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16:07:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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16:07:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 98765
16:07:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start 7 minutes ago
16:07:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference
16:07:29 <trackbot> Date: 12 November 2010
16:07:34 <Christine> Yolanda: Discussing report. Needs to go into official format.
16:07:45 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
16:08:00 <Christine> Paul: Report would benefit from an overall introduction.
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16:13:57 <Christine> [Discussion of structure of report] 
16:14:09 <Christine> Yolanda: Need to explain the need for provenance at the beginning.
16:15:16 <Christine> Paulo: Final report needs to be consistent with text in wiki.
16:17:26 <Christine> Yolanda: The information does not have to be presented in the same way. Want a structure that is helpful for people new to provenance.
16:19:38 <Christine> Yolanda: Christine volunteered to edit the final report. In doing this she can also provide the perspective of a reader new to provenance.
16:21:58 <Christine> Paul: Suggest move paragraphs re statistics in terms on dimensions in provencance dimensions in the importance of provenance
16:24:59 <Christine> Yolanda: We might be missing use cases of provenance so a bit worried about having statistics. The most useful statistic is that they highlight a variety of things.
16:26:35 <Christine> Paulo: Why are we only focusing on the 3 use cases?
16:27:12 <Christine> Yolanda: Because they have coverage over the dimensions and the use cases - to exemplify the issues.
16:27:47 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/State_of_the_Art_Report is done
16:28:10 <Christine> Jim: State of the Art Report is now done.
16:29:13 <Christine> Jim: If just a list Paul suggested just point to wiki page. Do we expand more?
16:29:26 <ssahoo2> I agree - brief description of vocabularies is good
16:29:49 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Final_Report_Draft#Relevant_technologies
16:30:14 <DGarijo> +q
16:30:35 <ssahoo2> I think it is redundant to certain extent
16:31:49 <ssahoo2> I think removing the repeated vocabularies will be helpful
16:35:14 <pgroth> agree
16:35:21 <smiles> yes
16:35:40 <Christine> [? Re relevant technologies - list in an appendix]
16:36:32 <Christine> [Events related to provenance - important to show that there is a lot of activity but perhaps move to an appendix]
16:37:07 <DGarijo> -q
16:37:13 <Christine> Yolanda: Suggest listing recurring series
16:37:25 <ssahoo2> agree
16:38:00 <Christine> Yolanda: Might merge with literature survey
16:41:11 <pgroth> looks good
16:42:53 <Christine> [Consensus - provenance voculabury is in the right section]
16:44:56 <Christine> Jim: Current technology discussion - longer or shorter?
16:45:42 <Christine> Yolanda: Concern - here we only cite a few - but have mentioned lots of references elsewhere
16:46:13 <Christine> Yolanda: perhaps put a pointer and say it is not an exhaustive list (qualifier)
16:48:07 <Christine> Paul; Could remove inline references because just examples and reference elsewhere
16:49:21 <Christine> Paul: I don't think the big table is particularly useful in this report.
16:49:55 <DGarijo> don't remove it,  move it to the bibliography page.
16:50:07 <pgroth> yes
16:50:31 <DGarijo> great
16:51:35 <Christine> Simon: Roadmap - different sections written by different authors
16:52:03 <Christine> Simon: Is there something people particularly want to see in this section?
16:54:04 <Christine> Yolanda: Recommendations - are actually high-level, not comprehensive, most pressing ones we extracted - in short-term/long-term priority section - could say see these recurring themes ...core set of concepts
16:55:04 <pgroth> So you should introduce the recommendations
16:55:06 <pgroth> :-)
16:55:14 <Christine> The group analysed the scenarios and looking at the scenarios - were some themes recurring and important - following 3 very important that provenance should address
16:55:38 <pgroth> yeah akk!
16:55:43 <pgroth> :-
16:55:45 <pgroth> :-)
16:56:35 <pgroth> eliminate all C-Attr
16:56:36 <pgroth> :-)
16:56:46 <SamCoppens> ok
16:57:14 <Christine> Yolanda: Provenance in Web Architecture - could add something that Olaf drafted
16:57:55 <Christine> Yolanda: Only a couple of telecons left. How to most effectively draft a charter?
16:58:42 <Christine> Yolanda: Temporal constraint to finish by 30 November 2010.
16:59:30 <pgroth> +q
17:00:32 <Christine> Paul: Suggest upload draft on the wiki and people provide comments there.
17:00:35 <pgroth> q-
17:00:36 <DGarijo> +1 to the third idea. It is allways better start from something rather than start a new charter.
17:00:46 <Paulo> q+
17:01:10 <ssahoo2> I think an interactive version of the Luc+Paul charter with deadline for putting in all comments and then have a telcon to discuss the comments would be helpful
17:01:55 <Christine> Yolanda: Yes, follow that approach
17:01:55 <YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Proposal_for_a_Working_Group_on_Provenance
17:02:57 <Christine> Paulo: Better to have a more collectively drafted document.
17:05:03 <Christine> Yolanda: Understand that Paul is asking us to suggest changes via the wiki.
17:05:48 <Christine> Yolanda: Maybe a call next week might be useful - to converge faster
17:06:43 <Christine> Paul: Think collectively rewriting document is faster.
17:08:21 <pgroth> amen, specifics are good
17:10:58 <pgroth> sure
17:12:32 <pgroth> cool
17:15:03 <YolandaGil> Paulo will work on sending out a list of concrete issues that would be good to change in the charter put forward by Luc and Paul, perhaps having Jim's help
17:15:56 <YolandaGil> We expect that many items in this list will be agreable, but will also be better able to identify what needs to be further discussed.
17:30:18 <YolandaGil> Paulo will circulate this list by early next week so we can discuss by email and if needed have a telecon before the weekly group's telecon next Friday.
17:30:32 <YolandaGil> We need to do as much work as possible since we have 2 weeks left.
17:35:55 <YolandaGil> rrsagent, set log public
17:36:05 <YolandaGil> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:36:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/12-prov-xg-minutes.html YolandaGil
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