17:36:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:36:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc
17:36:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:36:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
17:36:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
17:36:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
17:36:18 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17:36:18 <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2010
17:37:02 <JAllan> Chair: Jim Allan, Kelly Ford
17:37:03 <JAllan> Agenda+ Publishing working draft
17:37:05 <JAllan> Agenda+ questions to ask for feedback on WD
17:37:06 <JAllan> Agenda+ Discuss strategy to get us to last call/final document review
17:37:08 <JAllan> Agenda+ Discuss editor’s notes from current UAAG draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/
17:37:09 <JAllan> Agenda+ Talk about Principle 2, Operable
17:37:12 <JAllan> Agenda+ Review proposals sent to list
17:37:13 <JAllan> Agenda+ Action Item Review
17:54:59 <Greg> Greg has joined #ua
17:57:50 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
17:58:36 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:58:43 <Zakim> +jallan
17:58:54 <kford> kford has joined #ua
17:59:41 <Zakim> + +1.425.895.aaaa
17:59:59 <Greg> zakim, aaaa is me
17:59:59 <Zakim> +Greg; got it
18:00:02 <Zakim> +Jeanne
18:01:02 <sharper> sharper has joined #ua
18:01:16 <sharper> zakim, code?
18:01:16 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), sharper
18:02:23 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
18:03:11 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
18:03:17 <JAllan> regrets: Markhakkinen
18:03:22 <kford> zakim, microsoft is kford
18:03:22 <Zakim> +kford; got it
18:03:35 <Zakim> +??P3
18:03:38 <sharper> zakim, ??P3 is sharper
18:03:38 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
18:06:27 <jeanne> zakim, who is here?
18:06:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see jallan, Greg, Jeanne, kford, sharper
18:06:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see KimPatch, sharper, kford, jeanne, Greg, Zakim, RRSAgent, JAllan, trackbot
18:07:05 <JAllan> kim, are you going to join the call?
18:07:42 <kford> Scribe: kford
18:07:51 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
18:07:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html kford
18:08:02 <kford> zakim, agenda
18:08:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', kford
18:08:07 <kford> zakim, agenda ?
18:08:09 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
18:08:11 <Zakim> 1. Publishing working draft [from JAllan]
18:08:13 <Zakim> 2. questions to ask for feedback on WD [from JAllan]
18:08:16 <Zakim> 3. Discuss strategy to get us to last call/final document review [from JAllan]
18:08:19 <Zakim> 4. Discuss editor’s notes from current UAAG draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/ [from JAllan]
18:08:21 <Zakim> 5. Talk about Principle 2, Operable [from JAllan]
18:08:22 <Zakim> 6. Review proposals sent to list [from JAllan]
18:08:23 <Zakim> 7. Action Item Review [from JAllan]
18:08:24 <Zakim> + +1.617.325.aabb
18:09:23 <kford> zakim, take up item 1
18:09:23 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Publishing working draft" taken up [from JAllan]
18:09:50 <kford> JS: Number of items related to working draft.
18:10:04 <JAllan> current draft at http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/#gl-keyboard-access
18:10:46 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101130/
18:10:47 <kford> JS: asked people to approve draft and it resulted in conversatons on summaries.
18:11:19 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/WD-UAAG20-20101130/
18:11:20 <kford> s/conversatons/conversations
18:11:30 <kford> rrsagent, amke minutes
18:11:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'amke minutes', kford.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:11:42 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
18:11:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html kford
18:11:55 <kford> JS: I put summaries in for now so we can see what they are like.
18:12:02 <John> John has joined #ua
18:12:34 <kford> JS: Summaries list discussion about summaries.
18:12:49 <kford> That was summarizes.
18:13:07 <Zakim> +shayman
18:13:14 <kford> JS: Should we publish with summary or take it out?
18:13:36 <kford> JS: Or should we come to an agreement to call them something else or otherwise chane the name and publish.
18:13:53 <kford> JA: I like summary.  That's what they seem like to me.
18:14:04 <kford> JA: My only issue is that we don't have a summary for all of them?
18:15:24 <jeanne> RIM, Research in Motion - Blackberry
18:15:27 <JAllan> He is fro RIM
18:15:30 <John> thank you
18:15:40 <kford> Correct spelling of your name John, last name that is?
18:15:41 <JAllan> s/fro/from
18:16:03 <John> John S Lee from Research in Motion, I'm a technical advisor with the standards group
18:16:14 <kford> Group introduces themselves.
18:16:33 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
18:16:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html kford
18:19:53 <JAllan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/WD-UAAG20-20101130/
18:20:23 <kford> Group returns to discussion about summary.
18:20:26 <JAllan> +1
18:20:31 <kford> GL I think they are summaries.
18:20:38 <kford> Kim and Simon agree.
18:20:52 <kford> +1 here and say we can change later.
18:21:07 <kford> JS: What else do we want to have in the status.
18:21:35 <kford> JS: In this document the changes seem subtle.
18:23:24 <kford> KF: Didn't we add more implementation?
18:23:36 <kford> JS: Yes and that will go in that doc's status.
18:23:53 <kford> GL: We did renumbering, level changes and such.
18:24:59 <kford> JS: Last time we published was July. What are the big changes?
18:25:16 <kford> Group talks about focus as being rewritten?
18:26:28 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
18:26:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html kford
18:27:11 <kford> JS: Reads earlier status and questions.
18:28:10 <kford> JA: Group has not received a lot of feedback.
18:28:23 <kford> JA: Let's use some of our earlier questions.
18:28:55 <kford> GL: Talks about change from provide an option.
18:31:03 <JAllan> zakim, agenda?
18:31:03 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
18:31:04 <Zakim> 1. Publishing working draft [from JAllan]
18:31:06 <Zakim> 2. questions to ask for feedback on WD [from JAllan]
18:31:08 <Zakim> 3. Discuss strategy to get us to last call/final document review [from JAllan]
18:31:11 <Zakim> 4. Discuss editor’s notes from current UAAG draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/ [from JAllan]
18:31:16 <Zakim> 5. Talk about Principle 2, Operable [from JAllan]
18:31:19 <Zakim> 6. Review proposals sent to list [from JAllan]
18:31:21 <Zakim> 7. Action Item Review [from JAllan]
18:31:30 <jeanne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-uaag2-comments/2010Jul/0000.html
18:31:46 <kford> JS: We have a request from education and outreach on some editorial items plus short handles for items.
18:32:24 <jeanne> # UAAG 2.0 Guidelines
18:32:24 <jeanne>     * PRINCIPLE 1: Perceivable
18:32:24 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.1: Alternative content
18:32:24 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.2: Missing content
18:32:24 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.3: Highlighting
18:32:25 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.4: Text configuration
18:32:27 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.5: Volume configuration
18:32:29 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.6: Synthesized speech configuration
18:32:31 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.7: Style sheets configuration
18:32:33 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.8: Viewports
18:32:35 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.9: Focus
18:32:37 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.10: Source views
18:32:39 <jeanne>           o Guideline 1.11: Links
18:32:41 <jeanne>     * PRINCIPLE 2. Operable
18:32:43 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.1: Keyboard access
18:32:45 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.2: Event handlers
18:32:47 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.3: Time-independence
18:32:49 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.4: Flashing
18:32:51 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.5: Preference settings
18:32:53 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.6: Search.
18:32:55 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.7: Structured navigation.
18:32:57 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.8: Toolbar configuration.
18:32:59 <jeanne>           o Guideline 2.9: Media
18:33:01 <jeanne>     * PRINCIPLE 3: Understandable
18:33:03 <jeanne>           o Guideline 3.1: Unnecessary messages.
18:33:05 <jeanne>           o Guideline 3.2: Mistakes.
18:33:07 <jeanne>           o Guideline 3.3: Documentation
18:33:08 <jeanne>           o Guideline 3.4: Predictable
18:33:11 <jeanne>     * PRINCIPLE 4. Programmatic access
18:33:13 <jeanne>           o Guideline 4.1: Programmatic access
18:33:15 <jeanne>     * PRINCIPLE 5. Specifications and conventions
18:33:17 <jeanne>           o Guideline 5.1: Desktop apps
18:33:19 <jeanne>           o Guideline 5.2: Web & web apps
18:33:21 <jeanne>           o Guideline 5.3: Accessibility features
18:33:23 <jeanne>           o Guideline 5.4: Follow specifications
18:33:44 <jeanne> Existing ToC:  http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/WD-UAAG20-20101130/#toc
18:35:37 <kford> Group talks about having short handles for items.
18:36:17 <kford> GL: In general I think this is a good way to go.
18:38:41 <kford> Group is generally in favor of short handles presented by JS.
18:39:08 <kford> zakim, close item 1
18:39:08 <Zakim> agendum 1, Publishing working draft, closed
18:39:09 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:39:10 <Zakim> 2. questions to ask for feedback on WD [from JAllan]
18:39:20 <kford> zakim, close item 2
18:39:20 <Zakim> agendum 2, questions to ask for feedback on WD, closed
18:39:21 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:39:23 <Zakim> 3. Discuss strategy to get us to last call/final document review [from JAllan]
18:39:31 <kford> zakim, agenda?
18:39:31 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
18:39:33 <Zakim> 3. Discuss strategy to get us to last call/final document review [from JAllan]
18:39:36 <Zakim> 4. Discuss editor’s notes from current UAAG draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/ [from JAllan]
18:39:39 <Zakim> 5. Talk about Principle 2, Operable [from JAllan]
18:39:40 <Zakim> 6. Review proposals sent to list [from JAllan]
18:39:42 <Zakim> 7. Action Item Review [from JAllan]
18:39:52 <kford> zakim, take up item 3
18:39:52 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Discuss strategy to get us to last call/final document review" taken up [from JAllan]
18:40:39 <JAllan> kf: we have made progress. did more writing. have actions open. 
18:41:23 <JAllan> ... what are thoughts to get to last call...more writing meeting, small group writing, etc.
18:41:39 <JAllan> ...how to close things down better.
18:41:55 <JAllan> js: thinks we are very close.
18:42:40 <JAllan> Simon had suggested making the call 2 hours long
18:43:29 <JAllan> kf: get aggressive about getting right with action items and commitments through Dec.
18:43:47 <JAllan> ...then start locking down in Jan.
18:44:53 <JAllan> kp: had groups of 2 to get things done by end Dec.
18:45:20 <JAllan> ... is there a prize...motivator
18:46:53 <JAllan> ...concentrate on F2F items and open action items.
18:47:26 <JAllan> kf: for SC we had groups.
18:47:56 <JAllan> KF and JS had largest group
18:48:14 <JAllan> js is out next week (rest well)
18:49:53 <kford> zakim, close item 3
18:49:53 <Zakim> agendum 3, Discuss strategy to get us to last call/final document review, closed
18:49:55 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:49:56 <Zakim> 4. Discuss editor’s notes from current UAAG draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/ [from JAllan]
18:51:03 <kford> zakim, take up item 4
18:51:03 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Discuss editor’s notes from current UAAG draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/" taken up [from JAllan]
18:51:36 <kford> Group now talking about editor's notes?
18:51:48 <kford> JA: First one is on virtual worlds.
18:52:12 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/
18:52:29 <JAllan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/WD-UAAG20-20101130
18:54:20 <JAllan> KF: don't include. adds nothing.
18:54:59 <JAllan> js: SecondLife considers itself a UA. They asked us to include GL to help them.
18:56:30 <JAllan> GL: reader hits something confusing in the second sentence. 
18:56:48 <JAllan> kf: if we don't talk about it now, how and when.
18:58:42 <jeanne> action: jeanne to write a summary of issues on including Virtual Worlds into the document to discuss at the 16 December. 
18:58:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-470 - Write a summary of issues on including Virtual Worlds into the document to discuss at the 16 December.  [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-12-09].
18:59:11 <kford> Much disucssion about process.
18:59:56 <kford> Now talking about important eolements.
19:00:17 <kford> s/eolements/elements
19:01:50 <kford> S/disucssioN/DISCUSSION
19:02:57 <jeanne> ATAG Prominence definition -> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2010/ED-ATAG20-20101028/#def-Prominence
19:03:48 <kford> GL: We are asking for something pretty major here. Probably need to write up a more robust recommendation.
19:06:08 <kford> Group talks further about where this term is used in the document.
19:07:05 <kford> zakim, agenda?
19:07:05 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
19:07:07 <Zakim> 4. Discuss editor’s notes from current UAAG draft - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20101117/ [from JAllan]
19:07:09 <Zakim> 5. Talk about Principle 2, Operable [from JAllan]
19:07:11 <Zakim> 6. Review proposals sent to list [from JAllan]
19:07:13 <Zakim> 7. Action Item Review [from JAllan]
19:07:24 <kford> zakim, choose a victim
19:07:24 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jeanne
19:07:31 <JAllan> zakim, choose victim
19:07:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'choose victim', JAllan
19:07:33 <kford> chair: jim
19:07:42 <kford> Chair: Jim_allan
19:07:48 <kford> zakim, choose a victim
19:07:48 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose jallan
19:08:40 <kford> Action: MH to provide definition of time based media content
19:08:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-471 - Provide definition of time based media content [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2010-12-09].
19:08:52 <JAllan> action: jallan to define important elements 
19:08:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-472 - Define important elements  [on Jim Allan - due 2010-12-09].
19:09:08 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
19:09:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html kford
19:11:12 <kford> present: Greg, Jim, Kelly, Simon, John, Kim, Jeanne
19:11:53 <JAllan> action: jallan to move editors notes 2.9.12 to implementing document
19:11:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-473 - Move editors notes 2.9.12 to implementing document [on Jim Allan - due 2010-12-09].
19:12:11 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
19:12:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html kford
19:14:47 <kford> action: kford to figure out SC around editor's note on 3.1.
19:14:47 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kford
19:15:14 <kford> action: kf to figure out SC on editor's note around 3.1.
19:15:14 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - kf
19:15:59 <kford> action: JA to figure out SC around editor's note in 3.1 (belongs to kford).
19:15:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-474 - Figure out SC around editor's note in 3.1 (belongs to kford). [on Jim Allan - due 2010-12-09].
19:17:15 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
19:17:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html kford
19:18:08 <JAllan> action: simon to create definition of 'benefit accessibility' or reword all SC in GL 3.3
19:18:08 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - simon
19:18:08 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sharper, spieters)
19:18:24 <JAllan> action: sharper to create definition of 'benefit accessibility' or reword all SC in GL 3.3
19:18:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-475 - Create definition of 'benefit accessibility' or reword all SC in GL 3.3 [on Simon Harper - due 2010-12-09].
19:19:06 <Zakim> -kford
19:20:46 <JAllan> action: jallan to review EN on GL3.4 security...why, do we need it?
19:20:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-476 - Review EN on GL3.4 security...why, do we need it? [on Jim Allan - due 2010-12-09].
19:22:05 <JAllan> action: JS to remove editors note on 5.1 define 'non-web-based'
19:22:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-477 - Remove editors note on 5.1 define 'non-web-based' [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-12-09].
19:24:06 <JAllan> glossary editor notes. leave in for word not in document, but in glossary.
19:27:58 <JAllan> action: JS to move editors note on 'Profile', change wording to - Platform-independent profiles are useful for those who use the same user agent on different devices. 
19:27:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-478 - Move editors note on 'Profile', change wording to - Platform-independent profiles are useful for those who use the same user agent on different devices.  [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-12-09].
19:29:14 <Greg> I'll make a pass over the document trying to replace occurrences of the phrase global (as in "global settings") with something clearer.
19:29:52 <Greg> Action: Greg to make a pass over the document trying to replace occurrences of the phrase global (as in "global settings") with something clearer.
19:29:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-479 - Make a pass over the document trying to replace occurrences of the phrase global (as in "global settings") with something clearer. [on Greg Lowney - due 2010-12-09].
19:30:07 <Zakim> -shayman
19:30:09 <Zakim> - +1.617.325.aabb
19:30:22 <Zakim> -Jeanne
19:30:24 <Zakim> -Greg
19:30:27 <Zakim> -sharper
19:30:27 <JAllan> rrsagent, make minutes
19:30:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:30:38 <Zakim> -jallan
19:30:39 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
19:30:41 <Zakim> Attendees were jallan, +1.425.895.aaaa, Greg, Jeanne, kford, sharper, +1.617.325.aabb, shayman
19:31:39 <JAllan> zakim, please part
19:31:39 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
19:31:51 <JAllan> rrsagent, make minutes
19:31:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:32:28 <JAllan> rrsagent, please part
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-actions.rdf :
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeanne to write a summary of issues on including Virtual Worlds into the document to discuss at the 16 December.  [1]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T18-58-42
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MH to provide definition of time based media content [2]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-08-40
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jallan to define important elements  [3]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-08-52
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jallan to move editors notes 2.9.12 to implementing document [4]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-11-53
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kford to figure out SC around editor's note on 3.1. [5]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-14-47
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: kf to figure out SC on editor's note around 3.1. [6]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-15-14
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JA to figure out SC around editor's note in 3.1 (belongs to kford). [7]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-15-59
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: simon to create definition of 'benefit accessibility' or reword all SC in GL 3.3 [8]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-18-08
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: sharper to create definition of 'benefit accessibility' or reword all SC in GL 3.3 [9]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-18-24
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jallan to review EN on GL3.4 security...why, do we need it? [10]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-20-46
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JS to remove editors note on 5.1 define 'non-web-based' [11]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-22-05
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JS to move editors note on 'Profile', change wording to - Platform-independent profiles are useful for those who use the same user agent on different devices.  [12]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-27-58
19:32:28 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Greg to make a pass over the document trying to replace occurrences of the phrase global (as in "global settings") with something clearer. [13]
19:32:28 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/12/02-ua-irc#T19-29-52