IRC log of CSS on 2010-12-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:10:49 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/08-CSS-irc
16:10:55 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
16:10:55 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 50 minutes
16:11:00 [glazou]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:17:59 [glazou]
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16:27:03 [karl]
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16:30:43 [glazou]
salut karl
16:31:30 [gsnedders]
Also, Iw00t for Java
16:34:22 [karl]
bonjour daniel
16:34:43 [freedom]
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16:34:56 [gsnedders]
Uh, wrong channel
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16:55:18 [glazou]
Zakim, code ?
16:55:18 [Zakim]
the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), glazou
16:55:31 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
16:55:38 [Zakim]
+glazou
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+plinss_
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16:58:40 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:58:52 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
16:59:09 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.a]
16:59:19 [arronei]
Zakim, microsoft has me
16:59:19 [Zakim]
+arronei; got it
17:00:09 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
17:00:26 [johnjan]
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17:00:35 [johnjan]
zakim, microsoft is johnjan
17:00:35 [Zakim]
+johnjan; got it
17:01:14 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
17:01:20 [szilles]
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+fantasai
17:01:29 [Zakim]
+??P27
17:01:37 [Zakim]
+David_Baron
17:01:48 [kojiishi]
zakim, ??p27 is me
17:01:48 [Zakim]
+kojiishi; got it
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+smfr
17:03:09 [ChrisL]
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17:03:20 [Zakim]
+SteveZ
17:03:46 [glazou]
np
17:04:19 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
17:06:06 [fantasai]
ScribeNick: fantasai
17:06:22 [fantasai]
glazou: One extra agenda item from ChrisL
17:06:25 [fantasai]
glazou: anything else?
17:06:35 [fantasai]
Topic: css3-background
17:07:01 [ChrisL]
zakim, who is here?
17:07:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see glazou, plinss_, johnjan, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft], fantasai, kojiishi, David_Baron, smfr, SteveZ, ChrisL
17:07:08 [Zakim]
johnjan has arronei
17:07:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ChrisL, smfr, szilles, johnjan, kojiishi, plinss_, dbaron, krijnh, karl, glazou, RRSAgent, Zakim, nimbupani, kennyluck, anne, arronei, jdaggett, plinss, CSSWG_LogBot,
17:07:15 [Zakim]
... shepazu, jgraham, oyvind, fantasai, gsnedders, trackbot, Bert, Hixie
17:07:30 [fantasai]
glazou: What is the status of css3-background?
17:07:45 [fantasai]
fantasai: I don't know.
17:08:26 [fantasai]
glazou: Were there comments from other WGs that weren't responded to?
17:08:39 [fantasai]
fantasai: Not that I know of. Certainly not from PFWG -- those were responded to.
17:09:02 [fantasai]
ChrisL summarizes
17:09:10 [Zakim]
+Bert
17:09:39 [fantasai]
ChrisL: We have a timeline of what happened posted to our WG list, but nothing has been communicated to PFWG yet.
17:10:04 [fantasai]
Bert: I see that fantasai already added the issue to the DoC
17:10:12 [fantasai]
Bert: I don't have a date yet for the telecon with the director.
17:10:23 [fantasai]
Bert: I'm not sure what else we do?
17:10:42 [fantasai]
glazou: If we have nothing to do that's fine, I just wanted a short report.
17:10:57 [fantasai]
ChrisL: I was saying, we have our story straight, but we haven't communicated back to WAI-PF
17:11:07 [howcome]
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17:11:37 [fantasai]
Bert: So sounds like we should have a resolution to affirm fantasai's response
17:11:44 [ChrisL]
yes lets clarify the official position
17:11:46 [fantasai]
ACTION Daniel: send response
17:11:46 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Daniel
17:11:46 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dglazman, dweck2)
17:11:57 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: fantasai's reply is official
17:12:42 [dbaron]
fantasai: Does this mean that every time PFWG sends a comment, if my response is a clarifying question to them, do we need a group resolution that the response is official?
17:13:09 [fantasai]
fantasai: So we need a WG resolution to ask such-and-such a question?
17:13:47 [Zakim]
+howcome
17:13:51 [fantasai]
Bert: Yes.
17:14:12 [fantasai]
ChrisL notes that Tracker can now have cross-wg issues
17:14:46 [ChrisL]
got a link to the timeline?
17:15:17 [fantasai]
Topic: WOFF LC
17:15:17 [dbaron]
Topic: WOFF
17:15:21 [glazou]
http://www.w3.org/TR/WOFF/
17:15:28 [fantasai]
ChrisL: LC on WOFF
17:15:39 [fantasai]
ChrisL: We have tried to keep WOFF orthogonal with CSS
17:15:52 [fantasai]
ChrisL: But it would be nice to get comments from someone in this WG not on the Fonts WG
17:16:02 [fantasai]
ChrisL: Even if the comment is "no comment"
17:16:12 [fantasai]
ACTION Daniel: review WOFF
17:16:12 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Daniel
17:16:12 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. dglazman, dweck2)
17:16:35 [Bert]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2010OctDec/0295.html Fantasai's timeline of the WAI issue
17:16:58 [ChrisL]
trackbot, status
17:17:02 [glazou]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/progress/
17:17:07 [fantasai]
ACTION glazman: review WOFF
17:17:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-278 - Review WOFF [on Daniel Glazman - due 2010-12-15].
17:17:23 [fantasai]
Topic: Progress Events
17:17:28 [fantasai]
glazou: LC comments due Jan 13
17:17:34 [fantasai]
http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/progress/
17:17:45 [ChrisL]
action: glazman to send response to WAI PF
17:17:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-279 - Send response to WAI PF [on Daniel Glazman - due 2010-12-15].
17:17:49 [fantasai]
ACTION everyone: review and send comments on WebAPI Progress Events draft
17:17:49 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - everyone
17:17:58 [fantasai]
Topic: CSS2.1 Test Suite
17:18:11 [fantasai]
glazou: Chris, I saw you sent a message about Prince an hour ago
17:18:26 [sylvaing]
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17:18:31 [fantasai]
ChrisL: I ran all the paged media tests and the tests that don't have two passes
17:18:35 [fantasai]
ChrisL: About 250 tests
17:18:45 [fantasai]
glazou: Excellent work.
17:19:04 [fantasai]
s/glazou/howcome/
17:19:36 [howcome]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2010Dec/0117.html
17:20:06 [fantasai]
fantasai: I still haven't made it through all the issues reported against the test suite
17:20:11 [glazou]
http://test.csswg.org/harness/results?s=CSS21_%HTML_RC3&t=0&f[]=1&f[]=4&f[]=8&f[]=16
17:20:22 [fantasai]
fantasai: It's the only thing I'm working on, though, so I can't go any faster...
17:20:55 [fantasai]
howcome: Chris's results haven't been imported yet
17:22:35 [danielweck]
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17:22:45 [fantasai]
Peter: ChrisL, I sent you a link that shows the tests that are needed in the order that they're needed
17:23:13 [fantasai]
Peter: It's the same way as entering data for browsers, except it overrids the UA string to say it's Prince
17:23:42 [danielweck]
(Daniel enters the concall late: sorry, was stuck in traffic)
17:23:47 [glazou]
np danielweck
17:23:52 [plinss_]
http://test.csswg.org/harness/testcase?s=CSS21_HTML_RC3&u=435&o=1
17:24:00 [glazou]
Zakim, who is here?
17:24:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see glazou, plinss_, johnjan, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft], fantasai, kojiishi, David_Baron, smfr, SteveZ, ChrisL, Bert, howcome
17:24:00 [plinss_]
http://test.csswg.org/harness/testcase?s=CSS21_XHTML_RC3&u=435&o=1
17:24:02 [Zakim]
johnjan has arronei
17:24:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see danielweck, sylvaing, howcome, ChrisL, smfr, szilles, johnjan, kojiishi, plinss_, dbaron, krijnh, karl, glazou, RRSAgent, Zakim, nimbupani, kennyluck, anne, arronei,
17:24:06 [Zakim]
... jdaggett, plinss, CSSWG_LogBot, shepazu, jgraham, oyvind, fantasai, gsnedders, trackbot, Bert, Hixie
17:24:38 [fantasai]
Peter: If you use either of these to URLs, it will show tests in the order most needed for Prince.
17:25:16 [fantasai]
Peter: wrt broken lists in the page there, it's because the harness doesn't know there's one test suite with two formats
17:25:29 [fantasai]
Peter: It thinks there are two test suites, and I just had it allow wildcards in the test suite names
17:25:47 [fantasai]
Peter: Once I get reftest support in the harness, I'll work on that
17:26:41 [Zakim]
+??P9
17:27:02 [fantasai]
Peter: The harness says that 80 tests need additional results, and may or may not have two passes when we import Prince's results
17:27:14 [glazou]
Zakim, P9 is danielweck
17:27:14 [Zakim]
sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
17:27:22 [glazou]
Zakim, ?P9 is danielweck
17:27:23 [Zakim]
sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '?P9'
17:27:49 [danielweck]
Zakim, ??P9 is danielweck
17:27:49 [Zakim]
I already had ??P9 as danielweck, danielweck
17:28:02 [fantasai]
Peter: 26 tests with blocking failures means one or more engines need to fix their bugs to get passes
17:28:20 [glazou]
http://test.csswg.org/harness/results?s=CSS21_HTML_RC3&t=0&f[]=1&f[]=4&f[]=8&f[]=16
17:28:44 [fantasai]
arron: Maybe we should do another RC just to get the updated tests out there
17:29:13 [fantasai]
fantasai: I can push another release out today. What's blocking me is fixing the rest of the tests.
17:29:27 [fantasai]
arronei: Let's just publish RC4, and fix the rest for RC5
17:30:26 [fantasai]
glazou: Question related to the schedule: Who is going to be away during the holiday season?
17:30:44 [szilles]
I will be away from the 22nd thru 3rd of Jan
17:30:44 [fantasai]
plinss_: HP officially shuts down from 22nd to Jan 3rd. I won't be going anywhere
17:30:54 [dbaron]
I'll be on the east coast for a bit, but will likely be able to call in.
17:31:24 [johnjan]
I'll be offline from the 20th - 3rd
17:32:06 [glazou]
right
17:32:12 [oyvind]
(I'll be offline, including 29th)
17:32:12 [sylvaing]
I'll be out Christmas week.
17:32:14 [fantasai]
arronei: I'm going to be around until the end of the year, so should be able to address any MS comments
17:32:26 [fantasai]
arronei: Will do impl report with new RC soon as well
17:32:45 [fantasai]
ACTION fantasai: publish RC4 asap, push remaining fixes to RC5
17:32:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-280 - Publish RC4 asap, push remaining fixes to RC5 [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-12-15].
17:33:06 [Bert]
I'm unavailable on 22 and 29, and almost certainly also on 5.
17:34:04 [fantasai]
Telecon cancelled on the 29th
17:34:18 [fantasai]
howcome: I had an action point to look into a test
17:34:23 [fantasai]
howcome: first-page-selectors-003
17:34:26 [howcome]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Nov/0421.html
17:34:51 [fantasai]
howcome: It would be good to resolve whether it is valid
17:34:57 [fantasai]
howcome: It's not clear right now.
17:35:02 [fantasai]
howcome: We may want it to be valid
17:35:10 [fantasai]
howcome: But we'd have to change the spec slightly
17:35:27 [fantasai]
howcome: Question is if you force a break before the first page, is the first actual page selected by :first?
17:36:08 [fantasai]
oyvind thinks the first page that is not printed should match :first
17:36:18 [fantasai]
howcome: It's more useful if you select something that's there.
17:36:58 [fantasai]
howcome: I think it makes more sense to select the first thing that's printed
17:37:10 [fantasai]
howcome: But if we are to do that, we probably need to change CSS2.1
17:37:21 [oyvind]
I have no strong opinions on what it should match, but I think the spec needs to be clarified
17:37:29 [fantasai]
fantasai: It would be a clarification -- the spec right now is quite vague
17:38:06 [fantasai]
fantasai: This was certainly the intent in CSS3 Paged Media. There is no other way to specify whether the first page is a left or right page
17:38:52 [fantasai]
johnjan: I'd like a day or two to make sure Alex is comfortable with it
17:39:34 [fantasai]
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/page.html#page-selectors
17:40:18 [fantasai]
howcome: What we're putting here is really a hack to say whether the first page is :left or :right
17:42:07 [fantasai]
Bert: I've used forced page breaks to create a blank first page
17:43:16 [fantasai]
fantasai: We could leave this undefined for 2.1
17:43:32 [fantasai]
glazou: Both interpretations are useful; but we have to pick one
17:43:43 [fantasai]
howcome: I think we might have trouble finding implementations
17:44:16 [fantasai]
arronei: They all currently fail
17:44:46 [fantasai]
RESOLVED: Make it undefined whether forced break before first page creates a :first page or a blank page
17:44:52 [fantasai]
ACTION fantasai: Propose wording
17:44:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-281 - Propose wording [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-12-15].
17:45:32 [fantasai]
glazou: Anything else we can do on 2.1?
17:46:10 [fantasai]
ACTION fantasai: move page-selector-003 and page-selector-004 to css3-page TS
17:46:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-282 - Move page-selector-003 and page-selector-004 to css3-page TS [on Elika Etemad - due 2010-12-15].
17:46:23 [fantasai]
Topic: Gradients
17:46:36 [fantasai]
glazou: Can anyone summarize? Are we reaching a consensus?
17:46:55 [fantasai]
Simon: I think we have to have Tab here. I don't think we have agreement between Brad and Tab yet
17:47:13 [fantasai]
glazou: I read a few of the proposals, and some of them declared as simple and easy just scared me
17:47:54 [fantasai]
Simon: Tab has an advantage in that he has a spec. I don't quite understand Brad's propsal well enough to know whether I can implement it.
17:48:41 [fantasai]
Steve: We seem to be getting very complex in the backgrounds. Wouldn't it make more sense to generate images and be able to plug it in as a background.
17:48:49 [fantasai]
fantasai: we're doing that already ...?
17:49:16 [fantasai]
Simon: Backgrounds have more things to deal with, e.g. tiling
17:49:32 [fantasai]
Simon: If you rotate the image, do you also rotate the grid?
17:49:46 [fantasai]
Simon: Sounds complicated
17:50:20 [fantasai]
Steve: Tying the way images are processed to the way the grid is done seems like a problem.
17:50:27 [fantasai]
Simon: I don't think we're tying them together.
17:50:49 [fantasai]
...
17:51:10 [fantasai]
Simon: Rick was suggesting rotation as an alternate way to have angled gradients
17:51:55 [fantasai]
fantasai: The reason you want the angle information in the gradient itself is that it allows the gradient to be sized appropriately to the box
17:51:58 [fantasai]
Simon: I agree
17:52:02 [fantasai]
Simon: ... mailing list
17:52:14 [fantasai]
glazou: Anything else to discuss in the 8 remaining minutes?
17:52:27 [Zakim]
-David_Baron
17:52:33 [fantasai]
Meeting closed.
17:52:35 [Zakim]
-smfr
17:52:36 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
17:52:36 [Zakim]
-SteveZ
17:52:37 [Zakim]
-johnjan
17:52:38 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.a]
17:52:39 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
17:52:39 [Zakim]
-glazou
17:52:40 [Zakim]
-danielweck
17:52:42 [Zakim]
-kojiishi
17:52:44 [Zakim]
-plinss_
17:52:58 [Zakim]
-Bert
17:53:01 [Zakim]
-fantasai
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18:05:00 [Zakim]
disconnecting the lone participant, howcome, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
18:05:03 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
18:05:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were glazou, plinss_, arronei, johnjan, [Microsoft], fantasai, David_Baron, kojiishi, smfr, SteveZ, ChrisL, Bert, howcome, danielweck
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