13:52:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcg
13:52:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-irc
13:52:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
13:52:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcg
13:52:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
13:52:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_CG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
13:52:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
13:52:21 <trackbot> Date: 08 October 2010
13:58:07 <glazou> Zakim, code ?
13:58:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 4824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), glazou
13:58:25 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:26 <darobin> darobin has joined #hcg
13:58:33 <Zakim> + +33.9.50.89.aaaa
13:58:41 <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is me
13:58:41 <Zakim> +glazou; got it
13:58:56 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
13:59:02 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #hcg
13:59:04 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #hcg
13:59:33 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
13:59:37 <ChrisL> trackbot, start telcon
13:59:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
13:59:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HTML_CG
13:59:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see HTML_CG()10:00AM already started
13:59:42 <trackbot> Meeting: Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
13:59:42 <trackbot> Date: 08 October 2010
13:59:53 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make logs public
14:00:34 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #hcg
14:00:44 <Zakim> +ChrisL
14:00:50 <Zakim> +??P12
14:01:05 <darobin> Zakim, ??P12 is me
14:01:05 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:01:19 <Zakim> +Shepazu
14:01:20 <Steven-mobile> zakim, dial steven-mobile
14:01:20 <Zakim> ok, Steven-mobile; the call is being made
14:01:22 <Zakim> +Steven
14:01:25 <ChrisL> volunteer for scribe?
14:01:40 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
14:01:40 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
14:01:41 <Steven-mobile> Zakim, mute me
14:01:41 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
14:01:43 <Zakim> sorry, Steven-mobile, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:02:00 <kaz> zakim, who is noisy?
14:02:12 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
14:02:36 <MichaelC> zakim, code?
14:02:36 <Zakim> the conference code is 4824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), MichaelC
14:02:55 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
14:03:01 <glazou> salut darobin 
14:03:19 <Zakim> +Janina
14:03:29 <darobin> hi glazou!
14:03:38 <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
14:03:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, Gregory_Rosmaita, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, darobin, Shepazu, Steven (muted), Kazuyuki, Michael_Cooper, Janina
14:03:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see MichaelC, ChrisL, ddahl, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, Steven-mobile, glazou, oedipus, plinss, shepazu, trackbot, ed_work
14:03:47 <darobin> Zakim, pick scrive
14:03:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick scrive', darobin
14:03:51 <darobin> Zakim, pick scribe
14:03:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick scribe', darobin
14:03:56 <darobin> Zakim, pick victim
14:03:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick victim', darobin
14:03:58 <oedipus> zakim, choose victim
14:03:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'choose victim', oedipus
14:03:59 <darobin> bah
14:04:04 <ChrisL> zakim, pick a victim
14:04:04 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kazuyuki
14:04:05 <glazou> oedipus: go ahead we'll say our names
14:04:13 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
14:04:19 <glazou> ScribeNick oedipus 
14:04:21 <oedipus> scribenick: oedipus
14:04:22 <ChrisL> thanks Gregory
14:04:44 <oedipus> TOPIC: Quick Action Item Review
14:04:49 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #hcg
14:04:50 <oedipus> CL: 2 open
14:05:24 <ChrisL> action-54?
14:05:24 <trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Michael Cooper to install an HTML4+ARIA DTD -- due 2010-09-10 -- OPEN
14:05:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/54
14:05:34 <Zakim> + +1.512.567.aabb
14:05:38 <oedipus> MC: recall that had to do with ARIA in w3c validator - more of political thing than technical thing - have action items in this and PF group but can't promise timeline noe
14:05:45 <ChrisL> action-56?
14:05:45 <trackbot> ACTION-56 -- Michael Cooper to find ways to introduce the W3C editor community to use of ARIA - whitepaper, lightning talk, BOF at TPAC, etc. -- due 2010-09-10 -- OPEN
14:05:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/56
14:05:46 <jcraig> Zakim, aabb is jcraig
14:05:46 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
14:05:55 <oedipus> CL: is there a lightning talk about this for TPAC?
14:06:03 <oedipus> MC: hadn't made specific plans, but is opportunity
14:06:16 <ChrisL> Topic: User Interface Independence for Accessible Rich Internet Applications
14:06:43 <kaz> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/att-0106/UserInterfaceIndependence.html
14:06:52 <oedipus> CL: [roll call]
14:07:12 <Zakim> +Rich
14:08:18 <plh> plh has joined #hcg
14:08:19 <Zakim> +Bert
14:08:33 <Zakim> +Plh
14:08:39 <Bert> Bert has joined #hcg
14:08:51 <plh> agenda?
14:09:11 <ChrisL> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/att-0106/UserInterfaceIndependence.html
14:09:28 <oedipus> JS (Janina Sajka): will ask JCraig to present, but wanted to thank HCG for opening discussion; document looks important to WAI/PF
14:09:36 <shepazu> [for those who aren't subscribed to the HCG list: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010OctDec/0013.html]
14:10:10 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #hcg
14:10:12 <oedipus> JC (James Craig): ARIA does good job of declaring things from webapp that can get to AT; declarative markup works well getting info out to AT
14:10:12 <shepazu> [UI Independence for ARIA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/att-0106/UserInterfaceIndependence.html]
14:10:27 <oedipus> JC: AT = Assistive Technology such as screen-reader, on-screen keyboard, etc.
14:10:36 <oedipus> JC: no good way to get events back into app
14:10:59 <oedipus> JC: ARIA has been specified in tandem with set of de facto keypresses developed by DHTML Style Guide
14:11:21 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka
14:11:26 <Zakim> -Janina
14:11:32 <oedipus> JS: think is ok stopgap measure to define keyboard associations, but not ideal for i18n, a11y, localization, different hardware, etc
14:11:59 <janina> janina has joined #hcg
14:12:12 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:12:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, Gregory_Rosmaita, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, darobin (muted), Shepazu, Steven (muted), Kazuyuki, Michael_Cooper, jcraig, Rich, Bert, Plh, Janina_Sajka
14:12:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, ddahl, Bert, plh, jcraig, MichaelC, ChrisL, darobin, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, glazou, oedipus, plinss, shepazu, trackbot, ed_work
14:12:19 <oedipus> JC: came up with proposal to allow AT of whatever kind to send events into the rendering engine so can be passed along to webapp so that can be notified - controlled by remote (AT) rather tahn primary interface
14:13:03 <oedipus> JC: request events - instead of touch of PageUp etc. if gesture based interface, UA reqs a scroll event -- if capture scroll event browser and AT can communicate
14:13:15 <oedipus> s/JS: think is ok/JC: think is ok/
14:13:45 <oedipus> DS: it is not a standalone proposal - requests other specs include things -- different from ARIA -- aimed at number of specifications
14:14:07 <oedipus> JC: good point; new DOM events - additions to client side javascript for set properties
14:14:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
14:14:36 <oedipus> CL: introduce specific features?
14:14:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html kaz
14:15:06 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2010JulSep/att-0106/UserInterfaceIndependence.html
14:15:42 <oedipus> JC: part of proposal is premise why is needed; DHTML Style guide keypresses can be very complex
14:16:14 <oedipus> JC: example: control+shift+m opens popup during drag and drop - unlikely that authors going to adhere to keyboard presses defined by DHTML style group
14:16:18 <kaz> Present:  glazou, Gregory_Rosmaita, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, darobin (muted), Shepazu, Steven (muted), Kazuyuki, Michael_Cooper, jcraig, Rich, Bert, Plh, Janina_Sajka
14:16:26 <oedipus> JC: user would have to learn new key commands to use apps with AT
14:16:34 <kaz> Chair: Chris
14:16:40 <oedipus> JC: localization problems address as is operating system agnosticism
14:16:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html kaz
14:16:50 <oedipus> JC: new devices fully touch screen
14:17:31 <oedipus> JC: been telling authors to use simple non-character keys and not to worry about more complex commands which don't make sense for a large part of target audience
14:17:40 <oedipus> DS: developed by DHTML Style Guide WG?
14:17:57 <oedipus> JC: ad hoc group that used wai-xtech for communication but not formal WAI group
14:18:24 <ChrisL> q+
14:19:02 <oedipus> JC: UIRequestEvents and types of events pertaining to request - if user presses DEL then first sent would be delete req unless UA recognized and cancelled; no notification from UA; if does not recognize, then UA can have fallback method for accessing delete key
14:19:33 <oedipus> JC: child of UIRequestEvent says want UA on my behalft to change this attribute with this attribute -- replacement for DOMAttrModified
14:19:47 <oedipus> CL: example of use outside of a11y, if menu item that fires events be useful?
14:20:00 <oedipus> JC: menu items not necessary for most of theses
14:20:18 <oedipus> CL: but menu could be used 
14:20:28 <oedipus> CL: trying to think of use cases outside of a11y
14:20:36 <oedipus> JC: not specific at all to a11y (accessibility)
14:20:47 <oedipus> JC: [reads from proposal]
14:21:03 <ChrisL> ack ChrisL
14:21:56 <oedipus> JC: if web app doesn't recognize undo request event, UA can use fallback event, such as sending KeyPress event
14:22:00 <ChrisL> ack st
14:22:02 <shepazu> q+
14:22:39 <oedipus> SP (Steven Pemberton): this is about DI, but goes hand-in-hand with a11y, both apply, right?
14:22:42 <oedipus> JC: yes
14:22:49 <ChrisL> ack she
14:23:10 <oedipus> JC: DI part of it; called UIInterface because wanted it across the board not just for a11y
14:23:54 <oedipus> RS: would save devs a lot of time if didn't have to worry about gestures as well as keyboard input -- want to know there is request to open menu, and menu will open -- works cross-browser and app
14:24:20 <oedipus> JC: DOMActivate in as placeholder for Rich
14:24:29 <oedipus> JC: for most cases, open would be default action of a button
14:24:42 <oedipus> RS: tree item have to hit right arrow key to open easier to say "open"
14:25:06 <oedipus> JC: expand/collapse to expose lower level tree on windows and mac - different keypresses on each
14:25:19 <oedipus> DS: [reads from proposal]
14:25:46 <oedipus> JC: might want to use DOMAttrChangeRequest request for styling from DOM
14:25:59 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #hcg
14:26:26 <oedipus> DS: like proposal's UI request thing -- seems would be useful in context of DOM3 events to redo/undo these things often tied closely to keypresses
14:26:55 <oedipus> DS: in DOM3 events, there is a list of keys - each key value can be character value (a,1,@ - any printing char) unicode value kbd can produce
14:27:05 <oedipus> JC: second class of keys: ENTER, TAB, CONTROL
14:27:40 <jcraig> s/JC:/DS:/
14:27:56 <oedipus> DS: instead of char and key codes on event to pass along either char value as anchor string (not numeric code) or pass along a string such as ENTER or TAB or CONTROL and that string tells you what the key is that has been pressed
14:28:36 <oedipus> DS: one of those is undo - for keycode and charcode in past, if press control+Z don't get undo, but got control key then event for z key
14:29:11 <kaz> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/#key-values DOM3 Events "6.2.7 Key Values Set"
14:29:14 <oedipus> DS: if press shift+a you don't get A you get shift + a to create value A (the character to which kbd is mapped plus all modifiers)
14:29:41 <oedipus> DS: big win for authors - don't have to guess due to series of keypresses x might be the outcome
14:30:21 <oedipus> DS: undo is key balue, but should be mapped to what OS uses as default undo (command+Z or control-Z) -- at end should throw undo command
14:31:03 <oedipus> DS: question of support -- if shake iphone to undo won't be picked up by key event, so i like the idea of abstraction and adding this particular interface to DOM3 Events
14:31:27 <oedipus> DS: can then say "in addition to throwing kbd event with undo keyvalue, this should have default action of throwing an undo or redo event
14:31:35 <ChrisL> q?
14:31:46 <oedipus> DS: for devices without kbds very useful for users, authors, devs
14:32:11 <oedipus> DS: if can get UAs -- specifically IE9 -- to say "yes" we will implement this -- willing to put that part in DOM3 Events
14:32:31 <ChrisL> doug - which part specifically do you propose to put in DOM3 events?
14:32:43 <oedipus> DS: change event issue different -- simply another iteration on mutation events - problem is when have event mechansism there is a lot of overhead - feedback from all UA vendors
14:33:09 <ddahl> q+ to ask about how this would work with speech recognition-based AT
14:33:47 <oedipus> JC: put note in proposal noting that there are certain events such as TouchStart and TouchEnd could be ShakeStart and ShakeEnd -- UAs need give precedence to continuous input events (such as touch or shake)
14:34:26 <oedipus> JC: if had web app that looked for shake event -- need to know when shake starts and ends - UA should ShakeStart first
14:34:50 <oedipus> JC: diff order than discrete keypress events -- undo sent first if not canceled keypress sent without delay on UI side
14:35:14 <ChrisL> ack dd
14:35:14 <Zakim> ddahl, you wanted to ask about how this would work with speech recognition-based AT
14:35:15 <oedipus> JC: noticed that particular area is lacking, but continuous input events will take precedence over UI events
14:36:43 <oedipus> DD: how work with speech recognition?  think that if user wants to undo, AT responsible for turning spoken request into undo event which would then be fed to UA -- if that is correct, this will be great for speech recog AT - undo would mean undo or "i din't meanthat" for undo; can't code for UA, so would help
14:37:14 <oedipus> JC: intention on UA side -- OS side up to interpretation - may be that when UA understands listening for undo, broadcast through platform's a11y API
14:37:20 <oedipus> a11y = accessibility
14:37:45 <oedipus> JC: if speech recog engine tied in closely enough with UA, UA should be able to request an undo
14:37:53 <oedipus> q?
14:38:34 <oedipus> DS: you expect undo event to fire before the event propagation or keypress event
14:38:47 <oedipus> JC: gives web app ability to receive and cancel before UA goes to fallback
14:38:53 <oedipus> DS: is that stated in proposal?
14:39:02 <oedipus> JC: believe it does - is in prose, not in interface methods
14:40:00 <oedipus> JC: reason is depending on interface hitting keypress might be a fallback itself -- if web app looking for certain keypress, and UIRequestEvent captured, and author calls for default on event UA doesn't have to use fallback evetns
14:40:50 <oedipus> DS: exclusively within web app -- if i was doing something in text editor in web app, undo may act differently when used in textarea but not synced to web app if undo in location bar
14:41:35 <janina> q+ to ask how best to move forward--don't want to get to the end of the hour without discussing that
14:41:36 <oedipus> JC: undo event will be registered if haven't typed anything yet, if hit undo control in location bar, UA would send to web app, if sees on toolbar, knows to send undo request to go back to UA, which then does a chrome undo event
14:42:13 <oedipus> DS: if you want to edit text and said undo, natively, would go back last char because i'm typing, but if i said undo last word, could cancel undo so browser doesn't get it and i as user go it
14:42:23 <oedipus> DS: think browsers going to let you do that?
14:42:29 <oedipus> CL: depends on who grabs event first
14:43:09 <oedipus> JC: would be browser passing event to rendering engine, rendering engine replies to browser which finishes it off -- browser always has first right of refusal
14:43:20 <oedipus> JC: on OS side, browser app going to get key event from OS
14:43:44 <oedipus> JC: if knows that user interacting with web content at that time, and UA has implemented these events, should offer undo thorugh the UIRequestEvent
14:43:57 <oedipus> DS: apologize for going into such detail
14:44:10 <oedipus> JC: don't think would override UA behavior when inappropriate
14:44:30 <glazou> q+
14:44:31 <oedipus> DS: think you should join dom3 events telecon or have a joint telecon to sort out this level of detail
14:44:42 <oedipus> DS: DOM3 events is only 1 target of proposal
14:44:46 <ChrisL> ack jan
14:44:46 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask how best to move forward--don't want to get to the end of the hour without discussing that
14:45:44 <oedipus> JS: getting near 15 minutes left - want to discuss where and how to move forward in W3C outside of WAI -- eager for DOM3 to move forward, but don't  want proposal to take many years either because benefit will be immediate
14:45:50 <oedipus> JS: where and how to continue work on this?
14:45:59 <shepazu> q+
14:46:13 <oedipus> CL: review spec and then have specific conversations on sections
14:46:33 <ChrisL> ack gla
14:46:33 <oedipus> JC: HTML A11y TF would be perfect place for section 4 of proposal
14:47:08 <oedipus> Glazou: events model just discussed: 3 layers: 1 at OS level catching key; second at chrome level; third level is web app itself
14:47:26 <oedipus> JC: after event would bubble up same change
14:47:41 <oedipus> Glazou: could capture before hist web app - is doable
14:48:29 <oedipus> JC: sections of spec - scroll request, way to indicate div role="slider" could pre-set to max or minimum
14:49:11 <oedipus> JC: 1 proposal considering is in mainstream safari, can tap title bar on iPhone which sends scrollevent even though don't want to override touch event
14:49:33 <oedipus> JC: screen reader intercepts all  such events; need iPhone to pass to web app so can be understood
14:49:52 <oedipus> DS: high level overview of interfaces and where applicable
14:50:19 <oedipus> DS: DOMAttrChangeRequest - DOM3 events is "natural" place, but need call to discuss more
14:50:49 <oedipus> JC: mutation events have had performance events think this proposal will take care of that
14:50:59 <oedipus> JC: section 2 for mainstream UA and AT
14:51:35 <oedipus> JC: third section more specific to AT -- focus and blur events that fire via screen reader cursors (screen readers use virtual cursors)
14:51:51 <oedipus> JC: final section: AT technology notification - separate from DOM 3
14:53:13 <oedipus> JC: Window.Navigator Window.Navigator.Accessibility.SpecificAT = window.Navigator.Accessibility.Speech , dot version, identify engine being used; 
14:53:48 <oedipus> JC: magnifier focus could tell mag here are coordinates so would allow use of Bespin type apps (canvas-only web app)
14:54:09 <oedipus> JC: all UA sees is 1 canvas tag, this would allow for OS level screen mag to follow along
14:54:27 <oedipus> DS: which parts would you like to see in DOM3 Events
14:54:34 <oedipus> JC: section 2 and section 3
14:55:19 <oedipus> CL: 2 candidates for DOM3 Events - hadn't expected to add anything to it - would it have a substantial impact on schedule?
14:55:37 <oedipus> DS: currently in LC -- anticipated first LC because of lenghth of development
14:56:07 <oedipus> DS: first last call to finish - will be second last call; chief concern: don't want to create spec that is out of step with what authors can expect to find in browsers
14:56:13 <glazou> plh: bwahaha
14:56:34 <oedipus> DS: IE9 implemented lion's share of spec - real value having spec reflecting what is happening in IE9 and other UA releases
14:56:45 <oedipus> DS: don't want to throw in stuff that won't make it into IE9
14:57:03 <oedipus> DS: will need to telecon with MS IE devs to find out how much can implement in short time they have
14:57:10 <richardschwerdtfe> q+
14:57:20 <ChrisL> ack she
14:57:33 <oedipus> DS: alternative: if can't get into DOM3 Events, which is an extendable framework, so can add events using DOM3 events framework
14:58:03 <ChrisL> ack ric
14:58:03 <oedipus> DS: could be stand-alone a11y spec with these events in here, but also think easy wins for DOM3 Events such as undo, redo
14:58:15 <oedipus> RS: 1 events not limited to a11y
14:58:23 <oedipus> DS: not what i said - i meant in a diff spec
14:58:38 <oedipus> JC: section 3 could go into aria spec that uses DOM3 model
14:58:43 <oedipus> RS: IE train has left
14:58:47 <oedipus> DS: not true
14:59:01 <oedipus> RS: that's what IE team tells me - don't think will implement in next 2 or 3 weeks
14:59:34 <oedipus> RS: real issue is mobile devices - whatever we do, don't want it to take another 3 or 4 years for it to become a spec - IE is 1 implementation, and need 2 for CR 
14:59:48 <oedipus> DS: and i don't want to add another 10 years to DOM3
15:00:07 <oedipus> RS: much will be for mainstream mobile apps -- touch, shake, voice-recog -- all need to control apps
15:00:56 <oedipus> DS: possibility of getting some into DOM3 Events - proposal comes fairly late, so there is value in considering idea that some events may belong in another spec
15:02:10 <oedipus> JC: section 3 specific to a11y; UIRequest events is what we want in DOM3 now; undo/redo depends on it; DOMAttrChangeRequest another would like in DOM3
15:03:00 <oedipus> JC: browser doesn't have to pay attention to mutations, all it has to do is wait for an AT 
15:03:19 <oedipus> DS: one suggestoin: another section 4 around navigator stuff -- is that aimed at HTML5?
15:03:37 <oedipus> JC: not sure where that should move, but HTML5 the best location for it or ARIA 2.0
15:03:47 <oedipus> DS: requested HTML WG look at this?
15:04:01 <oedipus> JC: extensively cross-posted proposal
15:04:16 <oedipus> DS: can we schedule a time when can all talk about this?
15:04:33 <oedipus> RS: have time scheduled during what is usual ARIA call on monday at 10am boston time
15:04:47 <oedipus> JC: when is DOM call?
15:04:54 <oedipus> DS: wednesdays at 1pm boston time
15:05:01 <oedipus> DS: may need followup meetings
15:05:15 <oedipus> RS: focus on DI Independent events that benefit more than a11y
15:05:43 <oedipus> CL: DougS appreciate flexibility; Janina, thank you for suggesting this joint meeting
15:05:47 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
15:05:49 <Zakim> -Steven
15:05:52 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
15:05:54 <Zakim> -Plh
15:05:55 <Zakim> -darobin
15:05:57 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
15:05:57 <Zakim> -glazou
15:06:35 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:06:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:06:48 <Zakim> -jcraig
15:07:09 <ddahl> ddahl has left #hcg
15:07:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:07:37 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
15:07:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +33.9.50.89.aaaa, glazou, Gregory_Rosmaita, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, darobin, Shepazu, Steven, Kazuyuki, Michael_Cooper, Janina,
15:07:40 <Zakim> ... +1.512.567.aabb, jcraig, Rich, Bert, Plh, Janina_Sajka
15:07:43 <ChrisL> chair: Chris
15:07:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:08:11 <Zakim> -ChrisL
15:08:16 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:08:16 <Zakim> -Rich
15:08:18 <Zakim> -Bert
15:08:20 <Zakim> -Shepazu
15:08:20 <Zakim> HTML_CG()10:00AM has ended
15:08:20 <janina> janina has left #hcg
15:08:21 <Zakim> Attendees were +33.9.50.89.aaaa, glazou, Gregory_Rosmaita, Debbie_Dahl, ChrisL, darobin, Shepazu, Steven, Kazuyuki, Michael_Cooper, Janina, +1.512.567.aabb, jcraig, Rich, Bert,
15:08:24 <Zakim> ... Plh, Janina_Sajka
15:08:30 <Bert> Bert has left #hcg
15:08:30 <Steven-mobile> Steven-mobile has joined #hcg
15:09:18 <oedipus> present- [+33.9.50.89.aaaa]
15:09:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:09:40 <jcraig> s/it across the board not just for a11y/it applying to OS- and browser-independence as well/
15:12:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:12:41 <jcraig> s/DOMActivate in as placeholder for Rich/agreed to consider OpenRequest and CloseRequest at Rich's suggestion, DOMActivate, EscapeRequest, and DOMAttrChangeRequest may suffice there/
15:13:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:14:03 <oedipus> regrets: Cameron McCormack, Erik Dahlström, Art Barstow, Charles McCathieNevile, Frederick Hirsch,  Lofton Henderson (partial)
15:14:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:15:04 <jcraig> s/browser doesn't have to pay attention to mutations, all it has to do is wait for an AT/we believe DOMAttrChangeRequest will not have the same performance implications as DOMAttrModified/
15:15:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:16:21 <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2010OctDec/0008.html
15:16:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/08-hcg-minutes.html oedipus
15:16:38 <jcraig> jcraig has left #hcg
15:18:49 <oedipus> zakim, please part
15:18:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #hcg
15:24:47 <RRSAgent> I see no action items