Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference

29 Oct 2010


See also: IRC log


Yolanda Gil


<trackbot> Date: 29 October 2010

<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Telecons#Scribing_for_the_Provenance_XG_Group

Yolanda: asking about the sections of the final report: size, wirk done, etc

James: maybe copy paste first, and then refine it

<pgroth> Scribe: dgarijo

James: any volunteers for helping in Business Contract Scenario?

<pgroth> james, just ping me if you need anything

James: It's all there, just have to write it down.

Yolanda: focus on the gap analysis
... Should the vocabulary mappings be part of the roadmap or the soa?

<ssahoo2> Some parts of the mapping can be referenced in the "State of the Art"?

Yolanda: It's worth mention it in the soa at least.

<ssahoo2> I can work with you on that James

I can offer my help too.

James: What should be there? and who should write it?

Simon: Roadmap
... 2-3 pages long
... 4 parts: When/what reccomendations become real, when are the technological requirements, and the when we think that use cases become feasible.

Paulo: Read all the use cases and done some classification according to the use cases and domain

Yolanda: the focus should be the scenarios, not the use cases

<pgroth> I like the domain idea

Paulo: Still need to figure out, make draft and send it to the group for feedback?
... We need a justification about why these use cases.


<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Use_Cases#Exemplifying_Provenance_Dimensions_with_Use_Cases

Yolanda: they were based on the groupings we made of provenance

Paulo: are the prov domensions described before the scenarios
... ?

Yolanda: We described the dimension as we described the requirements
... having the dimensions first is hard to describe

Paulo: Who is going to describe the dimensions?

Yolanda: maybe the dimensions should be in the requirements section

Paulo: how deep does the dimension need to be in the use cases?

<pgroth> +q

Yolanda: No need to name them.
... the dimension will be on the user requirements

Paulo: OK

Yolanda: size?

Paulo: 3 pages

<jcheney> can we put size estimates in wiki?

Paul: Really like the idea of using domain motivation.
... You don't need to motivate why you have the scenario
... happy to put the dimensions on the requirements section

Yolanda: November 12 is our target

<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/BibBase_Collection

<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/MendeleyCollection

<ssahoo2> Daniel: Discussing the bibliography work

<pgroth> +q

Paul: Nice to have both

<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Provenance_and_Web_Architecture

Yolanda: we will keep both. Bibbase frozen and Mendeley to add new entries
... move to architecture in Provenance
... Olaf, Luc, Paul and Yolanda working there.
... Luc 's presentation.

Luc: interesting to know what kind of feedback can we obtain from w3c
... 5 prov situations/ use cases for provenance

Yolanda: presentation which introduces all the group has done
... separated the slides about web architecture issues

Luc: Has a brainstorm to start with some ideas
... our goal was to get feedback from w3c also.
... looked at the http response pattern.
... some slides about prov in ws
... Communication pattern. Some prov info included in the answer
... different of passing prov information: by values and by reference
... A bit of overhead because some prov can be big
... the server has to keep the provenance for dynamic resources-> problematic
... ways to insert provenance: http header
... multipart messages. Content and provenance in 2 separate parts.
... RDF-a in html documents
... in pdf, support for metadata that can be used too
... Metrics of possibilities: inserting in the message, the content downloaded, by value, by reference.
... Provenance negotiation between client and server for identifying which representation should be returned.
... Provenance services out there: Times/Third parties
... Different versions of provenance and accounts is interesting too
... Leverage to use SPARQL instead of creating a new lenguage for wuerying
... Important to reuse what is there
... General comment: People very impressed with the presentation
... The ideas were very compatible with what they were thinking

Yolanda: We have clarified the idea of provenance

Luc: First question they had: they felt that not necessary to have a prov field but a metadata field
... Functionality which will be provenance specific?
... Another point raised: Provenance may have provenance
... Little discussion about passing it by value
... question about long term prov services.

<ssahoo2> I think provenance of provenance issue can be decided by the requirements of the application

Luc: What if the domain is moved. How do we find our prov?

<pgroth> yeah agree satya

<pgroth> it grounds out somewhere

The DC Metadata Task group is working about provenance metadata also

<pgroth> that's what we said on the call. and tim seemed to agree

Luc: Metadata framework to make prov available

<ssahoo2> sounds like an interesting discussion, I would have been interested in attending this call with W3C!

Yolanda: Some people would prefer xml
... we should try to maybe think about designing or coming up with a vocabulary rather an ontology

Luc: Many of us believe that provenance is more than a vocabulary

<ssahoo2> I agree with Luc - vocabulary or ontology has its own cost vs. benefits and both should be available to provenance users

Paulo: These work is the kind of work done with PML group
... Very happy to see all the presentations. Value or reference-> preferable by refrence beacuse is more lightweith
... Distributed provenance

Luc: It is one of the questions

Yolanda: In slide 2 there are 5 situations, and situation 3 may be useful for this.

Paulo: Key to know who is using the data

<jcheney> i just got cut off...

Paulo: one of the major attractions for many people to use provenance

<pgroth> what was your question james?

<jcheney> i'm back.

<jcheney> just wanted to address the version issue:

ah, yes please!

<Luc> This presentation is not about OPM!

Paulo: Presentation helps to align pml and opm
... We do it at the server level, not at the http level

Yolanda: continue this conversation next Friday
... wiki page to continue the discussion too
... extend the wikipage adding the minutes and bring up some ideas

James: The versioning issue. There is a group called Memento

<jcheney> memento (http://www.mementoweb.org/) is already starting to address versioning


yolanda, should i do anything to save all?

trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/10/29 16:10:55 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found Scribe: dgarijo
Inferring ScribeNick: DGarijo

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Daniel James Luc Paul Paulo Simon Yolanda YolandaGil jcheney joined pgroth prov-xg ssahoo2 trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Oct/0038.html
Found Date: 29 Oct 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/10/29-prov-xg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]