12:59:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wam
12:59:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-irc
12:59:22 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
12:59:27 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
12:59:41 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
12:59:41 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
12:59:41 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0153.html
12:59:41 <ArtB> Chair: Art
12:59:41 <ArtB> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
12:59:42 <ArtB> Regrets: Steven_Pemberton, Frederick_Hirsch
12:59:42 <Zakim> +Marcos
13:01:57 <ArtB> Present: Art_Barstow, Marcos_Caceres
13:02:02 <ArtB> Topic: Announcements
13:02:12 <ArtB> AB: October 26 is the deadline for comments re October 5 LCWD of Widget Packaging and Configuration ( http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-widgets-20101005/  )
13:04:00 <ArtB> AB: WAI's P&F WG would like to meet with the widgets group @ TPAC on November 1; I will send details of the meeting include voice bridge (when I have them)
13:10:03 <timeless_mbp> timeless_mbp has joined #wam
13:15:49 <ArtB> Topic: Packaging and Configuration spec
13:15:56 <ArtB> AB: I created a comment tracking doc for the LC ( http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42538/WD-widgets-20101005/ )
13:16:14 <ArtB> AB: we have comments from viji <viji@borqs.com> (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0130.html )
13:16:49 <ArtB> MC: Viji is from Borqs
13:17:04 <ArtB> ... they are a development arm for China Mobile
13:17:21 <Marcos> MC: AFIK
13:17:50 <ArtB> AB: Issue-150 "Email and param name and value as 'Keyword attributes' is causing confusion in Widgets P&C Spec" ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/150 )
13:17:50 <ArtB> AB: Issue-151 "If feature-name is not a valid IRI, and required-feature  is true, then the user agent must treat this widget as an invalid widget  package. but doesnt say anything about the case when it is not required." ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/151 )
13:17:50 <ArtB> AB: Issue-152 "test suite needs a few more XML entity cases to check for well-formed XML" ( http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/152 )
13:18:05 <ArtB> AB: 152 seems more like an action
13:18:13 <ArtB> MC: oh yes, that's true
13:18:26 <ArtB> ... can change it to an Action
13:18:52 <Steven> Steven has joined #wam
13:18:57 <ArtB> ... I am reluctant to add more tests
13:19:00 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:19:00 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:19:02 <Zakim> +Steven
13:19:11 <ArtB> ... they test XML entity types
13:19:23 <ArtB> Present+ Steven_Pemberton
13:20:55 <ArtB> AB: what about issue-151?
13:20:55 <ArtB> Issue-151?
13:20:55 <ArtB> MC: we just need to add a clarification
13:20:55 <trackbot> ISSUE-151 -- [widgets] P&C Spec.... If feature-name is not a valid IRI, and required-feature is true, then the user agent must treat this widget as an invalid widget package. but doesnt say anything about the case when it is not required. -- raised
13:20:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/151
13:21:09 <ArtB> AB: yes, I agree with it is just a clarification
13:21:20 <ArtB> AB: and what about issue-150?
13:21:26 <ArtB> Issue-150?
13:21:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-150 -- [widgets] Email and param name and value as 'Keyword attributes' is causing confusion in Widgets P&C Spec -- raised
13:21:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/issues/150
13:21:40 <ArtB> MC: this is just an editorial cleanup
13:21:55 <ArtB> ... need to define a new data type like "unlocalizable string"
13:22:43 <ArtB> ACTION: barstow update LC comment doc to show Issues 150 and 151 are clarifications and editorial, respectively
13:22:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-590 - Update LC comment doc to show Issues 150 and 151 are clarifications and editorial, respectively [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-10-28].
13:22:58 <ArtB> action: caceres to checkin updates for issues 150 and 151
13:23:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-591 - Checkin updates for issues 150 and 151 [on Marcos Caceres - due 2010-10-28].
13:23:28 <ArtB> AB: anything else on P&C for today?
13:23:47 <ArtB> MC: can we talk about embedding?
13:23:55 <ArtB> AB: let's talk about that during AoB
13:23:57 <ArtB> MC: ok
13:24:04 <ArtB> Topic: Widget Interface spec
13:24:10 <ArtB> AB: Addison's October 14 e-mail ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0096.html )
13:24:58 <ArtB> AB: he wants a locale attribute off the widget object
13:25:07 <ArtB> MC: yes, that's right
13:25:21 <ArtB> ... think he should just use navigator.language
13:25:59 <fjh> fjh has joined #wam
13:26:59 <ArtB> AB: let me find the relevant email in the archive
13:27:09 <ArtB> ... here is your response to Addison: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0033.html
13:27:44 <Zakim> -Steven
13:27:55 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:27:55 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:27:57 <Zakim> +Steven
13:28:07 <Marcos> http://www.iamcal.com/understanding-bidirectional-text/
13:28:12 <ArtB> MC: I have another response that I drafted but haven't yet set
13:28:12 <ArtB> ... think he misunderstood what me
13:30:23 <ArtB> Regrets: Frederick_Hirsch
13:31:09 <ArtB> MC: my answer to the locale is to use navigator.language
13:32:51 <ArtB> AB: Addison also is asking "how does the API expose a string's direction?"
13:33:02 <ArtB> ... the problem is that the "span-able" elements may have any number of directions
13:33:09 <ArtB> ... so there is no single direction
13:34:03 <ArtB> ... I know you responded to Addison; I think you are talking past each other
13:34:03 <ArtB> MC: correct; a string can have N directions
13:34:14 <ArtB> ... can use unicode markers
13:34:31 <ArtB> ... e.g. http://www.iamcal.com/understanding-bidirectional-text/
13:34:50 <ArtB> ... can have a leading direction but then substrings may change direction
13:35:19 <ArtB> AB: is there a precedence we can build upon?
13:35:21 <Marcos> e.g. U+202E A B C U+202C
13:35:32 <Marcos> OR: start {LRE} foo {RLE} bar {PDF} baz {PDF} end
13:36:45 <Marcos> MC: in P&C, the i18n string is represented as (start {LRE} foo {RLE} bar {PDF} baz {PDF} end)
13:37:46 <ArtB> MC: in the API we can note what the string can look like (pointing to P&C spec)
13:38:40 <Marcos> widget.name  == "u/202E  foo u/1231 bar u/123 baz /3112 end u/1231
13:38:41 <Marcos> "
13:39:27 <Marcos> document.write(widget.name)
13:39:41 <Marcos> http://www.iamcal.com/understanding-bidirectional-text/
13:40:02 <Marcos> putInPlace(string, widget.name) 
13:40:18 <Marcos> putInPlace(element, widget.name)
13:40:42 <ArtB> MC: this isn't something that can be done at the widget API level
13:40:50 <ArtB> ... it could be something done at the DOM level
13:41:17 <ArtB> ... don't think this is something that needs to be standardized
13:42:05 <ArtB> AB: can you respond to Addison with your proposal?
13:42:10 <Marcos> winget.name.lang 
13:42:12 <ArtB> MC: yes, I will do that
13:42:35 <ArtB> ... for locale use, widget.name.lang
13:42:54 <ArtB> ... and for directionality, I will reiterate what I've previously said
13:43:19 <ArtB> ... we are going to return strings with Unicode markers
13:43:55 <ArtB> AB: ok; sounds good; I would welcome his feedback on what other WGs have done here
13:44:45 <ArtB> Topic: Widget Requirements: CfC to publish a new WD; only changes are updating references and the now obsolete spec titles (e.g. Widgets 1.0: Packaging and Configuration) <http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-reqs/>
13:45:57 <ArtB> AB: any objections to publishing this WD?
13:46:01 <ArtB> MC: no
13:46:05 <ArtB> SP: good plan
13:46:22 <ArtB> RESOLUTION: agree to publish the new WD of the Widget Requirements doc
13:46:36 <ArtB> ACTION: barstow submit a publication request to publish new WD of Widget Requirements
13:46:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-592 - Submit a publication request to publish new WD of Widget Requirements [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-10-28].
13:46:43 <ArtB> Topic: AoB
13:47:39 <ArtB> AB: there has been some discussion about packaging web apps for browsers
13:48:04 <ArtB> ... Mozilla's Mike Hanson elaborated on how their approach relates to P&C: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0159.html
13:48:35 <ArtB> ... Doug mentioned this could be in scope via WebApps' "Widget Embedding" deliverable
13:49:06 <ArtB> ... Someone else mentioned, this appears to be similar to Chrome extensions framework, at least from the manifest perspective
13:49:14 <ArtB> ... they also use JSON
13:49:19 <ArtB> MC: yes
13:49:43 <ArtB> AB: we can certainly do some work in this area
13:49:55 <ArtB> MC: yes, we should discuss this
13:51:39 <ArtB> ... don't want fragmentation 
13:52:01 <ArtB> AB: I think it would be good to talk about the UCs and Reqs
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13:52:22 <ArtB> ... I do think our priority here should be to complete work we already started
13:52:30 <ArtB> ... but most of the work is already done
13:52:47 <ArtB> MC: I'm willing to put in hooks to accomdate future devlopment
13:53:00 <ArtB> ... but I do not want to break any normative parts of the P&C spec
13:53:08 <ArtB> AB: agree
13:53:42 <ArtB> AB: it may be too late to schedule related discussions for TPAC
13:53:55 <ArtB> ... but we can certainly start discussions on the mail list
13:54:01 <ArtB> ... and have informal discussions in Lyon
13:54:13 <ArtB> MC: yes, I agree
13:54:48 <ArtB> AB: not sure how to proceed
13:55:04 <ArtB> ... assume people will respond to the thread already started
13:55:51 <ArtB> AB: the action is for anyone interested in "Widget Embedding" to use public-webapps for discussions
13:56:32 <ArtB> AB: regarding next call, I think after TPAC makes sense
13:57:10 <ArtB> MC: yes, we should continue to use the list, especially for P&C and Interface specs
13:57:38 <ArtB> AB: tentatively, the next call would be November 4
13:57:45 <ArtB> AB: anything else for today?
13:58:45 <ArtB> AB: meeting adjourned
13:58:51 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
13:58:53 <Zakim> -Marcos
13:58:57 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:58:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:01:27 <Zakim> -Steven
14:01:30 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended
14:01:32 <Zakim> Attendees were Art_Barstow, Marcos, Steven
14:06:54 <ArtB> zakim, bye
14:06:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wam
14:06:59 <ArtB> rrsagent, bye
14:06:59 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-actions.rdf :
14:06:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: barstow update LC comment doc to show Issues 150 and 151 are clarifications and editorial, respectively [1]
14:06:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-irc#T13-22-43
14:06:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: caceres to checkin updates for issues 150 and 151 [2]
14:06:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-irc#T13-22-58
14:06:59 <RRSAgent> ACTION: barstow submit a publication request to publish new WD of Widget Requirements [3]
14:06:59 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/21-wam-irc#T13-46-36