IRC log of CSS on 2010-10-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:08:42 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #CSS
15:08:42 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-CSS-irc
15:08:48 [glazou]: Zakim, this will be Style
15:08:48 [Zakim]: ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 52 minutes
15:08:53 [glazou]: RRSAgent, make logs public
15:15:49 [kennyluck]: kennyluck has joined #CSS
15:16:51 [sylvaing]: sylvaing has joined #css
15:47:50 [dbaron]: dbaron has joined #css
15:48:20 [alexmog]: alexmog has joined #css
15:54:33 [oyvind]: oyvind has joined #css
15:54:48 [kojiishi]: kojiishi has joined #css
15:55:05 [dsinger_]: dsinger_ has joined #css
15:55:59 [Zakim]: Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:56:06 [Zakim]: +dsinger
15:56:16 [smfr]: smfr has joined #css
15:56:27 [smfr]: ha ha
15:57:27 [Zakim]: +jdaggett
15:57:36 [jdaggett]: zakim, mute me
15:57:36 [Zakim]: jdaggett should now be muted
15:57:40 [dsinger_]: Zakim, this is style
15:57:40 [Zakim]: dsinger_, this was already Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
15:57:42 [Zakim]: ok, dsinger_; that matches Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
15:58:00 [Zakim]: +glazou
15:58:06 [jdaggett]: greetings
15:58:10 [glazou]: hi jdaggett
15:58:19 [glazou]: got your email just had no time to answer yet
15:58:23 [glazou]: hi dsinger_
15:58:26 [jdaggett]: enjoying your strikes?
15:58:40 [Zakim]: + +1.253.307.aaaa
15:58:57 [Zakim]: +smfr
15:59:00 [glazou]: jdaggett: only 1/4th of tank in my car...
15:59:04 [Zakim]: +??P8
15:59:06 [jdaggett]: heh
15:59:08 [Zakim]: + +1.650.253.aabb
15:59:12 [Zakim]: +plinss
15:59:12 [kojiishi]: zakim, +??P8 is me
15:59:12 [TabAtkins_]: Zakim, aabb is me.
15:59:13 [Zakim]: sorry, kojiishi, I do not recognize a party named '+??P8'
15:59:15 [Zakim]: +TabAtkins_; got it
15:59:38 [glazou]: Zakim, aaaa is arronei
15:59:38 [Zakim]: +arronei; got it
15:59:43 [Zakim]: -??P8
15:59:59 [jdaggett]: yup
16:00:38 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:00:45 [kojiishi]: zakim, ipcaller is me
16:00:45 [Zakim]: +kojiishi; got it
16:01:42 [glazou]: np dsinger_
16:02:15 [Zakim]: +Bert
16:04:12 [glazou]: probably my first cold this year...
16:04:58 [Zakim]: +fantasai
16:05:15 [jdaggett]: zakim, who is noisy
16:05:18 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'who is noisy', jdaggett
16:05:33 [Zakim]: +sylvaing
16:05:37 [jdaggett]: zakim, who is noisy?
16:05:47 [Zakim]: jdaggett, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (60%), Bert (5%), TabAtkins_ (35%), fantasai (69%)
16:05:47 [TabAtkins_]: ScribeNick: TabAtkins_
16:05:51 [dsinger_]: Zakim, who is noisy?
16:06:02 [Zakim]: dsinger_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (4%), TabAtkins_ (26%)
16:06:12 [Zakim]: +David_Baron
16:06:14 [ChrisL]: ChrisL has joined #css
16:06:41 [TabAtkins_]: glazou: First agenda item is CSS 2.1.
16:06:48 [TabAtkins_]: glazou: I see we ahve multiple implementation reports
16:06:54 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
16:07:00 [dethbakin]: dethbakin has joined #css
16:07:02 [Zakim]: -arronei
16:07:06 [TabAtkins_]: glazou: Peter is aggregating the results, but some are from RC1 and RC2.
16:07:10 [Zakim]: +[Apple]
16:07:18 [dethbakin]: Zakim, Apple has me
16:07:18 [Zakim]: +dethbakin; got it
16:07:22 [Zakim]: +ChrisL
16:07:23 [TabAtkins_]: plinss: Most tests didn't change between, so I have a script that's grandfathering RC1 results that are still valid.
16:07:34 [TabAtkins_]: glazou: Any idea of the number of tests passed by two impls?
16:07:42 [TabAtkins_]: plinss: No idea until I finish combining all of the IRs.
16:07:46 [arronei]: zakim, microsoft has me
16:07:46 [Zakim]: +arronei; got it
16:08:00 [Zakim]: -TabAtkins_
16:08:08 [TabAtkins_]: Craps, one sec.
16:08:28 [glazou]: waiting for you TabAtkins_
16:08:33 [sylvaing]: ScribeNick: sylvaing
16:08:40 [Zakim]: +TabAtkins_
16:08:45 [fantasai]: fantasai has joined #css
16:08:51 [fantasai]: ScribeNick: fantasai
16:08:59 [fantasai]: arronei: I updated maybe 100 cases or so
16:09:00 [sylvaing]: arronei: a large set of updates came in; about 100 cases
16:09:12 [fantasai]: arronei: Now we have a lot of feedback from IR coming in
16:09:20 [fantasai]: dbaron: I reported 494 tests as invalid
16:09:34 [fantasai]: arronei: Not all of those are actually invalid. I have feedback on why they're not invalid
16:09:45 [fantasai]: arronei: But I'll send that feedback in as a group in a bit
16:09:50 [fantasai]: dbaron: 496
16:10:01 [fantasai]: glazou: So let's wait for Peter's results and arronei's updates
16:10:17 [fantasai]: arronei: I'm concerned about other updates, from boris and gerard and fantasai. No idea how those are tracking
16:10:27 [fantasai]: dbaron: Do we have a mechanism for tracking which errors are in which tests?
16:10:31 [fantasai]: arronei: that's kinda tricky
16:10:37 [dbaron]: s/are in which tests/are in whose tests/
16:10:50 [TabAtkins_]: fantasai: We do have a list that maps filenames to their location in the source tree.
16:10:58 [oyvind]: http://wiki.csswg.org/test/css2.1/issues has some sort of grouping
16:11:01 [fantasai]: http://test.csswg.org/source/filename-list
16:11:22 [TabAtkins_]: fantasai: That should show who is responsible for the tests.
16:11:55 [TabAtkins_]: fantasai: If it's in "approved", it's us as the WG's responsibility to maintain the tests. If it's in a contributor's directory, we can find out who's responsible.
16:12:12 [fantasai]: dbaron: The other thing is, when arron has responses, I'm probably going to have responses to his responses. So it's better to send them out sooner
16:12:24 [fantasai]: arronei: Well, there's a lot of duplicates. So I'm trying to group those together as much as possible.
16:12:50 [fantasai]: arronei: That's part of the reason I want to publish on Friday. Even if I'm not done with everything, at least I get all the edits in asap
16:13:12 [fantasai]: arronei: I think it's better to get releases out faster, even if not all edits are in. We'll have smaller updates instead of larger ones.
16:13:47 [TabAtkins_]: fantasai: If I don't have to actually fix tests before I publish (because I don't know how long it'll take to finish mine), publishing takes a couple of hours, so it's deifnitely something we can do on Friday.
16:14:00 [TabAtkins_]: fantasai: If we do the publish with the understanding that some errors will still be standing in the test suite.
16:14:21 [fantasai]: arronei: How about we talk on Friday and see where we are, then either publish Friday or next Tuesday
16:14:27 [fantasai]: Topic: CSS2.1 edits
16:14:28 [jdaggett]: unmute me
16:14:34 [jdaggett]: zakim, unmute
16:14:34 [Zakim]: I don't understand 'unmute', jdaggett
16:14:35 [fantasai]: zakim, unmute jdaggett
16:14:35 [Zakim]: jdaggett should no longer be muted
16:14:38 [glazou]: Zakim, unmute jdaggett
16:14:39 [Zakim]: jdaggett was not muted, glazou
16:14:40 [glazou]: http://www.w3.org/mid/1692182533.109045.1287455881677.JavaMail.root@cm-mail03.mozilla.org
16:15:02 [fantasai]: jdaggett: There are a number of places where the spec has changed significantly, e.g. the table of bolder/lighter mappings
16:15:07 [fantasai]: jdaggett: And that information is not public.
16:15:20 [fantasai]: jdaggett: I wanted to know if we can take whatever edits we have so far and make a publication of that?
16:15:34 [fantasai]: Bert: We'll have a last call in 2 weeks, after TPAC. Why can't we wait a little bit more?
16:15:51 [ChrisL]: zakim, unmute me
16:15:51 [Zakim]: ChrisL should no longer be muted
16:16:12 [fantasai]: Bert: All the edits we have so far will be done by TPAC, so just after TPAC. If we decide on more edits at TPAC, then it will take longer
16:16:20 [ChrisL]: there is a lot of time in 'after'. 'soon after' is better
16:16:20 [fantasai]: jdaggett: It's hard to have discussions about things that are not in the public spec
16:16:41 [fantasai]: dbaron: I had to tell gtalbot that a test in the test suite was invalid because of edits that I could not describe because they were not anywhere public
16:17:24 [fantasai]: jdaggett: Why don't we say whatever edits we have in before TPAC, we try to put those out a few days after TPAC ends, and any extra edits will be dealt with later.
16:17:34 [fantasai]: Bert: It's possible. It takes a bit of time to publish.
16:17:49 [fantasai]: Bert: There's one other thing I don't like about that is that if we publish, it will be a normal WD, not even an LCWD.
16:17:58 [fantasai]: Bert: It's a bad signal to give to people wrt stability of the spec.
16:18:15 [fantasai]: jdaggett: But if we very quickly follow that with an LCWD, how is that different?
16:18:42 [fantasai]: glazou: Bert has a point. If we go back to normal WD, since we always said that we are almost ready to move along the REC track, it's a very bad signal.
16:18:57 [fantasai]: dbaron: Can we have the editor's draft public? Which would solve this problem?
16:19:12 [fantasai]: sylvaing: Yes, all the CSS3 drafts are publicly accessible, so that makes sense.
16:19:21 [dsinger]: dsinger has joined #css
16:19:24 [fantasai]: Bert: well, all the errata are public. Everything that has been edited is public.
16:19:49 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: It's much much harder to diff the public CSS2.1 with the errata than it is to look at the edited draft.
16:19:51 [ChrisL]: CSS WG is supposed to work in public. CSS2.1 not being in public is a problem; at least its a short-lived problem.
16:20:01 [fantasai]: dbaron: The errata don't always have the exact text.
16:20:12 [fantasai]: glazou: Seems like everyone wants to have an updated public draft.
16:20:13 [ChrisL]: concur
16:20:22 [fantasai]: glazou: Is there consensus to make the editor's draft public?
16:20:33 [fantasai]: glazou: Ok, let's do the edits into an editor's draft and make it public asap
16:20:52 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: Publish CSS2.1 editor's draft publicly ASAP
16:20:56 [fantasai]: CSS2.1 Issues
16:21:00 [fantasai]: Topic: CSS2.1 Issues
16:21:10 [jdaggett]: zakim, mute me
16:21:10 [Zakim]: jdaggett should now be muted
16:21:36 [TabAtkins_]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Oct/0428.html
16:21:38 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: After reading the extra feedback on the thread, I believe my text is still correct, I just needed to change the reference from "parent" to "containing block"
16:21:53 [karl]: karl has joined #CSS
16:22:06 [fantasai]: glazou: I suppose we need some time to review and approve
16:22:21 [fantasai]: ACTION everyone: review 101 for next week
16:22:21 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - everyone
16:23:03 [fantasai]: http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-101
16:23:15 [fantasai]: Issue 154
16:23:21 [fantasai]: arronei: Haven't worked on it, because focused on test suite
16:23:42 [fantasai]: arronei: Should be ready for next week
16:23:54 [fantasai]: glazou: Let's do that. Let's try to have all issues resolved before TPAC
16:23:56 [Zakim]: -dsinger
16:24:04 [fantasai]: Issue 159
16:24:09 [TabAtkins_]: http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-159
16:24:10 [fantasai]: http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-159
16:25:14 [fantasai]: arronei: MS has reviewed most of this, but haven't gotten all feedback from our margin collapsing dev yet
16:25:29 [fantasai]: dbaron: Haven't gotten to this since last week; pretty busy w/ implementation report
16:25:53 [fantasai]: glazou: Ok, deferred to next week. But please make sure you have reviewed the proposal for next conf call
16:25:56 [fantasai]: Issue 199
16:26:09 [howcome]: howcome has joined #css
16:26:18 [fantasai]: Tab sends an email
16:26:45 [fantasai]: TabAtkins_: There was one particular question on the previous wording, so this is an update on the previous proposal
16:26:56 [fantasai]: glazou: so let's give a week to review this proposal
16:27:04 [glazou]: http://www.w3.org/mid/20101016195038.GA17927@pickering.dbaron.org
16:27:25 [fantasai]: glazou: Last question is, should overflow apply to inline table elements?
16:27:47 [fantasai]: dbaron: Yeah, there was a test in the test suite, it semed odd to apply to inline-table but not table
16:27:53 [fantasai]: Bert: Looks like an editing error
16:28:22 [fantasai]: RESOLVED: overflow applies to inline-table just like tables
16:28:28 [fantasai]: Topic: TPAC
16:28:32 [jdaggett]: zakim, unmute me
16:28:32 [Zakim]: jdaggett should no longer be muted
16:28:37 [ChrisL]: q+ to talk about fx taskforce (joint css svg) on Thursday
16:28:44 [fantasai]: glazou: Request from Janina to have a joint meeting to talk about accessibility
16:29:08 [fantasai]: ChrisL: We also discussed having an FX taskforce meeting.
16:29:22 [fantasai]: ChrisL: Turns out some people are arriving on Wed afternoon. So better to have it on Thursday
16:29:29 [fantasai]: sounds ok
16:29:39 [fantasai]: glazou will be away
16:29:51 [fantasai]: dbaron: Can we do it in the part of Thursday that doesn't overlap the AC meeting?
16:29:55 [fantasai]: ChrisL: Of course.
16:29:56 [ChrisL]: so thursday, not overlapping ac meeting.
16:30:13 [fantasai]: glazou: Let me give you a short report in France right now.
16:30:23 [fantasai]: glazou: Big big strikes
16:30:41 [fantasai]: glazou: I strongly recommend taking the train straight from CDG, not trying to go to the city
16:30:49 [fantasai]: glazou: Taxis may run out of fuel
16:30:54 [fantasai]: glazou: my own car is running out of fuel
16:31:01 [fantasai]: glazou: Some riots in Lyon, hopefully over by then
16:31:14 [fantasai]: glazou: This morning I checked all the arrivals from the US and India, no problem at all
16:31:23 [fantasai]: glazou: The trains were running normally, at least from Paris to Lyon
16:31:25 [smfr]: bring a donkey and cart
16:31:35 [fantasai]: glazou: I'm going to send reports to csswg mailing list when I have more information as we get closer to TPAC
16:32:30 [fantasai]: fantasai: Do we have a joint meeting scheduled with i18n?
16:32:31 [fantasai]: glazou: yes
16:32:46 [fantasai]: http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/tpac-2010
16:33:17 [fantasai]: glazou: We should start prioritizing our work for CSS3
16:33:49 [fantasai]: sylvaing: Are we moving css3-background to CR?
16:34:02 [fantasai]: fantasai: yes, working on LC DoC this week
16:34:08 [fantasai]: sylvaing: MS would like to discuss layout topics
16:34:25 [fantasai]: dbaron: Conditional on how much time I have to look at stuff before TPAC, might want to discuss CSS3 Values
16:35:05 [fantasai]: sylvaing: dbaron, we also had some discussions about what happens to the test suite and the spec after CSS2.1 goes to REC
16:35:24 [fantasai]: glazou: Anything else?
16:35:41 [fantasai]: glazou: If you have any extra agenda items, either send to csswg mailing list or add to wiki or both
16:35:47 [fantasai]: Topic: @font-face
16:35:49 [glazou]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Oct/0161.html
16:36:25 [fantasai]: Beth: So, I think unfortunately we have not come up with any syntax that makes sense, but after thinking it over, if we think it's a real problem
16:36:37 [fantasai]: Beth: which I think we do, given the bug reports that have come in,
16:36:48 [fantasai]: Bether: We think there should be a way for authors to say what they would want to happen
16:36:49 [ChrisL]: having a descriptor puts all the capability with the author. a property would allow author control and user preference override
16:36:52 [ChrisL]: q+
16:37:14 [fantasai]: Beth: A user preference also makes sense. Some users will hate the flash of unstyled content, and others will hate not seeing text
16:37:19 [fantasai]: Beth: I don't have any concrete suggestions
16:37:42 [fantasai]: glazou: Just to summarize, it's a fallback mechanism to say what happens if the font has not downloaded yet
16:37:52 [fantasai]: jdaggett: WebKit shows no content until the font loads
16:38:01 [fantasai]: jdaggett: Mozilla renders with the fallback font until the font loads
16:38:07 [fantasai]: jdaggett: Our current thinking is to put a timeout
16:38:24 [fantasai]: jdaggett: Initially you don't show anything, but after a certain time, you fall back to the fallback font
16:38:28 [howcome]: Opera has a user-setable timeout
16:38:32 [fantasai]: jdaggett: The question is what's the right timeout
16:38:41 [fantasai]: jdaggett: And in some cases this may cause a worse situation
16:38:45 [fantasai]: jdaggett: you get two flashes
16:39:02 [fantasai]: jdaggett: It's a tradeoff between readability and usability and not having these flashes
16:39:09 [ChrisL]: q?
16:39:21 [fantasai]: glazou: howcome says they have a user-setable timeout
16:39:29 [ChrisL]: zakim, unmute me
16:39:29 [Zakim]: ChrisL was not muted, ChrisL
16:39:31 [fantasai]: jdaggett: My thought was to put it in a user-controllable setting
16:39:40 [howcome]: Indeed, it's a tradeoff. Complex equation with many variables.
16:39:45 [fantasai]: Beth: We would prefer an author control
16:40:01 [fantasai]: ChrisL: The problem is that the suggestion was a descriptor, which isn't author-overrideable
16:40:27 [fantasai]: ChrisL: There were two parts suggestion: you could say whether you wanted a blank or a fallback, and you could also set a timeout
16:40:40 [fantasai]: jdaggett: You could get fallback immediately by setting a zero timeout.
16:41:00 [fantasai]: jdaggett: The one thing about a property is that it doesn't make sense as something in the cascade.
16:41:27 [fantasai]: fantasai: Cascading it makes sense. Per-element doesn't make sense
16:41:31 [fantasai]: ?: could set it on the root
16:41:38 [TabAtkins_]: s/?/TabAtkins
16:42:28 [fantasai]: sylvain: I think it's weird to have that as a property
16:42:30 [ChrisL]: or you have a fast network, but are in Australia
16:42:45 [fantasai]: fantasai: The appropriate timeout will depend on the network
16:42:53 [ChrisL]: zakim, mute me
16:42:53 [Zakim]: ChrisL should now be muted
16:42:57 [fantasai]: fantasai: You'd want immediate fallback if you're on dialup
16:43:18 [fantasai]: sylvaing: It seems we don't have the implementation experience to design a property right now
16:43:30 [fantasai]: sylvaing: Do we need a property? Why not a UA setting?
16:43:39 [fantasai]: sylvaing: I don't think we've proved that we need a property instead of a UA setting.
16:43:55 [dsinger_]: dsinger_ has joined #css
16:43:58 [fantasai]: jdaggett: You could make a rule that you have a timeout, but it's influenced whether there's any network activity happening at all
16:44:11 [fantasai]: jdaggett: if there's no reply to your font download request, no packets, then you fallback immediately
16:44:12 [howcome]: I support Sylvain (on this :)
16:44:19 [fantasai]: jdaggett: you can't do that with a timeout propert
16:44:20 [fantasai]: y
16:44:22 [ChrisL]: @timeout(torrents-on, 5s)
16:44:31 [fantasai]: glazou: Do you want a normative note?
16:44:41 [alexmog]: alexmog has joined #css
16:44:46 [fantasai]: jdaggett: I think it makes sense to discuss this in the spec, but I'm not sure that it should be an author-controlled property
16:45:03 [fantasai]: Beth: I think we would still like an author-controlled property, but I recognize it's an odd thing
16:45:16 [fantasai]: Beth: We think that a user-controlled property isn't going to solve the problem for most users
16:45:29 [fantasai]: ...
16:45:54 [fantasai]: Beth: I can see the author wanting to note that this font is critical to the page, but this other one is a nice-to-have
16:46:04 [dsinger_]: Maybe a 'temporary substitute' font indication from the source?
16:46:18 [fantasai]: Smfr: Could also control this via JavaScript
16:46:29 [bradk]: bradk has joined #css
16:46:32 [ChrisL]: zakim, unmute me
16:46:32 [Zakim]: ChrisL should no longer be muted
16:46:34 [fantasai]: Smfr: Add an even tfor font download
16:47:04 [fantasai]: jdaggett: might be a good idea independent of this issue
16:47:17 [dsinger_]: S/even tfor/event for/
16:47:24 [fantasai]: ChrisL: drawing with canvas is tricky, since you currently don't know when the font is there
16:47:38 [fantasai]: glazou: You also need an event to know the font is not loaded, could not be loaded
16:47:48 [fantasai]: or UA is waiting
16:47:55 [fantasai]: smfr: we have the same problem for images
16:48:07 [fantasai]: glazou: I think the two approaches are really interesting.
16:48:12 [fantasai]: glazou: Probably not something we're going to solve now
16:48:35 [Zakim]: + +1.650.766.aacc
16:48:36 [fantasai]: glazou: Beth and ?, can you come up with something more concrete for tpac?
16:48:39 [fantasai]: yes
16:48:45 [fantasai]: Topic: writing-mode
16:49:32 [fantasai]: glazou: Lots of messages from hyatt
16:50:00 [fantasai]: fantasai: I just need to work those comments into the spec as I draft it; nothing to discuss here today.
16:51:47 [jdaggett]: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~eb2m-mrt/epub/rec2WG.html
16:51:56 [glazou]: s/has/had
16:52:00 [fantasai]: jdaggett has concerns about the fact that logical properties are in the draft
16:52:07 [fantasai]: and that people think it will be approved by the CSSWG
16:52:17 [glazou]: aaah :)
16:52:35 [fantasai]: jdaggett: We shouldn't be representing these as anything that is stable or approved by the CSSWG
16:52:46 [howcome]: I share John's concerns on this.
16:52:55 [fantasai]: jdaggett: People are going off and implementing this with the idea that this is going to work into the later stage
16:53:10 [fantasai]: fantasai: So what do you want me to do?
16:53:59 [howcome]: I suggest removing that part of the spec for now, or add the other credible proposals as well and ask for feedback
16:54:20 [fantasai]: jdaggett: These have a lot of side effects on all properties, and there is not enough detail in the spec about these interactions
16:54:34 [fantasai]: fantasai: I AM NOT DONE DRAFTING THIS YET.
16:54:50 [fantasai]: fantasai: obviously there are not enough details!
16:55:00 [Hixie]: Hixie has joined #css
16:55:21 [jdaggett]: jdaggett: we should not be talking about this spec as something that is ready to go to candidate recommendation
16:55:38 [fantasai]: who is talking about this spec as something that is ready for CR?
16:56:00 [jdaggett]: jdaggett: the notes from the EPUB discussion
16:56:18 [fantasai]: Topic: multicol
16:56:45 [fantasai]: glazou: Discussion that if the columns are taller than the viewport, it is very awkward to read
16:56:45 [kojiishi]: notes from EPUB was updated since then
16:57:22 [fantasai]: glazou: The first proposal is to have a note saying that giving a higher height than the viewport to a multicol element provides accessibility/usability issues
16:57:46 [fantasai]: glazou: The second one is to add another control to have more control over the height of the multicol element
16:57:53 [ChrisL]: it would be nice to fix that for tables too
16:58:18 [fantasai]: sylvaing: We have the same issue with tables
16:58:34 [fantasai]: glazou: I would suggest a note, I will send to the mailing list, to make it clear
16:58:59 [arronei]: arronei has joined #CSS
16:59:02 [fantasai]: Bert: overflow on any element causes problems
16:59:19 [fantasai]: glazou: Tables and multicol are the ones where you have to scroll back and forth a lot
16:59:27 [fantasai]: glazou: Setting overflow is a decision from the author
16:59:59 [fantasai]: ACTION glazou: Propose note for multicol explaining the problem with column lengths longer than the viewport
16:59:59 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-269 - Propose note for multicol explaining the problem with column lengths longer than the viewport [on Daniel Glazman - due 2010-10-27].
17:00:36 [fantasai]: Tab will prepare his proposal and flexbox topics for discussion at TPAC
17:00:37 [Zakim]: -David_Baron
17:00:39 [fantasai]: Meeting closed.
17:00:41 [Zakim]: -jdaggett
17:00:41 [Zakim]: -ChrisL
17:00:41 [Zakim]: -[Apple]
17:00:42 [Zakim]: -sylvaing
17:00:44 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
17:00:46 [Zakim]: - +1.650.766.aacc
17:00:48 [Zakim]: -plinss
17:00:52 [Zakim]: -Bert
17:00:56 [Zakim]: -glazou
17:01:07 [Zakim]: -kojiishi
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17:04:40 [Zakim]: -fantasai
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17:09:40 [Zakim]: disconnecting the lone participant, TabAtkins_, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
17:09:44 [Zakim]: Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
17:09:46 [Zakim]: Attendees were dsinger, jdaggett, glazou, +1.253.307.aaaa, smfr, +1.650.253.aabb, plinss, TabAtkins_, arronei, kojiishi, Bert, fantasai, sylvaing, David_Baron, dethbakin, ChrisL,
17:09:49 [Zakim]: ... +1.650.766.aacc
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19:31:46 [fantasai]: RRSAgent: make minutes
19:31:46 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-CSS-minutes.html fantasai
19:31:48 [fantasai]: RRSAgent: pointer
19:31:48 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2010/10/20-CSS-irc#T19-31-48
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