21:00:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #fx
21:00:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/22-fx-irc
21:00:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:00:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #fx
21:00:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3983
21:00:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_FXTF()4:00PM scheduled to start now
21:00:39 <trackbot> Meeting: CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
21:00:39 <trackbot> Date: 22 November 2010
21:01:26 <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has now started
21:01:32 <heycam> Zakim, code?
21:01:32 <Zakim> the conference code is 3983 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), heycam
21:01:35 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaaa
21:01:41 <TabAtkins> zakim, aaaa is me.
21:01:41 <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
21:01:43 <Zakim> +??P1
21:01:46 <heycam> Zakim, ??P1 is me
21:01:46 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
21:02:20 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:02:35 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
21:02:35 <Zakim> +ed; got it
21:02:57 <Zakim> +Shepazu
21:03:16 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010OctDec/0060.html
21:03:27 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #fx
21:04:15 <ed> Zakim, who's here?
21:04:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see TabAtkins, heycam, ed, Shepazu
21:04:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, CSSWG_LogBot, f1lt3r, shepazu, heycam, plinss_, plinss, TabAtkins, ed, trackbot
21:04:58 <Zakim> +ChrisL
21:05:11 <ed> regrets: simon
21:06:08 <ChrisL> scribenick: ChrisL
21:06:44 <ChrisL> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010OctDec/0060.html
21:06:58 <ChrisL> topic: public-fx-editors
21:07:07 <ChrisL> ed: logs cvs changes
21:07:49 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx-editors/
21:07:51 <ChrisL> ... for entire fx taskforce area on dev.w3.org
21:08:02 <ChrisL> chair: Erik
21:08:57 <ChrisL> cm: am i on?
21:09:02 <ChrisL> cl: will chec
21:09:38 <ChrisL> ... no you weren't
21:09:49 <ChrisL> topic: task force specs
21:10:09 <ChrisL> ed: see agenda, only 2d transforms is committed so far and the editors anre not here
21:10:22 <anthony> anthony has joined #fx
21:10:44 <ChrisL> ed: sounds like 2d transforms is ready to publish
21:12:17 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/charter/
21:12:17 <ChrisL> ed: charter mentions other specs too
21:12:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:13:04 <ChrisL> cm: what is the status?
21:13:14 <anthony> Zakim, [IP is me
21:13:14 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
21:13:57 <ChrisL> ds: at tpac it was clarified that css wg, being larger and with only a subset of members on the tf, publication decisions need separate ratification
21:14:22 <ChrisL> cl:anything which is in scope for both charters can be worked on by agreement
21:14:39 <ChrisL> ds: svg has most members on the tf so does not need separate ratification
21:15:18 <ChrisL> ed: anthony, what is the expected date for publication on 2d?
21:15:40 <ChrisL> ag: some changes needed before publication, and simon has an action about api comparisons
21:16:22 <ChrisL> ... and a way to get back the trasform value, which is not a matrix
21:16:39 <ChrisL> ... glazou wanted a human readable transform list
21:17:13 <ChrisL> ag: or we could publish as is and add more stuff later
21:17:21 <ChrisL> ed: is it ok to publish now
21:17:40 <ChrisL> ag: needs an intro and some red bits removed, before fpwd
21:17:52 <ChrisL> ... minor edits then publish
21:18:42 <ChrisL> ag: css wg was keen to move forward. just needs some cleanup here and there
21:19:28 <ChrisL> cl: suggest making the edits first then making a publication decision
21:19:54 <ChrisL> ag: estimate two weeks for edits, another week for examples so 3 weeks
21:20:13 <ChrisL> ed: so around 6 december
21:20:29 <ChrisL> ed: (adds as due date to wiki)
21:20:54 <ChrisL> s/6/13/
21:21:22 <ChrisL> ed: this would be fpwd
21:23:06 <ChrisL> ed: filters module is closer to publication. will move over to fx space then incoproprate roc proposal
21:23:25 <ChrisL> ... some work already to allow that to be used in css/html but needs more definition
21:23:39 <ChrisL> cl: due date?
21:24:23 <ChrisL> ed: aim for an editors draft around 20 december
21:26:03 <ChrisL> ed: for the other specs I think we are waiting for dean to propose the animation model, maybe someone from microsoft also had an action
21:26:24 <ChrisL> cm: on the list, moz request animation frame was brought up
21:26:32 <ChrisL> ... seems a reasonable fit for webapps
21:26:43 <ChrisL> ds: appropriate for this group as well
21:26:46 <ChrisL> cm: hmmm
21:27:03 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
21:27:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see TabAtkins, heycam, ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony
21:27:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see anthony, ChrisL, Zakim, RRSAgent, CSSWG_LogBot, f1lt3r, shepazu, heycam, plinss_, plinss, TabAtkins, ed, trackbot
21:27:24 <ChrisL> ds (link to webapps discussion)
21:27:38 <ChrisL> tab: point is to sync with animation
21:27:44 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0644.html
21:28:31 <ChrisL> cm: not just to syn with declarative animation, also to allow purely user written animations to not hog the cpu
21:28:40 <ChrisL> ds: yes it hooks into refresh rates
21:28:50 <ChrisL> ... its all about animation
21:29:12 <ChrisL> ... need to have a suitable api to make that work
21:29:22 <ChrisL> cm: no preference where it goes
21:29:42 <ChrisL> ds: good to have discussion in multiple places to get more feedback
21:30:00 <ChrisL> ... in terms of charters its in scope of svg wg charter
21:30:07 <ChrisL> ... but not webapps
21:30:23 <ChrisL> ... css has animation in scope as well, not explicitly scripting though
21:31:12 <ChrisL> ds: can alert that list to this discussion
21:31:22 <ChrisL> ed: looking forward to seeing the proposals
21:31:46 <ChrisL> cm: mentioned to dino interested in helping out with unified animation model. he plans to add a wiki page
21:32:11 <ChrisL> topic: Maintenance / progress
21:32:31 <ChrisL> ed: looking through tracker, we have three open issues with no actions
21:32:44 <ChrisL> issue-1?
21:32:44 <trackbot> ISSUE-1 -- Consider not adding transformRef to Transforms spec -- raised
21:32:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/track/issues/1
21:33:10 <ChrisL> ed: no actions for this
21:33:26 <ChrisL> ag: not on my list. did we discuss at tpac?
21:33:44 <ChrisL> ed: definitely an issue, is it important or can we live without?
21:33:53 <ChrisL> ... need sa note in the spec that its an issue
21:34:18 <ChrisL> action: anthony to add a note to 2d transforms with issue on transformRef
21:34:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - Add a note to 2d transforms with issue on transformRef [on Anthony Grasso - due 2010-11-29].
21:34:47 <ChrisL> issue-2?
21:34:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-2 -- Need to figure out how transitions affect a transform on an element that has an animation running on it -- raised
21:34:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/track/issues/2
21:35:24 <ChrisL> simon says "I don't understand this Issue."
21:36:11 <ChrisL> tab: who raised it?
21:36:13 <ChrisL> ed: raised in telcon
21:36:23 <ChrisL> ag: its a transitions issue
21:36:57 <ChrisL> ... dbaron said there wwere some bugs with transitions affecting transforms, so the transitions chapter was removed from the fx 2d spec
21:37:06 <ChrisL> ed: so the issue could be closed then?
21:37:28 <ChrisL> ChrisL: better to close and re-open a more specific issue that is better documented
21:37:57 <TabAtkins> ScribeNick: TabAtkins
21:38:27 <TabAtkins> ag: A metapoint - I saw Siomon's notes on this issue, and Patrick put some notes on other actions/issues, and I wonder if that's not a good use of Tracker, because it doesn't send out emails.
21:38:40 <TabAtkins> ag: Perhaps it should be the other way around - send emails to the list and have tracker pick them up automatically.
21:38:49 <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Agreed.
21:40:08 <TabAtkins> ed: Last open issue is #3, about writing mode values across CSS and SVG.
21:40:15 <ed> issue-3?
21:40:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-3 -- writing-mode values across CSS and SVG -- raised
21:40:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/track/issues/3
21:40:46 <heycam> s/ag: A meta/cm: A meta/
21:40:51 <heycam> s/ag: Perh/cm: Perh/
21:41:54 <TabAtkins> ag: I'm not sure what this issue is about really.
21:42:05 <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: It's just a harmonization issue between the two versions of writing-mode.
21:42:42 <ChrisL> scribenick: chrisl
21:42:43 <TabAtkins> ag: SVG picked a bunch of writing modes a while back, and fantasai was trying to pick something out that made more sense.
21:43:21 <ChrisL> ed: to agree on the set of values, not much problem for svg side
21:43:42 <ChrisL> cm: seen one of the rtl in inkscape output. or was it the ttb one
21:43:50 <ChrisL> ... not much content that iuses it
21:44:12 <ChrisL> ed: ok to drop some if that is what we decide
21:44:51 <ChrisL> ed: can we assign an action to this, and if so what?
21:46:18 <ChrisL> cl: original problem description is clear, so its just a case of doing it
21:46:27 <ChrisL> ds: will raise an issue on svg2
21:46:39 <ChrisL> ... while grumbling
21:47:22 <ChrisL> ed: pity traker has no move or duplicate functionality
21:47:30 <ChrisL> s/trak/track/
21:47:55 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2392
21:48:32 <ChrisL> topic: CSS3-UI pointer-events
21:48:45 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2010OctDec/0058.html
21:49:14 <ChrisL> topic: Publishing resolutions and WG communication
21:49:35 <ChrisL> ed: we need to be careful to minute resolutions and to ensure the parent groups are well informed
21:50:03 <ChrisL> cm: tantek dod not seem to see the tf work as on scope
21:50:25 <ChrisL> tab: the css wg is large enough thatcss wg is not on the radar or everyone
21:50:55 <ChrisL> ds: disappointed we don't have adobe here
21:51:57 <ChrisL> tab: szilles is not directly involved with css implementation. was talking with some authoring-related adobe employees. will prod them to join
21:52:27 <ChrisL> s/dod/did/
21:52:50 <shepazu> s/thatcss wg is not on the radar or everyone/that css wg is not on the radar for everyone/
21:53:07 <ChrisL> ed: should ee communicate the milestone dates now, or when edits are done
21:53:16 <ChrisL> cm: does tf stuff get discussed?
21:53:26 <ChrisL> tab: only 2.1 stuff at the moment.
21:53:48 <ChrisL> cm: worried that there is not enough communication
21:54:38 <ChrisL> ChrisL: agree, but its 100% on css 2.1 at the moment
21:55:31 <ChrisL> topic: CSS3-UI pointer-events
21:55:46 <ChrisL> ed: some discussion and a few issues raised
21:56:06 <ChrisL> ... and kevinr asked some questions too
21:57:01 <ChrisL> ... should css3 spec be what svg references in the future, or would it diverge?
21:57:35 <ChrisL> ChrisL: copy pasting from svg 1.1 into css3 ui is a bad idea, it should normatively reference for svg-specific details
21:57:59 <ChrisL> ed: there are issues raised, 
21:58:16 <ed> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css3-ui
21:59:23 <ChrisL> ChrisL: seems tantek accepts on issue 6, and is just waiting for a reference to use
21:59:26 <ChrisL> ed: ok
21:59:48 <ChrisL> action: erik to send normative links for fill and stroke
21:59:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Send normative links for fill and stroke [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-29].
22:00:34 <ChrisL> ed: can we resolve this?
22:01:03 <ChrisL> resolved: css3 ui should reference svg spec for svg specifics, uris will be provided
22:02:44 <Zakim> -TabAtkins
22:02:47 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
22:02:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/22-fx-minutes.html ChrisL
22:03:56 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
22:03:56 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.650.253.aaaa, TabAtkins, heycam, [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony
22:04:12 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
22:04:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/22-fx-minutes.html ChrisL
22:04:25 <Zakim> -ed
22:04:27 <Zakim> -heycam
22:04:29 <Zakim> -ChrisL
22:04:29 <Zakim> -anthony
22:04:36 <Zakim> -Shepazu
22:04:38 <Zakim> GA_FXTF()4:00PM has ended
22:04:40 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.650.253.aaaa, TabAtkins, heycam, [IPcaller], ed, Shepazu, ChrisL, anthony
23:44:15 <fantasai> fantasai has joined #fx