IRC log of mediafrag on 2010-12-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/12/01-mediafrag-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be IA_MFWG
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ok, trackbot; I see IA_MFWG()5:00AM scheduled to start now
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Meeting: Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference
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Date: 01 December 2010
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IA_MFWG()5:00AM has now started
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+ +34.93.00.aaaa
10:02:05 [raphael]
Chair: Raphael, Erik
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Regrets: Davy
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Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Nov/0045.html
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Present: erik, raphael, foolip, tomayac, silvia, Yves
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Topic: 1. ADMIN
10:04:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:04:24 [Zakim]
+tomayac
10:04:54 [Zakim]
+Yves
10:05:21 [raphael]
Goal today is mainly to approve some text changes, /cc silvia foolip
10:06:03 [raphael]
Scribe: raphael
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Scribenick: raphael
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PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the last week telecon:
10:06:21 [raphael]
http://www.w3.org/2010/11/24-mediafrag-minutes.html
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10:06:31 [tomayac]
+1
10:06:31 [raphael]
+1
10:06:35 [Yves]
+1
10:06:35 [raphael]
minutes are approved
10:07:11 [raphael]
Call for HTML5 + WHATWG to comment on the spec
10:07:12 [raphael]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Nov/thread.html
10:07:17 [raphael]
http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-November/thread.html
10:07:23 [raphael]
no discussion
10:07:53 [raphael]
No comments either from indivudals requested
10:08:05 [raphael]
... should this block to us to go to CR?
10:08:17 [raphael]
Yves: no for CR stage, only at PR
10:08:28 [Yves]
also no omment is assent ;)
10:08:35 [Yves]
s/omment/comment/
10:08:46 [raphael]
Topic: 2. MEDIA FRAGMENT SPECIFICATION:
10:09:00 [raphael]
ACTION-192?
10:09:00 [trackbot]
ACTION-192 -- Davy Van Deursen to update the specification to state what the processing should do when media fragments request (time dimension) does not match exactly how the media item has been encoded -- due 2010-11-08 -- OPEN
10:09:00 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/192
10:09:04 [raphael]
close ACTION-192
10:09:05 [trackbot]
ACTION-192 Update the specification to state what the processing should do when media fragments request (time dimension) does not match exactly how the media item has been encoded closed
10:09:27 [raphael]
"When there is a mismatch between the SMPTE time code used by the UA and the encoding settings of the requested media resource (e.g., use of smpte-25 time code when the media resource is encoded at 30fps), the server MUST ignore the RANGE header and returns the whole resource (i.e., a 200). "
10:09:31 [raphael]
in section 6.2.5
10:10:04 [raphael]
Raphael: no objection for this change?
10:10:09 [raphael]
Yves: good
10:10:11 [tomayac]
none
10:10:24 [raphael]
ACTION-193?
10:10:24 [trackbot]
ACTION-193 -- Erik Mannens to make a schema for the server redirect recipe -- due 2010-11-08 -- OPEN
10:10:24 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/193
10:10:28 [raphael]
close ACTION-193
10:10:28 [trackbot]
ACTION-193 Make a schema for the server redirect recipe closed
10:10:43 [raphael]
See the figure in http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#server-triggered-redirect
10:11:22 [foolip]
ACTION-192 should also say what clients should do for #t=smpt:...
10:13:48 [raphael]
Raphael: there is a request with a fragment URI and a 30x response with another fragment in the header, which is the situation described in the latest TAG resolution, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2010Nov/0107.html
10:13:50 [Yves]
Note that if there is a redirect to a fragment, we should explain the precedence rules for the UA (once the content after the redirect is fetched, to have the right CT)
10:14:36 [Yves]
(actually in 5.2.1 Location have no hash, so no issue there)
10:14:44 [raphael]
Yves: actually, the location has no has, only the link, so it is ok
10:15:21 [raphael]
foolip, this is fully specified in the recipe, what do you think is missing?
10:15:50 [raphael]
... is mapping between smpte and bytes can be done on UA side, then recipe 5.1.1, otherwise, recipe 5.1.2
10:16:03 [raphael]
ACTION-194?
10:16:03 [trackbot]
ACTION-194 -- Raphaël Troncy to add an intro paragraph in the section 5 to explain which recipes is useful for which dimension -- due 2010-11-08 -- OPEN
10:16:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/194
10:16:10 [raphael]
close ACTION-194
10:16:10 [trackbot]
ACTION-194 Add an intro paragraph in the section 5 to explain which recipes is useful for which dimension closed
10:16:29 [raphael]
Read the first paragraph at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#media-fragment-processing
10:16:48 [raphael]
silvia, foolip, could you read this paragraph and states if you have objections
10:18:46 [raphael]
Yves: good, but we should add that this always happen in a particular context
10:18:52 [raphael]
... i.e., within a media element for example
10:18:54 [silvia]
hmm, is some of this not rather appropriate for the "implementation" section?
10:19:09 [raphael]
... so we hint that this is a media resource
10:19:11 [Yves]
all "recipes" may be applied only if the contex hints that it should be a video
10:19:17 [Yves]
(or media resource in general)
10:19:36 [raphael]
Silvia, I had an action to clarify which recipe is made for what ... and I use MAY as it is the most sensible option
10:19:36 [silvia]
what if it is just the browser url bar?
10:20:00 [raphael]
Silvia, then we go to 7.1 and your paragraph
10:20:26 [Yves]
regular download, however an UA might interrupt and use a recipe
10:20:28 [Zakim]
+Thomas
10:21:01 [raphael]
zakim, who is here?
10:21:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see raphael, tomayac, Yves, Thomas
10:21:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see homata, erik, Zakim, RRSAgent, tomayac, raphael, foolip, silvia, trackbot, Yves
10:21:08 [raphael]
zakim, Thomas is Erik
10:21:08 [Zakim]
+Erik; got it
10:21:27 [silvia]
Yves, so in the url bar, the browser would start downloading the resource without the fragment, then realize it is a media resource, then do byte ranges?
10:21:38 [Yves]
might
10:21:46 [silvia]
makes sense
10:23:09 [raphael]
ACTION-197?
10:23:09 [trackbot]
ACTION-197 -- Raphaël Troncy to also add in the intro of Section 5 a paragraph explaining the optimistic processing of fragments (using ranges in seconds) -- due 2010-11-09 -- OPEN
10:23:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/197
10:23:13 [raphael]
close ACTION-197
10:23:13 [trackbot]
ACTION-197 Also add in the intro of Section 5 a paragraph explaining the optimistic processing of fragments (using ranges in seconds) closed
10:23:27 [raphael]
Read the second paragraph at http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#media-fragment-processing
10:23:55 [raphael]
Yves: 1st paragraph should state that the MIME TYPE of the resource is known to be media
10:24:10 [raphael]
Raphael: 2n paragraph is when don't know yet, thus the optimization
10:24:36 [silvia]
exceptthe first 5.1.2 reference should be a 5.1.1 reference
10:24:49 [raphael]
Yves: change the "it is recommended" by a MAY
10:25:29 [raphael]
No silvia, we don't have any information about the resource ... no MIME type, no header
10:25:34 [raphael]
... impossible to do 5.1.1
10:26:19 [foolip]
My only issue is that OGG is spelled Ogg.
10:26:46 [raphael]
thanks foolip
10:26:51 [raphael]
so I will do these changes
10:27:11 [silvia]
as soon as the media element is set up, it is clear
10:27:45 [raphael]
ACTION-198?
10:27:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-198 -- Raphaël Troncy to edit section 7.1 for taking into account the cropping resolution -- due 2010-11-09 -- OPEN
10:27:45 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/198
10:27:50 [raphael]
close ACTION-198
10:27:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-198 Edit section 7.1 for taking into account the cropping resolution closed
10:28:11 [raphael]
Section 7.1: "For spatial URI fragments, the next section describes two distinct use cases, highlighting and cropping. HTML rendering clients are expected to implement cropping as the default rendering mechanism. "
10:29:03 [tomayac]
bummer, but makes sense from a "fragment" point of view
10:29:22 [raphael]
ACTION-199?
10:29:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-199 -- Raphaël Troncy to add a clarification text regarding the purpose of the grammar -- due 2010-11-24 -- OPEN
10:29:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/199
10:29:26 [raphael]
ACTION-200?
10:29:26 [trackbot]
ACTION-200 -- Raphaël Troncy to send a proposal to close ISSUE-19 that consists in: clarification text + normative parsing algorithm -- due 2010-11-24 -- OPEN
10:29:26 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/200
10:29:30 [Yves]
would be happy to remove any reference to "highlighting"
10:29:39 [raphael]
both pending for now, will be done after the telecon
10:29:46 [raphael]
ACTION-201?
10:29:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-201 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to write a paragraph, note to developers, that they can easily implement a javascript to forward the hash on the URI to the video element -- due 2010-11-24 -- OPEN
10:29:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/201
10:29:50 [raphael]
close ACTION-201
10:29:50 [trackbot]
ACTION-201 Write a paragraph, note to developers, that they can easily implement a javascript to forward the hash on the URI to the video element closed
10:30:05 [raphael]
New section in http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#media-fragment-webapps
10:30:17 [raphael]
Could you read what Silvia has written?
10:31:05 [Yves]
seems to be an example of what can be done, it should be marked as such (as it could be seen as being normative)
10:31:34 [silvia]
it is written under the condition that HTML5 media elements will support media fragment, btw
10:32:02 [raphael]
Raphael: the entire section is informative
10:32:09 [tomayac]
do we have a solution for setting 2 videos on a page to say the first 20secs in, and the second 30secs in?
10:32:32 [raphael]
No tomayac
10:32:35 [raphael]
should we?
10:32:40 [tomayac]
maybe
10:32:54 [silvia]
tomayac, I had an example for it, but I don't think it's necessary
10:33:20 [silvia]
if you have more than one video on a page, it's likely to be a gallery-type use case and fragments don't make much sense
10:33:39 [Yves]
it is not linked to media fragment, but how to send compound state to a js application that will put the mediafrag on the src elements
10:34:05 [Yves]
there is no direct relationship between a fragment on an html page and fragments on video elements within that page
10:34:10 [tomayac]
agreed. use case might be to set the thumbs (stills) appropriately
10:35:21 [silvia]
tomayac, that would require a temporal media fragment of no duration
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10:35:43 [raphael]
silvia, text is agreed, thanks!
10:35:51 [raphael]
ACTION-202?
10:35:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-202 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to draft the paragraph that the group will propose to HTML5 regarding how the control of media fragment URI should be done -- due 2010-12-01 -- OPEN
10:35:51 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/202
10:35:51 [tomayac]
yepp, basically was just wondering
10:36:03 [raphael]
Topic: HTML5 Bugg
10:36:08 [silvia]
let me call in for this one - it needs a discussion
10:36:11 [raphael]
silvia, did you this one?
10:36:29 [silvia]
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Video_Media_Fragments
10:37:13 [raphael]
ACTION: tomayac to build a media fragment URI parser in javascript
10:37:13 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - tomayac
10:37:25 [Zakim]
+silvia
10:37:25 [raphael]
ACTION: Thomas to build a media fragment URI parser in javascript
10:37:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-203 - Build a media fragment URI parser in javascript [on Thomas Steiner - due 2010-12-08].
10:38:15 [silvia]
please read above link for action 202
10:39:07 [raphael]
Raphael: I like it
10:40:05 [raphael]
foolip, could you read https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Video_Media_Fragments
10:40:27 [raphael]
... foolip, we want to use this to reopen HTML5 bug closed by Ian
10:41:48 [silvia]
at least to restart the discussion
10:42:12 [raphael]
ACTION-202?
10:42:12 [trackbot]
ACTION-202 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to draft the paragraph that the group will propose to HTML5 regarding how the control of media fragment URI should be done -- due 2010-12-01 -- OPEN
10:42:12 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/202
10:43:00 [raphael]
HTML5 bug is at: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10723
10:43:19 [raphael]
Silvia: I will complete this text and mail the list before re-opening the bug
10:43:28 [raphael]
... action is still pending
10:44:08 [silvia]
I want us to discuss - have we considered everything? is something missing?
10:44:47 [tomayac]
sounds ok after 2nd read
10:45:20 [silvia]
zakim, mute me
10:45:20 [Zakim]
silvia should now be muted
10:45:55 [raphael]
ACTION-173?
10:45:55 [trackbot]
ACTION-173 -- Yves Lafon to produce the code that will check the grammar of both the URI syntax and the Headers syntax -- due 2010-06-22 -- OPEN
10:45:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/173
10:46:44 [raphael]
Yves: the code is up to date with respect to the hours optional in npt format for the time dimension
10:46:48 [raphael]
close ACTION-173
10:46:48 [trackbot]
ACTION-173 Produce the code that will check the grammar of both the URI syntax and the Headers syntax closed
10:47:06 [raphael]
ACTION: yves to produce the code that will check the grammar of the Headers syntax
10:47:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-204 - Produce the code that will check the grammar of the Headers syntax [on Yves Lafon - due 2010-12-08].
10:47:23 [raphael]
Topic: 4. Use Cases
10:47:32 [raphael]
ACTIOn-168?
10:47:32 [trackbot]
ACTION-168 -- Davy Van Deursen to investigate how the automatic test suite could also be done for evaluating the UA behavior -- due 2010-06-02 -- OPEN
10:47:32 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/168
10:48:27 [raphael]
Raphael: I suggest we have dedicated telecon about test cases after CR transition
10:48:50 [raphael]
Raphael: I think once the few remaining spec edit are done, we should transition
10:49:12 [erik]
+1
10:49:26 [raphael]
Yves: we need to close all issues too
10:50:01 [raphael]
Raphael: goal is to have all ISSUE close by next week
10:50:12 [raphael]
... in order to make sure issuers are happy
10:50:16 [raphael]
... and transition to CR
10:50:29 [raphael]
Topic: 5. AOB
10:50:35 [tomayac]
n/a
10:50:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:51:25 [silvia]
thanks!
10:51:25 [Zakim]
-Yves
10:51:26 [Zakim]
-raphael
10:51:26 [Zakim]
-silvia
10:51:28 [Zakim]
-tomayac
10:51:28 [Zakim]
IA_MFWG()5:00AM has ended
10:51:30 [Zakim]
Attendees were +34.93.00.aaaa, raphael, tomayac, Yves, Erik, silvia
10:51:31 [raphael]
meeting adjourned
10:51:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:53:26 [raphael]
ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
10:53:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
10:54:34 [raphael]
s/Use Cases/Test Cases
10:54:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/12/01-mediafrag-minutes.html raphael
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