13:44:14 RRSAgent has joined #lld 13:44:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc 13:45:14 rrsagent, bookmark 13:45:14 See http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T13-45-14 13:45:35 zakim, this will be LLD 13:45:35 ok, emma; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes 13:46:22 rrsagent, please make record public 13:46:45 regrets, called in another meeting, I will leave a few minutes after the telecon start 13:46:45 Meeting: LLD XG 13:47:14 kcoyle has joined #lld 13:47:15 Chair: Emmanuelle 13:47:56 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Oct/0016.html 13:48:34 Previous: 2010-09-30 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html 13:49:11 Regrets: Anette, Gordon, Jodi, Felix, Lars 13:49:24 Regrets+: Alex, Kai, Monica, Martin, Andras, Jon, Kevin, Oreste 13:53:33 TomB has joined #lld 13:54:16 INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started 13:54:21 + +33.1.53.79.aaaa 13:54:23 +??P22 13:54:25 -??P22 13:54:27 +??P22 13:54:28 aaaa is me 13:54:33 zakim, aaaa is me 13:54:33 +emma; got it 13:54:36 zakim, ??p22 is TomB 13:54:36 +TomB; got it 13:55:00 matolat has joined #lld 13:55:19 +michaelp 13:56:12 antoine has joined #lld 13:56:37 zakim jeff is me 13:57:08 zakim, jeff is me 13:57:08 +jeff_; got it 13:57:18 +??P26 13:57:27 zakim, ??P26 is me 13:57:27 +antoine; got it 13:57:47 rrsagent, please draft minutes 13:57:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html antoine 13:57:50 jar has joined #lld 13:58:01 zakim, who is here? 13:58:01 On the phone I see TomB, emma, jeff_ (muted), antoine 13:58:02 On IRC I see jar, antoine, matolat, TomB, kcoyle, RRSAgent, Zakim, emma, oreste, jeff_, Abartov, mhausenblas, edsu, ww 13:58:20 rsinger has joined #lld 13:58:28 MarkVanAssem has joined #lld 13:59:02 bvatant has joined #lld 13:59:14 will follow only IRC today 13:59:25 conflicting agendas again 13:59:35 apologies 13:59:37 rayd has joined #lld 13:59:44 +Jonathan_Rees 13:59:49 +jeff_.a 13:59:58 +rsinger 14:00:21 zakim, jeff.a is matolat 14:00:22 sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'jeff.a' 14:00:26 +??P31 14:00:29 +marcia 14:00:30 zakim, jeff_.a is matolat 14:00:31 +matolat; got it 14:00:33 zakim jeff_.a is matolat 14:00:46 zakim, ??P31 is kcoyel 14:00:46 +kcoyel; got it 14:00:56 zakim, kcoyel is kcoyle 14:00:56 +kcoyle; got it 14:01:21 marcia has joined #lld 14:01:28 pmurray has joined #lld 14:01:31 +[LC] 14:01:43 zakim, LC is rayd 14:01:43 +rayd; got it 14:01:54 zakim, who makes noise ? 14:01:54 I don't understand your question, emma. 14:02:01 zakim, who is noisy ? 14:02:11 emma, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 10 (5%) 14:02:19 ? 14:02:55 + +1.404.892.aabb 14:03:11 MarkA has joined #lld 14:03:13 zakim, aabb is pmurray 14:03:38 digikim has joined #lld 14:03:49 +pmurray; got it 14:03:59 +??P1 14:03:59 logged on using new nick, but old one persists 14:04:33 zakim, ??P1 is digikim 14:04:33 +digikim; got it 14:04:33 Zakim P1 is me 14:04:44 jump in the pool, ray! 14:05:14 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:05:14 On the phone I see TomB (muted), emma, jeff_ (muted), antoine, Jonathan_Rees, matolat, rsinger, kcoyle, marcia, rayd, pmurray (muted), digikim 14:05:56 zakim, pick a victim 14:05:56 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose digikim 14:06:06 I'm also quite new to W3C processes and procedures -- this is my first working group. 14:06:14 cant get on phone now, VU phone central's not patching me through, try later... 14:06:53 Scribe: rayd 14:07:01 Scribe: Ray 14:07:09 scribenick: rayd 14:08:42 +Oreste 14:08:47 topic admin 14:08:59 topic: admin 14:09:24 emma: accept minutes? 14:09:30 RESOLVED: To accept minutes of previous telecon: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html 14:09:33 emma: minutes accepted 14:09:54 topic: summary of telecon 14:10:17 topic: face to face meeting 14:10:49 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010 14:10:55 emma: meeting friday oct 22 joint meeting with dc arch there is a draft agenda will post link 14:11:17 ack TomB 14:12:00 tomB: summary of tc with dc arch moving forward or not with dcmi model, alot has changed since model has been put forward 14:12:38 tomB: looking at ways to depricate model and adopr rdf abstract model, finalize by oct 15 14:13:09 s/depricate/deprecate 14:13:47 tomB: for meeting on 22 there will be many who sho up becaus they are at the dc mtg in addition to 16 already signed up, good presentations planned 14:14:58 tomB: be able to compare and contrast the 2 different approaches, marsh and gordon will present; long discussion about requirement s for app profiles - one way or several 14:15:22 q+ on action 14:15:28 s/marsh/marcia 14:15:31 ack antoi 14:15:31 antoine, you wanted to comment on action 14:16:05 antoine: is everyone happy with proposed agenda? 14:16:13 s/adopr/adopt 14:16:28 marcia has joined #lld 14:16:42 tomB: program is solid now, not much time for more, focus on preparing agenda as proposed. 14:16:47 +[VrijeUni] 14:16:51 ACTION: Any proposed changes to agenda for joint meeting with DC Architecture Forum (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010), please email TomB [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action01] 14:16:53 --DONE 14:17:12 zakim, VijeUni is MarkA 14:17:12 sorry, antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'VijeUni' 14:17:15 zakim, mute me 14:17:15 sorry, MarkA, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 14:17:19 topic: sat/sun part of meeting 14:17:23 zakim, VrijeUni is MarkA 14:17:23 +MarkA; got it 14:17:37 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh 14:17:51 emma: lot of change on agenda, everyone look at it. 14:18:13 emma: if you haven't registered and you plan to come, add your name. 14:18:57 emma: everyone attending should present a use case. 14:19:42 emma: sunday, sessions on use cases and topics. 14:20:05 emma:topic: use cases 14:20:21 Topic: Use cases 14:20:24 topic:use cases 14:20:38 so, seeing as I have only recently added my use case, should I add it to the F2F agenda in case I make it there? 14:20:50 yes! 14:20:50 yes, reminder 14:20:55 reminder++ 14:21:07 yes, some organization has been preparing, e.g., FAO 14:21:07 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Digital_Text_Repository 14:21:14 my yes was to abartov :-) 14:22:09 emma: send reminder to lists about use cases? 14:22:44 +1 14:23:13 q+ for library-oriented lists 14:23:25 yes, same as first time 14:23:33 ack 14:23:39 ack pm 14:23:40 pmurray, you wanted to discuss library-oriented lists 14:24:03 ->http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists 14:24:06 sorry, leaving for the other meeting 14:24:15 -Oreste 14:24:18 pmurray: should we add more library-oriented lists, e.g. code-for-lib? 14:24:21 oreste has left #lld 14:24:42 code4lib is on the list... 14:26:39 ACTION: first use case call senders to send a reminder to the lists they added on http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists 14:27:14 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseNotes 14:28:07 emma: use case notes page, review it to see if there are use cases missing 14:28:20 emma: ... e.g. citations. 14:29:02 kcoyle: during discussion at face to face are we going to try to fill in gaps? 14:29:26 +1 for just identifying the gaps at the F2F first 14:29:51 +1 for identifying gaps - we can work on filling them during the rest of our charter 14:30:36 emma: good question, not sure there will be time. will have time after face to face to fill in gaps. 14:30:55 don't see the SURF UC (contributed at dutchsemweb-l) in the list? 14:31:15 +1 for identifying gaps. Members who contributed UCs may be able to fill in more 14:31:21 I plan to send them a mail later asking them to try to fill the form 14:32:44 it was an interesting case in fact 14:32:50 topic: actions 14:34:39 ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01] 14:34:42 --CONTINUES 14:34:55 ACTION: Karen to export spreadsheet, and Asaf to convert to wiki table [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action02] 14:34:57 --DONE 14:35:04 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCasesVsTopics 14:35:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html antoine 14:35:59 ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action03] 14:36:02 --CONTINUES 14:36:09 ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about supplying additional use-cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action04] 14:36:13 --CONTINUES 14:37:07 ACTION: Alexander to create wiki page for identifying requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action06] 14:37:09 --DONE 14:37:17 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Oct/0001.html 14:37:29 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Requirements 14:40:46 matolat has joined #lld 14:40:51 q+ 14:41:25 ack kcoy 14:41:37 michaelp has joined #lld 14:41:39 kcoyle: occurs that we didn't ask people what gaps they see 14:42:10 emma: problems and limitations sections 14:42:14 q+ 14:42:15 +matolat.a 14:42:27 ack ant 14:42:31 kcoyle: do we have good enough gap analysis 14:42:35 zakim, mute me 14:42:35 MarkA should now be muted 14:43:14 (off topic: MarkVanAssem: SeCo won 1 hour ago the first prize in a open data competition in Finland: http://www.slideshare.net/apps4finland/apps4finland-2010-voittajat -- check slide 15; sorry partially in Finnish) 14:43:25 emma: we should go back to the use case owner when gaps are identified. 14:43:54 +1 14:44:28 :) 14:44:33 emma: would be good if people attending would act as advocate for one or more use cases 14:44:54 +1 14:45:02 yes 14:45:04 +1 (but I'm not here next week :-) 14:45:12 emma: ... not a use case you have contributed, a different use case 14:45:19 Did you say people /not/ advocate for a use case they have submitted? 14:45:33 +1 - "shepherds" lead discussion of that use case... 14:45:35 @pmurray: yes 14:45:43 digikim: congrats!! 14:45:57 digikim++ 14:45:58 +1 shepherds 14:45:59 Agreed. 14:46:06 We could try to identify UCs whose owners won't be at the F2F, and see if we can match volunteers to work with the owner and prepare to advocate the UC at the F2F. 14:46:42 good idea, asaf 14:47:43 Where should "shepherds" sign their names -- directly in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh#Use_case_discussion_9:00-10:30_.2B_11:00-12:30 ? 14:48:33 how much time per case? Or will it be by interest? 14:48:51 q+ 14:48:57 ack TomB 14:48:57 ack tom 14:49:05 ACTION: participants to volunteer as use case 'shepherds' by signing their names in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh#Use_case_discussion_9:00-10:30_.2B_11:00-12:30 14:49:40 shepherd = champion, proponent 14:50:13 I don't think either "shepherd" or "advocate" is quite the right term, I think "presenter" is. 14:50:22 the shepherd should have read the UC carefully and is prepared to lead discussion. It's not about producing an analysis but to lead discussion. Everyone should read 1 or 2 UC, in order to spread the work 14:50:54 discussion leader? 14:50:58 they are also moderator 14:51:10 (as an outcome of this wg, we should recommend to create a new wg on the topic of "shepherd" vs "advocate" vs "presenter") 14:51:16 "sucker" 14:51:16 let's call them something in French :-) 14:51:27 "le suckeeeer" 14:51:38 animateur... 14:52:35 topic: use topics 14:52:37 Topic: Topics 14:53:13 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Topics 14:53:22 q+ 14:53:35 ack kc 14:53:59 kcoyle: do we want to do anymore work elaborating on topics before f2f or leave it as is? 14:54:08 I think some editing may be needed 14:54:22 emma: ok to leave table as starting point. 14:54:44 +1 for short names, "handles" - better than numbers... 14:54:56 kcoyle: can add short name for reference. 14:55:32 +1 for short names 14:55:39 Karen, see http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-ucr/#Requirements for examples of short names 14:55:46 ACTION: karen to add short names to the topics page 14:56:06 ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08] 14:56:07 -- 14:56:09 DONE 14:56:13 --DONE 14:56:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html antoine 14:56:41 topic: wiki pages for capturing relevant links and ideas 14:56:55 q+ environmental scan? 14:57:06 er 14:57:22 ack rsinger 14:58:02 A few data sets are on the Linked Data cloud. 14:58:06 +1 for a list 14:58:14 michaelp: right, but it's not comprehensive 14:58:15 Upper right hand corner. 14:58:16 rsinger: is there a list of all the lld that exists in the wild and if so it should go in this wiki 14:58:25 there is the linked data cloud -- i t has some bib data 14:58:38 sections on those already there and some are experimenting 14:58:54 michaelp: that appeared in my talk 14:58:56 -matolat 14:59:04 +1 for a list, plus some basic facts: size, SPARQL endpoint, etc. 14:59:07 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Oct/0016.html 14:59:43 ACTION: ross to create a page with LLD data sets on the wiki 15:00:18 i won't be at the f2f, anyway 15:00:42 jar has left #lld 15:00:48 -Jonathan_Rees 15:00:56 topic: upcoming topics 15:01:33 emma: Technology and best practices and Community building and outreach 15:01:46 emma ... we will discuss next week 15:02:10 thanks 15:02:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html antoine 15:02:16 -kcoyle 15:02:18 thanks! 15:02:18 -jeff_ 15:02:20 -michaelp 15:02:20 -pmurray 15:02:21 -marcia 15:02:28 -MarkA 15:02:28 -digikim 15:02:29 -rsinger 15:02:36 ack TomB 15:02:44 ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08] 15:02:47 --DONE 15:03:15 zakim, list attendees 15:03:16 As of this point the attendees have been +33.1.53.79.aaaa, emma, TomB, jeff_, antoine, Jonathan_Rees, rsinger, marcia, matolat, kcoyle, rayd, +1.404.892.aabb, pmurray, digikim, 15:03:18 ... Oreste, MarkA, michaelp 15:03:18 -TomB 15:03:32 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:03:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-minutes.html antoine 15:04:09 zakim, bye 15:04:09 leaving. As of this point the attendees were +33.1.53.79.aaaa, emma, TomB, jeff_, antoine, Jonathan_Rees, rsinger, marcia, matolat, kcoyle, rayd, +1.404.892.aabb, pmurray, 15:04:09 Zakim has left #lld 15:04:13 ... digikim, Oreste, MarkA, michaelp 15:04:16 rrsagent, bye 15:04:16 I see 12 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-actions.rdf : 15:04:16 ACTION: Any proposed changes to agenda for joint meeting with DC Architecture Forum (http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010), please email TomB [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action01] [1] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-16-51 15:04:16 ACTION: first use case call senders to send a reminder to the lists they added on http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Dissemination_Lists [2] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-26-39 15:04:16 ACTION: emma, kcoyle, GordonD, Marcia, bvatant to structure the discussion of use cases in light of the topic list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/23-lld-minutes.html#action01] [3] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-34-39 15:04:16 ACTION: Karen to export spreadsheet, and Asaf to convert to wiki table [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action02] [4] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-34-55 15:04:16 ACTION: Use-case owner(s) to check table and matches [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action03] [5] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-35-59 15:04:16 ACTION: Topic owners to check table and think about supplying additional use-cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action04] [6] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-36-09 15:04:16 ACTION: Alexander to create wiki page for identifying requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/09/30-lld-minutes.html#action06] [7] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-37-07 15:04:16 ACTION: participants to volunteer as use case 'shepherds' by signing their names in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh#Use_case_discussion_9:00-10:30_.2B_11:00-12:30 [8] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-49-05 15:04:16 ACTION: karen to add short names to the topics page [9] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-55-46 15:04:16 ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08] [10] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-56-06 15:04:16 ACTION: ross to create a page with LLD data sets on the wiki [11] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T14-59-43 15:04:16 ACTION: Everyone to elaborate on topics in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/07/08-lld-minutes.html#action08] [12] 15:04:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/10/07-lld-irc#T15-02-44