IRC log of ws-ra on 2010-11-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:29:33 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be WSRA
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ok, trackbot, I see WS_WSRA()3:30PM already started
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Meeting: Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference
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Date: 16 November 2010
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+ +1.908.696.aabb
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20:32:27 [asir]
zakim, [Microsoft] is asir
20:32:27 [Zakim]
+asir; got it
20:33:03 [Wei]
zakim, Igor_Sedukhin is Wei
20:33:03 [Zakim]
+Wei; got it
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+ +1.571.262.aacc
20:35:10 [Bob_]
20:35:10 [Zakim]
20:35:19 [Zakim]
20:35:41 [Katy]
Topic: Agenda
20:35:45 [Katy]
agenda accepted
20:35:56 [Zakim]
20:35:57 [Katy]
Topic: approval of last minutes 5th oct
20:35:59 [gpilz]
zakim, who is making noise
20:35:59 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is making noise', gpilz
20:36:07 [Katy]
minutes accepted
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Topic: 11189
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drop off to join wu
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- +1.908.696.aabb
20:37:37 [Bob_]
zakim, who is noisy?
20:37:47 [Zakim]
Bob_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (4%), asir (62%)
20:39:09 [Bob_]
proposals in
20:39:46 [Zakim]
20:42:13 [Zakim]
20:43:18 [Katy]
Ashok: would it be possible to separate out the inlining from the dialect attribute
20:44:17 [asir]
20:44:44 [Bob_]
ack next
20:44:55 [dug]
20:45:02 [Katy]
... make it oorthogonal to dialect
20:45:17 [Bob_]
ack dug
20:45:49 [Zakim]
20:45:55 [Tom_Rutt]
20:46:08 [Bob_]
ack tom
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20:46:15 [Katy]
Doug: Depends whether they are always orthogonal. Prop 1 restricts to one content for all metadata
20:46:55 [Katy]
Tom: Concerned that prop 1 would remove function at this point. Preference for 3
20:46:55 [dug]
I'm leaning towards 3 too
20:47:13 [asir]
q+ to ask a question
20:47:26 [Bob_]
ack asir
20:47:26 [Zakim]
asir, you wanted to ask a question
20:47:40 [Katy]
Asir: There is a similar content attribute on the delete message
20:48:23 [Katy]
Doug: I don't think that this is an issue as we don't have a notion of deleting all the metadata, hence tying content attribute to dialect is ok for delete
20:48:49 [Katy]
RESOLUTION: Proposal 3
20:49:04 [Katy]
ACTION: Katy to write up text for proposal 3
20:49:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-171 - Write up text for proposal 3 [on Katy Warr - due 2010-11-23].
20:49:20 [Katy]
Topic: Issue 11202
20:50:25 [Katy]
Issue accepted, no objection
20:51:08 [asir]
I vaguely recollect that this was requested by WSO2/Paul Freemantle
20:52:10 [Katy]
RESOLUTION: 11202 is resolved as proposed in issue
20:52:20 [Katy]
Topic: Issue 11210
20:54:33 [Katy]
Resolution: 11210 is resolved as proposed in issue
20:55:12 [Katy]
Gil: Have sent email containing new issue in eventing
20:56:26 [Katy]
Bob: I will use your proposal as potential resolution to 10960
20:56:48 [Katy]
Topic: Feature lists
20:57:20 [Katy]
Bob: Is there any more known work required for these feature lists?
20:57:55 [Katy]
... as no more known work will use these as base
20:58:42 [Katy]
... I will pull all the feature lists from emails and organise on page so people have a uniform place to find
20:58:56 [Katy]
Action: Bob to pull feature list info together
20:58:56 [trackbot]
Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Bob
20:58:56 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. bnatale, rfreund)
20:59:09 [Katy]
Action: rfreund to pull feature list info together
20:59:09 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-172 - Pull feature list info together [on Bob Freund - due 2010-11-23].
20:59:24 [dug]
20:59:32 [Katy]
Topic: Primers
20:59:47 [Bob_]
ack dug
21:00:04 [Katy]
Bob: Make primers documents so we can start raising issues etc
21:01:10 [Katy]
Doug: Some text in transfer/frag is same for others
21:01:19 [Katy]
... so could consolidate
21:02:18 [Katy]
Action: rfreund to organise documents in central location on our web page
21:02:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-173 - Organise documents in central location on our web page [on Bob Freund - due 2010-11-23].
21:02:43 [Katy]
Topic: Next F2F
21:03:10 [Katy]
Bob: would like to pick a date so that we get some testing started
21:04:33 [Katy]
Asir: Ram said that February (mid) would be provisionally ok but would like a checkpoint in early Jan prior to committing
21:05:08 [Katy]
Bob: A checkpoint a month before the scheduled date would seem resonable before commit
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21:06:19 [Katy]
... suggest Jan 11th checkpoint for Feb 14th meeting
21:06:28 [dug]
Anyone care about valentine's day?
21:07:12 [Katy]
Gil: need to check availability of conference centre
21:07:53 [Katy]
Bob: Tues 15th, Wed 16th, Thurs 17th Feb? Objections?
21:08:13 [Katy]
No objections
21:08:28 [Katy]
Bob: Gil please check that you can host
21:09:34 [Katy]
Resolution: F2F provisionally set for 15-17th Feb, focus interop testing, will perform checkpoint to confirm date one month before.
21:09:47 [Katy]
Topic: Issue 8284
21:10:55 [dug]
21:11:00 [Katy]
Bob: WS-I BP are final so we can add the final URIs
21:11:01 [asir]
is there a specific text that we should be looking at
21:11:14 [dug]
21:11:38 [Bob_]
original proposal
21:12:59 [asir]
21:13:21 [Katy]
Bob: How is it best to wrap this into our wsdl references
21:13:36 [Bob_]
ack asir
21:14:29 [Katy]
Asir: there is a proposal from Gil dated Nov 13th 2009
21:15:06 [Bob_]
The version of WSDL 1.1 at has
21:15:07 [Bob_]
known problems and inconsistencies. These were addressed in BasicProfile
21:15:09 [Bob_]
Version 1.1. The WS-RA specs should reference the BP-corrected-version of WSDL
21:15:10 [Bob_]
1.1 via ISO IEC 29361:2008:
21:15:12 [Bob_]
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21:15:42 [Yves]
but it's not a freely available copy
21:16:10 [asir]
of course we need to replace ISO link to BP 12 and 20
21:18:37 [Katy]
asir: Whereever link to wsdl 1.1 with a note saying that there are issues to wsdl 1.1 that are addressed in latest BP 1.2 and 2.0 plus linke. In normative reference section.
21:19:08 [Katy]
Bob: Annotate references
21:20:11 [Katy]
Resolution: existing wsdl references (in bibliographies) should be annotated with appropriate links to BP 1.2 and 2.0
21:20:21 [Katy]
TopicL Issue 10960
21:20:51 [Bob_]
21:21:00 [Katy]
Topic: Issue 10960
21:21:13 [dug]
21:21:43 [Bob_]
Doug and I have put together the following proposal to address the WS-Eventing issues we have raised:
21:21:44 [Bob_]
To highlight the major changes:
21:21:46 [Bob_]
* The wse:Subscribe/wse:Expires element is no longer receiver-optional, but it remains sender-optional; an implementation of an Event Source MUST support the wse:Expires element, but a Subscriber is not required to include it. If the Subscriber does not include it, the Event Source/Subscription Manager is required to pick some expiration value ("PT0S" meaning infinite is a valid choice)...
21:21:48 [Bob_]
...and communicate this using wse:SubscribeResponse/wse:GrantedExpires.
21:21:50 [Bob_]
* The ExpiresNotSupported fault has been removed.
21:21:52 [Bob_]
* The wse:SubscribeResponse/wse:GrantedExpires and wse:RenewResponse/wse:GrantedExpires elements are no longer optional.
21:21:54 [Bob_]
* The ExpiresSupported policy parameter has been removed.
21:21:56 [Bob_]
* The MaxExpires policy parameter has been renamed "Expires" and now supports both min and max supported expiration times.
21:21:58 [Bob_]
~ gp
21:22:22 [Katy]
Bob: this has been available for comment for a while
21:22:48 [Katy]
... any objection to accepting the combined proposal in the word document as a resolution to this issue?
21:24:59 [Katy]
Resolution: Issue 10960 resolved based on proposal
21:25:53 [dug]
21:26:38 [Bob_]
21:26:55 [Bob_]
ack dug
21:26:56 [Katy]
Gil: REfered to message on public comment list from Anish - link above
21:27:44 [asir]
21:27:51 [Katy]
Doug: Basically looking for EventDescription spec to have a file extension for event description files (like .wsdl)
21:28:01 [Bob_]
ack asir
21:28:16 [Katy]
... is this just a de-facto 'standard'
21:28:57 [Katy]
Asir: Other specs specify a MIME type. This is probably what Anish is refering to.
21:29:09 [asir]
21:29:18 [asir]
Additional Information / File Extension
21:30:43 [Katy]
Asir: there is a process for getting the mime type
21:31:33 [Katy]
Bob: Do folk think this might be an appropriate solution - think about for next time
21:31:37 [Yves]
I would note
21:31:50 [Katy]
Bob: Also reviewing of primers for next time
21:32:00 [Katy]
... I would like to get to CR status
21:32:27 [Katy]
... Any objections to end of 2nd week of December for CR
21:33:07 [Katy]
Bob: Will open a bug for Anish's comment
21:33:35 [Tom_Rutt]
21:33:36 [Katy]
Bob: CR is formal step saying we think we are done and call for implementations
21:33:53 [Bob_]
ack tom
21:33:53 [Katy]
... any formal objections that exist need to be presented
21:34:08 [Katy]
Tom: will all the at-risk stuff be done during CR?
21:34:44 [asir]
21:35:01 [Bob_]
ack asir
21:35:03 [Katy]
Bob: yes in order to promote to cr at risk needs to be identified, we think we have 2 implementations for each spec (except enum)
21:35:44 [dug]
q+ for an AOB topic
21:35:57 [Katy]
Bob: I will be asking between now and CR to check whether implementors will be covering optional apsects of the spec in order to establish the at risk features.
21:38:47 [Bob_]
ack dug
21:38:47 [Zakim]
dug, you wanted to discuss an AOB topic
21:38:53 [Katy]
Yves: We can progress to CR and then indicate that we require additional implementations
21:39:35 [asir]
21:39:36 [Katy]
Doug: Gil recently sent a scenario doc for WS-Eventing, I think it would be good to extend this scenario to all specifications
21:39:44 [Bob_]
ack asir
21:39:45 [Katy]
21:39:51 [Bob_]
ack katy
21:40:18 [Katy]
Katy: this will also illustrate how specs compose together
21:41:23 [Katy]
Bob: This suggestion may have an impact of the maintenence independence of the specs but as scenarios are not normatively referenced, this should not cause a problem
21:41:26 [asir]
Asir: apologies - we have not yet considered this one
21:42:21 [Katy]
Bob: consider this and make a decision asap in order to move along
21:42:45 [Katy]
Bob: Next week intend to have a very brief call
21:44:02 [Katy]
Bob: This does not suit all so next meeting on 30th November (no meeting next week)
21:45:24 [Zakim]
- +1.571.262.aacc
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21:45:40 [Bob_]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:45:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Bob_
21:45:42 [Zakim]
- +44.196.281.aaaa
21:47:02 [Bob_]
rrsagent, are you busy?
21:47:02 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'are you busy'
21:47:19 [Bob_]
rrsagent. generate minutes
21:47:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Yves
21:47:47 [Bob_]
404 :-(
21:47:53 [Yves]
works now
21:48:01 [Bob_]
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disconnecting the lone participant, Tom_Rutt, in WS_WSRA()3:30PM
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WS_WSRA()3:30PM has ended
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Attendees were +44.196.281.aaaa, Gilbert_Pilz, Doug_Davis, Bob_Freund, +1.908.696.aabb, Ashok_Malhotra, Tom_Rutt, asir, Wei, +1.571.262.aacc, Yves, Wu_Chou
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