IRC log of lld on 2010-11-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:00 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #lld
13:56:00 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc
13:56:28 [markva]
markva has joined #lld
13:56:28 [emma]
zakim, this will be lld
13:56:28 [Zakim]
ok, emma; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:56 [Marcia]
Marcia has joined #lld
13:58:04 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:07 [TomB]
TomB has joined #lld
13:58:19 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
13:58:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were
13:58:53 [rayd]
rayd has joined #lld
13:59:02 [pmurray]
pmurray has joined #lld
13:59:06 [emma]
zakim, this will be lld
13:59:08 [Zakim]
ok, emma; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:12 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:59:20 [antoine]
antoine has joined #lld
13:59:59 [emma]
present: jeff, markva, emma
14:00:12 [whalb]
whalb has joined #lld
14:00:20 [ww]
Zakim!
14:00:50 [jar]
jar has joined #lld
14:02:19 [emma]
present+: Ray, Marcia, Antoine, TomB, Pmurray
14:02:32 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:02:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-minutes.html antoine
14:02:38 [emma]
present+: jar
14:03:06 [edsu]
Zakim: [LC] is edsu
14:03:33 [edsu]
Zakim, [LC] is edsu
14:03:33 [Zakim]
sorry, edsu, I do not recognize a party named '[LC]'
14:03:35 [emma]
present+: edsu,
14:03:44 [jar]
zakim, this is lld
14:03:44 [Zakim]
jar, this was already INC_LLDXG()10:00AM
14:03:45 [ww]
TomB: please ask about the perpetually busy bristol number as well if you can... would rather not call america unnecessarily... i keep waiting for the university administrators to come and grill me about phone bills :P
14:03:46 [Zakim]
ok, jar; that matches INC_LLDXG()10:00AM
14:03:59 [ww]
oh, nvm
14:04:06 [TomB]
ww: I'm not getting an operator.
14:04:09 [antoine]
Regrets+ karen, gordon, felix
14:04:12 [emma]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:04:33 [antoine]
regrets+ tod
14:04:35 [emma]
forget it, Tom
14:05:03 [antoine]
Meeting: LLD XG
14:05:07 [antoine]
Chair: Antoin
14:05:12 [antoine]
s/Antoin/Antoine
14:05:17 [emma]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:05:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-minutes.html emma
14:05:42 [antoine]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0008.html
14:05:50 [antoine]
zakim, who is here?
14:05:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see no one
14:05:51 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jar, whalb, antoine, pmurray, rayd, TomB, Marcia, markva, RRSAgent, Zakim, jodi, emma, jeff_, rsinger, edsu, digikim, ww
14:06:11 [emma]
zakim, please dial in
14:06:11 [Zakim]
I am sorry, emma; I do not know a number for in
14:06:38 [emma]
zakim, dial +1-617-761-6200
14:06:38 [Zakim]
I am sorry, emma; I do not know a number for +1-617-761-6200
14:07:39 [bvatant]
bvatant has joined #lld
14:07:42 [jar]
zakim, what is the code?
14:07:42 [Zakim]
the conference code is 55394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), jar
14:07:49 [antoine]
Zakim, pick a victim
14:07:49 [Zakim]
I don't see anyone present, antoine
14:08:28 [antoine]
Scribe: William
14:08:32 [antoine]
Scribenick: ww
14:08:46 [antoine]
rrsagent, please make record public
14:08:49 [AlexanderH]
AlexanderH has joined #lld
14:09:20 [ww]
antoine: let's start, sorry for the delay and trouble with Zakim...
14:09:28 [emma]
present+: AlexanderH
14:09:39 [ww]
... the first topic is admin
14:09:50 [emma]
present+: Bernard
14:10:00 [antoine]
Topic: Admin
14:10:04 [ww]
TOPIC: ADMIN
14:10:22 [ww]
... propose to accept the minutes of previous teleconference
14:10:25 [ww]
... objections?
14:10:32 [bvatant]
zakim mute me
14:10:34 [ww]
RESOLVED: ACCEPT MINUTES OF PREVIOUS TELECON
14:10:54 [ww]
... next... the report on the pittsburgh f2f meeting
14:11:07 [antoine]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/22-lld-minutes.html
14:11:15 [ww]
... i sent around this week the cleaned version of the joint meeting with the W3C ... Architecture....
14:11:22 [TomB]
+1 well done re: Joint Meeting minutes! :-)
14:11:25 [ww]
... propose to also accept these minutes today
14:11:33 [ww]
... so we can send them around to the wider audience
14:11:44 [ww]
RESOLVED: ACCEPT MINUTES OF PITTSBURGH F2F
14:12:01 [ww]
s/F2F/JOINT MEETING/
14:12:11 [markva]
antoine++
14:12:43 [ww]
RESOLVED ACCEPT MINUTES AND OUTCOMES OF PITTSBURGH F2F MEETING
14:13:08 [ww]
... before next item i have a question: is the current agenda complete?
14:13:22 [ww]
... anyone have something that is not listed, use cases, vocabularies?
14:13:31 [ww]
... as you have maybe noticed this agenda is really long
14:13:48 [ww]
... idea is to keep the agenda long so we have a place where relevant stuff is listed...
14:14:06 [ww]
... they will be at least available for the summary so that everyone is aware
14:14:09 [TomB]
q+ to point out that http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases#Cluster:_Digital_objects is missing (as pointed out on the list) - am adding to next week's agenda
14:14:19 [ww]
... don't expect we will go through the entire agenda
14:14:24 [antoine]
ack TomB
14:14:24 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to point out that http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases#Cluster:_Digital_objects is missing (as pointed out on the list) - am adding to next week's
14:14:25 [ww]
... anyone noticed anything missing?
14:14:27 [Zakim]
... agenda
14:14:35 [ww]
TomB: pointed out on the list that cluster on digital objects is missing
14:14:43 [ww]
... so adding that to next week's agenda
14:14:54 [ww]
bvatant: what is missing
14:14:58 [ww]
TomB: digital objects
14:15:01 [ww]
bvatant: i'm part of that
14:15:08 [ww]
antoine: ...
14:15:18 [ww]
... missing cluster, citations
14:15:26 [ww]
... have name of cluster with wrong names
14:15:38 [ww]
... tom will take care of updating that point
14:15:40 [ww]
... anything else?
14:15:55 [ww]
... ok, if you notice something that is missing, please send a mail before the next teleconference
14:16:20 [ww]
... moving on to the next topic
14:16:27 [ww]
TOPIC: USE CASES AND CASE STUDIES
14:16:45 [ww]
... as opposed to what is listed in the agenda we have six clusters and not five
14:17:04 [ww]
... was some discussion on the plans of the digital objects cluster team, so maybe you want to say something here to explain a bit?
14:17:45 [ww]
markva: which tasks do we have? the first would be to consider which UCs actually belong to our cluster... might be some overlap with the citation cluster?
14:18:00 [ww]
... main thing is to come to a more structured or homogenized sdescription of the UCs
14:18:08 [ww]
... we have really a lot of UCs
14:18:15 [ww]
... can probably not just append them to some part of our report
14:18:22 [ww]
... goals are reported very differently
14:18:26 [ww]
... but are recurring themes
14:18:39 [ww]
... what i did is try in email to the list just like the topics and requirements that we did before
14:18:54 [ww]
... try to come up with a list of a code and description for the goal
14:19:02 [ww]
... see if we can replace the goal text with these goal codes
14:19:11 [ww]
... meeting yesterday with people from digital clusters team
14:19:33 [ww]
... thought it would be useful to get your opinion of that and see if we can adopt that methodology for other clusters...
14:19:36 [antoine]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Cluster_Digital_Objects#Minutes_2010-11-03
14:20:02 [ww]
antoine: at first glance it seems to me that these concerns are really right to the point
14:20:31 [ww]
... i would say that perhaps it's a bit premature to discuss that today if the other clusters have not really thought about the work they have to do on their own use case
14:20:42 [emma]
q+
14:20:45 [ww]
... but we should really have a discussion very soon because i see clearly the problems
14:20:54 [antoine]
zakim, ack emma
14:20:54 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:20:54 [ww]
markva: would be nice if would respond on the list...
14:21:28 [ww]
emma: suggest if you want to curate the goals of all the use case clusters, it would be nice to havea wiki page... start with the goals that markva's cluster has identified
14:21:33 [ww]
... so we only have one page
14:21:34 [edsu]
s/digital clusters/digital object cluster/
14:21:39 [ww]
... not many pages
14:21:51 [ww]
antoine: wouldn't that cause lots of duplication
14:22:14 [ww]
markva: i think its the same thing as the requirements and topics... need a place to list them , discuss , curate... i think its very handy
14:22:26 [ww]
emma: also wondering how much these goals overlap with requirements
14:22:38 [ww]
... there is wiki page with requirements... almost empty
14:22:48 [ww]
... if you have the goals... what would be the requirements?
14:23:07 [ww]
markva: maybe the goals are a good place to start... if we get that coherently than we can move on to the dimensions and requirements
14:23:09 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:23:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-minutes.html antoine
14:23:20 [ww]
... goals are hte most basic thing that use cases can accomplish
14:23:27 [ww]
... requirements can be something more detailed
14:23:48 [ww]
antoine: if the digital object cluster team is happy to start such a goal place then you are welcome to start it
14:24:00 [ww]
... we can see if we find the same things with the other clusters
14:24:06 [AlexanderH]
q+
14:24:11 [ww]
... or at least on a similar level, i could see the goals being different
14:24:19 [antoine]
zakim, ack AlexanderH
14:24:19 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:24:20 [ww]
AlexanderH: actually antoie i think you are right
14:24:24 [ww]
... they should be different
14:24:33 [edsu]
markva's email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Nov/0003.html
14:24:41 [ww]
... but actually much of the goals are detailed
14:24:53 [ww]
... if you want to keep the detailed goals the way they are i'm not sure it makes sense
14:25:19 [ww]
markva: that's a good point, what i did, the iinitial list we have now is a refelection of the goals people have put into the use cacses
14:25:23 [ww]
... that's really all it is
14:25:38 [ww]
... if it's too detailed we need to make up our mind what is a goal and what is too detailed
14:25:47 [ww]
... at least this discussion needs to be initiated
14:25:56 [ww]
antoine: ok, let's start the discussion in the coming days
14:26:02 [ww]
... that's for the methodological side of it
14:26:23 [ww]
... we also have to be more concrete and think of shepherds or rapporteurs to ...
14:26:39 [ww]
... have action on the agenda for people not at the F2F to volunteer to shepherd
14:26:52 [antoine]
ACTION: People who didn't attend the face-to-face should volunteer to shepherd a new use case. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action06]
14:26:55 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
14:27:09 [ww]
... if we go to list of use cases
14:27:10 [antoine]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCases
14:27:28 [ww]
... jodi has indicated for the individual use cases if they are lacking a shepherd or not
14:27:40 [ww]
... turns out we have a bit more than the seven that are listed as orphaned on the agenda
14:27:46 [AlexanderH]
one hint I think the detailed goals should be kept this way and not be generalized
14:27:52 [ww]
... so really if people can volunteer to take care of them that will be really welcome
14:27:55 [jodi]
there are 10 orphaned
14:27:57 [ww]
... need to sort that really soon
14:27:57 [AlexanderH]
not like scribed
14:28:01 [TomB]
q+
14:28:10 [antoine]
zakim, ack TomB
14:28:10 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:28:13 [ww]
... if there are cases that are not in clusters we might miss something really important
14:28:44 [ww]
TomB: would be good if people who could not attend the F2F could volunteer to take care of the remaining cases because otherwise the work will fall disproportionately on the people who were able to attend
14:28:51 [ww]
... would be good to distribute that a little bit better
14:29:16 [emma]
q+
14:29:24 [ww]
antoine: actually i'm looking at hte list of the cases and the ones for which jodi indicated they were lacking shepherds and there are some that are already clustered and i'm a bit suprised
14:29:28 [antoine]
zakim, ack emma
14:29:29 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:29:41 [ww]
emma: just that some of the use cases that didnt have a rapporteur were adopted
14:29:51 [ww]
... wasn't necessarily presented
14:30:02 [ww]
antoine: for example, use case data in ???
14:30:15 [ww]
... had a small presentation on that was it by gordon?
14:30:20 [antoine]
s/???/Use Case Linked Data and legacy library applications
14:30:24 [ww]
emma: authorclaim
14:31:06 [ww]
antoine: the next one that is orphaned is the... XXX project...
14:31:17 [ww]
marcia are you around can you take care of this use case?
14:31:22 [ww]
marcia: what should we do?
14:31:34 [ww]
antoine: in your case just be prepared to act as the shepherd for that use case
14:31:40 [antoine]
s/XXX/Archipel
14:31:43 [ww]
... the curators of the cluster may as kyou some qustions
14:32:00 [ww]
... in your specific case it would be nice if you could send the presentation that you showed me to the list
14:32:32 [ww]
antoine: and then the other use cases that have no shepherd are in the not yet cluster
14:32:58 [antoine]
ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02]
14:33:01 [ww]
antoine: ok so then we have all the actions on people to curate clusters....
14:33:02 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
14:33:04 [ww]
--CONTINUES
14:33:14 [antoine]
ACTION: Kai and Ed to curate citations cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action03]
14:33:17 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
14:34:04 [ww]
bvatant: i think you said you were in that one as well (that one digital objects cluster)
14:34:14 [ww]
s/bvatant/antoine/
14:34:21 [ww]
bvatant: i'm not aware of that....
14:34:34 [ww]
antoine: i think i've seen your name in irc channel
14:34:37 [antoine]
ACTION: Mark (and Jodi and Asaf) to curate digital objects cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action04]
14:34:40 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
14:34:41 [ww]
bvatant: i think this was a mistake of the scribe
14:34:46 [emma]
People who didn't attend the F2F should volunteer to help curate the clusters
14:34:52 [antoine]
ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05]
14:34:57 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
14:35:03 [antoine]
ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06]
14:35:09 [antoine]
-CONTINUES
14:35:14 [ww]
--CONTINUES
14:35:16 [antoine]
ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07]
14:35:21 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
14:35:41 [ww]
antoine: then we have an action of people who were not at the F2F to volunteer to join a cluster
14:35:42 [antoine]
ACTION: People who were not at the face-to-face meeting volunteer to join a cluster [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action03]
14:35:47 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
14:35:55 [ww]
... not to have this continuing for a long time
14:36:05 [ww]
... maybe having one more week in which the people may volunteer
14:36:23 [ww]
... otherwise we have an issue with the curators knowing if they are alone or if someone will join after a while
14:36:35 [ww]
... unless someone sees it differently, would suggest to close the action next week
14:36:50 [ww]
emma: suggest to send around an email so that people not on the telecon will know they have to do something
14:36:56 [ww]
antoine: ok i will send something closer to the call
14:37:06 [ww]
... anyone have something to add to the use case topic before we moveon?
14:37:12 [ww]
TOPIC: TOPICS
14:37:37 [ww]
antoine: the first item to discuss is how we go forward with the topics and how we organise them into categories
14:37:57 [ww]
... first way is to use the wiki category system to connect use cases to topics
14:38:10 [ww]
... second proposal by bvatant to create rdf description of topics
14:38:15 [emma]
q+
14:38:23 [ww]
... next proposal have page with topics as subtitles
14:38:32 [ww]
jodi: i don't think we really talked about it any further
14:38:35 [antoine]
zakim, ack emme
14:38:35 [Zakim]
I see emma on the speaker queue
14:38:43 [emma]
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Category:LLD
14:38:50 [ww]
emma: i created something on the wiki just to show how it will look like, so i started to aggregate the categories and subcategories
14:38:59 [ww]
... here is what you get for a group of topics that are LLD
14:39:05 [ww]
... one page per subcategory
14:39:09 [ww]
... if you look at....
14:39:22 [ww]
... you can see you have a description of the topic
14:39:31 [ww]
... probably a good starting point if you want toe elaborate
14:39:48 [ww]
... copy and paste these pieces of text into the final report
14:39:50 [TomB]
q+
14:39:55 [ww]
... i think that's a useful way to go forward
14:40:04 [ww]
antoine: that was really some fleshing out of what jodi has proposed
14:40:09 [antoine]
zakim, ack TomB
14:40:09 [Zakim]
I see emma on the speaker queue
14:40:17 [antoine]
zakim, ack emma
14:40:17 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:40:24 [ww]
TomB: i just edited one of the category pages that emma set up
14:40:35 [ww]
... i think the issue here is, how do we get from an analysis of the parts
14:40:39 [ww]
... to a complete report
14:40:53 [ww]
... and the crux of the question is whether we want to keep everything in one document
14:40:59 [ww]
... editing sections of one big document
14:41:11 [ww]
... or easier to have many smaller documents
14:41:17 [ww]
... and consolidate them later on
14:41:29 [jodi]
with Transclusion, we could aggregate the individual pages: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Transclusion
14:41:33 [ww]
... initially i was in favour of consolidated document
14:41:49 [ww]
... but i see the advantages of smaller files for curators
14:41:50 [ww]
q+
14:41:52 [jar]
jar has left #lld
14:42:11 [emma]
ww: in favor of the latter
14:42:21 [emma]
... easier to build a big documents from small ones
14:42:22 [rsinger]
+1
14:42:22 [Marcia]
Are topics also have curators?
14:42:25 [ww]
jodi: actually you might have the solution
14:42:30 [ww]
... talking about transclusion
14:42:41 [ww]
... transclusion is a way of pulling small parts into a larger document
14:42:45 [ww]
... without copy and paste
14:42:56 [ww]
... can make a larger document by pulling together with transclusion
14:43:01 [ww]
transclusion++
14:43:02 [emma]
jodi+
14:43:02 [TomB]
+1 for smaller documents using transclusion
14:43:13 [emma]
not tested
14:43:18 [ww]
antoine: that does make sense... question is whether this stuff is activated in our wiki
14:43:26 [ww]
jodi: in media wiki it is activated by default
14:43:31 [ww]
... we should try it but i think so
14:43:40 [ww]
antoine: ok... could anyone have a try just to check?
14:44:05 [ww]
... if that works than that's clearly a point for the individual page solution to be the preferred one
14:44:27 [TomB]
q+
14:44:27 [ww]
... tom or emma or jodi could you make a small test because you have started editing these pages?
14:44:35 [ww]
jodi: ok, i can take a look
14:44:35 [bvatant]
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Transclusion
14:44:40 [ww]
antoine: thank you
14:44:42 [antoine]
zakim, ack Jodi
14:44:42 [Zakim]
I see ww, TomB on the speaker queue
14:44:55 [ww]
TomB: shoudl we take an action for jodi, having a proof of concept page that uses transclusion
14:45:14 [ww]
... that uses a lot of smaller pages... having that on the agenda for the next call would help us move forward
14:45:25 [ww]
ACTION: Jodi to make a proof of concept transclusion page for next week
14:45:45 [ww]
antoine: was also bvatant 's proposition of owl and rdf
14:46:04 [ww]
bvatant: actually i had a very sketchy model of what could be done about the current content, topics, use cases and so on...
14:46:12 [ww]
... i see that things have evolved quite a lot since the f2f
14:46:24 [ww]
... if this is interesting i have to revisit it on the basis of how things are now organised
14:46:32 [ww]
... i have nothing very interesting to show right now
14:46:39 [ww]
... but if people think its interesting to go this way
14:46:54 [ww]
... the idea is to have a model of what we are working on...
14:47:01 [ww]
... as rdf data... eating your own dog food
14:47:06 [TomB]
q+ to suggest that we focus on producing the document
14:47:11 [ww]
... but maybe the way jodi proposes is nmore efficient
14:47:24 [ww]
... i can continue the action, but don't expect something very efficient in the week to come
14:47:31 [edsu]
bvatant: i'm not either :-)
14:47:36 [ww]
... i have to catch up on everything that happened on the f2f and i'm not yet there
14:47:40 [edsu]
bvatant: and i was there! :-)
14:47:47 [antoine]
zakim, ack TomB
14:47:47 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to suggest that we focus on producing the document
14:47:48 [Zakim]
I see ww on the speaker queue
14:48:03 [ww]
TomB: what are our requirements here... i think our requirements is really to get the meeting notes to a draft of the report
14:48:20 [ww]
... i think its an interesting idea to use rdf descriptions, but i'm not sure what requirement that's meeting
14:48:30 [ww]
... not sure that would really help us move towards a completed report
14:48:43 [ww]
... unless the rdf would help us create interesting visualisations that we could use in the report
14:48:51 [antoine]
q+ to link to Paul's tool
14:48:59 [ww]
... otherwise i suggest we mmove on getting a rough draft ideally beforethe holidays
14:49:05 [antoine]
zakim, ack ww
14:49:05 [Zakim]
I see antoine on the speaker queue
14:49:12 [antoine]
zakim, ack me
14:49:12 [Zakim]
antoine, you wanted to link to Paul's tool
14:49:13 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:49:26 [ww]
antoine: to think about mentioning, TomB was talking about visualisation
14:49:39 [ww]
... wondering if bvatant 's idea of rdf description would
14:49:46 [ww]
... visualisation of clusters and vocabularies
14:49:54 [ww]
... perhaps this could be related to the topic as well
14:50:12 [bvatant]
q+
14:50:13 [ww]
... i would support what TomB said, but keep an eye on this idea of bvatant 's and try to relate them
14:50:23 [antoine]
zakim, ack bvatant
14:50:23 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:50:34 [ww]
bvatant: to go along with what TomB said to get on with the taks at hand and the bandwidth of everybody
14:50:42 [ww]
... doesn't seem like a priority task
14:50:57 [ww]
... unless it seems like it is useful for a visualisation purposes
14:51:16 [ww]
... maybe when the overall document structure is more settled
14:51:16 [TomB]
q+ to ask if Paul's tool is in the agenda - maybe Ed can comment?
14:51:20 [ww]
... will be easier to produce
14:51:26 [antoine]
zakim, ack TomB
14:51:26 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to ask if Paul's tool is in the agenda - maybe Ed can comment?
14:51:28 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:51:35 [ww]
TomB: occurs to me that paul's tool...
14:51:41 [ww]
... is it in the agenda?
14:51:48 [ww]
antoine: it is in the vocabulary section
14:51:52 [antoine]
->http://www.paulwalk.net/lldvis/
14:51:55 [ww]
... an item to report on exactly this
14:52:03 [emma]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:52:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-minutes.html emma
14:52:13 [ww]
... perhaps we can jump to that specific item right now if it's really close to the issue on this rdf discription
14:52:21 [ww]
... edsu do you have something to say?
14:52:24 [ww]
edsu: not right now
14:52:32 [ww]
antoine: ok we'll keep an eye and come back to it
14:52:39 [ww]
edsu: rdf description of what?
14:52:40 [TomB]
q+ to ask Ed how the tool works
14:52:59 [ww]
antoine: bvatant is proposing that we create and rdf description of the topics... i think htis would be more or less related to what paul has done
14:53:08 [ww]
edsu: what purpose would it serve?
14:53:16 [ww]
... other than eating our own tasteless dog food
14:53:30 [ww]
antoine: i think everyone agreed it might be a low priority item...
14:53:36 [emma]
present+: jodi, ww
14:53:39 [ww]
... have a mapping, more dynamic...
14:54:07 [ww]
antoine: not discuss it right now but ckeep it in mind for the future
14:54:14 [ww]
... something that might be a bit more urgent...
14:54:20 [antoine]
zakim, ack TomB
14:54:20 [Zakim]
TomB, you wanted to ask Ed how the tool works
14:54:20 [ww]
TomB: just wanted to ask edsu something
14:54:22 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:54:28 [ww]
... how does paul's tool work?
14:54:34 [ww]
... what's behind that?
14:54:46 [ww]
... is it something that can generate other visualisations that might be useful for the report?
14:55:00 [ww]
... what's your sense of the usefulness or how we can use the tool that paul put together
14:55:11 [ww]
edsu: my understanding is he bascically scrapted to wiki
14:55:14 [ww]
... using regexps
14:55:23 [ww]
... to get the data out into another form which he put into a database
14:55:28 [antoine]
-> http://www.paulwalk.net/lldvis/topics
14:55:32 [edsu]
https://github.com/paulwalk/lldvis/tree/master/test/fixtures/
14:55:33 [ww]
... and put the web app on top of it
14:55:35 [digikim]
ooops...
14:55:41 [ww]
... those are the database fixtures
14:55:43 [markva]
s/scrapted/scraped
14:55:44 [digikim]
I didn't notice that the start time had changed
14:55:50 [ww]
... the data he scraped out saved it off into these files
14:56:11 [ww]
... i don't know ho... you'd have to ask paul if the routines he wrote... are things that can be run routinely or not?
14:56:28 [Asaf]
Asaf has joined #lld
14:56:30 [ww]
TomB: it's available on github so in principle we could use this if we saw a need to extend it
14:56:35 [digikim]
emma: ok, thanks
14:56:43 [ww]
edsu: it's on github... he actually made it run somewhere on the web...
14:56:57 [Marcia]
q+ Back to the topics: what should be included in the topic pages Emma created? Who will contribute? Will they be curated?
14:57:05 [ww]
... he found it useful to grapple with.. because he's new to the group... to get an idea of the use cases etc.
14:57:12 [ww]
... used as a tool for himself to try to understand
14:57:20 [ww]
antoine: keep in agenda... come back to it a bt later
14:57:30 [antoine]
zakim, ack Marcia
14:57:30 [Zakim]
I see Back on the speaker queue
14:57:34 [ww]
Marcia: i want to get back to the topics pages that emma created
14:57:41 [emma]
ack Back
14:57:41 [Zakim]
Back, you wanted to the topics: what should be included in the topic pages Emma created? Who will contribute? Will they be curated?
14:57:42 [ww]
... i wonder what should be in each subtopic
14:57:48 [ww]
... who will contribute...
14:58:02 [ww]
... top the topics, the sub-pages
14:58:16 [emma]
q+
14:58:16 [ww]
antoine: first the fact that the topics are related to the use cases would be exteremely informative
14:58:21 [ww]
... there's no doubt about that
14:58:29 [ww]
... that's how the topic page started
14:58:41 [antoine]
zakim, ack emma
14:58:42 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
14:58:42 [ww]
... w.r.t. the content of the page, the description, the one liners could also be put there
14:58:47 [ww]
emma: wanted to make that a little clearere
14:59:10 [ww]
... when we're curating the use cases clusters we can add it to the topic by using two square brackets
14:59:18 [ww]
... and that will add it to the topic page
14:59:26 [edsu]
sorry, i had the wrong url for the data that paul scraped from the wiki: https://github.com/paulwalk/lldvis/blob/master/db/seeds.rb
14:59:26 [ww]
... and look in the minutes for more detail
14:59:43 [ww]
antoine: i think we have to wrap it very shortly, so keep this in the agenda for next time...
14:59:52 [ww]
... just have a quick rush on the actions
15:00:00 [ww]
... to check whether there is anything specific to say on that
15:01:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-minutes.html TomB
15:02:01 [emma]
present+: rsinger
15:02:35 [rsinger]
:)
15:02:39 [rayd]
Admin topic ...... next Thursday is a holiday in the US
15:02:43 [TomB]
Regrets+ Guenther, Joachim, Kai
15:02:46 [ww]
antoine: other business?
15:02:57 [rsinger]
?
15:02:57 [ww]
(continue all other actions)
15:03:12 [rsinger]
next thursday?
15:03:13 [ww]
antoine: if noone has any other comment....
15:03:23 [ww]
... thank you everyone for attending
15:03:32 [ww]
ADJOURNED
15:03:37 [markva]
bye!
15:03:41 [rsinger]
thanks!
15:03:52 [antoine]
ACTION: GordonD and antoine to study use cases that relate to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action01]
15:03:54 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:03:54 [jeff_]
jeff_ has left #lld
15:04:01 [antoine]
ACTION: Jeff to review the UK eGovernment document on identifiers. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action03]
15:04:04 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:04:09 [antoine]
ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching feature [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04]
15:04:12 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:04:17 [antoine]
ACTION: Emma and Antoine to create use case DATA.SEARCH-OPTIMIZATION [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action06]
15:04:21 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:04:31 [antoine]
ACTION: for each use case champion: on the Vocabularies page, link to each URL use case that uses it [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/mIncubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action01]
15:04:33 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:04:45 [antoine]
ACTION: Ross to create a page with LLD data sets on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html#action11]
15:04:48 [antoine]
--DONE
15:04:55 [antoine]
--> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_data_in_Semantic_Web_formats
15:05:02 [antoine]
ACTION: ww to present on how to use CKAN [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action01]
15:05:05 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:05:15 [antoine]
ACTION: on everyone to update the Events page (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/LLD/Events) on the wiki regularly [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action05]
15:05:19 [antoine]
--CONTINUES
15:05:23 [TomB]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:05:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-minutes.html TomB
15:07:30 [antoine]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:07:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-minutes.html antoine
15:08:19 [emma]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:08:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-minutes.html emma
15:09:38 [TomB]
http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc
15:11:06 [jodi]
jodi has left #LLD
15:21:12 [Zakim]
INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
15:21:13 [Zakim]
Attendees were
15:31:27 [emma]
zakim, bye
15:31:27 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #lld
15:31:33 [emma]
rrsagent, bye
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
I see 17 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-actions.rdf :
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: People who didn't attend the face-to-face should volunteer to shepherd a new use case. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action06] [1]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-26-52
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Karen and Emma to curate archive cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action02] [2]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-32-58
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Kai and Ed to curate citations cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action03] [3]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-33-14
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mark (and Jodi and Asaf) to curate digital objects cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action04] [4]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-34-37
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Gordon and Martin to curate bibliographic data cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action05] [5]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-34-52
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06] [6]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-35-03
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Antoine and Michael to curate vocabulary alignment cluster for end of december [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action07] [7]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-35-16
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: People who were not at the face-to-face meeting volunteer to join a cluster [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action03] [8]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-35-42
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jodi to make a proof of concept transclusion page for next week [9]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T14-45-25
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: GordonD and antoine to study use cases that relate to vocabulary merging use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action01] [10]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T15-03-52
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeff to review the UK eGovernment document on identifiers. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action03] [11]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T15-04-01
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alex, Jeff, Martin, MichaelP elaborate on general purpose IT architecture for dealing with linked data with caching feature [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action04] [12]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T15-04-09
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Emma and Antoine to create use case DATA.SEARCH-OPTIMIZATION [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action06] [13]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T15-04-17
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: for each use case champion: on the Vocabularies page, link to each URL use case that uses it [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/mIncubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action01] [14]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T15-04-31
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ross to create a page with LLD data sets on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html#action11] [15]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T15-04-45
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ww to present on how to use CKAN [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/28-lld-minutes.html#action01] [16]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T15-05-02
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: on everyone to update the Events page (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/LLD/Events) on the wiki regularly [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/24-lld-minutes.html#action05] [17]
15:31:33 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/11/04-lld-irc#T15-05-15