19:59:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:59:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc
19:59:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:59:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
19:59:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:59:44 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
19:59:45 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:59:45 <trackbot> Date: 18 November 2010
20:00:40 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has now started
20:00:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:01:01 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:01:01 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:04:47 <tbah> tbah has joined #svg
20:05:14 <anthony> anthony has joined #svg
20:06:36 <Zakim> +??P2
20:06:57 <anthony> Zakim, ??P2 is me
20:06:57 <Zakim> +anthony; got it
20:07:15 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0150.html
20:08:02 <tbah> Pass code?
20:08:06 <ed> Regrets: PD, CM
20:08:56 <tbah> Hmm, that didn't work. I'll try again.
20:10:07 <Zakim> + +33.9.53.77.aaaa
20:10:57 <ed> Zakim, +33 is tav
20:10:57 <Zakim> +tav; got it
20:17:13 <anthony> Scribe: Anthony
20:17:23 <anthony> ScribeNick: anthony
20:17:33 <anthony> Chair: Erik
20:18:00 <anthony> Topic: SVG 1.1 Issues and Actions
20:18:04 <ed> ISSUE-2332?
20:18:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-2332 -- Last Call Comment: regarding Text layout -- open
20:18:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332
20:18:16 <anthony> ED: Regarding text layout
20:18:32 <anthony> ... raised by Alex in regard to later version of the spec
20:18:45 <anthony> ... Tav you investigated the issue
20:18:57 <anthony> TB: Yes, did I make some suggestions?
20:19:00 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
20:19:14 <anthony> ED: Yes you did. Problem is Alex thought they would raise other issues
20:19:34 <anthony> ... so he felt that it was best left for SVG 2 then
20:19:56 <anthony> ... My concern is getting SVG F1.1 finished
20:19:57 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:20:09 <anthony> ... so I don't mind moving it to SVG 2
20:20:15 <anthony> ... any objections?
20:20:27 <anthony> AG: None heard
20:20:39 <ChrisL> issue-2332?
20:20:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-2332 -- Last Call Comment: regarding Text layout -- open
20:20:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2332
20:22:04 <anthony> RESOLUTION: We will move this issue to SVG 2
20:23:39 <anthony> ISSUE-2335?
20:23:39 <trackbot> ISSUE-2335 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify feConvolveMatrix bias property -- raised
20:23:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2335
20:24:00 <anthony> AG: Just want to try out the formula for option 2 and compare it with the results in the specification
20:24:20 <anthony> ED: Will require some test to be written
20:24:33 <anthony> ISSUE-2346?
20:24:33 <trackbot> ISSUE-2346 -- Last Call Comment: previous discussion about filterRes -- raised
20:24:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2346
20:24:44 <anthony> ED: No action assigned to it
20:25:43 <anthony> ... does Inkscape handle filterRes?
20:25:51 <anthony> TB: No
20:26:05 <anthony> ED: Opera does, but my guess is it is not very clearly defined what it means
20:26:23 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Investigate ISSUE-2346
20:26:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2908 - Investigate ISSUE-2346 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].
20:27:14 <anthony> ISSUE-2351?
20:27:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-2351 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify that units are required on <length>s in style attribute; fix examples in text. -- raised
20:27:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2351
20:27:38 <anthony> ED: Can we mark this as resolved or is there anymore actions to be done?
20:27:49 <anthony> TB: I recommended text changes for this one
20:27:59 <anthony> CL: I thought we had made some changes
20:28:32 <anthony> ...we clarified the style sheets, for example you could omit the unit
20:28:51 <anthony> ... I think people are confused is because they are looking at style attributes
20:29:00 <anthony> ED: There is nothing linked to the issue
20:29:09 <anthony> ... just wondering if that edit was made and not updated
20:29:15 <anthony> TB: I suggested some changes in July
20:29:37 <tbah> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0042.html
20:29:39 <anthony> ... with some example changes
20:29:42 <anthony> CL: It would surprise me if those examples are wrong
20:30:09 <ChrisL> s/would/wouldn't/
20:30:29 <anthony> TB: It wasn't the SVG file that was a problem
20:30:31 <anthony> ... it was the text
20:31:34 <anthony> ... in Section 7.10
20:32:14 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/coords.html
20:32:17 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010JulSep/0043.html
20:32:22 <anthony> CL: I'm editing this one in place
20:32:28 <ChrisL> &lt;text font-size="50"&gt;Text size is 50 user units&lt;/text&gt;
20:32:31 <anthony> ED: Pointed out some minor issues
20:32:41 <anthony> CL: I've changed it to use the font-size property
20:32:59 <anthony> ... I changed it to be a presentation attribute
20:33:05 <anthony> TB: That's what I suggested it to be
20:33:15 <anthony> ... Aside from that, I did suggest some other changes
20:33:20 <anthony> ... to the text
20:34:09 <anthony> ED: Chris are you doing those edits as well?
20:34:17 <anthony> CL: Just trying to see where the edits are
20:34:23 <anthony> ... there are really 3 cases and not 2
20:35:01 <ChrisL> For properties defined in CSS2 [CSS2], an angle unit identifier must be provided. For angle values in SVG-specific properties and their corresponding presentation attributes, the angle unit identifier is optional.
20:35:29 <anthony> CL: That what is says currently
20:35:46 <anthony> TB: The problem is to get to that place
20:35:52 <anthony> ... you have to go through a bunch of steps
20:35:57 <anthony> ... which is very confusing
20:36:24 <anthony> ... the suggested text changes I had were to clarify that
20:36:39 <anthony> CL: Ok I see
20:37:56 <anthony> TB: I'd be happy to edit the spec, but I don't have CVS access
20:39:06 <ChrisL> I will fix that
20:41:49 <anthony> ACTION: Tav to Make suggested edits to the specification that address ISSUE-2351
20:41:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2909 - Make suggested edits to the specification that address ISSUE-2351 [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2010-11-25].
20:42:28 <anthony> ED: Any more actions
20:42:28 <tbah> tbah has joined #svg
20:43:24 <anthony> CL: Yes there a few things that Helder metioned
20:43:29 <anthony> ... I've started addressing those
20:43:48 <anthony> ... In some cases he's made suggestions for the changes
20:43:56 <anthony> ... and we can use what he's suggested
20:45:39 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1 2nd Edition
20:45:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2910 - Cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1 2nd Edition [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-25].
20:46:00 <anthony> CL: Also given an action to port some stuff over from SVG TIny 1.2
20:46:09 <anthony> ... on intrinsic dimensions
20:46:23 <anthony> ... had to port across some definitions as well
20:46:32 <anthony> ... which the new text referenced
20:46:42 <anthony> ... I've closed the action off just before the call
20:46:50 <anthony> ED: Was there a last call issue?
20:47:20 <anthony> CL: No, the CSS working group were looking at it and David Baron thought there was good text in SVG 1.2 Tiny
20:48:54 <ed> ACTION-2815?
20:48:54 <trackbot> ACTION-2815 -- Patrick Dengler to draft a complete response to ISSUE-2338 and research the answers to the questions asked -- due 2010-07-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:48:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2815
20:48:58 <anthony> ED: I saw Patrick has almost completed ACTION-2815
20:49:44 <ChrisL> that was ACTION-2896: Copy the Intrinsic sizing wording in Tiny 1.2 to Full 1.1 2nd Edition by the way
20:49:45 <anthony> ... I think the answer looks mostly complete
20:50:01 <anthony> ... one minor thing that wasn't quite clear
20:50:23 <anthony> ... Tav can you try to clear that up?
20:50:27 <anthony> TB: Ok
20:52:30 <anthony> ACTION: Tav to Finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf
20:52:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2911 - Finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2010-11-25].
20:53:30 <anthony> ED: Was actually ISSUE-2338
20:54:20 <anthony> ED: Ok I have a few issues
20:54:23 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0158.html
20:54:40 <anthony> ... the first one was clarify paced animations
20:54:57 <anthony> ... it will just be porting wording from the Tiny 1.2 specification
20:55:02 <anthony> CL: Ok looks good
20:55:05 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0155.html
20:55:12 <anthony> ED: The other one is defining clip-path
20:55:16 <anthony> ... quite minor edit
20:55:36 <anthony> ... saying again if you put a clip-path property on a clip-path element then there is no effect
20:55:38 <anthony> CL: Ok
20:56:00 <anthony> s/no effect/an effect/
20:56:58 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to clarify paced animations in SVG Full 1.1 by adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2
20:56:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2912 - Clarify paced animations in SVG Full 1.1 by adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].
20:57:34 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Clarify that the clip-path property has an effect on the clipPath element
20:57:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2913 - Clarify that the clip-path property has an effect on the clipPath element [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].
20:58:08 <anthony> Topic: Test Suite
20:58:36 <anthony> ED: One of the first things is to clear up the confusion on the WOFF thing
20:59:02 <anthony> CL: I think there is some confusion that Microsoft wanted to make WOFF mandatory
20:59:16 <anthony> ... The idea is to add WOFF as a fall back
20:59:38 <anthony> ... I'm part way through that
20:59:53 <anthony> ... What I did find though it helped with I.E. 9
20:59:59 <anthony> ... but It didn't work with Firefox
21:00:15 <anthony> ... WOFF is required to read from the same origin
21:00:50 <anthony> ... so in a local file system having /../ is not allowed
21:01:36 <anthony> ... which means we will need to put the font in a sub directory in the test suite files directory with the WOFF files
21:01:44 <anthony> ... will this break any of the scripts?
21:01:56 <anthony> AG: Should be ok, as long as it is the last thing that gets done
21:02:15 <anthony> ED: We also use a packaging script to package all the directories up into a single archive
21:04:58 <anthony> RESOLUTION: For tests that use SVG fonts as part of the test we will add WOFF fall back fonts in addition to the SVG fonts
21:06:27 <ed> styling-css-06-b.svg
21:06:44 <anthony> ED: I don't think the test should be dropped
21:06:53 <anthony> ... if anything we should have more tests for active and focus
21:06:59 <anthony> ... as this test is limited
21:07:09 <anthony> CL: Well we didn't originally have a test for it at all
21:07:34 <anthony> ED: I haven't tested this in Safari or Chrome
21:07:54 <anthony> CL: It passes in Opera
21:08:32 <anthony> ED: Ok so Safari doesn't seem to do the stroking it does do the underline
21:08:38 <anthony> ... not sure why that is
21:08:45 <anthony> ... might be because it's been selected
21:09:09 <anthony> ... apart from that, I think Safari is passing everything except that point with the particular stroke
21:09:23 <anthony> ... not sure what the cause is
21:09:46 <anthony> ... seems to be doing the same style rule and they should both apply at the same time
21:10:13 <anthony> CL: I don't see anything wrong with the test
21:10:21 <anthony> ... and I see specific wording in the SVG spec
21:10:35 <anthony> ED: It's close to being passed by more than one implementation
21:11:22 <anthony> ... I mean it is applying the correct style rule
21:11:40 <anthony> CL: I'm sort of tempted to leave it because it encourages them to fix their bug
21:16:36 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/text.html#TextSelection
21:18:41 <anthony> CL: found the wording
21:18:48 <anthony> ... section 6.7
21:19:18 <anthony> ... in the old version
21:19:26 <ChrisL> CSS2's dynamic pseudo-classes :hover, :active and :focus and pseudo-classes :first-child, :visited, :link and :lang ([CSS2], section 5.11). The remaining CSS2 pseudo-classes, including those having to do with generated content ([CSS2], chapter 12), are not part of the SVG language definition. (Note: an SVG element gains focus when it is selected. See Text selection.)
21:19:44 <ChrisL> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/styling.html#StylingWithCSS
21:21:05 <anthony> AG: Just wondering if we should change the wording
21:24:37 <anthony> ACTION: Chris to Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7 in the specification regarding style events on text
21:24:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2914 - Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7 in the specification regarding style events on text [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-25].
21:24:40 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2010OctDec/0072.html
21:25:12 <anthony> Topic: Opacity on mask elements
21:25:28 <anthony> ED: Email is about whether opacity and mask elements have some sort of effect
21:25:47 <anthony> ... I think that most implementations apply an opacity on a mask element
21:26:02 <anthony> ... the test on the email show that Firefox, Opera and Safari
21:26:06 <anthony> ... render the square red
21:26:19 <anthony> ... meaning there is no effect from the opacity
21:26:27 <anthony> ... I think Patrik was asking this to be clarified
21:26:41 <anthony> ... first of all is that the behaviour that we want
21:27:42 <anthony> TB: Inkscape is doing the same thing as firefox
21:27:54 <anthony> ... one red square, two green
21:29:14 <anthony> AG: when you mask something you're clipping it
21:29:16 <anthony> ED: Yes
21:29:32 <anthony> AG: So doesn't really make sense to have an opacity on a mask
21:29:54 <anthony> ED: I think adding some wording to say that opacity doesn't apply to mask elements is a good clarification to make
21:30:03 <anthony> AG: Where would you add that?
21:30:36 <anthony> ED: The mask property lists that it applies to container elements
21:30:46 <anthony> ... and that it is a container element
21:31:53 <ed> 'mask' property -> Applies to: graphics elements and container elements (except for the <mask> element)
21:32:25 <anthony> ED: The other thing to do would be remove mask elements from container elements
21:32:37 <anthony> s/other/alternative/
21:33:00 <anthony> ED: Another possible change would be list all the general elements, but that wouldn't be very pretty
21:33:29 <anthony> CL: Could even add a sentence to say that if the mask element is directly rendered the opacity has no effect
21:34:31 <anthony> s/element is directly/element is not directly/
21:34:45 <anthony> CL: Might be worth explaining in the specification why that is
21:35:06 <ed> s/'mask' property/'opacity' property/
21:35:25 <anthony> ACTION: Erik to Clarify that opacity does no apply to mask
21:35:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2915 - Clarify that opacity does no apply to mask [on Erik Dahlström - due 2010-11-25].
21:36:16 <Zakim> -ed
21:36:18 <Zakim> -anthony
21:36:23 <Zakim> -tav
21:36:24 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:36:26 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)3:00PM has ended
21:36:28 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], ed, anthony, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, tav, ChrisL
21:36:41 <anthony> trackbot, end telcon
21:36:41 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
21:36:41 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
21:36:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:36:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-minutes.html trackbot
21:36:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-actions.rdf :
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Erik to Investigate ISSUE-2346 [1]
21:36:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-26-23
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tav to Make suggested edits to the specification that address ISSUE-2351 [2]
21:36:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-41-49
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Chris to Cleanup changes appendix for SVG Full 1.1 2nd Edition [3]
21:36:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-45-39
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tav to Finish the response to Dr Olaf regarding ISSUE-2815 and fix the issues highlighted by Dr Olaf [4]
21:36:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-52-30
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Erik to clarify paced animations in SVG Full 1.1 by adding wording from SVG Tiny 1.2 [5]
21:36:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-56-58
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Erik to Clarify that the clip-path property has an effect on the clipPath element [6]
21:36:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T20-57-34
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Chris to Remove the "Note:" in section 6.7 in the specification regarding style events on text [7]
21:36:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T21-24-37
21:36:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Erik to Clarify that opacity does no apply to mask [8]
21:36:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/18-svg-irc#T21-35-25