12:52:35 RRSAgent has joined #awwsw 12:52:35 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-awwsw-irc 12:54:34 dbooth has joined #awwsw 12:55:50 invite zakim 13:00:19 TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM has now started 13:00:26 +DBooth 13:00:44 zakim, who is here? 13:00:44 On the phone I see DBooth 13:00:45 On IRC I see dbooth, RRSAgent, Zakim, jar_, hhalpin, mhausenblas, trackbot 13:01:47 +jar 13:04:30 michael, are you joining the teleconference? 13:06:45 yup, sorry 13:07:22 +mhausenblas 13:08:34 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-awwsw/2010Jul/0004.html 13:19:04 jar: What is the relation between a resource (used as the subject of an RDF statement) that is denoted by URI, and some HTTP exchanges? 13:19:24 just for the record, as of http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/turtle/ @base is in fact allowed, but http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/awwsw/webarch.ttl still has some bugs 13:19:28 I figured one 13:19:38 dbooth: Two realms of answers to that question: 1. where you're talking about a web resource. 2. other resources. 13:19:50 rdfs:seeAlso :http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2010/06/http-semantics.pdf . should be rdfs:seeAlso . 13:19:53 jar: I'm talking about the web resource case -- when you get a 200 response. 13:20:56 dbooth: we're talking web architecture, and any architecture is a fabrication or a fiction, in a sense. 13:21:02 jar: yes, it's an ideal. 13:22:51 dbooth: That also means that various architecture possible. So then we need to decide which architecture to choose, i.e., which is preferable. 13:24:03 jar: we have an arch -- the arch embraced by the TAG -- the AWWW plus TAG findings and resolutions endorsed by the TAG. 13:24:58 dbooth: some parts of this arch are clearer than other parts. 13:25:53 jar: If you start with the central dogma of URI, resource, representation . . . 13:26:02 dbooth: That only applies to web resources though 13:26:37 jar: But that's a consequence of the arch, not an axiom. The distinction between web resources and others is not central. 13:26:45 dbooth: I agree, it isn't central. 13:27:23 michael: "web resource" == "awww:InformationResource"? 13:27:49 dbooth: Yes, pretty much but the definition in the AWWSW is flawed. 13:29:50 jar: I don't want to try to define it. I first want to account for 200 responses. Then if we have a way to talk about them, then the other stuff should follow. 13:31:39 http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-sparql11-http-rdf-update-20100601/#graph-identification 13:31:45 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2010Aug/0004.html 13:38:17 dbooth: Michael, you were suggesting this as other interesting reading? 13:38:30 michael: Yes, see how it fits in or contradicts. 13:38:53 ... It may have impact beyond SPARQL 1.1. 13:39:34 dbooth: Back to what we're doing here . . . 13:39:55 jar: I'm still struggling with what form our analysis should take and how to deal with time. 13:41:24 Michael: we could do a per-case study 13:41:41 1. 303 Linked Data RDF/XML 13:41:50 2. SPARQL endpoint 13:41:58 3. embedded RDFa 13:42:11 4. fragid in Location: 13:43:04 dbooth: So when you're doing a formalism the granularity is driven by the ways you wish to use your formalism afterward. Time adds complexity that is not needed for many simple uses. 13:44:33 dbooth: If we write n3 rules, who would use them, for what? 13:45:25 e.g. the representation in a GET/200 response is a rep of the resource ... 13:45:33 ... In other words: what questions do we want this formalism to answer? 13:46:49 michael: in RDFa there are two representations returned by one resource. 13:46:59 For example: Are Tim's suggestions re SPARQL graphs consistent with our analysis of SPARQL? 13:48:32 jar: Using the arch to show contraditions would be useful. 13:51:48 dbooth: for #1, what are the possible contradictions? 13:52:19 GET U/200 => RDF that says U is a person. 13:52:51 GET U/200 => RDF that says U is not an information resource. 13:54:25 contradiction between what it says, and the architecture. 13:54:41 dbooth: that would be a contradiction if persons are disjoint from informatino resources. 13:55:48 Michael: would it be a starting point to use http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments.html#AlgPicture and then refine the picture? 13:57:44 yes. 14:01:57 -mhausenblas 14:01:58 -DBooth 14:02:02 -jar 14:02:03 TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM has ended 14:02:05 Attendees were DBooth, jar, mhausenblas 14:02:42 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:02:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-awwsw-minutes.html mhausenblas 14:02:49 meeting: AWWSW 14:03:15 Chair: jar 14:03:17 chair: jar 14:03:29 Present: Jonathan Rees, David Booth, Michael Hausenblas 14:03:29 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:03:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:03:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/12-awwsw-minutes.html dbooth 14:05:20 :) 15:12:19 Zakim has left #awwsw 16:00:03 hhalpin has joined #awwsw