14:57:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:57:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-irc
14:57:13 <aphillip> zakim, this will be I18N_WG
14:57:14 <Zakim> ok, aphillip; I see I18N_WG(MLW)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:23 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
14:57:24 <David> David has joined #i18n
14:57:32 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization Core Teleconference
14:57:37 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:57:41 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:57:48 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:58:03 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Dec/0007.html
14:58:09 <aphillip> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:58:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:58:28 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
14:58:33 <aphillip> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:58:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:00:10 <David> zakim, mute me
15:00:10 <Zakim> sorry, David, I don't know what conference this is
15:00:24 <aphillip> zakim, this is I18N_WG
15:00:24 <Zakim> aphillip, I see I18N_WG(MLW)10:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be I18N_WG".
15:00:45 <aphillip> zakim, this is I18N_WG(I
15:00:45 <Zakim> sorry, aphillip, I do not see a conference named 'I18N_WG(I' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:00:48 <aphillip> zakim, this is I18N_WG(C
15:00:48 <Zakim> sorry, aphillip, I do not see a conference named 'I18N_WG(C' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:01:13 <r12a> r12a has joined #i18n
15:01:25 <aphillip> zakim, this is I18N_Core
15:01:25 <Zakim> ok, aphillip; that matches I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM
15:01:42 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
15:01:44 <Zakim> +aphillip
15:01:45 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
15:01:47 <r12a> hi addison, give me a moment and i'll start the meeting with tracker
15:02:00 <Zakim> +David
15:02:12 <Zakim> +??P20
15:02:35 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
15:02:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.617.466.aaaa, aphillip, David, ??P20
15:02:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see Norbert, fsasaki, r12a, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, aphillip, kennyluck, freedom, trackbot, fantasai
15:02:55 <David> zakim, mute me
15:02:59 <Zakim> David should now be muted
15:03:09 <r12a> trackbot, prepare a telcon
15:03:09 <trackbot> Sorry, r12a, I don't understand 'trackbot, prepare a telcon'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
15:03:17 <Zakim> +??P24
15:03:36 <r12a> zakim, dial richard-home
15:03:46 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:03:46 <David> I am...
15:03:48 <Zakim> +Richard
15:04:11 <Norbert> zakim, mute norbert
15:04:21 <Zakim> Norbert should now be muted
15:05:09 <r12a> trackbot, status
15:06:10 <r12a> trackbot, prepare telcon
15:06:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:06:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
15:06:14 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM scheduled to start 6 minutes ago
15:06:15 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
15:06:15 <trackbot> Date: 08 December 2010
15:06:52 <aphillip> Topic: Minutes and Agenda review
15:07:09 <aphillip> richard: trackbot
15:07:15 <aphillip> richard: bopomofo
15:07:20 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:07:48 <aphillip> Topic Action Items
15:08:25 <r12a> [close][reopen]ACTION-N
15:08:45 <aphillip> 	Ask fantasai what bits of CSS3 are most interested in being commented upon
15:08:49 <aphillip> close ACTION-1
15:08:49 <trackbot> ACTION-1 Ask fantasai what bits of CSS3 are most interested in being commented upon closed
15:09:01 <aphillip> close ACTION-2
15:09:01 <trackbot> ACTION-2 Move the two I18N meetings so that they don't overlap closed
15:09:03 <aphillip> 	Move the two I18N meetings so that they don't overlap
15:09:24 <aphillip> Ask the Korean HTML5 Interest Group what should happen if "word-break: keep-all" is used with "word-wrap: break-all"
15:10:43 <David> zakim, unmute me
15:10:47 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
15:11:09 <freedom> ok, I am using VoIP, I think that causes the problem
15:11:23 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
15:11:36 <kennyluck> q+
15:11:44 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:11:51 <kennyluck> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Dec/thread.html#msg102
15:11:57 <aphillip> kenny has been working on new CSS property
15:12:04 <aphillip> ... skip-decoration-boundary
15:12:27 <aphillip> ... underlines are drawn such that adjacent underlines get connected
15:12:43 <aphillip> ... so <u></u><u></u> draws a single underline
15:12:53 <aphillip> ... but some CJK uses make a problem
15:12:55 <kennyluck> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Dec/thread.html#msg102 CJK use of underline
15:13:02 <aphillip> ... above link is an example
15:13:29 <aphillip> ... since there are no spaces in CJK text, they more often encounter the problem
15:13:56 <aphillip> ... especially a problem with huperlinks
15:14:25 <aphillip> kenny: interesting progress on vertical text in chrome
15:14:33 <David> zakim, mute me
15:14:33 <Zakim> David should now be muted
15:14:43 <aphillip> richard: ruby spec news
15:15:01 <aphillip> ... sent email to CSS asking if could publish as WD instead of CR
15:15:06 <aphillip> ... got comments back
15:15:15 <aphillip> ... CSS may not have picked up as a topic today
15:16:10 <kennyluck> q+
15:16:15 <Norbert> zakim, unmute me
15:16:15 <Zakim> Norbert should no longer be muted
15:16:16 <aphillip> Addison: "U" extention to BCP 47 published
15:16:19 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2010OctDec/0096.html
15:16:29 <aphillip> ... RFC 6067
15:17:08 <kennyluck> q-
15:17:18 <kennyluck> me q?
15:17:41 <fsasaki> q+
15:18:34 <aphillip> ... en-US-u-calendar-gregorian
15:18:53 <aphillip> s/calendar/ca
15:19:03 <aphillip> s/greogorian/gregori
15:19:24 <r12a> ACTION: Richard to change the language tags article to say that now there is an extension defined, and describe it briefly
15:19:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Change the language tags article to say that now there is an extension defined, and describe it briefly [on Richard Ishida - due 2010-12-15].
15:19:38 <kennyluck> q+
15:20:02 <aphillip> ack fsasaki
15:20:29 <aphillip> felix: should validators handle extensions?
15:20:55 <r12a> zakim, mute richard
15:20:55 <Zakim> Richard should now be muted
15:21:30 <r12a> zakim, unmute richard
15:21:30 <Zakim> Richard should no longer be muted
15:21:50 <kennyluck> aphillip: Well-formedness is not a question.
15:22:01 <kennyluck> s/question/problem/
15:22:30 <kennyluck> r12a: Do you need to validate the extention?
15:22:41 <fsasaki> here are some examples of what the html5 validator does currently with language tags: http://tinyurl.com/33lhk4p
15:22:44 <kennyluck> aphillip: Not necessary. But you can do it.
15:23:19 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: check on HTML5 language tag validator and send any comments
15:23:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Check on HTML5 language tag validator and send any comments [on Addison Phillips - due 2010-12-15].
15:23:33 <aphillip> q?
15:23:37 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:23:55 <fsasaki> aphillip: you can send the comments to me - I created the bcp 47 patch for the validator
15:24:55 <r12a> felix, is deprecated in "The language tag zh-yue is deprecated" correct?  I think it's just not recommended.
15:25:15 <fsasaki> richard, the registry says deprecated, IIRC
15:25:44 <fsasaki> the validator just reads the registry and validates based on htat
15:25:49 <fsasaki> s/htat/that/
15:26:14 <aphillip> Topic: Bidi Status
15:26:58 <aphillip> Topic: trackbot
15:27:17 <aphillip> richard: explains all about trackbot
15:27:22 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/
15:27:24 <aphillip> ... other groups use it
15:27:38 <aphillip> ... above link is main page for our trackbot
15:27:47 <aphillip> .. tracks issues and action items
15:27:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:28:04 <aphillip> richard: bottom of page has link to tracker doc
15:28:10 <aphillip> ... linked to this IRC channel
15:28:19 <aphillip> .. and to public-i18n-core list
15:28:49 <aphillip> ... change actions here in IRC or via email
15:29:06 <aphillip> richard: can we use to replace tables for review comments?
15:29:12 <aphillip> ... need to investigate
15:29:22 <aphillip> ... initial email propagation may be an issue
15:29:32 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
15:30:23 <aphillip> ... another issue might be that our Issue-43 might conflict with (say) someone else's issue-43
15:30:31 <aphillip> ... there are ways to deal with that
15:30:48 <kennyluck> q+
15:30:49 <Zakim> +matial
15:30:53 <aphillip> ... such as prefixing with group id (e.g. I18N-ISSUE-43)
15:31:01 <aphillip> ack keenyluck
15:31:18 <aphillip> kennyluck: think the table is nice
15:31:22 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:31:35 <aphillip> richard: can still have tables
15:31:41 <aphillip> ... but it's a big maintenance headache
15:31:51 <aphillip> ... especially for this "RI" person
15:31:55 <aphillip> :-)
15:32:23 <aphillip> richard: also subject header changes in email threads cause thread to get lost
15:33:00 <aphillip> richard: would have one issue for every comment
15:33:09 <aphillip> ... can assign issues to "products" (spec)
15:33:53 <aphillip> richard: one potential problem is with individual vs. WG comments
15:33:59 <kennyluck> q+
15:34:08 <aphillip> ... so might need to look into that
15:34:19 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:35:49 <aphillip> Topic: Bopomofo
15:36:19 <aphillip> richard: something holding up CSS3 Ruby
15:36:27 <aphillip> ... not clear on how bopomofo works
15:36:31 <aphillip> ... so to try to help that
15:36:42 <aphillip> ... have written blog post that I'll update as I get more info
15:36:46 <aphillip> ... here:
15:36:48 <r12a> http://rishida.net/blog/?p=494
15:37:05 <aphillip> richard: trying to gather in one place how bopomofo ruby works
15:37:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:37:31 <aphillip> richard: sent email asing CSS and our WG for more info and to look it over
15:37:36 <aphillip> s/asing/asking/
15:37:54 <aphillip> ... like to put this to rest after many years
15:37:59 <David> zakim, unmute me
15:37:59 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
15:38:02 <kennyluck> q+
15:38:21 <aphillip> david: surely there are some bopomofo experts?
15:38:26 <aphillip> richard: sent to public-cjk list
15:38:42 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:39:03 <aphillip> kennyluck: one special issue in bopomofo
15:39:14 <aphillip> ... "i" symbol
15:39:31 <aphillip> ... for historical reasons, no one knows why Unicode has it as vertical
15:39:51 <aphillip> ... horizontal version is vertical
15:40:05 <aphillip> ... but no one knows why it should ever be rendered that way
15:40:16 <freedom> it's vertical, 'cause it's a vertical one in GB code
15:41:04 <freedom> GB 2312, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GB_2312
15:41:34 <aphillip> addison: representative glyph in Unicode doesn't mean it cannot be rendered horizontally
15:41:46 <aphillip> richard: asking if we should comment on this?
15:44:54 <aphillip> Topic: UTR#20
15:45:20 <r12a> s/asking if we should/asking if kenny is asking if we should/
15:46:37 <aphillip> http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr20/
15:47:26 <aphillip> addison: summarizes
15:48:38 <aphillip> richard: should keep it as it is
15:48:50 <aphillip> ... can publish a new note easily
15:49:00 <aphillip> .. and we can update ours to match
15:49:08 <aphillip> norbert: there should be no separate versions
15:49:13 <aphillip> (general agreement)
15:50:52 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: convey to Unicode desire to keep UTR#20 as a joint publication with identical versions
15:50:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Convey to Unicode desire to keep UTR#20 as a joint publication with identical versions [on Addison Phillips - due 2010-12-15].
15:51:23 <kennyluck> agenda+ Followups
15:51:32 <aphillip> Topic: Followups
15:52:10 <aphillip> kennyluck: there was an action item to write about non-translate tag
15:52:14 <aphillip> ... report as HTML bug
15:52:27 <aphillip> felix: sent something to member list but didn't receive comments
15:52:39 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Nov/0001.html
15:55:00 <aphillip> everyone please comment for next time
15:55:31 <aphillip> ACTION: felix: nudge everyone to ensure everyone review non-translate email by next week
15:55:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Nudge everyone to ensure everyone review non-translate email by next week [on Felix Sasaki - due 2010-12-15].
15:55:43 <kennyluck> ACTION-1?
15:55:43 <trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Richard Ishida to ask fantasai what bits of CSS3 are most interested in being commented upon -- due 2010-12-10 -- CLOSED
15:55:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1
15:55:45 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
15:55:46 <kennyluck> q+
15:55:52 <aphillip> ack kennyluck
15:56:04 <kennyluck> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Dec/0005
15:56:32 <aphillip> fantasai's note on CSS3 says that all parts are active
15:56:49 <aphillip> ... so we need a plan to review all of CSS3 Text
15:57:27 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: update review radar and ping www-international seeking comments
15:57:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - Update review radar and ping www-international seeking comments [on Addison Phillips - due 2010-12-15].
15:58:50 <Zakim> -David
15:58:51 <Zakim> -aphillip
15:58:52 <Zakim> -kennyluck
15:58:53 <Zakim> -Norbert
15:58:55 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:58:55 <Zakim> -Felix
15:59:01 <Zakim> -Richard
15:59:07 <Zakim> -matial
16:00:00 <r12a> r12a has left #i18n
16:00:02 <Zakim> -freedom
16:00:04 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM has ended
16:00:05 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.466.aaaa, David, aphillip, [IPcaller], Felix, Norbert, Richard, kennyluck, freedom, matial
16:00:48 <aphillip> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:00:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:00:51 <aphillip> zakim, bye
16:00:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
16:00:57 <aphillip> RRSAgent, bye
16:00:57 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:00:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard to change the language tags article to say that now there is an extension defined, and describe it briefly [1]
16:00:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-irc#T15-19-24
16:00:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: check on HTML5 language tag validator and send any comments [2]
16:00:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-irc#T15-23-19
16:00:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: convey to Unicode desire to keep UTR#20 as a joint publication with identical versions [3]
16:00:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-irc#T15-50-52
16:00:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix: nudge everyone to ensure everyone review non-translate email by next week [4]
16:00:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-irc#T15-55-31
16:00:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: update review radar and ping www-international seeking comments [5]
16:00:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-i18n-irc#T15-57-27