13:44:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lld
13:44:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-irc
13:44:11 <TomB> rrsagent, bookmark
13:44:11 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-irc#T13-44-11
13:44:17 <TomB> zakim, this will be lld
13:44:18 <Zakim> ok, TomB; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
13:44:24 <TomB> Meeting: LLD XG
13:44:26 <TomB> Chair: Tom
13:45:20 <TomB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Oct/0052.html
13:46:00 <TomB> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html
13:50:37 <TomB> rrsagent, please make record public
13:50:52 <TomB> Regrets: Emmanuelle, Antoine, Lars
13:51:35 <kcoyle> kcoyle has joined #lld
13:51:48 <Zakim> INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
13:51:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:52:04 <TomB> zakim, IPcaller is TomB
13:52:04 <Zakim> +TomB; got it
13:54:26 <marka> marka has joined #lld
13:54:33 <jodi> jodi has joined #LLD
13:54:46 <aseiler> aseiler has joined #lld
13:55:31 <Zakim> +michaelp
13:55:40 <Zakim> + +49.221.400.7.aaaa
13:55:53 <TomB> zakim, aaaa is Anette
13:55:53 <Zakim> +Anette; got it
13:56:13 <jeff_> zakim, michaelp is me
13:56:13 <Zakim> +jeff_; got it
13:56:24 <aseiler> zakim, Anette is aseiler
13:56:24 <Zakim> +aseiler; got it
13:56:24 <marma> marma has joined #lld
13:56:51 <Zakim> +jodi
13:56:59 <AlexanderH> AlexanderH has joined #lld
13:57:30 <aseiler> Zakim, mute me
13:57:30 <Zakim> aseiler should now be muted
13:57:35 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #lld
13:57:37 <GordonD> GordonD has joined #lld
13:57:43 <Zakim> +marma
13:58:00 <marma> zakim, mute me
13:58:00 <Zakim> marma should now be muted
13:58:16 <Zakim> +??P14
13:58:37 <Zakim> -aseiler
13:58:41 <TomB> zakim, ??P14 is AlexanderH
13:58:41 <Zakim> +AlexanderH; got it
13:58:43 <jar_> jar_ has joined #lld
13:58:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:59:35 <Zakim> +aseiler
13:59:37 <marcia> marcia has joined #lld
13:59:51 <rsinger> rsinger has joined #lld
13:59:52 <Zakim> +??P18
14:00:00 <pmurray> pmurray has joined #lld
14:00:01 <aseiler> zakim, mute me
14:00:03 <whalb> whalb has joined #lld
14:00:03 <Zakim> aseiler should now be muted
14:00:14 <TomB> zakim, ??P18 is GordonD
14:00:14 <Zakim> +GordonD; got it
14:00:27 <michaelp> michaelp has joined #lld
14:00:30 <kai> kai has joined #lld
14:00:42 <Zakim> + +43.316.876.aabb
14:00:48 <Zakim> +rsinger
14:00:48 <whalb> zakim, aabb is me
14:00:49 <Zakim> +whalb; got it
14:00:54 <kefo> kefo has joined #lld
14:00:57 <rsinger> zakim, mute me
14:00:57 <Zakim> rsinger should now be muted
14:00:58 <rayd> rayd has joined #lld
14:01:01 <Zakim> +??P21
14:01:05 <Zakim> +pmurray
14:01:06 <Zakim> +[LC]
14:01:15 <rsinger> zakim, unmute me
14:01:15 <Zakim> rsinger should no longer be muted
14:01:17 <Zakim> +??P30
14:01:24 <rsinger> zakim, mute me
14:01:24 <Zakim> rsinger should now be muted
14:01:30 <Zakim> + +1.330.672.aacc
14:01:31 <bvatant> bvatant has joined #lld
14:01:32 <TomB> zakim, LC is Keven
14:01:32 <Zakim> +Keven; got it
14:01:40 <Zakim> +[LC]
14:01:47 <TomB> zakim, aacc is probably Kai
14:01:47 <Zakim> +Kai?; got it
14:01:55 <TomB> zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomB, jeff_ (muted), jodi, marma (muted), AlexanderH, Felix (muted), aseiler (muted), GordonD (muted), whalb, rsinger (muted), ??P21, pmurray (muted), Keven,
14:01:59 <Zakim> ... ??P30, Kai?, [LC]
14:02:03 <Zakim> +jar
14:02:04 <kai> Zakim, ??P30 is kai
14:02:05 <Zakim> +kai; got it
14:02:06 <TomB> zakim, LC is Ray
14:02:06 <Zakim> +Ray; got it
14:02:20 <TomB> zakim, who is on the call?
14:02:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomB, jeff_ (muted), jodi, marma (muted), AlexanderH, Felix (muted), aseiler (muted), GordonD (muted), whalb, rsinger (muted), ??P21, pmurray (muted), Keven,
14:02:26 <marka> same here, phone troubles
14:02:26 <Zakim> ... kai, Kai?, Ray, jar
14:02:51 <kcoyle> karen
14:03:00 <marka> marka has left #lld
14:03:05 <TomB> zakim, ??P21 is probably Karen
14:03:05 <Zakim> +Karen?; got it
14:03:21 <markva> markva has joined #lld
14:03:24 <TomB> zakim, Keven is really defo
14:03:25 <Zakim> +defo; got it
14:03:33 <TomB> zakim, defo is really kefo
14:03:35 <Zakim> +kefo; got it
14:04:48 <Zakim> +??P40
14:05:13 <TomB> zakim, ??P40 is Asaf
14:05:13 <Zakim> +Asaf; got it
14:05:24 <Abartov> Abartov has joined #lld
14:05:47 <TomB> Scribe: whalb
14:05:53 <TomB> Scribenick: whalb
14:05:57 <digikim> digikim has joined #lld
14:06:00 <digikim> hello
14:06:18 <Zakim> + +33.1.44.92.aadd
14:06:29 <TomB> zakim, aadd is bvatant
14:06:29 <Zakim> +bvatant; got it
14:06:44 <ww> all circuits busy on the uk dialin number :(
14:06:56 <whalb> tomb: important thing is to make sure agenda is ok
14:07:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:07:16 <digikim> digikim calling
14:07:23 <digikim> (is zakim awake?)
14:07:29 <TomB> zakim, IPcaller is digikim
14:07:29 <Zakim> +digikim; got it
14:07:51 <whalb> topic: admin
14:08:10 <whalb> proposal: accept minutes of last telco http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html
14:08:18 <whalb> resolved: accept minutes of previous telco
14:08:28 <bvatant> zakim, mute me
14:08:28 <Zakim> bvatant should now be muted
14:08:33 <whalb> topic: Pittsburgh face-to-face meetings
14:08:48 <whalb> tomb: two meetings, one friday afternoon about application profiles
14:08:54 <whalb> ... main meeting on saturday and half of sunday
14:09:19 <rayd> q+
14:09:35 <whalb> ... for the meeting on friday preparation: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010
14:09:43 <whalb> ... content will change until tomorrow
14:11:14 <whalb> marcia: will put a link to current model
14:11:42 <whalb> tomb: meeting on saturday, required reading is charter
14:11:53 <jeff_> zakim, mute me
14:11:54 <Zakim> jeff_ should now be muted
14:12:00 <whalb> ... use cases:
14:12:20 <whalb> ... there is a list of background, topic list, how use cases relate to topics
14:12:28 <Zakim> -rsinger
14:12:29 <Zakim> -marma
14:12:57 <whalb> ... most people will present one use case, a few will have to present more
14:13:12 <whalb> ... people please add names to use cases in brackets
14:13:16 <marma> Got disconnected
14:13:20 <Zakim> +jeff_.a
14:13:30 <Zakim> +rsinger
14:13:30 <marcia> q+
14:13:36 <TomB> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2010Oct/0058.html
14:13:45 <TomB> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Citation_of_Scientific_Datasets
14:13:55 <TomB> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Enhanced_Publications
14:14:02 <jodi> zakim, jeff_a is michaelp
14:14:02 <Zakim> sorry, jodi, I do not recognize a party named 'jeff_a'
14:14:30 <whalb> ... we dont have to assign namens right now to new use cases
14:15:13 <whalb> ... but we need at least one member per use case, each f2f attendant assigned to at least one use case
14:15:19 <Zakim> +marma
14:15:33 <whalb> ... use case assignment is to read use case description and prepare for discussion
14:15:47 <marma> zakim, mute me
14:15:47 <Zakim> marma should now be muted
14:16:00 <marcia> q+ how many minutes for each use case?
14:16:14 <whalb> ... everybody should sign up for at least one use case (to lead discussion)
14:16:28 <whalb> ... maybe prepare some bullet points for driving discussion in the right direction
14:16:30 <Abartov> +q use case owners
14:16:35 <michaelp> I would be happy to lead discussion for Authority date enrichment
14:16:44 <jeff_> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh#Use_case_discussion_9:00-10:30_.2B_11:00-12:30
14:17:01 <pmurray> I picked up the NDNP use case on the F2F agenda.
14:17:14 <whalb> ... will send out a reminder to list of use cases are still not covered tomorrow
14:17:22 <GordonD> All note: list of assigned rapporteurs has changed significantly since this agenda was prepared!
14:17:40 <whalb> ... there is quite some background reading, it is not necesary to read everything in detail
14:18:15 <marcia> Will the case presented in this order as listed, or in 'related' groups?
14:18:46 <whalb> ... we have to keep in mind that there are only 7 months left for the xg
14:18:48 <Abartov> (remember: some UC owners can't make it to the F2F, but would be very happy to answer questions before and even during the F2F, remotely)
14:19:11 <marcia> +q
14:19:13 <jodi> marcia: IMO, 'related' would be nice, if it's obvious what's related to what.
14:19:19 <whalb> ... we should be able to define what we want to achieve in the remaining 7 months
14:19:27 <jodi> y
14:19:29 <jeff_> zakim, unmute mey
14:19:29 <Zakim> sorry, jeff_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to mey
14:19:34 <jeff_> y
14:19:35 <michaelp> y
14:19:35 <kcoyle> yep
14:19:35 <rsinger> well, i am
14:19:39 <kefo> yes
14:19:39 <whalb> ... we should sort out what is achievable
14:19:39 <bvatant> yes we are
14:19:40 <marma> y
14:20:00 <marcia> +q
14:20:08 <digikim> :)
14:20:26 <whalb> topic: Use cases and case studies
14:20:36 <whalb> tomb: going through actions...
14:21:19 <whalb> kcoyle: regarding action01 - we have done what can be done before the meeting
14:21:25 <whalb> ... action will be continued
14:21:27 <TomB> ack rayd
14:22:05 <whalb> rayd: question regarding friday meeting: if someone not registered for dc meeting will she/he have to pay?
14:22:30 <GordonD> May depend on venue security?
14:22:32 <whalb> tomb: theoretically should be registered, in practice dont know
14:22:36 <TomB> ack marcia
14:22:56 <whalb> marcia: can ask dc committee if it is ok for unregistered participants
14:23:22 <whalb> ... how many minutes should be taken for each case, what order of presentation?
14:23:48 <whalb> tomb: would be good idea to group the use cases
14:24:20 <whalb> ... we dont need to sort that out today but we should start grouping and do it over the coming week
14:24:45 <GordonD> +1 Tom's suggestion
14:25:27 <whalb> kcoyle: we need to look at topic list
14:25:40 <GordonD> Suggest a pragmatic approach and finalise groupings just before meeting
14:25:43 <markva> I understood it was necessary and registered...
14:26:10 <whalb> tomb: regarding action03 i suggest that we carry that action forward as use cases keep coming in
14:28:05 <whalb> ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01]
14:28:09 <whalb> -- continues
14:28:34 <whalb> --continues
14:28:37 <whalb> ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action03]
14:28:40 <whalb> --continues
14:28:50 <whalb> ACTION: Karen to add short names to the topics page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html#action09]
14:28:55 <whalb> --continues
14:29:02 <Abartov> "champions" :)
14:29:11 <GordonD> De facto word for uc presenters is Presenter
14:29:13 <whalb> topic: Other Wiki pages for capturing relevant links and ideas
14:29:33 <rsinger> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Library_data_in_Semantic_Web_formats
14:30:05 <jodi> in general, I prefer using the world-writable wiki
14:30:06 <Zakim> -marma
14:30:09 <rayd> +q
14:30:10 <whalb> ACTION: Participants to volunteer as use case 'shepherds' by signing their names in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh#Use_case_discussion_9:00-10:30_.2B_11:00-12:30 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html#action08]
14:30:13 <whalb> --continues
14:30:24 <jodi> yes, let's make a template :)
14:30:30 <kcoyle> agree
14:30:31 <Abartov> Are you proposing to begin collecting ontologies and vocabularies for LLD?
14:31:08 <rsinger> no, datasets
14:31:51 <Abartov> rsinger: oh, I see. thanks.
14:32:10 <whalb> topic: Upcoming topics - FYI...
14:32:16 <whalb> tomb: nothing to discuss atm
14:32:26 <whalb> topic: Upcoming face-to-face meetings
14:32:32 <whalb> tomb: reminder for meeting
14:32:35 <whalb> topic: aob
14:32:44 <Abartov> +q
14:33:12 <marma> We're having trouble with the phones at KB. Will follow IRC. Sorry.
14:33:16 <whalb> tomb: hotel is in transition from hilton to new management, link has been posted to list
14:33:36 <whalb> ... if anyone is concerned about reservation you can call the hotel to check
14:33:49 <whalb> ... hotel is trying to make transition as smooth as possible
14:33:55 <GordonD> All: looking forward to seeing most of you next week!
14:34:08 <whalb> .. looking forward to meeting participants at conference
14:34:18 <whalb> ... there will be no call next week
14:34:29 <whalb> ... irc will be used for friday afternoon meeting
14:34:44 <whalb> ... remote participants are welcome
14:35:24 <whalb> ... on saturday zakim and irc will also be used and remote participants are invited to join by voice or irc
14:35:31 <Abartov> -q
14:35:46 <whalb> ... on sunday no zakim will be used because of the costs (no sponsor for wifi)
14:35:53 <whalb> ... notes will be taken
14:35:55 <jar_> I recommend someone bring an access point anyhow
14:36:19 <jar_> even if no Internet, you can use if for file transfer, local web servers etc
14:36:26 <jar_> s/if for/it for/
14:36:30 <jodi> bye
14:36:31 <Zakim> -Karen?
14:36:31 <whalb> ... look forward to meeting at f2f and in 2 weeks at next call
14:36:32 <jar_> sorry I  won't be there
14:36:32 <bvatant> bye
14:36:33 <Zakim> -GordonD
14:36:33 <marcia> have a good trip, all
14:36:34 <rsinger> bye!
14:36:34 <Zakim> -kai
14:36:34 <jodi> jodi has left #LLD
14:36:35 <Zakim> -digikim
14:36:37 <AlexanderH> thx bye
14:36:37 <Zakim> -bvatant
14:36:38 <Zakim> -jeff_
14:36:38 <kefo> bye
14:36:40 <Zakim> -pmurray
14:36:40 <kefo> kefo has left #lld
14:36:40 <aseiler> bye
14:36:42 <Zakim> -jodi
14:36:43 <Zakim> -Felix
14:36:43 <Zakim> -whalb
14:36:44 <Zakim> -Ray
14:36:44 <digikim> thanks
14:36:46 <Zakim> -Kai?
14:36:48 <Zakim> -AlexanderH
14:36:50 <Zakim> -rsinger
14:36:52 <Zakim> -jar
14:36:54 <Zakim> -michaelp
14:36:56 <whalb> [adjourned]
14:36:56 <Zakim> -Asaf
14:36:58 <Zakim> -kefo
14:37:04 <Zakim> -aseiler
14:37:19 <TomB> zakim, who is on the call?
14:37:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomB
14:37:19 <whalb> zakim, list attendees
14:37:20 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been TomB, +49.221.400.7.aaaa, jeff_, aseiler, jodi, marma, AlexanderH, Felix, GordonD, +43.316.876.aabb, rsinger, whalb, pmurray,
14:37:22 <Zakim> ... +1.330.672.aacc, Kai?, jar, kai, Ray, Karen?, kefo, Asaf, +33.1.44.92.aadd, bvatant, digikim, michaelp
14:37:32 <whalb> rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:37:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-minutes.html whalb
14:38:09 <markva> sorry I wasnt on the phone, VU phone central not working...
14:38:31 <TomB> rrsagent, please make record public
14:38:38 <TomB> rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:38:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-minutes.html TomB
14:38:54 <TomB> zakim, who is on the call?
14:38:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomB
14:39:04 <Zakim> -TomB
14:39:05 <Zakim> INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
14:39:07 <Zakim> Attendees were TomB, +49.221.400.7.aaaa, jeff_, aseiler, jodi, marma, AlexanderH, Felix, GordonD, +43.316.876.aabb, rsinger, whalb, pmurray, +1.330.672.aacc, Kai?, jar, kai, Ray,
14:39:10 <Zakim> ... Karen?, kefo, Asaf, +33.1.44.92.aadd, bvatant, digikim, michaelp
14:39:44 <TomB> Wolfgang, are you still there?
14:40:34 <whalb> yes
14:41:18 <TomB> Do you know how to generate minutes as text?
14:41:40 <whalb> no, can you help please
14:41:49 <TomB> ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about supplying additional use-cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action04]
14:41:52 <TomB> --drop
14:42:05 <TomB> --done
14:42:29 <TomB> Try http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-minutes.html,text
14:42:43 <whalb> thanks!
14:43:40 <TomB> Save that, edit out "Draft", cut everything below "[end of minutes]", and post to the list.
14:43:46 <TomB> ...then you'll be done!
14:44:00 <whalb> ok, do you know why the attendees are mixed up?
14:44:13 <whalb> at least for me there is my phone no and nick listed in attendees
14:44:34 <TomB> We have had a problem with that generally.
14:45:43 <TomB> I don't know how to fix that unfortunately.
14:46:44 <TomB> hi ed!
14:46:47 <TomB> it was a short meeting
14:46:57 <TomB> Hang on, Wolfgang, are you still there?
14:47:13 <Zakim> INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started
14:47:20 <Zakim> +[LC]
14:47:27 <Zakim> -[LC]
14:47:28 <Zakim> INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has ended
14:47:28 <Zakim> Attendees were [LC]
14:47:42 <TomB> Wolfgang?
14:47:50 <edsu> TomB: hey tom, i guess the call is over now
14:47:55 <whalb> still there, yes
14:47:59 <TomB> Yes, it was very short.
14:48:07 <edsu> sorry i missed it, i did plan on attending
14:48:24 <TomB> If you haven't edited that text yet...
14:48:49 <whalb> yes...
14:49:12 <whalb> tomb?
14:49:18 <TomB> ...it would be more correct to save the HTML of the minutes, edit those, save the HTML as text, and post that.
14:49:53 <whalb> ok, who should i send that edited html to because i cant upload it?
14:49:58 <TomB> ...With just one or two changes, you could edit http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-minutes.html,text directly, but if there are more changes...
14:50:03 <TomB> ...send it to Antoine.
14:50:20 <TomB> ok?
14:50:23 <whalb> ok, will do that
14:50:28 <TomB> great - thanks!
14:50:46 <TomB> I'll complete the wrapping up...
14:51:36 <TomB> zakim, bye
14:51:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #lld
14:51:39 <TomB> rrsagent, bye
14:51:39 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-actions.rdf :
14:51:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01] [1]
14:51:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-irc#T14-28-05
14:51:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action03] [2]
14:51:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-irc#T14-28-37
14:51:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Karen to add short names to the topics page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html#action09] [3]
14:51:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-irc#T14-28-50
14:51:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Participants to volunteer as use case 'shepherds' by signing their names in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh#Use_case_discussion_9:00-10:30_.2B_11:00-12:30 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html#action08] [4]
14:51:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-irc#T14-30-10
14:51:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about supplying additional use-cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action04] [5]
14:51:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/14-lld-irc#T14-41-49