16:52:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdb2rdf
16:52:11 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-irc
16:52:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:52:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdb2rdf
16:52:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:52:15 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
16:52:16 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:52:16 <trackbot> Date: 23 November 2010
16:52:57 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
16:53:01 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Nov/0119.html
16:53:07 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:53:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:53:12 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:57:40 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
16:59:03 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:59:11 <Zakim> + +49.133.6.aaaa
16:59:19 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:59:23 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
16:59:27 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:59:27 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:59:30 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:59:31 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:59:46 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is boris 
16:59:46 <Zakim> +boris; got it
17:00:07 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #RDB2RDF
17:00:26 <mhausenblas> Zakim, pick a victim
17:00:26 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose boris
17:00:41 <mhausenblas> Zakim, pick another victim
17:00:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick another victim', mhausenblas
17:00:46 <mhausenblas> Zakim, pick a victim
17:00:46 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose MacTed (muted)
17:00:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:00:57 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
17:00:57 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
17:01:01 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
17:01:07 <mhausenblas> Zakim, IPcaller is juansequeda 
17:01:07 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
17:01:07 <juansequeda> Zakim, IPcaller is me
17:01:08 <Zakim> sorry, juansequeda, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
17:01:25 <mhausenblas> scribenick: MacTed 
17:01:34 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
17:01:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see boris, MacTed, mhausenblas, juansequeda
17:01:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok, nunolopes, juansequeda, Zakim, RRSAgent, boris, hhalpin, mhausenblas, MacTed, LeeF, betehess, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:02:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:02:36 <hhalpin> Zakim, [IPcaller] is hhalpin
17:02:36 <Zakim> +hhalpin; got it
17:02:42 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:02:44 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:02:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see boris, MacTed, mhausenblas, juansequeda, hhalpin
17:02:48 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
17:02:52 <hhalpin> Zakim, what's the code
17:02:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'what's the code', hhalpin
17:02:57 <hhalpin> Zakim, what's the code?
17:02:58 <Zakim> the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), hhalpin
17:03:11 <boris> I had it in a previous telco ...
17:03:12 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb
17:03:24 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabb Souri 
17:03:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aabb Souri', mhausenblas
17:03:29 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabb is Souri 
17:03:29 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
17:03:53 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
17:04:22 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
17:04:29 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
17:04:32 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: boris (14%), MacTed (20%), juansequeda (26%), Ashok_Malhotra (31%)
17:04:41 <boris> zakim, mute me
17:04:41 <Zakim> boris should now be muted
17:04:49 <MacTed> Topic: Admin
17:05:15 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/11/16-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
17:05:18 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
17:05:26 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aacc is Seema 
17:05:26 <Zakim> +Seema; got it
17:05:40 <juansequeda> +1
17:05:44 <MacTed> RESOLUTION: Accept the minutes of last meeting, see http://www.w3.org/2010/11/16-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
17:05:48 <hhalpin> +1
17:06:33 <Zakim> + +1.562.249.aadd
17:06:49 <MacTed> Harry loves RDB2RDF, but has too few hours to do that and his new responsibilities.  Ivan Hermann will be picking up Harry's admin roles.
17:07:00 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aadd is Marcelo 
17:07:00 <Zakim> +Marcelo; got it
17:07:37 <mhausenblas> s/Hermann/Herman
17:08:38 <boris> zakim, unmute me
17:08:38 <Zakim> boris should no longer be muted
17:09:02 <MacTed> Topic: Review of R2RML Test Cases
17:09:04 <MacTed> :-)
17:09:12 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_Test_Cases
17:10:18 <MacTed> mhausenblas: having created mapping syntax, now need to test to confirm it delivers as designed
17:11:18 <mhausenblas> Michael: let's start with the first two
17:11:19 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_Test_Cases#R2RMLTC0000
17:11:38 <MacTed> Boris: First case, obviously very simple...
17:11:58 <boris> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_Test_Cases#R2RMLTC0000
17:12:17 <Zakim> +boris.a
17:13:01 <Souri> q+
17:13:17 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
17:13:17 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
17:13:18 <Zakim> +EricP
17:13:26 <hhalpin> q+
17:13:49 <nunolopes> Zakim, boris.a is me
17:13:49 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
17:13:53 <ericP> q+
17:14:00 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
17:14:11 <nunolopes> Zakim, who's here?
17:14:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see boris, MacTed, mhausenblas, juansequeda, hhalpin, Ashok_Malhotra, Souri, Seema, Marcelo, nunolopes, EricP
17:14:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see Marcelo, Seema, Souri, Ashok, nunolopes, juansequeda, Zakim, RRSAgent, boris, hhalpin, mhausenblas, MacTed, LeeF, betehess, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:14:19 <hhalpin> +1 on new version of R2RML
17:14:21 <MacTed> MacTed: Test Case #0 appears to lack class, attribute definitions?
17:14:26 <nunolopes> Zakim, mute me
17:14:26 <Zakim> nunolopes should now be muted
17:14:51 <ericP> q-
17:15:06 <MacTed> Souri: R2RML mapping should only cover tables with data.  Empty tables should be left to Direct Mapping.
17:15:38 <mhausenblas> q?
17:15:42 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin 
17:16:07 <MacTed> hhalpin: since Direct Mapping already includes databases & code, best to re-use those samples
17:16:15 <mhausenblas> q?
17:16:30 <hhalpin> particularly for direct mapping
17:17:00 <MacTed> mhausenblas: proposes to put test case #0 on hold, given active discussion
17:17:22 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: put TC0000 on hold depending on Direct Mapping as default
17:19:16 <hhalpin> notes we can publish while that is on hold.
17:20:27 <boris> The purpose of the R2RML test cases is to verify and validate the specification of the R2RML language. Moreover, these test cases can be useful to create a test harness or automated test framework for testing the interoperable implementors, i.e. R2RML engines.
17:22:24 <Souri> We will allow an RDFS class to be generated (e.g., exa:emp rdf:type rdfs:Class) even when the logical table identified in a TriplesMap is actually empty.
17:22:26 <MacTed> ... discussion around what we're trying to do, what these test cases are supposed to be esting ...
17:22:32 <MacTed> s/esting/testing/
17:22:51 <hhalpin> +1
17:22:53 <boris> +1
17:22:58 <MacTed> RESOLUTION: put TC0000 on hold depending on Direct Mapping as default
17:23:02 <Souri> +1
17:23:15 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_Test_Cases#R2RMLTC0001
17:23:49 <MacTed> Boris: TC0001 - 1 table, 1 single column, 1 single row ... 
17:24:19 <MacTed> ... only RDB instance data is made into RDF; no schema info; no classes, etc.
17:24:57 <ericP> am i invited to contribute direct mapping tests here as well?
17:25:17 <ericP> therer are a bunch in the document, but some more i have in my implementation tests
17:25:40 <juansequeda> ericP, don't you think that all these test cases should have two ouputs: the R2RML customized mapping and the Direct Mapping one?
17:26:12 <ericP> juansequeda, i thought i just heard that these tests shouldn't have an empty r2rml configuration
17:26:23 <Marcelo> I agree with juansequeda
17:26:42 <juansequeda> ericP, each test case has "Expected Result"
17:26:43 <boris> yes, ericP
17:26:55 <juansequeda> it should also have "Expected Default Mapping Result"
17:27:25 <ericP> how about if an empty r2rml be a direct mapping test?
17:27:31 <juansequeda> and take the same input schema/data
17:28:11 <ericP> that sounds good to me
17:28:20 <ericP> sure
17:28:27 <ericP> sorry, on two telecons
17:28:38 <ericP> (only one mute button)
17:28:39 <ericP> sure
17:28:58 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Juan and Eric to draft Direct Mapping TC
17:28:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-81 - And Eric to draft Direct Mapping TC [on Juan Sequeda - due 2010-11-30].
17:29:12 <hhalpin> I'd prefer these all to be part of the same test-case document
17:29:20 <hhalpin> just to keep life simple
17:29:23 <MacTed> +1 hhalpin
17:29:52 <MacTed> ... discussion about need for Direct Mapping test cases, and potentially integrating all test cases into a single document ...
17:30:21 <ericP> q+
17:30:28 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
17:30:30 <mhausenblas> q?
17:30:56 <MacTed> ericP: sees a lot of framework that will be repeated across Direct Mapping & R2RML
17:31:21 <MacTed> ... the pain of editing will be justified by the end result
17:31:47 <MacTed> mhausenblas: needs to be clear, this is the DM stuff and this is the R2RML stuff...
17:32:43 <MacTed> ... objections to TC0001?
17:35:22 <MacTed> group ... confusion stemming from labeling, wording of descriptions...
17:36:43 <mhausenblas> remove rr:datatype xsd:string 
17:37:36 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept TC0001 and remove the rr:datatype
17:37:39 <Souri> +1 (modulo the rr:tableOwner incusion at some point)
17:37:54 <Souri> s/incusion/inclusion/
17:38:11 <MacTed> RESOLUTION: Accept TC0001 and remove the rr:datatype
17:38:16 <boris> I'll inlcude the rr:tableOwner in the whole test cases
17:38:30 <hhalpin> move review to list-serv?
17:38:41 <hhalpin> try to get everyone to do a review of it before next telecon?
17:38:47 <boris> zakin, mute me
17:38:48 <MacTed> TOPIC: Implementation
17:38:51 <boris> zakim, mute me
17:38:51 <Zakim> boris should now be muted
17:40:02 <Souri> q+
17:40:29 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Create a Wiki page with status of implementations (and plans thereof)
17:40:41 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
17:41:13 <MacTed> Souri: R2RML doc has been much changed from previous, much improved
17:41:55 <Souri> -(-1) => no objections
17:42:07 <MacTed> RESOLUTION: Create a Wiki page with status of implementations (and plans thereof)
17:42:43 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to create Wiki page with implementation status (and plans thereof)
17:42:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-82 - Create Wiki page with implementation status (and plans thereof) [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-11-30].
17:43:15 <MacTed> TOPIC: R2RML status
17:43:24 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/
17:43:27 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
17:43:38 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (60%), mhausenblas (35%)
17:43:54 <ericP> boris, could you review what i've put in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_Test_Cases#R2RMLTC0005b ?
17:43:59 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
17:43:59 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
17:44:50 <MacTed> Souri: week after FPWD was published, reworked into much simpler structure, while test cases being developed
17:45:17 <MacTed> ... would like in-depth critical review as soon as possible, to replace FPWD with 2ndPWD
17:45:56 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
17:45:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see boris (muted), MacTed (muted), mhausenblas, juansequeda, hhalpin, Ashok_Malhotra, Souri, Seema, Marcelo, nunolopes (muted), EricP
17:45:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see Marcelo, Seema, Souri, Ashok, nunolopes, juansequeda, Zakim, RRSAgent, boris, hhalpin, mhausenblas, MacTed, LeeF, betehess, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:45:59 <ericP> boris, i didn't renumber after http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_Test_Cases#R2RMLTC0005b (note the 'b' at the end)
17:46:23 <ericP> we may want names which don't imply an order
17:46:39 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Ashok to review R2RML ED
17:46:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-83 - Review R2RML ED [on Ashok Malhotra - due 2010-11-30].
17:46:52 <juansequeda> ericP, does the 'b' imply direct mapping?
17:47:08 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
17:47:08 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
17:47:35 <ericP> juansequeda, it's just 'cause i was lazy and didn't want to renumber 6, 7, 8...
17:47:55 <ericP> i stuck it after 5 'cause it was closest in concept to 00005
17:48:00 <juansequeda> ericP, ok, just confirming 
17:48:06 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
17:48:18 <ericP> ahh, 'b' is for "bis", how's that excuse?
17:48:45 <mhausenblas> LeeF, could you review R2RML as well? 
17:49:15 <hhalpin> q+
17:49:17 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to ask Lee if he can review R2RML ED
17:49:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-84 - Ask Lee if he can review R2RML ED [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-11-30].
17:49:21 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin 
17:50:40 <boris> q?
17:50:54 <ericP> boris, i think were wondering about the "discriminating query"
17:51:56 <Souri> latest R2RML Editor's draft => http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/Overview.html
17:52:21 <ericP> it was intended to record a query which would reveal whether you have the correct behavior
17:52:24 <ericP> in this case, an aggregate would reveal whether you have preserved cardinality
17:52:42 <mhausenblas> Michael: Ted please look at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/status/2010/
17:52:42 <ericP> i'll add the SPARQL query as well, but feel free to push back on this
17:53:39 <Zakim> -EricP
17:53:52 <boris> ericP ... I see ...
17:53:58 <boris> but there is no time
17:54:01 <boris> now
17:54:14 <MacTed> TOPIC: Direct Mapping Status
17:54:31 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
17:54:31 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
17:54:31 <MacTed> Marcelo: have been working on DATALOG part of document with juansequeda
17:54:31 <Zakim> +EricP
17:54:36 <mhausenblas> q?
17:54:42 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:54:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:54:45 <MacTed> ... particularly on how to handle foreign keys
17:54:53 <MacTed> ... more-or-less know how to do it, need to write it down
17:55:15 <MacTed> juansequeda: there are some noted issues, not sure when/how to start addressing those
17:55:52 <MacTed> mhausenblas: you three editors are drivers of the document; put things forward for agenda, discussion will happen...
17:56:36 <MacTed> ... agenda additions *can* also happen in the moment
17:57:16 <MacTed> ericP: feels like this doc has drifted a lot from original WG resolution, wonders whether it needs a full group revisit
17:59:27 <hhalpin> expandability plus collapsable buttons seems minor to me
17:59:34 <MacTed> ericP: rearrangement of headers; expand/collapse buttons a questionable thing
18:00:13 <mhausenblas> Michael: it should not be empty; English text should be the default (non-hideable)
18:00:19 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes 
18:00:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html mhausenblas
18:00:29 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directGraph/#iris-details1
18:00:44 <hhalpin> q+
18:02:06 <mhausenblas> ack hhalpin
18:03:34 <Zakim> -Souri
18:03:49 <hhalpin> here's official resolution: RESOLUTION: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/  with Juan, Marcelo and Eric as editors based on Richard's proposal as of  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2010Nov/0052.html  and try to work in J&M's IRI and Triple generations part; move hierarchical table and the M-M mappings into Ed note; datalog as a separate section; Eric perform merge with review/approval/consensus of Juan, Marcelo, & Eric
18:04:07 <hhalpin> from http://www.w3.org/2010/11/09-rdb2rdf-minutes.html
18:05:22 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Ted to review Direct Mapping ED
18:05:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-85 - Review Direct Mapping ED [on Ted Thibodeau - due 2010-11-30].
18:05:27 <mhausenblas> q?
18:06:06 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-5?
18:06:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-5 -- Default vs. direct mapping -- open
18:06:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/5
18:06:28 <MacTed> MacTed: if there are to be *any* collapsible headers, I think they should *all* be so
18:06:39 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
18:06:47 <mhausenblas> [adjourned]
18:06:51 <Zakim> -nunolopes
18:06:53 <Zakim> -EricP
18:06:55 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
18:06:57 <Zakim> -juansequeda
18:07:01 <Zakim> -Marcelo
18:07:07 <Zakim> -hhalpin
18:07:11 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
18:07:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see boris (muted), MacTed, Seema
18:07:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see Seema, juansequeda, Zakim, RRSAgent, boris, hhalpin, mhausenblas, MacTed, LeeF, betehess, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
18:07:14 <Zakim> -boris
18:07:28 <MacTed> mhausenblas -- should tell trackbot to end meeting, yes?
18:07:34 <mhausenblas> pls
18:07:40 <MacTed> trackbot, end meeting
18:08:01 <MacTed> hello, trackbot.....
18:08:09 <mhausenblas> trackbot, stop meeting
18:08:09 <trackbot> Sorry, mhausenblas, I don't understand 'trackbot, stop meeting'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
18:08:13 <MacTed> or maybe it can't hear the scribenick?
18:08:31 <MacTed> scribenick:
18:08:35 <MacTed> trackbot, end meeting
18:08:55 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
18:08:55 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:08:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +49.133.6.aaaa, mhausenblas, MacTed, boris, juansequeda, hhalpin, Ashok_Malhotra, +1.603.897.aabb, Souri, +1.603.897.aacc, Seema,
18:08:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:08:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-minutes.html trackbot
18:08:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:08:57 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-actions.rdf :
18:08:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Juan and Eric to draft Direct Mapping TC [1]
18:08:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-irc#T17-28-58
18:08:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas to create Wiki page with implementation status (and plans thereof) [2]
18:08:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-irc#T17-42-43
18:08:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ashok to review R2RML ED [3]
18:08:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-irc#T17-46-39
18:08:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas to ask Lee if he can review R2RML ED [4]
18:08:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-irc#T17-49-17
18:08:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ted to review Direct Mapping ED [5]
18:08:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/23-rdb2rdf-irc#T18-05-22
18:08:58 <Zakim> ... +1.562.249.aadd, Marcelo, EricP, nunolopes
18:09:20 <Zakim> -Seema