IRC log of html-a11y on 2010-12-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:59:44 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
19:59:46 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
19:59:46 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be 2119
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
19:59:49 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
19:59:49 [trackbot]
Date: 06 December 2010
20:00:10 [richardschwerdtfe]
meeting: W3C HTML Canvas Accessibility meeting
20:00:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
chair: Rich
20:00:52 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(A11Y)3:00PM has now started
20:00:59 [Zakim]
20:01:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
meeting: make log public
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20:01:57 [Zakim]
20:02:10 [Zakim]
20:02:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
20:02:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
scribe: Rich
20:03:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
Topic: 2D API update for caret and selection
20:03:55 [Downchuck]
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20:07:37 [richardschwerdtfe]
Action: Rich review Charles draft of the canvas 2D API
20:07:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-91 - Review Charles draft of the canvas 2D API [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2010-12-13].
20:08:29 [richardschwerdtfe]
Topic: Zooming
20:09:19 [richardschwerdtfe]
david: I am not sure if the real issue is about privacy or the author doing the wrong thing
20:09:43 [richardschwerdtfe]
david: they need to be gently shown what the award is and how it outweighs the list
20:10:07 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: Robert did come up with a solution that fits within the specifications
20:10:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: this will make things slower
20:10:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: Robert said it was quick to code.
20:10:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
david: have you had any further discussion
20:11:10 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: Mozilla internally had made this policy decision a while ago
20:11:35 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: the data is actually exposed and you have to do nasty hacks to get it.
20:11:53 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: I can't get past the fact that they want to make it difficult
20:12:13 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: they don't appear to want to address it
20:12:23 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: I have the same issue in webkit
20:12:36 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: g
20:12:43 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: Google wants the standard
20:12:55 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: If Mozilla won't engage they won't comply
20:13:12 [richardschwerdtfe]
david: was there any discussion prior to the canvas context
20:13:22 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: I believe so.
20:13:54 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: we seem stuck
20:14:04 [richardschwerdtfe]
david: I will see them in person next week
20:14:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
david: if you want me to deal with this quickly I can deal with internally now.
20:14:40 [Zakim]
20:14:48 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: it would be good to not to have to hack this
20:14:56 [frankolivier]
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20:15:08 [davidb]
s/me to deal with this/me to contact them
20:15:22 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: I would like to see the mIcrosoft solution in webkit as well
20:15:37 [Downchuck]
hi frank
20:16:17 [richardschwerdtfe]
hi Frank
20:16:58 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: I can't do the hack on Webkit. When sidebars go in I am stuck on webkit.
20:17:07 [frankolivier]
Hello all
20:17:11 [richardschwerdtfe]
Hi Frank
20:17:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
20:17:31 [richardschwerdtfe]
we are going to get to editing in a minute
20:18:10 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: they need to give more credence to accessibility experts on this.
20:18:16 [davidb]
s/they need to be gently shown/they want to be shown
20:19:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: IE provides the logical DPI to JavaScript developers
20:19:41 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: on the list they said it was unnecessary to have both X and Y scaling. Is there a use case for X and Y scaling?
20:19:51 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: this was in IE 6
20:20:03 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: I could not find internal documentation
20:20:22 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: I could not see why we would have non-square pixels on the device.
20:21:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
Topic: ApI for getting selection, grammar, and spell checking ranges
20:22:44 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: there was a concern over exposing the language as a privacy issue
20:23:00 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: If you have a custom dictionary you would not want to expose that to web pages
20:23:25 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: it is easy for the web page to identify my private dictionary
20:23:48 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: it occurs to me that when browsing icognito ...
20:23:58 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: this is most acute in private mode.
20:24:09 [richardschwerdtfe]
frank: this is a general problem in the HTML spec.
20:24:27 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: you can actually get a pretty unique fingerprint of those browsing the web
20:25:24 [davidb]
david: agree
20:25:58 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: we could simply create elements for the <canvas>, <spell>, <grammar>
20:26:39 [richardschwerdtfe]
<spell> foob </spell>
20:27:14 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: this could allow the web author the page outside the user's dictionary
20:27:29 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: this only says this range is misspelled
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20:28:01 [davidb]
i have to go
20:28:05 [Zakim]
20:28:08 [Downchuck]
happy fridge day
20:29:02 [Downchuck]
20:29:43 [richardschwerdtfe]
frank: so, the author would have to keep track of visually where the stuff was on the screen
20:29:56 [richardschwerdtfe]
frank: no platform convention
20:32:36 [richardschwerdtfe]
Action: Rich write a high level write up of the use of elements to annotate the canvas subtree to support caret, spell and grammar checkers
20:32:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-92 - Write a high level write up of the use of elements to annotate the canvas subtree to support caret, spell and grammar checkers [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2010-12-13].
20:33:48 [richardschwerdtfe]
Topic: Restricting elements used in the canvas subtree
20:34:47 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: Charles is suggesting that we not initialize certain elements in the canvas subtree like IFrame
20:34:49 [Downchuck]
Descendant elements which require initialization (e.g. img and iframe) MUST NOT be activated during page load.
20:34:56 [frankolivier]
<ZZZ> Descendant elements which require initialization (e.g. img and iframe) shall not be initialized on page load. </ZZZ>
20:35:02 [richardschwerdtfe]
20:35:38 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: I think we would need to be more crisp on IFrame
20:36:08 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: I think IFrame is kind of handled strange by other browsers
20:36:20 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: Perhaps writing more would be helpful
20:36:47 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: we could say we support the Iframe but the source would be null
20:36:52 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: what is the security issue
20:37:04 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: People override IFrame
20:37:10 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: quick jacking
20:37:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: this would be like an IFrame not actually attached to the DOM
20:37:46 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: where is this discussed
20:37:56 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: wwdom and whatwg - not exactly sure
20:38:29 [richardschwerdtfe]
charles: I don't like the idea of getting rid of the src="" ... the data may actually be useful like the image source
20:40:03 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: do you think you can improve the language?
20:40:08 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: yes
20:40:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: we need to support something like image with a src we do not want to break it
20:41:11 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: will dig into IFrame
20:43:04 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: I had one question regarding the test I sent
20:43:27 [richardschwerdtfe]
Charles: when I hit the space bar on a checkbox it sent a mouse event with the coordinates that were off screen
20:43:49 [richardschwerdtfe]
Frank: I am looking at it now. Please send me a note of what you found
20:44:25 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: when do you all go on vacation?
20:45:05 [richardschwerdtfe]
Rich: Last meeting in 2010 will be on December 13
20:45:14 [Zakim]
20:45:17 [Zakim]
20:45:23 [richardschwerdtfe]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:45:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate richardschwerdtfe
20:45:32 [richardschwerdtfe]
RRSAgent, make log public
20:45:38 [richardschwerdtfe]
Zakim, bye
20:45:38 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were richardschwerdtfe, David_Bolter, Charles_Pritchard, [Microsoft]
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20:45:44 [richardschwerdtfe]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:45:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate richardschwerdtfe
20:55:38 [richardschwerdtfe]
meeting: W3C HTML Canvas Accessibility Subteam
20:55:45 [richardschwerdtfe]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:55:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate richardschwerdtfe
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