar
22:13:07 +Kenny_Johar; got it
22:14:31 kenny_j has joined #html-a11y
22:15:10 zakim, next item
22:15:10 agendum 2. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
22:15:26 zakim, next item
22:15:26 agendum 2 was just opened, JF
22:15:51 MikeSmith_ has joined #html-a11y
22:16:14 +Judy
22:16:37 Action Items reviewed
22:16:37 Sorry, couldn't find user - Items
22:16:58 zakim, item 3
22:16:58 I don't understand 'item 3', JF
22:17:08 zakim, agendum3
22:17:08 I don't understand 'agendum3', JF
22:17:13 fine
22:17:28 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8657
22:17:30 - Allow UA to reload fallback content if it fails to load. (RESOLVED
22:17:31 NEEDSINFO) - Gez Lemon
22:21:32 Decision: close bug #8657 with no further input
22:21:36 -Janina
22:22:04 +Janina
22:22:49 janina has joined #html-a11y
22:24:24 zakim, who's here?
22:24:24 On the phone I see John_Foliot, +44.154.558.aaaa, Eric_Carlson, Kenny_Johar (muted), Judy, Janina
22:24:26 On IRC I see janina, MikeSmith, kenny_j, eric_carlson, Sean, RRSAgent, Zakim, JF, JAllan, oedipus_away, sideshow, trackbot
22:24:45 zakim, aaaa is Sean_Hayes
22:24:45 +Sean_Hayes; got it
22:25:42 zakim, call janina
22:25:42 ok, janina; the call is being made
22:25:44 +Janina
22:25:54 -Janina
22:28:04 Eric: the current spec states that videos cannot start to play until captions are fully downloaded.
22:30:03 Sean is re-reading the spec. It now states that videos can play even if transcripts/captions are incomplete, as the text file is still in the ready state.
22:30:12 this seems to be wrong to most on the call
22:31:25 Janina: if the user has asked for a specific track, and it does not download, then the video should not play
22:31:50 Sean: suggest that we look to ensure that what Eric thought was the case (it won't play) is in fact what is in the spec
22:32:26 Sean: will investigate and follow up with group next week
22:32:42 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8673 - Restriction on command element as part of a menu. (RESOLVED NEEDSINFO) - Gez Lemon
22:33:24 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9673 - Remove any reference to a specific Time Stamp format for video captioning from the specification at this time. (RESOLVED WORKSFORME) - John Foliot
22:35:29 Judy: there were a few different stages required top ensure this was done. We had it addressed for the heart-beat publication, and then the working draft that was in progress
22:35:38 Janina: has it krept back in
22:35:48 Sean: there is another bug related to this as well
22:36:41 Sean: the draft spec still has some residual indications of WebSRT
22:37:53 ACTION: JF to follow up on bug #9673
22:37:54 Created ACTION-97 - Follow up on bug #9673 [on John Foliot - due 2011-01-12].
22:38:11 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9773
22:38:12 - There is not a clear difference between "subtitles" and "captions".
22:38:14 These are mostly used to describe "closed captions" (binary transmissions in TV broadcasts) vs "subtitles" (text files), as far as I know. (RESOLVED
22:38:15 WORKSFORME) - contributor@whatwg.org
22:38:46 Janina: we need to ensure we can have both kinds of text tracks
22:38:53 Judy: +1
22:41:23 Bug 9773 should refer to bug 11593 for more details
22:41:36 +Jim_Allan
22:41:39 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9774 - "consecutive lines displayed below each other" - since subtitles tend to be rendered at the bottom, it's actually better for new subtitles to be rendered higher up. Of course, the individual lines of each subtitle still extend downwards, but it's still possibly better to say "after each other". (VERIFIED INVALID) - contributor@whatwg.org
22:44:58 Janina: suggest we ask Geoff to look at this for more feedback
22:46:24 Sean: will investigate this further and report back next week
22:46:45 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9775 - "positioned to a multiple of the line dimensions of the first line of the cue" - enforcing the same line height for every line ihurts text rendering appearance for no apparent reason. This is especially true if text styling is supported (bold text is large)" (RESOLVED NEEDSINFO) - contributor@whatwg.org
22:52:12 Seems the issue is that the start of the caption region is defined using line-height as the unit of measure
22:52:37 this may have accessibility implications as it might actually push the caption outside of the video region
22:53:27 Sean: there are 2 ways of establishing the position, if you set the fag to snap-to-lines then this may be an issue
22:53:45 if the flag is set to false, then the number is treated as a percentage
22:54:02 so it is a snap-to-grid mechanism
22:56:43 Sean: this has been set into the text-track 'cue'
22:57:13 some of these flags are likely too specific for the HTML5 spec, and Sean suggests taht this should be move to the text track format spec
22:58:11 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10693 - Need a means for navigating between related timed tracks of media elements (RESOLVED NEEDSINFO) - Silvia Pfeiffer
23:00:02 Will ask Silvia to follow up with this.
23:00:34 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10839 - Providing visible indication that descriptions and captions are available. (RESOLVED WORKSFORME) - John Foliot
23:04:55 q+
23:05:40 This is covered by UAAG, and will likely also be visited by the new WG emerging at W3C
23:05:50 ack
23:05:57 zakim, ack me
23:05:57 I see no one on the speaker queue
23:06:29 I need to drop off the call now. Talk to you all next week.
23:06:42 Consensus to close this bug
23:06:56 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10840 - Allow the user to independently adjust the volumes of the audio description and original soundtracks. (RESOLVED NEEDSINFO) - John Foliot
23:07:06 -Kenny_Johar
23:07:24 same answer as 10839
23:07:36 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10841 - We require a method to allow the user to control playback timing in order to have more time to understand the material. (RESOLVED NEEDSINFO) - John Foliot
23:10:57 Some of this falls into UAAG area
23:11:45 This seems to be an open issue within our group - leave open/as is
23:12:04 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10842 - Support the isolation of speech from other background sounds in AV media (RESOLVED NEEDSINFO) - John Foliot
23:12:59 -Janina
23:13:05 zakim, call janina
23:13:05 ok, janina; the call is being made
23:13:06 +Janina
23:14:01 Sean: this is partially a labeling issue, and a production issue
23:14:54 janina has joined #html-a11y
23:15:16 labeling issue is covered by bug #11593
23:16:01 Sean: what are the different package types inside the audio file, how do we separate them apart and expose them to the user
23:17:17 Judy has joined #html-a11y
23:17:36 -Sean_Hayes
23:17:39 Judy has changed the topic to:
23:18:02 http://www.w3.org/mid/4D09263F.6060101@w3.org
23:18:36 +Sean_Hayes
23:21:45 Sean: once we have the ability to identify and "mark up" supporting media resources, we need to ensure that Clear audio is one of the types
23:22:03 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10843
23:22:05 - Support user control over the visual presentation of caption text.
23:22:07 (RESOLVED NEEDSINFO) - John Foliot
23:32:23 first need to determine what aspects of rendering must be under the control of the user, then ensure that they can be modified by user applied style-sheets
23:32:43 we need to continue with this, in concert with UAAG
23:34:24 -Judy
23:34:52 we need to continue this issue further, plus remaining bugs
23:34:56 next week
23:35:10 -Eric_Carlson
23:35:12 -Jim_Allan
23:35:22 -Sean_Hayes
23:35:25 Janina: meeting ajourned
23:35:34 zakim, bye
23:35:34 leaving. As of this point the attendees were John_Foliot, Janina, +44.154.558.aaaa, Eric_Carlson, Kenny_Johar, Judy, Sean_Hayes, Jim_Allan
23:35:34 Zakim has left #html-a11y
23:35:51 rrsagent, make minutes
23:35:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/01/05-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
23:37:44 http://www.w3.org/2011/01/05-html-a11y-irc