21:57:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:57:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-html-a11y-irc
21:57:17 <janina> zakim, this will be 2119
21:57:17 <Zakim> ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
21:57:33 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
21:57:41 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
21:57:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
21:57:46 <janina> zakim, call janina
21:57:46 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
21:57:47 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)5:00PM has now started
21:57:48 <Zakim> +Janina
21:58:48 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
21:58:48 <janina> Chair:  John_Foliot
21:58:48 <janina> agenda: this
21:58:48 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe
21:58:48 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
21:58:49 <janina> agenda+ Candidate Formats Report http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Pros_Cons_Overview#Summary_o
21:58:51 <janina> agenda+ Poster Issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0054.html
21:58:53 <janina> agenda+ Strategy for Synchronizing binary alternative media
21:58:55 <janina> agenda+ Emerging Related Working Groups
21:58:56 <janina> agenda+ Other Business?
21:58:59 <janina> agenda+ Meeting Scheduling Through January 5
21:59:01 <janina> agenda+ be done
21:59:08 <janina>  zakim, next item
21:59:08 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
21:59:16 <janina> scribe: janina
21:59:24 <janina> zakim, next item
21:59:24 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, janina
21:59:32 <janina> zakim, close item 1
21:59:32 <Zakim> agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
21:59:33 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:59:34 <Zakim> 2. Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from janina]
22:00:07 <janina> zakim, next item
22:00:07 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
22:04:44 <Zakim> +Judy
22:04:57 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:07:04 <Judy> Judy has left #html-a11y
22:09:58 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:11:07 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
22:11:18 <Zakim> +Eric_Carlson
22:12:08 <frankolivier> frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
22:14:06 <plh> plh has joined #html-a11y
22:14:14 <Zakim> +Plh
22:14:17 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
22:15:10 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
22:15:23 <JF> hello
22:15:42 <janina> we're here
22:17:03 <janina> zakim, next item
22:17:03 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Candidate Formats Report http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Pros_Cons_Overview#Summary_o" taken up [from janina]
22:17:33 <Judy> Judy has changed the topic to: Agenda is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0108.html
22:19:46 <janina> jf: Concerned whether concerns expressed in email have been captured in this doc
22:20:11 <janina> jf: Seems Sean's changes are there
22:20:22 <janina> jf: Does seem there were changes made
22:20:59 <janina> jf: Seems Sean, Silvia, and Geoff have edited this doc
22:28:58 <janina> discussion whether correct characterization of ttml profiling is captured in the doc
22:29:32 <janina> ec: fairly confident that current wording reflect's Sean's view
22:32:50 <janina> ec: Strongly believe Sean's view is that the basic profile contains all we need.
22:34:44 <janina> jb: Aren't most formats tricky to author? Is WebSRT easy to author?
22:34:47 <janina> ec: Yes, easy
22:35:34 <janina> jf: Feel authoring by hand is a red herring
22:35:42 <janina> jf: Good tools are available.
22:36:29 <janina> ec: There are strong opinions to the contrary as well, though. Just pointing out that people strongly diverge on this.
22:39:22 <janina> jf: Any reason not to move this forward with the proviso that it's still open to additional input?
22:40:04 <janina> jb: So, we know that Sean, Silvia, and Geoff have edited the doc, and have met their obligations to get this done
22:40:36 <janina> jb: Only remaining concern is that we have email saying Paul Cotton would join the call to speak to this. Perhaps he will still come.
22:40:57 <janina> jb: Does anyone object to moving this forward?
22:41:02 <janina> no objection heard
22:41:15 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
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22:43:07 <janina> pc: Nothing to share on this doc.
22:43:54 <janina> jf: Shall we forward this doc?
22:44:07 <JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Pros_Cons_Overview
22:44:27 <Judy> +1
22:44:40 <janina> No objections. We'll forward this on.
22:44:56 <janina> Janina will forwrd.
22:45:10 <janina> zakim, next item
22:45:10 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Poster Issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0054.html" taken up [from janina]
22:49:41 <janina> ec: Spec asks poster to be shown until media is available
22:50:56 <janina> ec: spec doesn't mandate behavior -- webkit currently shows first frame of video whether or not autoplay is on
22:51:52 <janina> ec: I don't understand why page author should usedifferent ml for external poster vs first frame of video
22:52:29 <janina> jf: first frame of video is direct relation to video
22:52:35 <janina> ec: absolutely not--anything can go there
22:55:24 <janina> ec: why should there be different ml based on whether the poster is embedded?
22:56:12 <janina> js: asks for confirmation
22:56:29 <janina> ec: yes, whether external or first frame of video, ml should be the same. this is crucial
23:01:38 <janina> jb: we could use zindex
23:01:59 <janina> ec: but that's a different situation
23:02:09 <janina> jf: but that's what authors will do
23:02:24 <Zakim> -Plh
23:02:40 <janina> jf: we can say that's not the intent, but they will because they can
23:02:52 <janina> jf: my concern is that poster will be misunderstood
23:03:43 <janina> ec: so how do you ml? where it's the poster image that has nothing to do with the rest of the video?
23:03:55 <janina> jf: alt is the text on screen
23:06:49 <janina> jf: if there's confusion among people very close to this now, how will authors be less so?
23:07:15 <janina> jf: suggest either summary or aria-describedby most suitable
23:07:37 <janina> ec: excellent idea
23:07:50 <janina> jf: so that alt on video is unsupported ...
23:08:25 <janina> jf: so that we have all kinds of things inside the video elements -- tracks, poster etc.
23:08:33 <janina> jf: a poster element s child element of video
23:08:41 <paulc> I have to go to another meeting.
23:08:50 <janina> Thanks, Paul
23:08:52 <paulc> My apologies for arriving late and leaving early.
23:08:57 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
23:09:30 <janina> jf: all the supporting bits of the presentation are within the video tag
23:10:01 <janina> ec: terrible idea -- seems we won't agree
23:12:10 <janina> jf: it's self explanatory
23:12:25 <janina> jb: are there other opinions on this?
23:14:15 <janina> jb: it's certainly important to understand the user needs and then to line engineering up with that
23:14:49 <janina> ec: john, do you think having different ml would not be confusing?
23:16:12 <Judy> agenda?
23:16:40 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
23:16:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, Judy, [Microsoft], Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot
23:16:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see paulc, JF, frankolivier, Judy, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, MikeSmith, oedipus_away, trackbot, sideshow
23:17:51 <janina> No
23:19:06 <Judy> rrsagent, do not start a new log
23:21:12 <janina> jf: so video should take alt?
23:21:14 <janina> ec: no
23:21:44 <janina> ec: only that textual description of the element should be there however the image is rendered--whether the image is embedded or a separate file
23:22:41 <Zakim> +Eric_Carlson.a
23:22:49 <Zakim> -Eric_Carlson
23:23:06 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
23:23:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, Judy, [Microsoft], John_Foliot, Eric_Carlson.a
23:23:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see paulc, JF, frankolivier, Judy, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, MikeSmith, oedipus_away, trackbot, sideshow
23:24:36 <janina> jf: we need to tell authors that first frame is treated the same way as an external jpg or png
23:25:10 <janina> ec: not an image element
23:25:13 <janina> jf: but an image file
23:26:09 <janina> ec: describing the poster isn't enough, we need the video described too
23:30:49 <janina> jf: don't know how to answer this any further at this point ...
23:31:52 <janina> ec: poster as first frame will be very common
23:32:10 <janina> jf: don't think that's the only scenario
23:36:20 <Zakim> -Eric_Carlson.a
23:36:22 <Zakim> -Judy
23:36:22 <Zakim> -Janina
23:36:24 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
23:36:26 <janina> zakim, bye
23:36:26 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Janina, Judy, [Microsoft], Eric_Carlson, Plh, John_Foliot
23:36:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
23:36:33 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
23:36:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
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