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16:15:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-webperf-irc
16:15:46 <AndersonQuach_> list the agenda
16:18:44 <AndersonQuach_> agenda+ Feedback on Privacy Issue w/ Navigation Timing.
16:18:52 <AndersonQuach_> agenda+ Next steps to getting Navigation Timing to draft.
16:18:58 <AndersonQuach_> agenda+ Getting started with Resource Timing and User Timing.
16:19:04 <AndersonQuach_> agenda+ Any other business.
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16:27:40 <AndersonQuach_> meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference
16:27:47 <AndersonQuach_> present: Sigbjorn
16:27:51 <AndersonQuach_> present: Zhiheng
16:27:54 <AndersonQuach_> present: NicJansma
16:27:59 <AndersonQuach_> present: AndersonQuach
16:28:22 <AndersonQuach_> Regrets: JasonWeber
16:28:33 <AndersonQuach_> regrets: plh
16:29:14 <AndersonQuach_> next agenda
16:30:03 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: TonyG has gone thru security review with the Chrome team, suggestions include zero'ing out redirectCount in different origin navigations in the timeline, and to provide a means to disable the interface completely
16:30:26 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Sounds good, as long as the disable via UI is a non-normative requirement.
16:31:06 <AndersonQuach_> Sigborn: We must be safe by default. The timings that reveal off-domain must not be available programmatically.
16:31:22 <AndersonQuach_> scribe: AndersonQuach
16:32:11 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: It can be feasible to attack with the same origin and a redirect service. We could remove redirectCount altogether.
16:32:29 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: And disable redirect and unloading timings for different origin.
16:33:07 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: We need to hear more feedback from user-agent and security experts about the removal of redirectCount
16:33:23 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: where is navigationStart?
16:34:59 <AndersonQuach_> Sigborn: What is same domain, same cookie domain?
16:35:02 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: Same host
16:35:06 <AndersonQuach_> Sigborn: Cookie domain, sub domains of yahoo.com
16:35:17 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: where did we land with navigationStart
16:37:04 <AndersonQuach_> NicJansma: A->B->A->A, navigationStart should begin immediately prior the second A
16:37:35 <AndersonQuach_> NicJansma: for same domain with different origin redirections
16:37:59 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: need to look to clarify navigationStart and redirectStart 
16:42:47 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Zhiheng, can you capture your thoughts and we'll get feedback from Jonas and TonyG?
16:43:30 <AndersonQuach_> NicJansma: Anderson and I will follow-up with additional feedback from our security review via mail and for the next meeting.
16:44:02 <AndersonQuach_> Sigborn: Should make the same domain be the same as the cookie domain, I will write it up.
16:45:17 <AndersonQuach_> Present: Biesi
16:46:51 <AndersonQuach_> Next Agenda
16:47:12 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Let's move the spec to a working draft as all the latest feedback has been incorporated.
16:48:48 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Let's be explicit that this is not a user-agent benchmark.
16:49:09 <AndersonQuach_> Sigborn: Let's say due to the non-normative phases, the individual phases should not be used as a benchmark.
16:49:15 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Agreed.
16:49:40 <AndersonQuach_> Next Agenda
16:52:18 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Let's simplify the accessing of the ResourceTiming
16:52:53 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Let's say have a fixed buffer of 1000, have the ability to clear the buffer, and to expand the buffer to cater to WebApps.
16:53:14 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: We don't want developers to crawl the page.
16:54:27 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Agreed, we should have the timing centralized.
16:54:38 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: Yup, the object should be easily serialized into a JSON object.
16:54:59 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: How can a developer get the timing about a specific image?
16:55:20 <AndersonQuach_> NicJansma: Timing of a specific image?
16:55:23 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: Yes.
16:56:00 <AndersonQuach_> NicJansma: ResourceTiming can have the URL and potentially the id and provide a means to filter based on type and/or id.
16:56:48 <AndersonQuach_> NicJansma: Goal for ResourceTiming to get timing that is inaccessible to JS.
16:57:14 <AndersonQuach_> NicJansma: We should keep in mind to be able to get the timing for individual elements and the collection.
16:57:36 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: Come up with a short summary proposal and review the proposals.
16:58:12 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: I can write that out.
17:00:21 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: ResourceTiming has privacy concern as well. To have an HTML header to turn this on.
17:02:08 <AndersonQuach_> Zhiheng: implement the allow policy in the http header.
17:02:24 <AndersonQuach_> Sigborn: This is possible but difficult to implement as seen in other W3C discussions.
17:03:12 <AndersonQuach_> NicJansma: For different origin we can reduce the amount of details, just having fetchStart -> loadEventEnd, not providing additional info via JS. Provide total time to load the content.
17:03:41 <AndersonQuach_> Sigborn: Expand definition of Same Origin to include Same Cookie Domain + Sub Domain.
17:06:34 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: 1. We agree to move spec to working draft.
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17:06:48 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: 2. Discuss privacy offline, feedback from Tony and Jonas.
17:06:59 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: 3. Zhiheng will provide a proposal for navigationStart.
17:07:05 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: 4. Anderson will respond with the simplified resource timing proposal.
17:07:14 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach: Thanks everyone for meeting!
17:08:00 <AndersonQuach_> rrsagent, set logs world-visible 
17:08:31 <AndersonQuach_> Chair: ArvindJain
17:08:38 <AndersonQuach_> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:08:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-webperf-minutes.html AndersonQuach_
17:09:08 <AndersonQuach_> Present+ AndersonQuach
17:09:12 <AndersonQuach_> Present+ Zhiheng
17:09:19 <AndersonQuach_> Present+ NicJansma
17:09:25 <AndersonQuach_> Present+ Sigbjorn
17:09:30 <AndersonQuach_> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:09:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-webperf-minutes.html AndersonQuach_
17:10:00 <AndersonQuach_> Present+ ArvindJain
18:22:52 <AndersonQuach> AndersonQuach has joined #webperf
18:22:59 <AndersonQuach> list the agenda
18:27:39 <AndersonQuach_> AndersonQuach_ has joined #webperf
18:32:12 <AndersonQuach> rrsagent publish minutes
18:32:24 <AndersonQuach> rrsagent, publish minutes
18:32:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-webperf-minutes.html AndersonQuach
18:33:02 <AndersonQuach> dismiss Zakim
18:33:07 <AndersonQuach> dismiss rrsagent
18:33:13 <AndersonQuach> zakim, please part
18:33:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webperf
18:33:18 <AndersonQuach> rrsagent, please part
18:33:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items