15:55:13 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:55:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-irc
15:55:15 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:55:16 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:55:17 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:55:18 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:55:18 Date: 16 December 2010
15:55:18 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:23 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0176.html
15:55:27 kliehm has joined #html-a11y
15:55:30 zakim, this will be 2119
15:55:30 ok, MichaelC; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
15:55:35 chair: Janina_Sajka
15:56:30 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
15:56:37 + +1.650.468.aaaa
15:57:46 +Gregory_Rosmaita
15:57:52 janina has joined #html-a11y
15:58:15 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
15:58:15 ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM already started
15:58:22 zakim, call janina
15:58:22 ok, janina; the call is being made
15:58:24 +Janina
15:58:26 + +49.179.103.aabb
15:58:32 greg, yes
15:58:42 zakim, aaaa is John_Foliot
15:58:42 +John_Foliot; got it
15:58:51 Leonie_Watson has joined #html-a11y
15:59:28 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
15:59:28 Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:59:28 agenda: this
15:59:28 agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:59:28 agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:59:29 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Media; Bug Triage
15:59:31 agenda+ Scheduling a Face to Face in 2011
15:59:33 agenda+ Revisiting Issue-30 longdesc
15:59:35 agenda+ Keyboard Access Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0105.html
15:59:37 agenda+ Forms Accessibility
15:59:39 agenda+ Issue-122 Lady of Shalott Example
15:59:41 agenda+ Issue-31 Resolving alt text guidance
15:59:43 agenda+ be done--Adjourn to 6 January 2011
15:59:54 zakim, who's here?
15:59:57 On the phone I see John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, kliehm (muted), Janina
16:00:04 On IRC I see Leonie_Watson, janina, kliehm, Zakim, RRSAgent, JF, MikeSmith, oedipus, MichaelC, trackbot, sideshow
16:00:46 +Michael_Cooper
16:00:49 +Léonie_Watson
16:02:20 Leonie_Watson has joined #html-a11y
16:03:00 zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:00 On the phone I see John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, kliehm (muted), Janina, Michael_Cooper, Léonie_Watson
16:04:24 +Eric_Carlson
16:04:25 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:25 On the phone I see John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, kliehm (muted), Janina, Michael_Cooper, Léonie_Watson, Eric_Carlson
16:04:44 eric has joined #html-a11y
16:05:20 scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
16:05:27 scribenick: oedipus
16:05:50 +Cynthia_Shelly
16:06:00 s/scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita//
16:06:08 s/scribenick: oeidpus//
16:06:09 scribe: Leonie_Watson
16:06:30 zakim, next item
16:06:30 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
16:06:52 zakim, close item 1
16:06:52 agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
16:06:54 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:56 2. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina]
16:06:59 zakim, next item
16:06:59 agendum 2. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
16:07:02 +??P3
16:07:31 action-85
16:07:32 action-85?
16:07:32 ACTION-85 -- Janina Sajka to find someone to create a change proposal for ISSUE-80 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80 -- due 2010-12-09 -- OPEN
16:07:32 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/85
16:07:37 Stevef has joined #html-a11y
16:08:29 GJR: has volunteered to help leonie should she need it
16:08:58 action-86?
16:08:58 ACTION-86 -- Everett Zufelt to create change proposal for ISSUE-133 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/133 -- due 2010-11-22 -- OPEN
16:08:58 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/86
16:09:49 ISSUE-133 has been closed on 14 December
16:10:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/133
16:10:50 zakim, ??P3 is Steve_Faulkner
16:10:50 +Steve_Faulkner; got it
16:11:06 action-87?
16:11:06 ACTION-87 -- Everett Zufelt to create change proposal for ISSUE-134 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134 -- due 2011-01-05 -- OPEN
16:11:06 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/87
16:11:30 action-90?
16:11:30 ACTION-90 -- Michael Cooper to do gap analysis between embedded content use cases and existing support -- due 2010-12-09 -- OPEN
16:11:30 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/90
16:12:49 JS: One other item not captured in actions - Everett to give us new language for drag and drop
16:13:13 SF: Drop zone attrib was added in response to the issue.
16:13:22 note that Gez worked on this issue, too -- don't know his schedule, but might pick up the action?
16:13:54 CS: Is there anyone who understands Everett's position?
16:14:04 SF: Suggest Gez.
16:14:57 GJR: We had an approach some while ago, based on Gez's thoughts.
16:16:18 GJR: I can start a conversation with Gez and Everett to try and understand the situation.
16:17:03 action: rosmaita find someone to work on change proposal for drag and drop - due 5 Jan 2011
16:17:03 Created ACTION-93 - find someone to work on change proposal for drag and drop [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2011-01-05].
16:17:39 issue-142?
16:17:39 ISSUE-142 does not exist
16:17:40 JF: Another action? On the video still - issue 142.
16:18:19 JS: How should we move on this?
16:18:33 s/video still/video and poster issues/
16:18:54 JF: I'm putting together a change proposal, it's a complex topic and both perspectives have merit.
16:21:32 s/JF: I'm putting together a change proposal, it's a complex topic and both perspectives have merit./EC: I'm putting together a change proposal, it's a complex topic and both perspectives have merit./
16:22:07 s/EC: I'm putting together a change proposal, it's a complex topic and both perspectives have merit./JF: I'm putting together a change proposal, it's a complex topic and both perspectives have merit./
16:22:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:22:27 action: foliot to draft change proposal for html-issue-142 video (poster alt) - due 13 Jan 2011
16:22:27 Created ACTION-94 - draft change proposal for html-issue-142 video (poster alt) [on John Foliot - due 2011-01-13].
16:22:49 zakim, next item
16:22:49 agendum 3. "Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Media; Bug Triage" taken up [from janina]
16:23:05 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Comparison_Overview
16:24:20 JS: Media, is there a time frame in the HTML WG around elevating a bug to an issue?
16:24:29 Canvas Minutes: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Minutes
16:25:22 CS: It's the 2nd January.
16:25:59 zakim, next item
16:25:59 agendum 4. "Scheduling a Face to Face in 2011" taken up [from janina]
16:26:10 regrets: Kenny_Johar,Joshue_O'Connor,Silvia_Pfieffer,Laura_Carlson,Denis_Boudreau
16:26:22 JS: Would like us to start thinking about a F2F in the first six months of next year.
16:26:56 GJR will not be at CSUN
16:27:11 SF, CS, JS will be at CSUN
16:27:17 JS: Talking with MS and MC, is CSUN a good place/time to meet?
16:27:24 http://lanyrd.com/2011/csun/
16:27:29 ACTION: Media Sub Team to revisit bug 11395 assign to John Foliot Due Jan 6
16:27:29 Sorry, couldn't find user - Media
16:28:04 eric has joined #html-a11y
16:28:07 ACTION: John Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due Jan. 6
16:28:07 Created ACTION-95 - Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due Jan. 6 [on John Foliot - due 2010-12-23].
16:28:16 CS: MS already have a room reservation
16:28:45 a lot of people going to SXSW and CSUN
16:29:13 JF: Will need to get back to work the week after.
16:29:42 CS: Could we look at holding the meeting during CSUN?
16:30:10 JS: It's unreasonable for us to assume that three months from now we'll have everything finished & we need to get our ducks in a row.
16:30:11 the whole forms section needs to be reviewed and discussed
16:30:46 CS: Is March/CSUN too late?
16:31:13 JF: Could we do it on the Sunday perhaps?
16:31:24 JS: It's not ideal, but we've done it in the past.
16:31:50 timeline to last call (MJS) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0074.html
16:32:14 "Mar 22, 2011 - all calls for counter-proposals complete Consequences of missing this date: if any issue has only one proposal, we call for consensus on that proposal."
16:33:17 " Feb 23, 2011 - every issue has at least one Change Proposal = Consequences of missing this date: issues will be closed without prejudice and marked POSTPONED; can be reconsidered during LC or for a later version of HTML.
16:34:26 q+ to say real "deadline" is 23 february 2011
16:34:28 JF: Last day of SxSW is first day of CSUN.
16:34:50 q?
16:35:26 JS: We'll think about doing someting around CSUN, but we're aware of complications/overlaps with other events around that time. Let's look at the Monday after CSUN.
16:35:33 q?
16:36:08 CS: Instead of two full days before/after, could we do several smaller chunks during the conference itself?
16:36:37 GJR: The real deadline is 23rd Feb, that's the date by which each issue must have a change proposal.
16:37:31 CS: Perhaps we should look at a date in early Feb?
16:38:04 ack oe
16:38:04 oedipus, you wanted to say real "deadline" is 23 february 2011
16:38:08 MC: 8 week notice is best practice, think we're allowed to have less notice if the whole WG doesn't object, but it's generally a bad ida.
16:38:20 s/ida/idea/
16:38:26 GJR: what about virtual face 2 face meetings -- 2 or 3 or 4 hour chunks
16:39:18 JF: If we had a full list of issues we wanted to discuss at a F2F, we could bring it to the chairs and explain we'll be meeting in March to discuss in detail.
16:40:42 JS: We need to look at our collective availability in/around CSUN, and also for the week of 13th Feb.
16:40:50 plus 1 to week of 13th
16:40:58 +1 to week/c 13th
16:42:06 Note: January 22, 2010 is the cutoff for escalating bugs for pre-LC consideration - all issues in tracker, calls for proposal issued by this date = Consequences of missing this date: any further escalations will be treated as a Last Call comment.
16:42:27 If we go in Feb., I can research a room at Stanford if required - off is there
16:42:31 zakim, next item
16:42:31 agendum 5. "Revisiting Issue-30 longdesc" taken up [from janina]
16:42:34 s/off/offer
16:44:11 my issue-122 action: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images
16:45:22 GJR: My thoughts on issue 122 are ready to forward I think.
16:46:06 GJR: We had general agreement on the wording during TPAC, and I've tried to explain this perspective to Laura as well.
16:47:04 LW: previous TF work on @title?
16:47:29 LW: change proposal is to forbid @title as substitute for @alt -- title is for additional meta-info about the element
16:48:24 VERBOSE DESCRIPTOR REQUIREMENTS -- full document at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
16:48:25 1. A programmatic mechanism to reference a specific set of structured content, internal or external to the document containing the described image.
16:48:27 2. A way to inform users and authors that a description is present/available.
16:48:28 3. A device independent way to access the descriptive content.
16:48:30 4. An explicit provision that accessing descriptive content, whether internal or external to the document containing the image, does NOT take the user away from the user's position in the document containing the image where the verbose descriptor was invoked;
16:48:32 5. A way to provide user control over exposition of the descriptor so that rendering of the image and its description is not an either/or proposition. (A visual indicator of the description should NOT be a forced visual encumbrance on sighted users by default).
16:48:33 6. A method to reference a longer description of an image, without including the content in the main flow of a page.
16:48:35 logged as HTML WG Bug 10853: HTML5 Lacks A Verbose Descriptor Mechanism http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10853
16:48:55 GJR: have use cases, etc at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
16:50:02 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs
16:50:19 Leonie_Watson has joined #html-a11y
16:50:36 Leonie_Watson what's the issue you are writing a change proposal for?
16:50:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Use_Cases
16:50:53 3rd item is that we look at use today
16:51:00 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Requirements
16:51:15 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Related_Resources
16:51:33 s/3rd item is that we look at use today/JS: 3rd item is that we look at use today/
16:52:01 GJR: I think that's already been done, Laura added to the info page.
16:52:25 JS: In January let's look to putting together a reconsideration response.
16:53:08 JS: 4th, a discussion of backwards/forwards support.
16:53:16 GJR: needs to add implementation notes (with big thanks to JF!)
16:54:03 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Satisfying_These_Requirements_for_HTML5
16:54:07 JS: Value of ARIA is that it applies in a host neutral manner
16:55:10 no objection here
16:55:50 GJR: Janina's points covered everything.
16:56:08 VERBOSE DESCRIPTOR REQUIREMENTS -- full document at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs 1. A programmatic mechanism to reference a specific set of structured content, internal or external to the document containing the described image. 2. A way to inform users and authors that a description is present/available. 3. A device independent way to access the descriptive...
16:56:10 ...content. 4. An explicit provision that accessing descriptive content, whether internal or external to the document containing the image, does NOT take the user away from the user's position in the document containing the image where the verbose descriptor was invoked; 5. A way to provide user control over exposition of the descriptor so that rendering of the image and its description is...
16:56:12 ...not an either/or proposition. (A visual indicator of the description should NOT be a forced visual encumbrance on sighted users by default). 6. A method to reference a longer description of an image, without including the content in the main flow of a page. actual requirements logged as bug logged as HTML WG Bug 10853: HTML5 Lacks A Verbose Descriptor Mechanism http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/s
16:56:14 how_bug.cgi?id=10853
16:56:45 zakim, next item
16:56:45 agendum 6. "Keyboard Access Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0105.html" taken up [from janina]
16:56:56 JS: Where do we stand on this?
16:57:05 action-95 due 6 Jan 2011
16:57:05 ACTION-95 Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due Jan. 6 due date now 6 Jan 2011
16:57:14 GJR: Still in progress, need to catch up with the triage team.
16:58:29 GJGJR: If anyone has time, please review the forms section.
16:59:15 GJR: Parts of the spec concern me.
16:59:20 SF: Which bits in particular?
16:59:55 GJR: To make sure that the accessibility isn't lost, went from web forms as a separate doc to part of the whole, and there are things I need to untangle in my own mind.
17:01:20 SF: ISF: Can read through in early January, in time for 13th.
17:01:38 zakim, next item
17:01:38 agendum 7. "Forms Accessibility" taken up [from janina]
17:01:44 propose we have a longer call on the 13th. Could we start an hour earlier that day?
17:01:49 -kliehm
17:02:04 zakim, next item
17:02:04 agendum 7 was just opened, Leonie_Watson
17:02:12 zakim, close item 7
17:02:13 agendum 7, Forms Accessibility, closed
17:02:15 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:02:16 zakim, next item
17:02:16 8. Issue-122 Lady of Shalott Example [from janina]
17:02:16 agendum 8. "Issue-122 Lady of Shalott Example" taken up [from janina]
17:02:55 JF: Let's take this to the list.
17:03:01 JS: Good suggestion, let's do it.
17:03:23 resume meetings 6 January 2011
17:03:25 [adjourned]
17:03:44 -Eric_Carlson
17:03:46 -Cynthia_Shelly
17:03:46 -Janina
17:03:50 janina has left #html-a11y
17:03:53 -John_Foliot
17:03:56 -Michael_Cooper
17:03:58 -Steve_Faulkner
17:07:08 -Gregory_Rosmaita
17:07:09 -Léonie_Watson
17:07:09 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
17:07:10 Attendees were +1.650.468.aaaa, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina, +49.179.103.aabb, kliehm, John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, Léonie_Watson, Eric_Carlson, Cynthia_Shelly, Steve_Faulkner
17:07:15 zakim, please part
17:07:15 Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:07:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:08:09 eric has left #html-a11y
17:09:20 present- +1.650.468.aaaa, +49.179.103.aabb
17:09:27 present- kliehm, Janina
17:09:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:09:33 present+ Martin_Kliehm,Janina_Sajka
17:09:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:11:20 s/Revisiting Issue-30 longdesc/TOPIC: Lady of Shallott (ISSUE-122)/
17:11:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:12:48 issue-80?
17:12:48 ISSUE-80 does not exist
17:13:09 i/LW: previous TF work on @title?/TOPIC: @title is NOT a substitute for @alt ChangeProposal/
17:13:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:13:49 i/LW: previous TF work on @title?/scribenick: oedipus/
17:13:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:15:20 i/VERBOSE DESCRIPTOR REQUIREMENTS -- full document at/TOPIC: Revisiting Issue-30 longdesc/
17:15:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:16:30 oedipus has joined #html-a11y
17:18:45 i/JS: 3rd item is that we look at use today/scribe: Leonie_Watson/
17:18:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
17:19:05