20:55:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webfonts
20:55:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-irc
20:55:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
20:55:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webfonts
20:55:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
20:55:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
20:55:48 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
20:55:48 <trackbot> Date: 10 November 2010
20:55:55 <ChrisL> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0017.html
20:56:00 <ChrisL> Chair: Vlad
20:56:45 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has now started
20:56:52 <Zakim> + +1.781.970.aaaa
20:58:01 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:58:14 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
20:58:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.781.970.aaaa, ChrisL
20:58:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, ChrisL, Vlad, trackbot
20:58:41 <Vlad> zakim, +1.781.970.aaaa is Vlad
20:58:41 <Zakim> +Vlad; got it
20:58:52 <erik> erik has joined #webfonts
20:59:16 <jdaggett> jdaggett has joined #webfonts
20:59:40 <jfkthame_afk> jfkthame_afk has joined #webfonts
21:00:01 <tal> tal has joined #webfonts
21:00:29 <Zakim> + +44.845.397.aabb
21:01:05 <Zakim> + +1.443.895.aacc
21:01:23 <ChrisL> scribe: ChrisL
21:01:30 <Zakim> + +1.425.213.aadd
21:01:37 <jfkthame> zakim, aabb is jfkthame
21:01:37 <Zakim> +jfkthame; got it
21:01:40 <Zakim> + +1.408.536.aaee
21:01:57 <ChrisL> zakim, aaee is cslye
21:01:57 <Zakim> +cslye; got it
21:02:12 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
21:02:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vlad, ChrisL, jfkthame, +1.443.895.aacc, +1.425.213.aadd, cslye
21:02:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see tal, jfkthame, jdaggett, erik, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisL, Vlad, trackbot
21:02:25 <Zakim> + +31.70.360.aaff
21:02:35 <cslye> cslye has joined #webfonts
21:02:39 <ChrisL> zakim, aaff is Erik
21:02:39 <Zakim> +Erik; got it
21:02:44 <tal> zakim, aacc is tal
21:02:44 <Zakim> +tal; got it
21:03:06 <cslye> "Working Online For Fun"?
21:03:56 <jdaggett> kinda catchy no?
21:04:24 <erik> Isn't that supposed to read "Working Online For Free" ?
21:05:00 <ChrisL> Topic: Recent comments
21:05:13 <ChrisL> Vlad: some good discussion online recently
21:05:42 <ChrisL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0013.html
21:06:18 <ChrisL> Vlad: publication date is Nov 16, seems ok, ends before holiday season
21:06:38 <ChrisL> Vlad: any problem withthat date?
21:06:43 <ChrisL> (none heard)
21:07:35 <cslye> Yes, thanks Chris for all your scribing.
21:07:37 <ChrisL> regrets: dave crossland, john hudson
21:08:26 <ChrisL> Vlad: comments from Tal on metadata http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0009.html
21:09:39 <ChrisL> Vlad: comments from David Singer http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2010Nov/0013.html
21:10:26 <ChrisL> ChrisL: makes sense to pad aftyer last table if something follows
21:10:59 <ChrisL> jfkthame: think the code for sfnt2woff leaves meta and private unpadded, but padds all font tables
21:11:16 <ChrisL> ... need to check code to be sure
21:11:49 <ChrisL> Vlad: failing on lack of padding at end is not needed
21:12:02 <ChrisL> ... for the last data block
21:12:31 <ChrisL> tal: advantage is that ist clear, OT is ambiguous and this led to problems
21:13:05 <ChrisL> ... validator requires padding 
21:13:20 <ChrisL> ChrisL: also for uncompressed tables, can be used directly
21:14:11 <ChrisL> Vlad: need to review text, currently its unclear or contradictory
21:14:48 <ChrisL> erik: don't weant to break existing fonts
21:15:04 <erik> (that was tal)
21:15:08 <ChrisL> jfkthame: tool leaves meta and private unpadded if they are the last in the file
21:15:18 <ChrisL> ... font tables always padded
21:15:27 <ChrisL> ... metapadded if private follows
21:15:48 <ChrisL> s/erik: don't/tal: don't/
21:16:45 <ChrisL> jfkthame: spec and tool always require padding of all font tables including the last one
21:18:02 <ChrisL> Vlad: so we should, in section 6, modify text of para 4 to say that if meta is followd by private, meta must be padded to four byte boundary
21:18:11 <ChrisL> ... unless its already on a boundary
21:18:27 <jfkthame> see http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-WOFF-20100727/#Metadata for older wording
21:19:10 <ChrisL> jfkthame: WD from July said meta is not padded unless followed by private
21:20:00 <ChrisL> cslye: can we just say all tables start on 4 byte boundary and pad to make that so
21:21:04 <ChrisL> Vlad: looking for minimal spec change for clarity
21:21:30 <ChrisL> ... if meta is followed by private
21:21:59 <ChrisL> cslye: we can leave out language on 'if followed'
21:23:25 <ChrisL> ChrisL: can we say 0..3 bytes of padding?
21:24:02 <ChrisL> Vlad: we can say no additional padding is needed
21:24:19 <ChrisL> ... if private is present it must begin on the nearest four byte boundary
21:24:42 <ChrisL> ... after private no padding is necessary
21:25:39 <ChrisL> erik: no need for padding if meta is the last block
21:26:35 <ChrisL> Vlad: must begin on a four byte boundary with 0..3 null bytes as padding
21:28:21 <ChrisL> action: jfkthame to fix up the padding wording per 10 Nov telcon
21:28:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-41 - Fix up the padding wording per 10 Nov telcon [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:28:33 <ChrisL> jfkthame: is trailing padding allowed?
21:28:55 <ChrisL> Vlad: change must to should, padding is ok if tool adds it
21:29:21 <ChrisL> erik: easier for tools to always add padding
21:29:40 <ChrisL> Vlad: agree ther eis no need to reject if the trailing padding is absent
21:30:17 <erik> (sergey, not erik)
21:30:23 <ChrisL> cslye: in private, there is good language about up to three bytes, can we reuse that?
21:30:41 <ChrisL> Vlad: font tables always padded so meta always syarts ona four byte boundary
21:31:12 <ChrisL> s/erik: easier/sergey: easier/
21:31:57 <ChrisL> jfkthame: ok, that works
21:32:15 <ChrisL> Vlad: that deals with one of dave singers comments and one of mine
21:32:32 <ChrisL> Vlad: chris suggested language for what 'valid metadata' means
21:32:43 <ChrisL> (no objection)
21:33:01 <ChrisL> action: jfkthame to update defination of valid metadata
21:33:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-42 - Update defination of valid metadata [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:33:28 <ChrisL> 'valid metadata is well formed, matches the schema and is compressed'
21:33:56 <ChrisL> jfkthame: why is it needed?
21:34:21 <ChrisL> Vlad: concern was whether rejection on uncompressed or not well formed was neeeded
21:34:29 <ChrisL> Vlad: or avoid the term valid
21:35:39 <ChrisL> Vlad: now on the metadata
21:36:23 <ChrisL> Vlad: uniqueid element is optional but if present, the attribute should be required
21:36:43 <ChrisL> ChrisL: spec does not say that explicitly, the schema does require it
21:37:59 <ChrisL> Vlad: spec says that in a discrepancy between spec and schema, the text takes precedence. so the text needs to be clear here
21:38:45 <ChrisL> action: jfkthame to clarify that @id on uniqueid is required
21:38:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Clarify that @id on uniqueid is required [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:39:16 <ChrisL> Vlad: next one is a typo, credits element must contain at least one credit element, the must is lowwrcase, should be MUST
21:40:13 <ChrisL> jfkthame: all of the elements say that they must be a child of the metadata element, maybe all of these should be MUST
21:40:41 <ChrisL> Vlad: language on text subelements says they are localisable but does not say that you need at least one of them
21:41:26 <ChrisL> action: jfkthame to clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements
21:41:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Clarify schema language in text to say one or more text elements [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:41:40 <ChrisL> jfkthame: but they can still make empty text elements
21:42:24 <ChrisL> Vlad: item element as part of extyension element, current text says at least one should. should be a MUST
21:42:44 <ChrisL> ... otherwise you can have an empty extension element
21:43:03 <ChrisL> jfkthame: what is the harm?
21:43:17 <ChrisL> (we go with NUST)
21:43:24 <ChrisL> s/NUST/MUST/
21:43:43 <ChrisL> action: jfkthame to make item element a required chilkd of extension
21:43:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Make item element a required chilkd of extension [on Jonathan Kew - due 2010-11-17].
21:43:59 <ChrisL> Vlad: couple of missed testable assertions
21:44:38 <ChrisL> action chris to add the two missing conformance statements and split out the stylesheet
21:44:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Add the two missing conformance statements and split out the stylesheet [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-17].
21:44:54 <ChrisL> Vlad: some minor changes from jdaggett as well
21:45:15 <ChrisL> (agree with jdaggett changes)
21:46:25 <ChrisL> ChrisL: feedback was that getting a font/ top level type was a lot of lengthy work
21:46:34 <ChrisL> Vlad: nice to have but risk of delay
21:47:08 <Zakim> -Erik
21:47:23 <ChrisL> Vlad: if that is the consensus we could go straight with application/font-woff
21:48:04 <Zakim> +Erik
21:48:07 <ChrisL> ChrisL: this could easily consume a year or two . hard to justify
21:48:46 <ChrisL> resolved: go with application/font-woff
21:49:40 <ChrisL> action: chris to edit the media registration to say application/font-woff
21:49:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Edit the media registration to say application/font-woff [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-11-17].
21:49:56 <ChrisL> action-23?
21:49:56 <trackbot> ACTION-23 -- Jonathan Kew to verify whether, with zlib, it's possible to have a stream that allows an EOF midstream, so extra data can be padded on mid-stream. -- due 2010-08-24 -- CLOSED
21:49:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/23
21:50:08 <ChrisL> action-33?
21:50:08 <trackbot> ACTION-33 -- Chris Lilley to write up the proposed text for WOFF processing model -- due 2010-10-27 -- OPEN
21:50:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/33
21:50:13 <ChrisL> close action-33
21:50:13 <trackbot> ACTION-33 Write up the proposed text for WOFF processing model closed
21:50:38 <ChrisL> close action-34
21:50:38 <trackbot> ACTION-34 Add id and class to testable assertions closed
21:51:07 <ChrisL> close action-39
21:51:07 <trackbot> ACTION-39 Write to iesg suggesting font/ top level type closed
21:51:31 <ChrisL> close action-40
21:51:32 <trackbot> ACTION-40 Add a media type registration remplate for woff, omitting the top level type closed
21:51:57 <ChrisL> topic: decision to request last call
21:52:02 <ChrisL> Vlad: any objections?
21:52:04 <ChrisL> (none)
21:52:14 <ChrisL> resolved: request last call for woff specification
21:52:23 <ChrisL> Vlad: timeframe for spec edits?
21:52:55 <ChrisL> jfkthame: will do tomorrow
21:53:29 <ChrisL> Vlad: please send email to list once spec edits are done. we will then consider it ready for publication
21:53:56 <ChrisL> adjourned
21:54:03 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
21:54:03 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ChrisL, Vlad, +44.845.397.aabb, +1.443.895.aacc, +1.425.213.aadd, jfkthame, +1.408.536.aaee, cslye, +31.70.360.aaff, Erik, tal
21:55:39 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
21:55:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/10-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
21:55:58 <Zakim> -cslye
21:56:01 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:56:02 <Zakim> -tal
21:56:02 <Zakim> -Vlad
21:56:03 <Zakim> - +1.425.213.aadd
21:56:09 <Zakim> -Erik
21:56:11 <Zakim> -jfkthame
21:56:12 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended
21:56:13 <Zakim> Attendees were ChrisL, Vlad, +44.845.397.aabb, +1.443.895.aacc, +1.425.213.aadd, jfkthame, +1.408.536.aaee, cslye, +31.70.360.aaff, Erik, tal
21:56:26 <erik> erik has left #webfonts
21:56:36 <cslye> cslye has left #webfonts