14:52:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
14:52:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc
14:52:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sparql
14:52:23 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, this will be SPARQL
14:52:23 <Zakim> ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
14:57:08 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
14:57:22 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
14:57:29 <Zakim> +??P5
14:57:42 <cbuilara> Zakim, ??P5 is me
14:57:42 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:58:20 <Zakim> +??P10
14:58:20 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
14:58:33 <NickH> Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:58:33 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
14:58:54 <Zakim> +OlivierCorby
14:59:21 <Zakim> +davidshotton
14:59:27 <Zakim> +kasei
14:59:35 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #sparql
15:00:03 <AxelPolleres> trackbot, start meeting
15:00:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
15:00:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:08 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
15:00:08 <trackbot> Date: 14 December 2010
15:00:20 <bglimm> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:21 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:23 <Zakim> I notice SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has restarted
15:00:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, davidshotton, kasei, Sandro
15:00:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, davidshotton, kasei, Sandro
15:00:26 <Zakim> +??P18
15:00:33 <AndyS> zakim, PP18 is me
15:00:33 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'PP18'
15:00:33 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
15:00:40 <AndyS> zakim, P18 is me
15:00:40 <Zakim> sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named 'P18'
15:00:44 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
15:00:44 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:00:50 <AndyS> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:00:50 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:01:05 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:01:05 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
15:01:16 <Zakim> +MattPerry
15:01:17 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:01:25 <bglimm> Zakim, who am I?
15:01:27 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, bglimm.
15:01:45 <bglimm> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, davidshotton, kasei, AndyS, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry
15:01:59 <Zakim> + +1.617.489.aaaa
15:02:08 <sandro> zakim, +1.617.489.aaaa is Sandr
15:02:17 <AxelPolleres> 41# on the phone should work for hands up
15:02:22 <Zakim> +Sandr; got it
15:02:27 <sandro> zakim, Sandr is Sandro
15:02:29 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:36 <Zakim> -davidshotton
15:02:40 <Zakim> +Sandro; got it
15:02:43 <AxelPolleres> ack AxelPolleres
15:02:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, kasei, AndyS, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry, Sandro
15:02:50 <AxelPolleres> q-
15:02:54 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:02:57 <Zakim> +pgearon
15:03:15 <AxelPolleres> ack 41#
15:03:25 <sandro> queue=
15:03:31 <sandro> q?
15:03:32 <bglimm> I think that is me, but the phone is just ringing
15:03:41 <Zakim> 41#, you wanted to comment on the phone should work for 
15:03:50 <sandro> zakim, is being super slow
15:03:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'is being super slow', sandro
15:04:10 <AxelPolleres> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-12-14
15:04:14 <Zakim> +davidshotton
15:04:16 <AxelPolleres> chair: axel Polleres
15:04:26 <bglimm> Zakim, davidshotton is bglimm
15:04:27 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
15:04:45 <AxelPolleres> scribe: Birte Glimm
15:05:01 <AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-12-07
15:05:01 <bglimm> Topic: admin
15:05:31 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Any comments?
15:05:35 <NickH> missing the word Agenda
15:05:39 <chimezie> "Sorry, Not Found"
15:05:45 <bglimm> Chimezie: I don't get any minutes there.
15:06:22 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: I'll check and we approve them next time
15:06:30 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: axel to check minutes from  last time
15:06:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-342 - Check minutes from  last time [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].
15:06:44 <bglimm> Topic: Comments
15:07:00 <sandro> (the IRC log isnt even on the wiki where it should be at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Chatlog_2010-12-07 )
15:07:10 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Please try to get comments approved and send
15:07:40 <bglimm> ... next meeting in a week
15:07:57 <bglimm> ... Olivier is next on the scribe list
15:08:12 <bglimm> Olivier: I am not sure I can attend next week
15:08:32 <AxelPolleres> topic: report from protocol TC
15:08:37 <bglimm> Topic: Report from the Protocoll teleconf
15:08:50 <bglimm> s/Protocoll/protocol/
15:09:11 <AxelPolleres> summary is http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Protocol plus the minutes at http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-sparql-minutes.html
15:09:15 <bglimm> Greg: We talked about 5 issues
15:09:34 <bglimm> ... first content format for update request
15:10:00 <bglimm> .... a) string with key-value pairs or b) a raw format with appropriate media type
15:10:13 <AlexPassant> AlexPassant has joined #sparql
15:10:23 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:10:24 <AxelPolleres> alex, can u scribe next week?
15:10:31 <bglimm> ... ability to pass extra arguments like the default dataset
15:10:45 <Zakim> +AlexPassant
15:10:47 <bglimm> ... and how that can be done
15:10:51 <AndyS> zakim, why did you cut me off?
15:10:51 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AndyS.
15:10:59 <AlexPassant> AxelPolleres: no I have to send regrets for next week sorry
15:11:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:11:04 <bglimm> ... we'll add a note to the doc to ask for feedback
15:11:06 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:11:24 <bglimm> ... related to issue 60 is what is in the response to an update
15:11:28 <Zakim> +??P44
15:11:35 <AndyS> zakim, ??P44 is me
15:11:35 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:11:42 <bglimm> ... we probably didn't get there, but we discussed response and error code
15:12:08 <bglimm> ... 200 code for success? Could be problematic if systems want to redirect (e.g., from POST to GET)
15:12:28 <bglimm> ... we decided not to describe something here, should fall out from HTTP good practises
15:13:01 <bglimm> AndyS: My understanding is we would follow HTTP in what that says, so most is predefined
15:13:18 <bglimm> ... we could mention the common practise
15:13:27 <bglimm> Greg: That's also my understanding
15:13:42 <AxelPolleres> HTTP doesn't leave much freedom on return codes... will tell us what to do. 
15:13:47 <bglimm> ... forth issue is faults and error messages
15:14:34 <bglimm> .... there was consensus that we want to express error messages in plain text, more structures errors can be dealt with in a next WG
15:14:35 <AxelPolleres> plain text errors and leaving more structured error descriptions to a future group.
15:14:53 <bglimm> ... final issues: patch, issue 56
15:14:53 <AxelPolleres> HTTP PATCH ?
15:15:03 <bglimm> ... looking into patch for update issues. 
15:15:34 <sandro> !!!
15:15:36 <bglimm> .... patch says that the resource should not me modified, otherwise POST should be used
15:15:58 <bglimm> ... we agreed to not pursue PATCH since it does not seem to be a good fit for our situation
15:16:06 <sandro> (I don't care about PATCH, but yes, of course "the resource" is the graph store.)
15:16:41 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: We probably need a concrete proposal to close issue 56
15:16:42 <Souri> Souri has joined #sparql
15:17:02 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:17:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, kasei, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji (muted), MattPerry, Sandro, pgearon, bglimm, AlexPassant, AndyS
15:17:02 <bglimm> Sandro: Who wanted to use PATCH? I don't think we can close the issue now.
15:17:10 <Zakim> +Souri
15:17:15 <bglimm> Greg: I think Paul suggested it initially. 
15:17:33 <pgearon> that's correct. I was interested, but it seemed like I'm the only one, so the outcome was not to use it
15:17:44 <pgearon> I did not suggest it initially
15:17:50 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
15:17:50 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
15:18:13 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: I think Sandro and Greg agree that the issues is closable. 
15:18:26 <sandro> sandro: Okay, if GET on the endpoint gives you the service description, then yes, using PATCH on the endpoint shouldn't be used to update the quad store.
15:18:57 <AxelPolleres> ISSUE-56 can be closed from Protocol's point of view, but still open for http-rdf-update ?
15:19:28 <AndyS> q+ to ask in what way it is still open for the REST-protocol
15:19:38 <bglimm> Axel: I can close issue 56 and open a new one for http-update
15:19:51 <bglimm> AndyS: In what way is it still open?
15:19:53 <AxelPolleres> s/Axel/chime/
15:20:31 <AndyS> ack AndyS
15:20:31 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask in what way it is still open for the REST-protocol
15:20:39 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Is patch allowed for http-update?
15:21:05 <bglimm> Chime: It is not always clear what is to be modified, but if it is clear, it can be used
15:21:35 <bglimm> ... I suggested some text in an email to get more feedback, but other than that I think it can be closed
15:21:48 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0352.html
15:22:13 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Can people please have a look at that email. 
15:22:31 <bglimm> ... I suggest we proceed by email and see whether we can close it next week
15:22:35 <bglimm> Chime: ok
15:22:47 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:22:47 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
15:23:04 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to put closing of ISSUE-56 on next week's agenda, asking for more discussion on the proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0352.html on email.
15:23:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-343 - Put closing of ISSUE-56 on next week's agenda, asking for more discussion on the proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0352.html on email. [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].
15:23:21 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Anything more from the protocol teleconf?
15:23:29 <bglimm> Greg: No, that's all
15:23:35 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Anything on the schedule?
15:23:46 <bglimm> Greg: No, not discussed
15:23:58 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Lee and I have to look into that then
15:24:13 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to talk with Lee about protocol schedule 
15:24:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-344 - Talk with Lee about protocol schedule  [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].
15:24:35 <AxelPolleres> topic: rif:usedWithProfile
15:24:43 <bglimm> Topic: RIF-usedWithProfile
15:24:47 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0430.html
15:25:01 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: The email summarizes the status
15:25:28 <bglimm> ... I went back to the RIF WG, to discuss how we can refer to RIF docs from within RDF docs
15:25:51 <bglimm> The predicate would have a rule set as subject and ent. profile from RIF as object
15:26:12 <AxelPolleres> <r1> rif:usedWithProfile <http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/Simple> .
15:26:37 <bglimm> .... <r1> imports rules that are to be used with the simple ent. profile
15:26:49 <bglimm> ... we added a section to the ent. regimes doc
15:26:57 <AxelPolleres> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x278d4530
15:27:33 <bglimm> ... happy about comments
15:27:58 <bglimm> .... Sandro, we refer to the RIF-in-RDF encoding, can you check the example that we have?
15:28:06 <bglimm> Sandro: Yes, I'll check that
15:28:16 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: sandro to check example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x278d4530
15:28:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-345 - Check example in http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/entailment/xmlspec.xml#id0x278d4530 [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-12-21].
15:28:35 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
15:28:35 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
15:28:45 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Chime, can you have a look over the new part (7.1)
15:29:02 <bglimm> ... I just replaced rif:import with rif:usedWithProfile
15:29:19 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: chime to look over "side effects" of the new section for RIF entailment regime
15:29:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-346 - Look over "side effects" of the new section for RIF entailment regime [on Chimezie Ogbuji - due 2010-12-21].
15:29:40 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Birte gave some comments already
15:29:51 <bglimm> bglimm: I am happy with the section
15:30:15 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: I suggest we move that to the end of the section
15:30:25 <bglimm> ... it is quite long now
15:31:03 <bglimm> ... if that's ok with everybody, I'll action myself
15:31:18 <bglimm> ... to move it to the end of Sec. 7
15:31:22 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to move "referencing RIF" section to the end of section 7 in ER
15:31:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-347 - Move "referencing RIF" section to the end of section 7 in ER [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].
15:32:04 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: We used in the ent. document the term Informative in others we use non-normative
15:32:10 <bglimm> ... any preference
15:32:25 <bglimm> Sandro: Informative is unfortunate jargon
15:32:37 <bglimm> ... OWL switched to non-normative
15:32:49 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: I suggest we switch to non-normative
15:32:53 <AndyS> SPARQL 1.0 used "informative"
15:33:08 <bglimm> .... Any objections to switch to non-normative
15:33:18 <bglimm> AndyS: I don't see why we should switch
15:33:43 <AxelPolleres> let's stick with "informative"
15:33:44 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Ok, then we just stick with Inforamtive
15:33:57 <bglimm> s/Inforamtive/Informative/
15:34:03 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
15:34:03 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
15:34:17 <AxelPolleres> q?
15:34:21 <bglimm> Topic: Review of actions
15:34:24 <AxelPolleres> topic: acrtion review
15:34:40 <AxelPolleres> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010OctDec/0447.html
15:34:56 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: I tried to identify actions that are critical for LC
15:35:10 <AxelPolleres> ACTION-200: Steve to Work with Andy to add CONSTRUCT WHERE { triple pattern } shortcut to query spec
15:35:10 <trackbot> ACTION-200 Work with Andy to add CONSTRUCT WHERE { triple pattern } shortcut to query spec notes added
15:35:17 <bglimm> ... Action-200 CONSTRUCT WHERE
15:35:31 <bglimm> .... can we have quick opinions?
15:35:53 <kasei> q+
15:36:35 <bglimm> AndyS: We should be careful not to get into conflicts for named graphs and quads
15:37:03 <AndyS> see also LALR(1) checking needed
15:37:29 <bglimm> Greg: I am against this. Even if it does not cause parsing problems, the optional where clause is problematic for humans
15:37:58 <AxelPolleres> strawpoll... Do you want CONSTRUCT WHERE as a shortcut?
15:38:07 <AndyS> no opinion
15:38:11 <kasei> i've seen discussion in the past of a "CONSTRUCT *" syntax that I think would at least mitigate the human confusion...
15:38:11 <chimezie> 0
15:38:16 <kasei> -1
15:38:17 <pgearon> 0
15:38:19 <AxelPolleres> 0
15:38:20 <bglimm> -0
15:38:24 <corby> 0
15:39:09 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: There seems to be no strong support from the WG, I'll get back to Steve to see whether he really think we need it or whether we can live without it
15:39:28 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to get back to Steve on ACTION-200 ... suggesting to pursue without that shortcut or refreshing my memories on it :-)
15:39:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-348 - Get back to Steve on ACTION-200 ... suggesting to pursue without that shortcut or refreshing my memories on it :-) [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].
15:39:51 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Action 209 Steve to Disallow projected variables being reused in HAVING in the spec
15:39:58 <AxelPolleres> done
15:40:13 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-285: Paul to Collect update security issues and report back to mailinglist regarding ISSUE-19
15:40:34 <bglimm> .... has this ever been on the mailing list? 
15:40:49 <bglimm> Paul: Yes, but I didn't write a summary of the discussion
15:40:51 <AxelPolleres> before christmas...
15:41:06 <AxelPolleres> ACTION-286: Lee to Add a note on dropping of SOAP binding to next WD of protocol11 and explicitly solicit feedback on usage of SOAP in SPARQL
15:41:06 <trackbot> ACTION-286 Add a note on dropping of SOAP binding to next WD of protocol11 and explicitly solicit feedback on usage of SOAP in SPARQL notes added
15:41:32 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: There is an action for Lee to drop the SOAP protocol
15:42:07 <bglimm> ... we had some discussion and we decided to hint explicitly that SOAP is no longer official supported/needed
15:42:16 <bglimm> ... any opinions
15:43:00 <bglimm> ... I think it is important to do this
15:43:01 <AxelPolleres> will talk avbout it with lee
15:43:13 <AxelPolleres> ACTION-290: Lee to Make sure that the relationship between SPARQL protocol and HTTP protocol is clearly laid out before Last Call
15:43:13 <trackbot> ACTION-290 Make sure that the relationship between SPARQL protocol and HTTP protocol is clearly laid out before Last Call notes added
15:43:13 <AxelPolleres>  *critical for LC *
15:43:52 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-291: Work MIME type registration information into SPARQL Update document based on Sandro's suggestion for formatting etc.
15:44:14 <bglimm> AxelPolleres:  That was on Paul
15:44:25 <bglimm> Paul: I didn't do that, maybe Alex did
15:44:36 <bglimm> Alex: I didn't do it
15:44:55 <bglimm> AxelPolleres:  Can something happen before Christmas? Can I leave the action with Paul?
15:44:59 <AndyS> I'd like to add a registration for query as well.  Completeness
15:44:59 <AxelPolleres> that one was for Paul... before Christmas? :-)
15:44:59 <bglimm> Paul: OK
15:45:39 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-292: Lee to Make sure text on transactionality/concurrency gets added to protocol document
15:45:39 <AxelPolleres>  *Is this critical for LC? Was it discussed in the protocol call?*
15:45:52 <bglimm> AxelPolleres:  I have to discuss this with Lee
15:45:58 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-306: Lee to Work with Axel to identify potential editor(s) to shepherd through JSON document on Rec track
15:46:01 <AndyS> query content-type gets .rq registered.  Can C&P update, change, remove security issues.
15:46:21 <bglimm> ... we didn't find editors for the JSON format doc yet
15:46:51 <bglimm> ... nobody volunteered and we didn't pursue it either
15:47:00 <bglimm> ... anybody interested to do that?
15:47:18 <bglimm> ... AndyS said he could help, but has many other things to do
15:47:41 <bglimm> AndyS: There is not too much to do, adding a schema section would be nice
15:47:48 <AxelPolleres> schema section would be nice, but not critical, mostly formatting only.
15:47:57 <bglimm> AndyS: Does anybody know of outstanding issues?
15:48:08 <kasei> My feelings are similar to AndyS: willing to help/edit, but less sure if there's lots of work outstanding.
15:48:33 <bglimm> ... it is just a JSON version of the XML result format
15:49:40 <bglimm> Greg: I am pretty loaded, but if it is not too much work I can do it, but I can't tell how much work
15:49:56 <bglimm> AndyS: How about checking this week what is involved?
15:49:57 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: greg to send out question for ISSUES on json format, if no comments ship out as LC
15:49:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-349 - Send out question for ISSUES on json format, if no comments ship out as LC [on Gregory Williams - due 2010-12-21].
15:50:17 <AxelPolleres>  ACTION-324: carlos to Ping carlos/eric in 2-3 weeks for progress on Fed query issues
15:50:59 <bglimm> Carlos ???: Idea was to finish the work this week, I plan to have something for review next week
15:51:05 <AxelPolleres> carlos plans to send out request for review within the week.
15:51:17 <bglimm> ... Friday I'll ask for reviews and proceed with comments
15:51:48 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: ACTION 328 can be closed, Steve confirmed he completed it
15:51:56 <AxelPolleres> ACTION-328 can be closed according to steve
15:52:13 <bglimm> ACTION-331: Andy to Clarify the meaning of "potentially bound" vis a vis what
15:52:13 <trackbot> ACTION-331 Clarify the meaning of "potentially bound" vis a vis what can go on the right hand side of an AS in a SELECT list notes added
15:52:14 <bglimm> can go on the right hand side of an AS in a SELECT list
15:52:27 <bglimm> AndyS: I am working on it
15:52:38 <bglimm> ... I've send a message to the list
15:52:58 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Thanks for the update
15:53:11 <bglimm> ... any updates for the schedule regarding LC?
15:53:32 <bglimm> ... from now on I'll ask in teleconfs for a status
15:53:34 <AxelPolleres>  topic: shcedule
15:53:38 <bglimm> ... Query?
15:54:04 <bglimm> AndyS: little progress, group has been adding lots of things, I am working through the details
15:54:17 <AxelPolleres> place-holders were added, people submitting content would be helpful
15:54:20 <bglimm> people could help by sending details and test cases
15:54:30 <AxelPolleres> ... test cases would be very helpful
15:55:03 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Can anybody help with the function library section?
15:55:13 <bglimm> .... It should be easy to do, but time consuming
15:55:35 <bglimm> ... I can try and give you some input on this
15:55:43 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to draft some input for the function library section
15:55:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-350 - Draft some input for the function library section [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].
15:56:03 <bglimm> ... next doc: update
15:56:19 <bglimm> Alex: I added the shortcuts and asked for feedback
15:56:28 <bglimm> ... I have to go through the pending actions
15:56:42 <bglimm> ... most of them have been taken into account
15:57:16 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Lets see whether we can discuss the formal model in the next couple of days
15:57:23 <bglimm> ... how far from LC? 
15:57:43 <AxelPolleres> 2nd week of Jan seems realistic.
15:57:45 <bglimm> Alex: I think second week of Jan could be doable, mid January
15:58:02 <bglimm> AxelPolleres:  Ent. Regimes
15:58:25 <bglimm> RIF:imports is now resolved
15:58:44 <bglimm> ... next week we discuss Enrico's comments
15:59:04 <bglimm> Sandro: I have some issues that I'll try to make precise
15:59:24 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: next doc: Service Descriptions
15:59:33 <bglimm> Chime: No outstanding issues
15:59:38 <chimezie> Zakim, unmute me
15:59:38 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should no longer be muted
15:59:47 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: HTTP-update?
16:00:03 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/HTTP-UPDATE-ISSUES
16:00:03 <bglimm> ??: I tried to solve open issues on the wiki
16:00:14 <bglimm> s/??/Chime/
16:00:48 <bglimm> ... AndyS and Steve had some issues with relative URIs and I summarized them
16:01:02 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: We can go through that in one of the next tele conferences
16:01:04 <AxelPolleres> ACITON: Axel to put http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/HTTP-UPDATE-ISSUES on one of the next agendas
16:01:15 <AxelPolleres> ACTION: Axel to put http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/HTTP-UPDATE-ISSUES on one of the next agendas
16:01:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-351 - Put http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/HTTP-UPDATE-ISSUES on one of the next agendas [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-12-21].
16:01:21 <chimezie> Zakim, mute me
16:01:21 <Zakim> Chimezie_Ogbuji should now be muted
16:01:36 <bglimm> AxelPolleres: Fed. Queries we'll get an update from Carlos shortly
16:01:55 <bglimm> ... Overview is just one afternoon's work and not that critical
16:02:13 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:02:13 <MattPerry> bye
16:02:14 <bglimm> adjourned
16:02:14 <AxelPolleres> adjourned
16:02:15 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:02:16 <Zakim> -cbuilara
16:02:16 <Zakim> -pgearon
16:02:19 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
16:02:20 <Zakim> -MattPerry
16:02:21 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
16:02:22 <Zakim> -OlivierCorby
16:02:23 <Zakim> -NickH
16:02:28 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:02:30 <Zakim> -kasei
16:03:14 <bglimm> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:03:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-minutes.html bglimm
16:03:20 <Zakim> -Souri
16:03:34 <bglimm> rrsagent, make logs world
16:04:45 <Zakim> -bglimm
16:04:46 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
16:04:47 <Zakim> Attendees were cbuilara, NickH, OlivierCorby, kasei, Sandro, AxelPolleres, Chimezie_Ogbuji, AndyS, MattPerry, pgearon, bglimm, AlexPassant, [IPcaller], Souri
16:06:52 <AxelPolleres> regrets: LeeF, SteveH
16:09:07 <bglimm> Sandro, are you still there?
16:09:17 <bglimm> I get an error when I try to copy the chat log
16:10:14 <bglimm> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:10:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-minutes.html bglimm
16:11:11 <bglimm> rrsagent, make logs world
16:11:20 <bglimm> rrsagent, make minutes world
16:11:20 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world', bglimm.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:12:45 <sandro> bglimm, hey.
16:12:51 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
16:12:51 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc#T16-12-51
16:13:47 <bglimm> hm, but I can't use that for the webpage that converts that into wiki
16:13:48 <bglimm> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/?group=sparql&go=Use+This+Group
16:14:45 <bglimm> That just gives a python script error
16:14:57 <bglimm> Cannot parse RRSAgent URL 
16:15:24 <bglimm> If I remove the #..., I get
16:15:26 <bglimm> HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden 
16:15:27 <bglimm>       close = <bound method HTTPError.close of <HTTPError at 4...8482504 whose fp = <socket._fileobject object>>>> 
16:15:27 <bglimm>       code = 403 
16:15:28 <bglimm>       filename = 'http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt' 
16:15:28 <bglimm>       fileno = <bound method _fileobject.fileno of <socket._fileobject object>> 
16:15:28 <bglimm>       fp = <addinfourl at 47942438482504 whose fp = <socket._fileobject object>> 
16:15:30 <bglimm>       geturl = <bound method HTTPError.geturl of <HTTPError at ...8482504 whose fp = <socket._fileobject object>>>> 
16:15:33 <bglimm>       hdrs = <httplib.HTTPMessage instance> 
16:15:35 <bglimm>       headers = <httplib.HTTPMessage instance> 
16:15:37 <bglimm>       info = <bound method HTTPError.info of <HTTPError at 47...8482504 whose fp = <socket._fileobject object>>>> 
16:15:40 <bglimm>       msg = 'Forbidden' 
16:15:42 <bglimm>       next = <bound method _fileobject.next of <socket._fileobject object>> 
16:15:44 <bglimm>       read = <bound method _fileobject.read of <socket._fileobject object>> 
16:15:46 <bglimm>       readline = <bound method _fileobject.readline of <socket._fileobject object>> 
16:15:48 <bglimm>       readlines = <bound method _fileobject.readlines of <socket._fileobject object>> 
16:15:50 <bglimm>       url = 'http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt'
16:15:52 <bglimm> and indeed I don't have access to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt
16:16:12 <sandro> Yeah, I see that, too.    :-(    
16:16:16 <sandro> You don't have access to that?
16:16:20 <bglimm> No
16:16:26 <bglimm> Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges
16:16:46 <bglimm> You do not have sufficient privileges to access the page that you requested. Some possible reasons:
16:16:47 <bglimm> The level of access required for this page is inconsistent with your account.
16:16:47 <bglimm> There is not yet an access level assigned to this page. If you have been granted rights to do so, you can try to set or change the access level for this resource using the ,access tool.
16:16:55 <AxelPolleres> rrsagent, make records public
16:17:05 <AxelPolleres> now ?
16:17:14 <bglimm> but if I try ,access it says the file is world readable
16:17:19 <AxelPolleres> birte, you know thee drill for commonscribe?
16:17:32 <AxelPolleres> (if so, I focus on last week's minutes...
16:17:35 <bglimm> No, but I tried that command already twice Axel
16:18:04 <bglimm> Well, I have Lee's email and try to follow that
16:18:15 <bglimm> but it doesn't work
16:18:30 <sandro> It's possible the w3.org access-control system is broken / out of sync, so it looks okay in some places, but isn't okay in other places.   :-(
16:20:58 <bglimm> :-(
16:21:11 <sandro> bglimm, so you can't see http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt but can you see http://nelson.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc.txt
16:21:30 <bglimm> I can now see the first
16:21:35 <bglimm> but not the second
16:22:00 <bglimm> but the tool for wiki conversion still complaints that it can't access the file
16:24:07 <bglimm> Can I do it tomorrow maybe? I'd like to finish some other stuff today
16:24:10 <AxelPolleres> I can access http://www.w3.org/2010/12/14-sparql-irc but I can't run common-scribe's copying-IRC-to-wiki tool
16:24:19 <bglimm> Yes, same for me
16:24:36 <AxelPolleres> I need to run, if you can sort that tomorrow that's great.
16:24:49 <AxelPolleres> btw, I just generated and sent out the last week's minutes
16:25:00 <bglimm> I hope I can, depends on whether the tool is willing though
16:25:01 <AxelPolleres> thanks for scribing!
16:25:12 <sandro> done, bglimm 
16:25:20 <bglimm> wow, how did you do it?
16:25:38 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #sparql
16:25:43 <sandro> (I changed the access to Member-Only, then back to World, and then the script could read it.  So, yes, the ACL system was broken.)
16:25:49 <bglimm> I can see the wiki version now :-)
16:25:53 <bglimm> Thanks!
16:27:56 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
16:55:02 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #sparql
17:38:52 <kasei> AndyS, still around?
17:39:48 <AndyS> Yes (not for long though) - just replyin to Chime's msg of 30/Nov
17:40:19 <kasei> do you remember if we talked about or resolved what the capitalization should be for results of the hashing functions?
17:41:00 <kasei> i just committed tests for those functions, but didn't remember what we had said about capitalization...
17:41:47 <AndyS> Don't think we did.  FOAF and sha1sum, md5sum use LC, XSD HexBinary used UC. /me doesn't care and used LC or UC convention inconsitently anyway.  Guess FOAF is more improtant for semweb -> sha1 -> LC => all LC.
17:42:13 <kasei> ok. that was my thinking, too.
17:42:23 <kasei> and conveniently how the perl modules emit their hex.
17:44:10 <kasei> should I also assume the hashing is done on utf8 encoding of literals?
17:46:22 <cbuilara> cbuilara has left #sparql
17:57:06 <AndyS> Guess so (= that's what I do!)
18:10:32 <kasei> right. committed another test.
18:10:42 <kasei> only MD5 for unicode at the moment
18:24:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sparql
18:25:12 <AndyS> Does Perl have a SHA224?  Java only supports NIST FIPS 180-2, not 180-3 which includes SHA-224.
19:03:45 <kasei> yes, it has all the shas
19:04:11 <kasei> Digest::SHA
19:38:07 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #sparql