12:59:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wam
12:59:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-wam-irc
12:59:59 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
13:00:09 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
13:00:20 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
13:00:20 <ArtB> Scribe: Art
13:00:20 <ArtB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0051.html
13:00:20 <ArtB> Chair: Art
13:00:20 <ArtB> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference
13:00:54 <Zakim> +darobin
13:01:43 <Marcos> Marcos has joined #wam
13:01:48 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:01:48 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:01:50 <Zakim> +Steven
13:02:27 <Zakim> + +1.479.524.aaaa
13:03:26 <ArtB> Present: Art_Barstow, Robin_Berjon, Steven_Pemberton, Marcos_Caceres
13:03:33 <Steven> zakim, who is on the call?
13:03:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see Art_Barstow, darobin, Steven, +1.479.524.aaaa
13:03:45 <Steven> zakim, aaas is Marcos
13:03:45 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named 'aaas'
13:03:51 <Steven> zakim, aaaa is Marcos
13:03:53 <Zakim> +Marcos; got it
13:04:56 <ArtB> Topic: Review and tweak agenda
13:05:02 <ArtB> AB: a draft agenda was submitted yesterday ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0051.html ). Any change requests?
13:05:14 <ArtB> Topic: Announcements
13:05:20 <ArtB> AB: October 26 is the deadline for comments re October 5 LCWD of Widget Packaging and Configuration ( http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-widgets-20101005/ )
13:05:32 <lca> lca has joined #wam
13:05:37 <ArtB> AB: TPAC: widgets group will not meet; registration after October 22 results in increased registration fee ( http://www.w3.org/2010/11/TPAC/#Registration )
13:07:24 <ArtB> Topic: Widget Interface spec
13:07:30 <ArtB> AB: Addison Philips submitted a comment against the 7-Sep-2010 LCWD ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010JulSep/0728.html ) and it raises the issues about how a developer can determine the locale and direction for the "span-able" properties.
13:08:05 <ArtB> AB: Marcos submitted a proposal to address the issues ( http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2010OctDec/0033.html ). 
13:08:30 <ArtB> AB: so far, I don't think anyone has responded to MC's proposal
13:08:33 <ArtB> MC: yes, that's correct
13:08:45 <ArtB> AB: not clear if directionality needs to be an explicit part of the API or if the spec can "punt" on that as suggested by Marcos f.ex. by following ( http://www.iamcal.com/understanding-bidirectional-text/ )
13:09:30 <ArtB> MC: I think the API needs some type of extension
13:09:38 <ArtB> ... eg. the Localizeable DOM String
13:09:43 <ArtB> ... to add language
13:09:52 <ArtB> ... thus getters can work
13:09:56 <Marcos> eg. widget.name.lang 
13:10:06 <ArtB> AB: that part seems straight-forward
13:10:35 <ArtB> MC: the algorithm can be written in JS
13:10:45 <ArtB> ... don't think we should deal with that at the API level
13:11:45 <ArtB> AB: so you think the directionality is out of scope for the API
13:11:54 <ArtB> ... i.e. is handled by some layer above the API
13:11:57 <ArtB> ... is that correct?
13:12:02 <ArtB> MC: yes
13:12:28 <ArtB> AB: anyone else have input on this issue?
13:12:36 <ArtB> SP: think we need to hear from the I18N WG
13:12:46 <ArtB> RB: yes, I agree
13:12:58 <ArtB> ... don't think directionality should be part of the API
13:13:09 <ArtB> ... for example, it should definitely not be settable
13:13:48 <ArtB> ACTION: barstow ask the I18N WG to respond to Marcos' proposal for Interface locale and directionality
13:13:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-588 - Ask the I18N WG to respond to Marcos' proposal for Interface locale and directionality [on Arthur Barstow - due 2010-10-14].
13:14:03 <ArtB> AB: I'm becoming increasingly concerned the bidi model in P&C is overly complicated for a Level 1 spec. Could greatly simplify everything by dropping span and just defining the "dir" attribute for the span-able elements. Any additional info that is needed can be accessed via indirection i.e. include a URI in the metadata.
13:14:59 <ArtB> MC: in Opera we haven't had any problems implementing it
13:15:07 <ArtB> ... it is quite simple to process
13:16:46 <ArtB> AB: the use cases we see for these span-able elements is quite limited
13:17:06 <ArtB> ... e.g. just to display the name of a widget in a home screen
13:17:18 <ArtB> ... or the description is displayed by a widget "store"
13:17:49 <ArtB> MC: I did a whole lot of research for this
13:18:54 <Marcos> reseach was http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets/i18n.html
13:18:58 <ArtB> AB: I realize there are use cases for lots of embedded spans with different directions
13:19:14 <ArtB> ... but for a L1 spec we want wide deployement, it seems rather complicated
13:20:21 <lca> lca has joined #wam
13:28:56 <ArtB> AB: the other concern I would have here is will we get 2 impls that pass all of the span and dir test cases
13:29:43 <timeless_mbp> timeless_mbp has joined #wam
13:30:27 <ArtB> AB: do the test cases include nested spans with direction changes?
13:30:30 <ArtB> MC: yes, they do
13:31:00 <ArtB> ... would it help if I send my JS impl to the list?
13:31:08 <ArtB> AB: yes, I think it would be helpful
13:32:08 <ArtB> AB: anything else on Interface spec for today?
13:32:32 <ArtB> ... we'll have to go back to LC to add "lang" support
13:32:46 <ArtB> ... unless we define the lang in a separate spec
13:34:18 <ArtB> MC: I think other implementers will provide data about supporting P&C bidi model
13:34:26 <ArtB> AB: that would be good information to have
13:37:29 <ArtB> Topic: widget: URI scheme
13:37:42 <ArtB> AB: what's the status and plan Robin?
13:37:57 <ArtB> RB: I've been wondering if it should include navigation
13:38:34 <Zakim> -Marcos
13:38:45 <Zakim> +Marcos
13:38:49 <ArtB> ... and wondering if we coud use or resue the blob: uri scheme that is defined in the File API spec
13:39:14 <ArtB> RB: would be cleaner to put navigation in a separate spec
13:39:25 <ArtB> ... but would be easier to add it to uri scheme
13:39:37 <ArtB> ... spawning another spec has disadvantages
13:39:52 <ArtB> ... Need to get feedback from implementors re navigation
13:40:16 <ArtB> MC: we should do another landscape investigation
13:40:25 <ArtB> ... some impls don't navigate at all
13:40:34 <ArtB> ... for instance, Opera doesn't navigate
13:41:04 <ArtB> AB: you mean intra-widget package is not allowed
13:41:11 <ArtB> MC: correct, that is not allowed
13:41:28 <ArtB> ... if click on a link, it starts a new browser
13:41:59 <ArtB> RB: for V1, wondering if spec should be silent on navigation
13:42:06 <ArtB> MC: think we can live with that
13:42:28 <ArtB> ... there are some UCs for navigation
13:42:50 <ArtB> RB: what if an iframe is included in widget's index.html?
13:42:53 <ArtB> MC: not sure
13:43:42 <ArtB> AB: without more data, hard to know if we should say something normative, non-normative or remain silent
13:44:06 <ArtB> ... Marcos, does the landscape doc touch on navigation?
13:44:28 <ArtB> MC: no, it's a bit dated and didn't look at these more sophisticated use cases
13:44:55 <ArtB> AB: can one of your ask for some feedback?
13:44:59 <ArtB> MC: yes, I can do that
13:45:14 <ArtB> AB: ok; great and I'll send in info from the Qt WRT implementation
13:45:35 <ArtB> ACTION: marcos Ask implementors for feedback on navigation models supported
13:45:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-589 - Ask implementors for feedback on navigation models supported [on Marcos Caceres - due 2010-10-14].
13:46:12 <ArtB> RB: need to know if widget: URI is exposed
13:46:19 <ArtB> ... how about Opera, Marcos?
13:46:27 <ArtB> MC: we use it but don't think we expose it
13:46:59 <ArtB> RB: perhaps I should ask the list if there is value in merging widget and blob URIs
13:47:16 <ArtB> ... but if there are already impls, we don't want to break them
13:47:40 <ArtB> ... Given the IANA/IETF work involved, would be good to reuse a schemem if we can
13:48:32 <ArtB> AB: it would be good to know if other implementors support widget: scheme
13:49:00 <ArtB> ... I believe (not certain) that widget URI scheme is implemented by the Qt WRT, at least the alpha release
13:50:10 <ArtB> AB: would be good to get implementor feedback on widget: scheme
13:50:19 <ArtB> ... could use the same email as navigation request
13:50:25 <ArtB> MC: ok, I'll ask both
13:51:16 <ArtB> AB: so, registration is on hold pending more implementor feedback. Is that correct Robin?
13:51:26 <ArtB> RB: yes, we need to get more feedback
13:52:24 <Marcos> <a href="iframe.html">navigate to iframe</a>
13:52:25 <Marcos> <iframe width="200" height="200" id="iframe" src="iframe.html">
13:52:25 <Marcos> </iframe>
13:52:43 <Marcos> <p id="hello"></p>
13:52:44 <Marcos> <script>
13:52:44 <Marcos> var iframe = document.getElementById("iframe").src;
13:52:44 <Marcos> var p = document.getElementById("hello"); 
13:52:44 <Marcos> p.innerHTML = iframe;
13:52:45 <Marcos> </script>
13:53:52 <ArtB> MC: when "navigate to iframe" is clicked, the widget does Not navigate to iframe.html
13:56:08 <ArtB> Topic: AOB
13:56:15 <ArtB> AB: any topics?
13:58:28 <ArtB> AB: next meeting ...
13:58:36 <ArtB> ... 1 or 2 weeks?
13:59:06 <ArtB> ... let's go for 2 weeks which is Oct 21
13:59:15 <ArtB> ... and as always, take discussion to the list
14:00:14 <ArtB> AB: meeting adjourned
14:00:18 <Zakim> -darobin
14:00:19 <Zakim> -Marcos
14:00:21 <Zakim> -Steven
14:00:22 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
14:00:23 <Zakim> IA_WebApps(Widgets)9:00AM has ended
14:00:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Art_Barstow, darobin, Steven, +1.479.524.aaaa, Marcos
14:02:14 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:02:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-wam-minutes.html ArtB
14:02:19 <ArtB> zakim, bye
14:02:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wam
14:12:16 <ArtB> RRSAgent, bye
14:12:16 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-wam-actions.rdf :
14:12:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: barstow ask the I18N WG to respond to Marcos' proposal for Interface locale and directionality [1]
14:12:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-wam-irc#T13-13-48
14:12:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: marcos Ask implementors for feedback on navigation models supported [2]
14:12:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-wam-irc#T13-45-35