14:58:42 RRSAgent has joined #prov-xg 14:58:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-prov-xg-irc 14:58:44 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:58:44 Zakim has joined #prov-xg 14:58:46 Zakim, this will be 98765 14:58:46 ok, trackbot; I see INC_PROVXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 14:58:47 Meeting: Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference 14:58:47 Date: 08 October 2010 14:59:56 Luc has joined #prov-xg 15:00:03 smiles has joined #prov-xg 15:00:07 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-prov/2010Oct/0000.html 15:00:15 chair: Yolanda Gil 15:00:26 Scribe: paul groth 15:00:32 ScribeNick: pgroth 15:00:39 rrsagent, make logs public 15:00:54 YolandaGil has joined #prov-xg 15:01:04 Hi Paul, I made it :) 15:01:08 Thanks 15:01:45 jcheney has joined #prov-xg 15:02:22 jun has joined #prov-xg 15:02:27 yolanda, everything is started 15:03:14 DGarijo has joined #prov-xg 15:03:26 having trouble with phone 15:04:37 thanks Paul! 15:05:58 i hear Jun well 15:06:02 I can hear Jun 15:06:06 yeah I can 15:06:25 ok, sorry, i need to call back then 15:09:20 Jun: presenting data.gov.uk provenance requirements 15:09:30 http://www.slideshare.net/junzhao/2010-10-provxgdatagovuk 15:09:31 http://www.slideshare.net/junzhao/2010-10-provxgdatagovuk 15:09:57 See above slides for presentation 15:10:24 jun: slide 4: xslt process for converting data 15:10:43 jun: this is a complex activity, lots of different types of files 15:10:53 jun: need to capture the details about what happened 15:11:22 jun: common thing they don't know where to put the details of process 15:12:06 jun: slide 5- another typical practice of creating linked data 15:12:24 jun: where to attach provenance information 15:13:13 jun: don't currently have guidance on where to attache provenance information 15:13:28 jun: slide 6 - complex pipeline similar to a workflow environemtn 15:13:59 jun: slide 7 - not straightforward to model all the provenance in OPM 15:15:25 jun: slide 8 - need to track the provenance of non-digital objects 15:15:52 jun: slide 8 - nice feature of OPM is that it represents not only data but also the physical world 15:16:13 jun: slide 9: challenges of the data.gov.uk use case 15:17:22 jun: slide 10: summarize the gaps 15:17:57 jun: need a vocabulary, guidance, tool support, extensions 15:20:12 jun: slide 11 - opmv is simpler than opm 15:20:54 jun: slide 12 - design rational - straightforward implementation, lightweight, reuse existing SW technologies 15:22:33 jun: there are potential problems with named graphs... but data.gov.uk uses Named Graphs a lot 15:22:45 jun: need to be aware of this when using opmv 15:24:37 jun: only core opm terms are definied in the core vocabulary, opmv includes 4 extensions to opmv 15:28:22 jun: presenting examples of usage of opmv, from slide 15 to 18 15:29:39 jun: discuss the difference between dublic core provenance and opmv provenance, for some things opmv is more verbose 15:32:09 jun: slide 17, describing the changes in an organization, organization ontology uses opmv 15:34:44 jun: slide 19 - opmv is lightweight but has less semantics than the opm owl serialization 15:34:53 jun: opmv is basically a vocabulary 15:35:40 jun: plans for opmv and decentralized development 15:36:02 jun: extremely important to have guidance on how to publish provenance 15:36:13 jun: currently writing this guidnace 15:37:29 jun: data.gov.uk team like the vocabulary because it's easy to understand 15:38:11 jun: data.gov.uk has not yet used provenance in production, still need tooling support 15:38:34 jun: data.gov.uk - don't know where provenance info will be used 15:39:50 q? 15:39:52 q+ 15:40:00 +q 15:40:13 q+ 15:41:04 q- 15:42:58 discussion about the need for annotations 15:43:27 in opmv you can add annotations to nodes, not the edges 15:44:11 yolandagil: asks about accessing provenance information 15:44:26 jun: haven't reached an agreement in data.gov.uk 15:45:24 jun: two options - 1) named graphs with properties 2) extend http header to access provenance 15:45:33 jun: data.gov.uk hasn't gone into technical details 15:45:47 i have been kicked out again, dialing in 15:46:07 yolandagil: what kind of tools do they need 15:46:32 jun: don't mind of visualization; but need tools for generation; 15:46:51 back in 15:47:02 yolanda: why don't they use a workflow system for that? 15:47:28 jun: they use scripts, or custom software 15:48:12 ack YolandaGil 15:49:09 luc: opm inferences now defined in owl 15:49:24 luc: opm ontology (opmo) is an extension of opm vocabulary (opmv) 15:49:32 luc: can convert opmo to opmv 15:49:56 jun: very excited about the alignment with opmo and opmv 15:50:08 jun: e.g. data.gov.uk are 15:54:40 discussion about the relation between the opmo and opmv 15:54:47 +q 15:55:02 ack Luc 15:55:06 ack pgroth 15:56:32 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Final_Report_Draft 16:02:01 kicked out again 16:02:28 yolanda: going over the final report draft 16:03:12 yolanda: going around the call to get thoughts on the final repoort 16:03:44 yolanda: what should be the recommendation is it something else than creating a working group 16:04:00 dgarijo: working on bibbase collection and agrees with report 16:04:29 jcheney: still catching up 16:05:10 jcheney: revising email with his thoughts 16:05:40 jcheney: working group sounds resonable but still catching up 16:06:24 jun: wants to know discussion on web architecture to have more concrete recommendations 16:06:32 jun: supports the rec for a working group 16:08:13 luc: likes the report structure, very supportative of a rec for working group 16:10:01 pgroth: mentions social web incubator group report, yes for rec for working group 16:10:44 simon: likes structure. should give intuition about the use case we covered, and yes for a well defined for working group 16:11:54 rrsagen, set log public 16:11:58 Paul: can you post the minutes? got to go to the airport! 16:12:01 rrsagent, set log public 16:12:03 yes 16:12:07 THANK YOU!!! 16:12:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:12:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-prov-xg-minutes.html pgroth 16:12:20 trackbot, end telecon 16:12:20 Zakim, list attendees 16:12:20 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 16:12:21 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:12:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-prov-xg-minutes.html trackbot 16:12:22 RRSAgent, bye 16:12:22 I see no action items