IRC log of poiwg on 2010-10-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:57 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #poiwg
13:57:57 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-irc
13:57:59 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:57:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #poiwg
13:58:01 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
13:58:01 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:58:02 [trackbot]
Meeting: Points of Interest Working Group Teleconference
13:58:02 [trackbot]
Date: 19 October 2010
13:58:21 [matt]
zakim, this will be POIWG
13:58:22 [Zakim]
ok, matt; I see UW_POI()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:59:17 [Zakim]
UW_POI()10:00AM has now started
13:59:26 [Zakim]
+ +39.011.228.aaaa
13:59:39 [marengo]
Zakim, aaaa is marengo
13:59:39 [Zakim]
+marengo; got it
13:59:57 [marengo]
Zakim, mute me
13:59:57 [Zakim]
sorry, marengo, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
14:00:52 [Zakim]
+ +1.919.439.aabb
14:01:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.312.894.aacc
14:01:05 [marengo]
Zakim, mute me
14:01:05 [Zakim]
marengo should now be muted
14:01:07 [Ronald]
Ronald has joined #poiwg
14:01:09 [matt]
zakim, code?
14:01:09 [Zakim]
the conference code is 76494 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), matt
14:01:51 [Zakim]
+Matt
14:01:58 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:02:06 [matt]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see marengo (muted), +1.919.439.aabb, +1.312.894.aacc, Matt, [IPcaller]
14:02:15 [matt]
zakim, aabb is Andy
14:02:15 [Zakim]
+Andy; got it
14:02:27 [matt]
zakim, aacc is Karl
14:02:27 [Zakim]
+Karl; got it
14:02:28 [Zakim]
+ +3539149aadd
14:02:42 [matt]
zakim, ipcall is Vinnie
14:02:46 [Zakim]
sorry, matt, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcall'
14:02:48 [matt]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:50 [Zakim]
+ +44.750.800.aaee
14:02:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, [IPcaller], +3539149aadd, +44.750.800.aaee
14:03:03 [matt]
zakim, aaee is Gary
14:03:03 [Zakim]
+Gary; got it
14:03:11 [matt]
zakim, ipcaller is Vinnie
14:03:11 [Zakim]
+Vinnie; got it
14:03:15 [matt]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, Vinnie, +3539149aadd, Gary
14:03:44 [matt]
zakim, vinnie is ipcaller?
14:03:49 [matt]
zakim, aadd is Vinnie
14:03:50 [Zakim]
+ +33.4.76.61.aaff
14:03:56 [Zakim]
+ipcaller?; got it
14:04:02 [Zakim]
+Vinnie; got it
14:04:32 [matt]
zakim, aaff is Jacques
14:04:32 [Zakim]
+Jacques; got it
14:04:37 [matt]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:04:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, ipcaller?, Vinnie, Gary, Jacques
14:05:34 [Zakim]
+??P36
14:05:40 [danbri]
zakim, ??P36 is danbri
14:05:41 [Zakim]
+danbri; got it
14:05:58 [matt]
zakim, Vinnie is Vinod
14:05:58 [Zakim]
+Vinod; got it
14:06:04 [Ronald]
Hi, I am in the conference call, but I don't think you can hear me
14:06:13 [Zakim]
+ +3539149aagg
14:06:19 [Andy]
no we can not ronald
14:06:30 [Ronald]
ok, let me try it again
14:06:39 [Zakim]
-ipcaller?
14:06:58 [matt]
zakim, Vinod is Vinnie_Reynolds
14:06:58 [Zakim]
+Vinnie_Reynolds; got it
14:07:07 [matt]
zakim, aagg is Vinod_Hegde
14:07:07 [Zakim]
+Vinod_Hegde; got it
14:07:09 [Luca]
Luca has joined #poiwg
14:07:36 [matt]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:07:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, Vinnie_Reynolds, Gary, Jacques, danbri, Vinod_Hegde
14:08:14 [matt-test]
matt-test has joined #poiwg
14:08:22 [vinny]
vinny has joined #poiwg
14:08:33 [Karl_]
Karl_ has joined #poiwg
14:08:35 [matt-test]
matt-test has left #poiwg
14:08:35 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.848.aahh
14:08:41 [vinod]
vinod has joined #poiwg
14:08:46 [vinny]
hi
14:08:58 [Zakim]
+??P42
14:09:09 [cperey]
zakim, aahh is me
14:09:09 [Zakim]
+cperey; got it
14:09:23 [matt]
zakim, ??p42 is Ronald
14:09:23 [Zakim]
+Ronald; got it
14:09:25 [ggale]
ggale has joined #poiwg
14:09:26 [matt]
zakim, who is here?
14:09:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt, Vinnie_Reynolds, Gary, Jacques, danbri, Vinod_Hegde, cperey, Ronald
14:09:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ggale, vinod, Karl_, vinny, Luca, Ronald, Zakim, RRSAgent, lemordan, marengo, matt, cperey, Andy, danbri, trackbot
14:09:47 [Zakim]
+??P43
14:09:56 [ggale]
Gary (phone) == ggale(IRC)
14:10:00 [matt]
zakim, ??p43 is Carl_Reed
14:10:01 [Zakim]
+Carl_Reed; got it
14:10:17 [matt]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-poiwg/2010Oct/0002
14:10:29 [matt]
Topic: Roll call
14:10:31 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:10:31 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:10:36 [Andy]
Roll call and selection of secretary
14:10:41 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:10:41 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:11:00 [lemordan]
just to test
14:11:03 [matt]
Scribe: matt
14:11:15 [matt]
matt: Please say your name when you start to talk so I can learn names
14:11:17 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:11:17 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:11:19 [matt]
matt: and voices.
14:11:28 [matt]
Topic: Introductions
14:11:47 [matt]
Andy: I'm Andy Braun a Director of Technology Strategy at SonyEricsson.
14:11:49 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:11:49 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:12:21 [matt]
zakim, mute em
14:12:21 [Zakim]
sorry, matt, I do not know which phone connection belongs to em
14:12:22 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:12:22 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:12:35 [marengo]
Zakim, unmute me
14:12:35 [Zakim]
marengo should no longer be muted
14:12:36 [matt]
matt: I'm the team contact for this group. I also do Voice browsing and Geolocation.
14:12:44 [marengo]
q+
14:13:26 [matt]
Carl: I'm the CTO of the OGC. I've been working in geospatial technologies since 1969. I'm very interested in anything to do with standards around geospatial services and encodings.
14:13:50 [matt]
marengo: I'm Marco (and Luca) from Telecom Italia. We're working in research for AR technologies.
14:14:03 [marengo]
Zakim, mute me
14:14:03 [Zakim]
marengo should now be muted
14:14:28 [matt]
Karl: I work at NavTeq, I'm part of a team that does POI systems/descriptions. I'm interested because the business supply chain for POI interchange is getting very long and that drives us down the road of shared descriptions.
14:14:49 [matt]
Ronald: I'm head of R&D at Layar. Normally Dirk, the CTO would be here as well. We're interested in POI representations and want to contribute to the standards.
14:15:42 [danbri]
rrsagent, pointer?
14:15:42 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-irc#T14-15-42
14:15:43 [matt]
Vinny: Vinny and Vinod from DERI. I'm researching geospatial information in the semantic Web. We're new to the AR area, but we think linked data is important.
14:16:08 [matt]
Vinod: We're looking at how AR can benefit from linked data.
14:16:11 [Carl]
Carl has joined #poiwg
14:16:34 [matt]
cperey: Christine Perey, I helped start the W3C AR workshop in Barcelona and just organized a 2 day meeting on AR standards last week.
14:17:00 [matt]
Jacques: I'm researching a system for indoor/outdoor navigation for blind people.
14:17:04 [matt]
zakim, who is speaking?
14:17:16 [Zakim]
matt, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Vinnie_Reynolds (2%), Gary (99%), Vinod_Hegde (4%)
14:17:47 [matt]
Gary: Working at Nokia, and prior to that at Yahoo, been working in geospatial for ten years or so. Been working on the place database available at ??
14:17:50 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:17:50 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:17:56 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:17:56 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:18:01 [matt]
s/??/maps.ovi.com/
14:18:05 [matt]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:18:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see marengo (muted), Andy, Karl, Matt (muted), Vinnie_Reynolds, Gary, Jacques, danbri, Vinod_Hegde, cperey, Ronald, Carl_Reed
14:18:08 [ggale]
maps.ovi.com ... that's the one
14:18:15 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:18:15 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:18:34 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:18:34 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:18:49 [danbri]
http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/
14:19:14 [matt]
danbri: Working at ?? in Amsterdam. I used to work at W3C. Most of my work is around the Web of Data stuff. I edit the basic geo vocabulary and worked to organize the AR dev camp here a few months ago.
14:19:28 [matt]
Topic: Administrative
14:19:30 [vinny]
zakim, do you mean you couldn't hear me ?
14:19:30 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, vinny.
14:19:36 [danbri]
(i work at http://www.vu.nl/nl/index.asp)
14:20:11 [matt]
Andy: (Sorry for the google links, I work in Google docs and it apparently embedded these within the mail)
14:20:12 [Zakim]
-marengo
14:20:12 [Andy]
http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/
14:20:36 [matt]
-> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=45386&public=1 participants
14:20:55 [Zakim]
+marengo
14:21:06 [matt]
Andy: Probably another 6-8 people who have expressed interest in joining that aren't on there. We'll have more over the next few weeks surely.
14:21:26 [marengo]
Zakim, mute me
14:21:26 [Zakim]
marengo should now be muted
14:22:00 [matt]
Andy: The public email list is: public-poiwg@w3.org -- just to reiterate: all technical discussions should happen on the mailing list. These minutes will be posted to the mailing list. We can either release a draft set of minutes to the member mailing list, give folks 24 hours or so to peruse them and then push them out, or we could just push them to the public list.
14:22:15 [Carl_Reed]
Carl_Reed has joined #poiwg
14:22:19 [matt]
Andy: Quick show of hands? Do you want an opportunity to review the minutes before sending them out, or is it fine to send them out immediately?
14:22:19 [Karl_]
i vote for immediately
14:22:25 [cperey]
+1
14:22:30 [vinny]
no opinion
14:22:36 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:22:36 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:22:39 [ggale]
+1 for public
14:22:46 [Carl_Reed]
+1
14:22:46 [Ronald]
+1 for public
14:22:57 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:22:57 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:23:04 [matt]
RESOLUTION: Make minutes public immediately without review.
14:23:09 [matt]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:23:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt
14:23:39 [matt]
Andy: The member only list we will only use primarily for member-only face to faces. Announcing details of the calls, etc, things we might need not be public.
14:24:07 [matt]
Andy: I'll put a poll out by tomorrow asking everyone to vote on a call time. I picked this one because it seemed reasonable enough for most people. I'll put a poll up with a few selections and send it to the mailing list.
14:24:19 [Karl_]
eu afternoons = NA mornings = good
14:24:38 [Andy]
ACTION: Matt to describe tools
14:24:39 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-1 - Describe tools [on Matt Womer - due 2010-10-26].
14:24:47 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:24:47 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:24:49 [matt]
Topic: Tools
14:25:40 [matt]
ACTION-1?
14:25:40 [trackbot]
ACTION-1 -- Matt Womer to describe tools -- due 2010-10-26 -- OPEN
14:25:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/track/actions/1
14:26:34 [marengo_]
marengo_ has joined #poiwg
14:27:03 [JonathanJ]
JonathanJ has joined #poiwg
14:27:05 [matt]
ISSUE-1?
14:27:05 [trackbot]
ISSUE-1 does not exist
14:27:26 [matt]
close ACTION-1
14:27:26 [trackbot]
ACTION-1 Describe tools closed
14:28:30 [Zakim]
+??P45
14:29:06 [JonathanJ]
zakim, +??P45 is JonathanJ
14:29:06 [Zakim]
sorry, JonathanJ, I do not recognize a party named '+??P45'
14:29:26 [matt]
zakim, ??P45 is Jonathan
14:29:26 [Zakim]
+Jonathan; got it
14:29:35 [matt]
zakim, who is here?
14:29:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Andy, Karl, Matt, Vinnie_Reynolds, Gary, Jacques, danbri, Vinod_Hegde, cperey, Ronald, Carl_Reed, marengo (muted), Jonathan
14:29:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see JonathanJ, marengo, Carl_Reed, Carl, ggale, vinod, Karl_, vinny, Luca, Ronald, Zakim, RRSAgent, lemordan, matt, cperey, Andy, danbri, trackbot
14:29:46 [danbri]
q+ to show queuing
14:29:48 [danbri]
q-
14:30:03 [danbri]
ack marengo
14:30:21 [matt]
q+ to say this is how queuing works
14:30:23 [matt]
q?
14:30:26 [ggale]
Information overload ... is all this documented online somewhere?
14:30:29 [danbri]
ack matt
14:30:29 [Zakim]
matt, you wanted to say this is how queuing works
14:30:47 [danbri]
see http://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/Zakim_Tips and nearby
14:30:50 [ggale]
This is deeply cool but head has reached capacity!
14:31:02 [danbri]
-if you find useful things, the wiki is a good place to share
14:31:15 [matt]
-> http://www.w3.org/Guide/ member guide
14:31:32 [cperey]
Matt, will there be a wiki for this group?
14:32:18 [Andy]
cperey, yes i will bring up next
14:32:45 [Andy]
Or actually prior to Use case discussion
14:32:45 [matt]
matt: this group is awful
14:32:49 [matt]
s/awful/great!/
14:33:02 [matt]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:33:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt
14:33:43 [matt]
-> http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Main_Page wiki
14:33:50 [Andy]
http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/Main_Page
14:36:09 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:36:09 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:36:57 [matt]
Andy: Regarding enforcement of "Good Standing" -- I don't want to get into it, but in general if you want to participate in the WG, you should participate. I don't think we'll enforce much of it.
14:37:00 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:37:00 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:37:02 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:37:02 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:37:20 [matt]
agenda?
14:37:21 [danbri]
(imho 'good standing' is more about people making/keeping commitments (not promising too much), rather than 'not putting in enough hours')
14:37:56 [matt]
Andy: One thing I'll ask for this meeting: does the ten o'clock Boston time work well for people? If we don't have West Coast people maybe 9 am would work?
14:38:03 [vinny]
fine for vinny/vinod in ireland
14:38:06 [cperey]
+1 for Beijing
14:38:11 [Carl]
10 AM east works best for me
14:38:12 [matt]
Andy: Earlier time is probably more convenient for Asia.
14:38:16 [Karl_]
ok for me
14:38:17 [cperey]
at 9 AM Eastern
14:38:19 [marengo]
+1 to keep this timeslot
14:38:20 [danbri]
this is ok for me
14:38:27 [Ronald]
ok for me
14:38:37 [matt]
Unfortunately Tuesday is the only day I have packed full, but other days works for me at this time.
14:38:40 [matt]
(or any time)
14:38:50 [matt]
Andy: Feel free to put your comments in IRC, I'll review them before putting out the poll.
14:38:52 [Karl_]
frequency?
14:38:54 [cperey]
who cannot do 9 AM Eastern?
14:39:12 [cperey]
weekly
14:39:15 [matt]
Topic: Tentative Face to Face Dates
14:39:25 [Carl]
Hard for me but Raj Singh would be OK (he is in Boston)
14:39:32 [matt]
Andy: I need to square away meeting space, but at the moment, I'm looking at December 7 and 8, maybe the 9th.
14:39:38 [vinny]
where ?
14:39:57 [matt]
Andy: I'm looking at Atlanta, Georgia, US.
14:40:01 [Karl_]
7th is bad, 8-9 is OK
14:40:19 [cperey]
what are some of the other locations you are considering?
14:40:20 [JonathanJ]
+1 8-9
14:40:21 [matt]
Andy: Alex Hill has talked about co-hosting it at Georgia Tech. That would also let us look at some of their projects as a break from the working meeting.
14:40:23 [Carl]
I am in Sydney at OGC TC and then ISO meetings at that time
14:40:35 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:40:35 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:41:02 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:41:02 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:41:11 [Zakim]
-Jonathan
14:41:14 [matt]
cperey: Have you considered other locations? Maybe Germany or European cities?
14:41:38 [vinny]
i can organise dublin probably
14:41:41 [matt]
Andy: The only European city I have access to is Copenhagen. That's an option, but getting people to go to Scandinavia in December might be hard.
14:41:46 [Carl]
As the OGC has a great interst in POI as it relates to gazetteer, perhaps we can host an Australia/Asia ad-hoc in Sydney?
14:41:47 [ggale]
ggale has joined #poiwg
14:41:52 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:41:58 [matt]
cperey: Maybe others on the call can host?
14:42:13 [ggale]
I can certainly look at hosting here in Berlin
14:42:25 [ggale]
Not necessarily the first meeting though
14:42:41 [matt]
Andy: I'll put my proposal on the member list, let's have that discussion between now and the end of this week.
14:42:49 [ggale]
Is Atlanta the only option for the US?
14:42:50 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:42:50 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:43:19 [ggale]
I have a preference for the Bay Area but understand that doesn't work for everyone
14:43:20 [Andy]
ggale I could also manage San Francisco
14:43:48 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:43:48 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:43:58 [Andy]
ACTION: Andy to post to member list a call for hosts
14:43:58 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Andy
14:44:21 [matt]
ACTION: Andrew to post to member list a call for hosts
14:44:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2 - Post to member list a call for hosts [on Andrew Braun - due 2010-10-26].
14:44:32 [matt]
Topic: Use case creation
14:45:11 [matt]
Andy: Last week at ISMAR Christine put together a meeting of various organizations to discuss AR standards. As a team we came up with three generic AR use cases. Thought it might be worthwhile to walk through those AR use cases.
14:45:12 [cperey]
see http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/Three_Use_Cases.pdf
14:45:48 [ggale]
Would also help if members state briefly on IRC what their prime objectives are for participation on the WG ... ?
14:46:48 [ggale]
Works for me
14:46:54 [danbri]
could also action people to send that as intro message before next week's call
14:47:33 [Carl]
By email OK?
14:48:09 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.764.aaii
14:48:15 [Carl_Reed]
Sorry - need to use correct name tag. Thanks, JonathanJ
14:48:34 [matt]
cperey: The three use cases were: 1. assisting a user through a process in the real world 2. 'social AR' in essence, though not necessarily shared. user attaches or attributes content to something in the real world 3. a system that supports bi-directional interaction between two or more users with a real-time communication component to it.
14:49:28 [cperey]
feel free to check out the other materials created
14:49:35 [matt]
Andy: Probably a good first one to walk through would be the 'Guide' use case. It's generic enough for the typical use case of overlaying a wiring diagram over an engine for maintenance work.
14:49:38 [cperey]
the content is aggregated here: http://www.perey.com/ARStandardsMeetingOutputs.html
14:50:09 [matt]
Andy: the 2nd would be similar to the typical AR browser. Finding a place, investigating a POI, etc. Other thoughts on this one? Are there specific things in POI that we should include?
14:50:11 [Luca]
Luca has joined #poiwg
14:50:21 [Carl_Reed]
How familiar is this group with gazetteers?
14:50:40 [cperey]
ditto, please share
14:51:00 [danbri]
zakim, who is speaking?
14:51:11 [Zakim]
danbri, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andy (4%), Karl (78%), Ronald (10%)
14:51:11 [matt]
Karl_: Just to state my objectives: the world is suffering a lack of shared descriptions for places of business, etc.
14:51:21 [cperey]
that was not the objective of the AR use cases we developed
14:51:25 [ggale]
Absolutely +1 Carl
14:51:38 [matt]
Karl_: There have been various attempts at it, but there hasn't been one congealed standard for it, how that helps AR is one obvious stepping stone.
14:52:02 [danbri]
for describing businesses, there is a healthy amount of http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/ data floating around lately
14:52:05 [Zakim]
-cperey
14:52:08 [matt]
ggale: That mirrors my objectives on this. In addition to working out who means what across the multitude of siloed POI data at the moment.
14:52:25 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:52:25 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:52:38 [Carl_Reed]
I will post links and information on gazetteers to the wiki. Gazetteers in a sense are a shared description of a place. The shared description are done by authorities, such as the UN or NGA
14:52:56 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:52:56 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:53:22 [matt]
Matt: We obviously have non-AR use cases, we just happened to have this stuff from the AR workshop last week. Perhaps an action to start collecting the non-ar use cases.
14:53:56 [matt]
Andy: Agreed. As Karl said POIs are important to AR. If we have a single description of business etc then we want to make sure it fits the AR use cases as well. The fact that we had some AR work done already made it a good discussion point.
14:53:59 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:53:59 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:54:18 [rajsingh]
rajsingh has joined #poiwg
14:54:45 [Zakim]
+cperey
14:54:56 [matt]
Karl: Between myself and Gary we can come up with the most common use cases for business listings. Facilitates search, and navigation.
14:54:58 [ggale]
Carl ... want to set up a call on this and discuss before next WG call?
14:55:12 [ggale]
Me == gary.gale@nokia.com
14:55:22 [matt]
ACTION: Karl to write up some 'non-AR' use cases for POI data format
14:55:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3 - Write up some 'non-AR' use cases for POI data format [on Karl Seiler - due 2010-10-26].
14:55:27 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:55:27 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:55:38 [Karl_]
karl.seiler@navteq.com
14:56:00 [Carl_Reed]
Yes, good to have POI use cases independent of AR - AR is just one class of apps that can utilize POI
14:56:16 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:56:16 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:56:31 [cperey]
+1 to Matt's suggestion
14:56:36 [danbri]
q+ to mention feedback from a colleague, "Why are they only doing points?" / do we literally mean lat/long *points*, or rather, entities of interest?
14:57:01 [matt]
ack danbri
14:57:01 [Zakim]
danbri, you wanted to mention feedback from a colleague, "Why are they only doing points?" / do we literally mean lat/long *points*, or rather, entities of interest?
14:57:08 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:57:08 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:57:53 [matt]
danbri: I mentioned the group to a colleague who is doing some work on geodata in Somalia. He took a very precise reading of the word "points" -- x, y coordinates. I took it to mean entities of interest, and a signal to the world that we're starting basic and building up.
14:58:14 [matt]
danbri: We're going to start with things and attach properties rather than try to reinvent GML.
14:58:28 [cperey]
who is speaking? Carl?
14:58:55 [matt]
Karl: I'd love for us to discuss the scope of things we're trying to describe. One thing is locations: points, locations, geofenced things, etc. Not to be confused with places of interest, which can have multiple locations, a building that has a name, etc.
14:58:59 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
14:58:59 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
14:59:06 [Carl_Reed]
There is an ISO definition for "point" in ISO 19107.
14:59:23 [cperey]
I like that!
14:59:26 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:59:26 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
14:59:39 [matt]
Karl: What Gary was alluding to was what's the core-shared common set of descriptions of a business.
14:59:44 [cperey]
but an entity of interest could be a person, or a car or an object which is not fixed in space
14:59:52 [matt]
Karl_: I rankle at the word business, many of them aren't businesses.
15:00:34 [Andy]
I second Christine's point about people
15:00:57 [matt]
Gary: We need to understand a few different pieces of terminology: places, points, ??-oids. Unless we lock this down at an early stage there will be bedlam from people inferring things.
15:01:01 [Carl_Reed]
q+ to give brief description of gazetteer
15:01:05 [matt]
q+ to suggest a terminology wiki page
15:01:13 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:01:13 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:01:14 [Andy]
In fact this is why I think some use cases are important to see what scenarios need to be covered by the spec.
15:01:29 [matt]
ack carl
15:01:29 [Zakim]
Carl_Reed, you wanted to give brief description of gazetteer
15:01:38 [matt]
zakim, mute me
15:01:39 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
15:01:58 [matt]
Carl: I think it might be useful to look at what's been done in gazetteer -- these have been used for quite a long time in GIS and related industries.
15:02:05 [danbri]
back in the summer I posted a list of kinda 'test cases', http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poiwg/2010Aug/0031.html ... list of potential 'things that we might consider POIs'; in Karl's sense, these are places (unbounded), not just locations.
15:02:13 [Andy]
zakim, mute me
15:02:19 [Zakim]
Andy should now be muted
15:02:34 [matt]
Carl: Also in mobile LBS. Also known as yellow pages. They're collections of entities of interest. Landmarks, cities, towns, roadcrossings, etc. They'll have some sort of coordinate to specify the location on the earth along with a set of properties.
15:03:01 [ggale]
q+ ??-oids was a reference to centroids
15:03:02 [matt]
Carl: There are some really large gazetteers out there already. ?? maintains one with 2 million points. Many nav companies have these, may not call them gazetteers.
15:03:11 [matt]
s/??-oids/centroids/
15:03:26 [Andy]
Karl with a K, do you have a gazetteers
15:03:26 [matt]
Carl: At OGC we're doing a standardized interface for these.
15:03:38 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:03:40 [matt]
q?
15:03:43 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:03:46 [matt]
ack matt
15:03:46 [danbri]
q+ to ask re types/categories in gazetteer world
15:03:47 [Zakim]
matt, you wanted to suggest a terminology wiki page
15:04:06 [cperey]
what about the terminology which we began in Seoul?
15:04:23 [matt]
ACTION: ggale to start terminology page on POI wiki
15:04:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-4 - Start terminology page on POI wiki [on Gary Gale - due 2010-10-26].
15:04:28 [matt]
zakim, mute me
15:04:28 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
15:04:28 [Luca]
Luca has joined #poiwg
15:04:29 [matt]
q?
15:04:34 [cperey]
what sort of terminology will be included?
15:04:42 [Karl_]
q+ categories
15:04:46 [danbri]
ack danbri
15:04:46 [Zakim]
danbri, you wanted to ask re types/categories in gazetteer world
15:04:50 [Carl_Reed]
For all things geospatial, ISO TC 211 maintains a public terms and definitions application. The OGC and ISO communities have developed these terms and definitions.
15:04:51 [matt]
danbri: To what extent do gazetteers have common types, categories, etc?
15:05:17 [Andy]
cperey this may be different as it POI while that was heavily AR
15:05:22 [matt]
Karl_: Obviously from the nav side of the business we have a number of them with tens-going-on-hundreds of millions of places in them. We really struggle with categorization.
15:05:38 [matt]
Karl_: We have our own plus have to pay homage to @@ and ?? standards.
15:05:40 [danbri]
"we really struggle with the issue of categorisation ... one one hand, easy to use hierarch system, on other paying homage to [missed] standards"
15:05:43 [Andy]
s/it POI/it is POI/
15:06:02 [Andy]
RRSagent, draft minutes
15:06:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html Andy
15:06:05 [matt]
Karl_: We've been wrestling with this for quite a while.
15:06:08 [danbri]
(btw I heard at .nl GeoNovum meeting last week that W3C SKOS is getting used more and more for code lists in Geo)
15:06:09 [cperey]
I think a terminology developed by this WG should contain concepts and terms which are useful to both
15:06:18 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:06:18 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:06:34 [matt]
s/@@/NAICS/
15:06:39 [danbri]
http://www.census.gov/eos/www/naics/
15:06:44 [danbri]
replaces SIC codes
15:06:57 [matt]
s/??/NACE/
15:06:58 [danbri]
"The North American Industry Classification System (NAICS) is the standard used by Federal statistical agencies in classifying business establishments for the purpose of collecting, analyzing, and publishing statistical data related to the U.S. business economy."
15:07:02 [matt]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt
15:07:14 [matt]
q?
15:07:24 [danbri]
NACE - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_classification_of_economic_activities_in_the_European_Community (i think :)
15:07:29 [matt]
ack next
15:07:52 [matt]
zakim, mute me
15:07:52 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
15:08:04 [matt]
Karl_: Categories are a key point of complexity for the challenge ahead.
15:08:09 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:08:09 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:08:18 [cperey]
+q
15:08:52 [cperey]
I would like to recommend that people review https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0As8Gui74DrCDdHcyUU1WS0NGc2V6RC13YzFCUVBaUVE&hl=en
15:08:57 [cperey]
for terminology
15:09:07 [Zakim]
-danbri
15:09:19 [matt]
ack
15:09:21 [matt]
ack next
15:09:22 [danbri]
somewhat related https://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=29334
15:09:28 [matt]
zakim, mute me
15:09:28 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
15:09:46 [Andy]
zakim, unmute me
15:09:46 [Zakim]
Andy should no longer be muted
15:09:47 [Zakim]
+??P12
15:10:02 [matt]
-> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0As8Gui74DrCDdHcyUU1WS0NGc2V6RC13YzFCUVBaUVE&hl=en#gid=0 beginning of terminology
15:10:20 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:10:20 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:10:48 [Carl_Reed]
Wikipedia info on gazetteer - good start - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazetteer
15:10:56 [matt]
zakim, mute me
15:10:56 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
15:11:42 [matt]
q?
15:11:54 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:11:54 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:11:56 [Zakim]
-Matt
15:12:15 [matt]
zakim, code?
15:12:16 [Zakim]
the conference code is 76494 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), matt
15:12:24 [Zakim]
+Matt
15:12:28 [matt]
zakim, mute me
15:12:29 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
15:12:34 [danbri]
Carl_Reed, perhaps for another meeting would you be able to give some background of https://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=29334 ? (the changereq to use SKOS for codelists in GML...)
15:12:35 [matt]
Chair: Andy
15:12:44 [matt]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:12:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt
15:12:54 [matt]
Topic: Wrap up
15:13:00 [cperey]
+1 for discussion on the mailing list
15:13:11 [matt]
Andy: Maybe we should do an around the room, perhaps on the public mailing list makes more sense.
15:13:24 [Carl_Reed]
ISO TC 211 Terms - http://www.isotc211.org/TC211_Multi-Lingual_Glossary-2010-06-06_Published.xls
15:13:27 [matt]
Andy: Just a short intro email to describe what you're looking to get out of the group.
15:13:38 [Ronald]
+1 mailing list
15:13:42 [matt]
Andy: Anyone object to doing it on the mailing list? Speak up now.
15:13:42 [vinny]
+1
15:13:55 [ggale]
+1 no objections
15:13:56 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:13:56 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:14:00 [matt]
Andy: No objections.
15:14:25 [matt]
JonathanJ: Could you tell me what is the condition of invitation of invited expert in this WG?
15:14:57 [Zakim]
-Carl_Reed
15:15:02 [JonathanJ]
I hope to invite some korean invited experts
15:15:25 [matt]
Matt: I think we'll follow the typical rules for IEs rather than the HTML5 method of "anyone can be IE".
15:15:54 [matt]
ACTION: JonathanJ to introduce Matt and Andy to Korean potential IEs
15:15:54 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - JonathanJ
15:15:57 [matt]
ACTION: Jonathan to introduce Matt and Andy to Korean potential IEs
15:15:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-5 - Introduce Matt and Andy to Korean potential IEs [on Jonathan Jeon - due 2010-10-26].
15:16:18 [Carl_Reed]
Korea and Japan have been working several ISO standards (in conjunction with the OGC) for "place", such as place identifiers
15:16:32 [matt]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:16:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt
15:17:00 [matt]
Topic: Action review
15:17:02 [matt]
-> http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html#ActionSummary
15:18:11 [matt]
ACTION: Everyone to send a brief overview of what your objectives are for this WG
15:18:11 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Everyone
15:18:32 [ggale]
All -- free free to mail me with terms you'd like to see defined in the terminology wiki
15:18:40 [JonathanJ]
s/%01ACTION//
15:18:42 [Luca]
Luca has joined #poiwg
15:18:51 [matt]
zakim, umute me
15:18:51 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'umute me', matt
15:18:54 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:18:54 [Zakim]
Matt was not muted, matt
15:18:54 [matt]
e
15:19:33 [matt]
zakim, mute me
15:19:33 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
15:19:45 [matt]
ACTION: Everyone to mail Gary with terms that you'd like to see defined in the terminology wiki
15:19:45 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - Everyone
15:20:00 [cperey]
Gary, please see the terms in this figure http://www.perey.com/ARStandards/Landscape_of_AR_topics.pdf
15:20:06 [matt]
Andy: if everyone could double check their ability to edit in the wiki please.
15:20:08 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:20:08 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:20:29 [ggale]
q+
15:20:39 [matt]
-> http://www.w3.org/2010/POI/wiki/User:Mdw my user page
15:20:51 [matt]
ack next
15:21:09 [matt]
ggale: I just looked on the participants page, but I don't see a link to login.
15:21:21 [cperey]
signing off now, good night!
15:21:26 [cperey]
thanks!
15:21:31 [Andy]
thanks good night
15:21:37 [Zakim]
-cperey
15:21:47 [matt]
http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=45386
15:22:27 [ggale]
Thanks all ... good first call ... been enjoyable
15:22:35 [Ronald]
I cannot login on the wiki, gives an error message
15:22:35 [JonathanJ]
Thanks all
15:22:35 [Karl_]
adios
15:22:39 [Zakim]
-danbri
15:22:42 [Zakim]
-Vinnie_Reynolds
15:22:43 [Andy]
bye
15:22:44 [Zakim]
-marengo
15:22:45 [matt]
zakim, drop me
15:22:45 [Zakim]
Matt is being disconnected
15:22:46 [Ronald]
bye
15:22:46 [ggale]
TTFN have a good night all
15:22:46 [Zakim]
-Matt
15:22:47 [matt]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:22:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt
15:22:51 [Zakim]
-Andy
15:22:52 [Zakim]
- +1.617.764.aaii
15:22:54 [Zakim]
-Karl
15:22:58 [Zakim]
-Vinod_Hegde
15:23:00 [Zakim]
-Gary
15:23:00 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
15:23:02 [Zakim]
-Ronald
15:23:19 [Ronald]
yes
15:25:27 [Ronald]
Yes, I can see that one... let me verify my account details
15:27:08 [matt]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:27:08 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jacques
15:27:12 [matt]
zakim, drop Jacques
15:27:12 [Zakim]
Jacques is being disconnected
15:27:13 [Zakim]
UW_POI()10:00AM has ended
15:27:15 [Zakim]
Attendees were +39.011.228.aaaa, marengo, +1.919.439.aabb, +1.312.894.aacc, Matt, Andy, Karl, +3539149aadd, +44.750.800.aaee, Gary, +33.4.76.61.aaff, ipcaller?, Jacques, danbri,
15:27:18 [matt]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:27:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/19-poiwg-minutes.html matt
15:27:19 [Zakim]
... +3539149aagg, Vinnie_Reynolds, Vinod_Hegde, +1.617.848.aahh, cperey, Ronald, Carl_Reed, Jonathan, [IPcaller], +1.617.764.aaii
15:27:32 [Ronald]
I am getting this error when I am logging in with the correct credentials:
15:27:33 [Ronald]
Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /u/wikis/mediawiki-1.15.5/extensions/LdapAuthentication/LdapAuthentication.php on line 1304
15:27:40 [matt]
rrsagent, stop