IRC log of au on 2010-10-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:57:37 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #au
19:57:37 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/18-au-irc
19:57:56 [Jan]
Zakim, this will be AUWG
19:57:56 [Zakim]
ok, Jan; I see WAI_AUWG()3:00PM scheduled to start 57 minutes ago
19:58:14 [Jan]
Meeting: WAI AU
19:58:53 [Jan]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0008.html
20:02:25 [Zakim]
WAI_AUWG()3:00PM has now started
20:02:32 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
20:02:38 [Jan]
zaki, code?
20:02:42 [Jan]
zakim, code?
20:02:42 [Zakim]
the conference code is 2894 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Jan
20:02:55 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:02:56 [Zakim]
+??P1
20:03:56 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
20:03:56 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
20:04:21 [Jan]
zakim, ??P1 is really Jutta
20:04:21 [Zakim]
+Jutta; got it
20:07:25 [jeanne]
zakim, who is here?
20:07:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jeanne, Jan, Jutta
20:07:26 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Jan, jeanne, trackbot
20:10:57 [Jan]
Regrets: Sueann N.
20:12:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.571.765.aaaa
20:14:18 [Jan]
chair: Jutta Treviranus
20:14:27 [Jan]
zakim, aaaa is really GregP
20:14:27 [Zakim]
+GregP; got it
20:14:59 [Jan]
Scribe: jeanne
20:15:26 [jeanne]
agenda?
20:15:30 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0008.html
20:15:42 [Jan]
Topic: 1. Planning for additional calls to handle the high volume of proposals
20:15:48 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0007.html
20:15:56 [jeanne]
agenda+ 1. Planning for additional calls to handle the high volume of proposals.
20:15:56 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0007.html
20:15:58 [gpisocky]
gpisocky has joined #au
20:16:04 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 1
20:16:04 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "1. Planning for additional calls to handle the high volume of proposals." taken up [from jeanne]
20:16:19 [jeanne]
agenda+ "Claimants" issue - IBM58, IBM59, and IBM60
20:16:19 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0102.html
20:17:00 [jeanne]
JR: because we have so many comments that we can't get through in 1 hour calls, we propose scheduling some half day meetings
20:17:28 [jeanne]
agenda+ ATAG 2.0 Conformance Proposal
20:17:28 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0104.html
20:17:40 [jeanne]
agenda+ ATAG2 proposal on use of structure
20:17:40 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0001.html
20:17:55 [jeanne]
agenda+ A.2.2.2 Access to Text Presentation (Minimum)
20:17:55 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0002.html
20:17:55 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0004.html
20:18:04 [ARonksley]
ARonksley has joined #au
20:18:46 [jeanne]
JS: Can make most days work except Thursday, and I can move a single Thursday.
20:19:18 [jeanne]
[discussion of Jutta's limited availability]
20:19:46 [Zakim]
+??P4
20:20:09 [jeanne]
zakim, P4 is andrewR
20:20:09 [Zakim]
sorry, jeanne, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'
20:20:26 [jeanne]
zakim, ??P4 is ARonksley
20:20:26 [Zakim]
+ARonksley; got it
20:21:07 [Jan]
Oct 29...works for Jutta, Jan, Jeanne
20:21:17 [Jan]
Jeanne has something 130-300p
20:21:29 [Jan]
Ok for Andrwe
20:22:31 [Jan]
900-1200 ET
20:22:54 [Jan]
Resolution: A supplemental meeting 9-12ET on Oct 29
20:23:16 [Jan]
Topic: 2. "Claimants" issue - IBM58, IBM59, and IBM60
20:23:27 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0102.html
20:25:03 [Jan]
In order to address the comments IBM58, IBM59, and IBM60, we propose to
20:25:05 [Jan]
follow the example set by WCAG which does not specify who a claimant can be.
20:25:06 [Jan]
We propose the following changes to ATAG:
20:25:08 [Jan]
1. Remove #4 Claimants may be anyone (e.g., authoring tool developers,
20:25:10 [Jan]
journalists, other third parties).
20:25:12 [Jan]
2. Remove #5 parenthetical clause "(including claims that include
20:25:14 [Jan]
products for which they are not responsible)"
20:25:39 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept action at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0102.html
20:26:10 [Jan]
Topic: 3. ATAG 2.0 Conformance Proposal
20:26:16 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0104.html
20:26:36 [jeanne]
action: jeanne to update the ATAG 2.0 document with the proposal of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0102.html
20:26:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-302 - Update the ATAG 2.0 document with the proposal of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0102.html [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-10-25].
20:26:48 [Zakim]
-Jan
20:27:10 [jeanne]
agenda?
20:27:18 [jeanne]
zakim, close item 1
20:27:21 [Zakim]
agendum 1, 1. Planning for additional calls to handle the high volume of proposals., closed
20:27:24 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:27:25 [Zakim]
2. "Claimants" issue - IBM58, IBM59, and IBM60 [from jeanne]
20:27:27 [jeanne]
zakim, close item 2
20:27:27 [Zakim]
agendum 2, "Claimants" issue - IBM58, IBM59, and IBM60, closed
20:27:28 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:27:29 [Zakim]
3. ATAG 2.0 Conformance Proposal [from jeanne]
20:27:44 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 2
20:27:44 [Zakim]
agendum 2. ""Claimants" issue - IBM58, IBM59, and IBM60" taken up [from jeanne]
20:27:59 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 3
20:27:59 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "ATAG 2.0 Conformance Proposal" taken up [from jeanne]
20:28:27 [jeanne]
JR: I worked on it with Tim Boland, who did not completely agree on this proposal.
20:29:14 [jeanne]
It goes through the full and partial conformance levels to Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3.
20:29:14 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:30:21 [Jan]
zakim, ??P2 is really Jutta
20:30:22 [Zakim]
+Jutta; got it
20:30:34 [jeanne]
... for example, a checker would claim conformance to parts 1 & 3. A simple tool would claim conformance to 1 & 2, and a full featured too would claim conformance to 1, 2, & 3.
20:31:16 [jeanne]
GP: So a claimant could claim 1 & 2, optionally 3.
20:31:32 [jeanne]
JR: No, for example, Achecker would claim 1 & 3.
20:32:28 [jeanne]
JR: Tim's concerns were general - Does this meet the QA standards of clearly checkable standards?
20:33:16 [jeanne]
... the checking and repair is the hardest piece, so we are pulling back from that by separating it into its own part.
20:33:37 [Jan]
JS: I like it...
20:33:58 [Jan]
JS: I also like the change to 1,2,3
20:34:23 [jeanne]
JR: Does anyone have a concern about it?
20:34:39 [jeanne]
AR: no concerns at this minute
20:34:40 [Jan]
AR: No concern
20:34:45 [Jan]
GP: Support it
20:34:46 [jeanne]
GP: I support it, I like it
20:35:47 [Zakim]
-Jutta.a
20:36:39 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:37:13 [jeanne]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Jutta
20:37:13 [Zakim]
+Jutta; got it
20:37:38 [jeanne]
JT: It achieves what we want and retains the A & B framing.
20:38:04 [Jan]
Resolution: All accept proposal at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0104.html
20:38:21 [jeanne]
Resolution: Accept the rewording of Topic: 3. ATAG 2.0 Conformance Proposal
20:38:21 [jeanne]
<Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0104.html
20:38:28 [Jan]
Topic: 4. ATAG2 proposal on use of structure
20:38:39 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0001.html
20:38:59 [jeanne]
action: Jeanne to update document with the text from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0001.html
20:38:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-303 - Update document with the text from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0001.html [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-10-25].
20:39:05 [jeanne]
zakim, close this item
20:39:05 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
20:39:06 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:39:07 [Zakim]
4. ATAG2 proposal on use of structure [from jeanne]
20:39:13 [jeanne]
zakim, take up item 4
20:39:13 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "ATAG2 proposal on use of structure" taken up [from jeanne]
20:40:25 [jeanne]
JR: The most difficult comment to deal with is that "we want to hide complexity and structure from the user". There are times when simplicity will help accessibility.
20:43:20 [jeanne]
...I moved it to AA. I tried up a number of alternatives, but finding the code behind the method calls, may be useful.
20:43:22 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0001.html
20:44:01 [jeanne]
... obviously, this is useful for a big, big web document. What's the definition of a big, big web document?
20:44:15 [jeanne]
... where do we draw the line and how do we draw the line?
20:45:36 [jeanne]
JT: There are a lot of assumptions that aren't stated, but if we state them, it becomes too complex
20:47:39 [jeanne]
JS: I think that with good examples, we can make it more clear.
20:48:51 [Jan]
JR: Another possibility is to keep what we have at AA or AAA...since I don't think it is essential
20:50:26 [jeanne]
topic: We have a meeting on the 25th when Jutta is away, but we can set up a survey so that those with regrets can participate.
20:50:48 [jeanne]
GP: I have regrets for 25th as well, but will participate with the survey.
20:50:58 [jeanne]
agenda?
20:51:03 [Zakim]
-ARonksley
20:51:03 [Zakim]
-Jutta
20:51:03 [Zakim]
-Jutta.a
20:51:15 [Zakim]
-GregP
20:51:26 [jeanne]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:51:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/18-au-minutes.html jeanne
20:51:30 [Jan]
RRSAgent, make minutes
20:51:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/18-au-minutes.html Jan
20:51:37 [ARonksley]
ARonksley has left #au
20:51:39 [Jan]
RRSAgent, set logs public
20:51:49 [Jan]
Zakim, bye
20:51:49 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Jutta, +1.571.765.aaaa, GregP, ARonksley
20:51:49 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #au
20:51:55 [Jan]
RRSAgent, bye
20:51:55 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/18-au-actions.rdf :
20:51:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jeanne to update the ATAG 2.0 document with the proposal of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010JulSep/0102.html [1]
20:51:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/18-au-irc#T20-26-36
20:51:55 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeanne to update document with the text from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-au/2010OctDec/0001.html [2]
20:51:55 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/18-au-irc#T20-38-59