17:12:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webapps
17:12:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-webapps-irc
17:12:28 <shepazu> wtf?
17:12:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:12:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DOM3
17:12:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM scheduled to start in 48 minutes
17:12:31 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
17:12:31 <trackbot> Date: 27 October 2010
17:13:27 <shepazu> Zakim, room for 4?
17:13:29 <Zakim> ok, shepazu; conference Team_(webapps)17:13Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1813Z
17:13:38 <Zakim> Team_(webapps)17:13Z has now started
17:13:39 <Zakim> +Shepazu
17:14:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:14:17 <smaug_> Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay
17:14:17 <Zakim> +Olli_Pettay; got it
17:14:52 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:16:37 <shepazu> Agenda: discussing LC comments
17:16:39 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/products/2
17:17:13 <shepazu> scribeNick: jrossi 
17:17:16 <shepazu> chair: shepazu 
17:21:38 <shepazu> ISSUE-134?
17:21:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-134 -- Consider making useCapture parameter of add/removeEventListener optional -- raised
17:21:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/134
17:22:22 <jrossi> topic: ISSUE 134: Consider making useCapture parameter optional
17:22:46 <jrossi> smaug_: not sure if webidl allows this
17:23:25 <jrossi> smaug_: if webidl already defines that it's ok to not use all the parameters, and if it defines what the default value is those cases then we dont need to care about this case at all
17:23:52 <jrossi> smaug_:  i dont like making it optional, but if webidl does that then i dont argue against that
17:23:59 <jrossi> shepazu: right now we're not using webidl
17:24:22 <jrossi> smaug_: but if browsers implement it using webidl, and more than just idl syntax
17:25:28 <jrossi> shepazu: if webidl allows calling native methods with fewer params than specified, then it probably defines the default values
17:25:45 <jrossi> last comment was smaug_
17:26:45 <shepazu> s/shepazu:/smaug_:/
17:28:20 <Lachy> Lachy has joined #webapps
17:29:02 <jrossi> jrossi: provided webidl allows optional parameters and that we can specify useCapture's default to be false, we don't have a problem with it either way
17:29:43 <jrossi> smaug_: a little worried that people will understand only part of dom3 events if it is left optional
17:31:53 <jrossi> shepazu: most people may never need it and so understanding is not necessary
17:32:55 <jrossi> jrossi: isn't this not backwards compatibile for other browsers?
17:32:57 <jrossi> smaug_: yes
17:33:33 <jrossi> shepazu: older browsers won't have new events and such either
17:34:42 <jrossi> shepazu: IE before 9 didn't allow it, so there's no question there (IE6-8). Firefox/Safari/Opera/Chrome are all really aggressive about pushing updates.
17:35:40 <jrossi> shepazu: better to have the default that's the proper default rather than screw up people who use true/false without understanding it
17:37:12 <jrossi> shepazu:  first let's look into what webidl says about this and if this is an option, if this is an available option there then we'll go ahead and make this change
17:37:31 <jrossi> Resolution: accepted. will look at webidl for this
17:45:05 <shepazu> ISSUE-146?
17:45:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-146 -- Capture-phase listeners invoked on targets -- raised
17:45:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/146
17:45:23 <smaug_> useCapture of type boolean
17:45:25 <smaug_>     If true, useCapture indicates that the user wishes to add the event listener for the capture phase and target only, i.e. this event listener will not be triggered during the bubbling phase. If false, the event listener must only be triggered during the target and bubbling phases.
17:46:59 <jrossi> smaug_:  once gecko implemented this, people were relying on it
17:47:26 <jrossi> RESOLUTION: Point out wording in spec to commentor.
17:48:26 <shepazu> "Event listeners registered for this phase must handle the event once it has reached its target."
17:49:11 <jrossi> jrossi: perhaps in section 3.1 you could clarify by saying event listeners registered for either capture or bubble
17:49:23 <jrossi> jrossi: since you can't explicitly register for target phase
17:50:24 <jrossi> RESOLUTION: fix section 3.1 for issue 146
17:52:24 <shepazu> issue-153?
17:52:24 <trackbot> ISSUE-153 -- Converting wheel events to mousewheel and DOMMouseScroll -- raised
17:52:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/153
17:52:39 <jrossi> smaug_: consider making this part non-normative
17:52:54 <jrossi> shepazu: absolutely right. also correct the errors!
17:55:05 <jrossi> RESOLUTION: make non-normative and correct the errors
17:59:29 <shepazu> issue-171?
17:59:29 <trackbot> ISSUE-171 -- Consider removing Event.timeStamp value 0 -- raised
17:59:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/171
18:01:14 <jrossi> RESOLUTION: accept the comments pending further discussion
18:01:16 <shepazu> issue-172?
18:01:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-172 -- Fix Event.timeStamp -- raised
18:01:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/172
18:02:34 <jrossi> smaug_: in script libraries, you probably call the init method right after createEvent
18:02:41 <jrossi> smaug_:  the time will probably be the same
18:02:58 <jrossi> smaug_: if you even care about timestamp
18:03:06 <jrossi> jrossi: agrees
18:06:26 <jrossi> jrossi: don't know how you can "guess when the event will really occur" as Boris says 
18:06:41 <jrossi> jrossi: doesn't have precognitive abilities
18:08:33 <jrossi> shepazu: he also says milliseconds since epoch might not be accurate
18:09:00 <jrossi> jrossi: almost all timestamps (for other environments, such as server side) are allowed to be sec since epoch
18:09:27 <jrossi> jrossi: so it might be useful for event timestamps to align with those systems
18:09:39 <jrossi> shepazu: might be useful for animation to have these be more accurate
18:09:49 <jrossi> smaug_:  yes, but that might be something different
18:09:54 <jrossi> jrossi: agrees
18:12:00 <jrossi> shepazu: im happy to change it if there's a more concrete proposal
18:12:07 <jrossi> shepazu: but not sure exactly what we'd do here
18:12:35 <jrossi> RESOLUTION: going to keep it as epoch pending further discussion
18:14:40 <shepazu> issue-147?
18:14:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-147 -- re-dispatching an event that already has its flow started -- raised
18:14:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/147
18:15:05 <jrossi> smaug_:  shouldn't be possible
18:15:32 <jrossi> smaug_: it would cause problems, for example, related to istrusted property
18:16:50 <jrossi> RESOLUTION: clarify that it is not possible
18:22:39 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
18:22:42 <Zakim> -Olli_Pettay
18:22:51 <Zakim> -Shepazu
18:22:52 <shepazu> trackbot, end telcon
18:22:52 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:22:53 <Zakim> Team_(webapps)17:13Z has ended
18:22:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:22:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/27-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
18:22:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:22:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:22:54 <Zakim> Attendees were Shepazu, Olli_Pettay, [Microsoft]
18:22:55 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is