IRC log of awwsw on 2010-10-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:52:35 [RRSAgent]
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12:52:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:54:34 [dbooth]
dbooth has joined #awwsw
12:55:50 [dbooth]
invite zakim
13:00:19 [Zakim]
TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM has now started
13:00:26 [Zakim]
13:00:44 [dbooth]
zakim, who is here?
13:00:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DBooth
13:00:45 [Zakim]
On IRC I see dbooth, RRSAgent, Zakim, jar_, hhalpin, mhausenblas, trackbot
13:01:47 [Zakim]
13:04:30 [dbooth]
michael, are you joining the teleconference?
13:06:45 [mhausenblas]
yup, sorry
13:07:22 [Zakim]
13:08:34 [jar_]
13:19:04 [dbooth]
jar: What is the relation between a resource (used as the subject of an RDF statement) that is denoted by URI, and some HTTP exchanges?
13:19:24 [mhausenblas]
just for the record, as of @base is in fact allowed, but still has some bugs
13:19:28 [mhausenblas]
I figured one
13:19:38 [dbooth]
dbooth: Two realms of answers to that question: 1. where you're talking about a web resource. 2. other resources.
13:19:50 [mhausenblas]
rdfs:seeAlso :"> . should be rdfs:seeAlso <> .
13:19:53 [dbooth]
jar: I'm talking about the web resource case -- when you get a 200 response.
13:20:56 [dbooth]
dbooth: we're talking web architecture, and any architecture is a fabrication or a fiction, in a sense.
13:21:02 [dbooth]
jar: yes, it's an ideal.
13:22:51 [dbooth]
dbooth: That also means that various architecture possible. So then we need to decide which architecture to choose, i.e., which is preferable.
13:24:03 [dbooth]
jar: we have an arch -- the arch embraced by the TAG -- the AWWW plus TAG findings and resolutions endorsed by the TAG.
13:24:58 [dbooth]
dbooth: some parts of this arch are clearer than other parts.
13:25:53 [dbooth]
jar: If you start with the central dogma of URI, resource, representation . . .
13:26:02 [dbooth]
dbooth: That only applies to web resources though
13:26:37 [dbooth]
jar: But that's a consequence of the arch, not an axiom. The distinction between web resources and others is not central.
13:26:45 [dbooth]
dbooth: I agree, it isn't central.
13:27:23 [dbooth]
michael: "web resource" == "awww:InformationResource"?
13:27:49 [dbooth]
dbooth: Yes, pretty much but the definition in the AWWSW is flawed.
13:29:50 [dbooth]
jar: I don't want to try to define it. I first want to account for 200 responses. Then if we have a way to talk about them, then the other stuff should follow.
13:31:39 [mhausenblas]
13:31:45 [mhausenblas]
13:38:17 [dbooth]
dbooth: Michael, you were suggesting this as other interesting reading?
13:38:30 [dbooth]
michael: Yes, see how it fits in or contradicts.
13:38:53 [dbooth]
... It may have impact beyond SPARQL 1.1.
13:39:34 [dbooth]
dbooth: Back to what we're doing here . . .
13:39:55 [dbooth]
jar: I'm still struggling with what form our analysis should take and how to deal with time.
13:41:24 [mhausenblas]
Michael: we could do a per-case study
13:41:41 [mhausenblas]
1. 303 Linked Data RDF/XML
13:41:50 [mhausenblas]
2. SPARQL endpoint
13:41:58 [mhausenblas]
3. embedded RDFa
13:42:11 [jar_]
4. fragid in Location:
13:43:04 [dbooth]
dbooth: So when you're doing a formalism the granularity is driven by the ways you wish to use your formalism afterward. Time adds complexity that is not needed for many simple uses.
13:44:33 [dbooth]
dbooth: If we write n3 rules, who would use them, for what?
13:45:25 [jar_]
e.g. the representation in a GET/200 response is a rep of the resource ...
13:45:33 [dbooth]
... In other words: what questions do we want this formalism to answer?
13:46:49 [dbooth]
michael: in RDFa there are two representations returned by one resource.
13:46:59 [jar_]
For example: Are Tim's suggestions re SPARQL graphs consistent with our analysis of SPARQL?
13:48:32 [dbooth]
jar: Using the arch to show contraditions would be useful.
13:51:48 [dbooth]
dbooth: for #1, what are the possible contradictions?
13:52:19 [jar_]
GET U/200 => RDF that says U is a person.
13:52:51 [jar_]
GET U/200 => RDF that says U is not an information resource.
13:54:25 [jar_]
contradiction between what it says, and the architecture.
13:54:41 [dbooth]
dbooth: that would be a contradiction if persons are disjoint from informatino resources.
13:55:48 [mhausenblas]
Michael: would it be a starting point to use and then refine the picture?
13:57:44 [jar_]
14:01:57 [Zakim]
14:01:58 [Zakim]
14:02:02 [Zakim]
14:02:03 [Zakim]
TAG_(AWWSW)9:00AM has ended
14:02:05 [Zakim]
Attendees were DBooth, jar, mhausenblas
14:02:42 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:02:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate mhausenblas
14:02:49 [dbooth]
meeting: AWWSW
14:03:15 [mhausenblas]
Chair: jar
14:03:17 [dbooth]
chair: jar
14:03:29 [dbooth]
Present: Jonathan Rees, David Booth, Michael Hausenblas
14:03:29 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:03:48 [dbooth]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:03:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate dbooth
14:05:20 [dbooth]
15:12:19 [Zakim]
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