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17:09:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:09:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DOM3
17:09:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_WebApps(DOM3)2:00PM scheduled to start in 51 minutes
17:09:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
17:09:24 <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2010
17:09:39 <Travis> I see 4 open issues.
17:09:48 <Travis> Topic: Last Call Issue review
17:10:09 <Travis> Hmm, I was filtered on "open"...
17:10:30 <smaug_> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/products/2 has quite a few issues
17:11:30 <Travis> Issue 1: I propose to resolve as fixed.
17:12:19 <Travis> Issues raised since last call (summary)
17:13:01 <Travis> Issue 119: input/keyboard locale (we agreed to do that) -- need a concrete proposal
17:13:29 <Travis> shepazu: ... Will just incorporate what's in the feedback.
17:14:17 <Travis> jrossi: In my analysis of use-cases, generally, it's more important to know what the locale is _before_ getting an event.
17:14:35 <Travis> ... Therefore, it may be better to have the state available for retrieval
17:14:50 <Travis> ... also, the state doesn't change that often.
17:15:48 <Travis> shepazu: How do you cover the scenario where copy/paste from another locale?
17:16:37 <Travis> jrossi: Acording to our developers on IE, the keyboard locale information is not conveyed as part of the copy/paste system (in Windows). Therefore, that scenario just isn't possible on a Windows-based OS.
17:17:01 <Travis> shepazu: Hmm. True. Though an OS could change... :-)
17:17:56 <Travis> ... Second issue with that proposal (of more concern to me): By allowing the browser to get your locale, it's yet another fingerprinting heurisitic that browser vendors are trying to crack-down on.
17:18:29 <Travis> ... From a privacy standpoint, my concern is around yet more passive information exposed to script.
17:18:56 <Travis> jrossi: System locale (vs. keyboard locale) is already exposed in script in major browsers.
17:19:24 <Travis> smaug_: My system locale is en_US, though my keyboard locale is Finnish (so there's less info exposed today).
17:21:27 <Travis> shepazu: Folk's concerns are that this [keyboard locale state-based property] adds yet one more piece of info into the fingerprinting reveal
17:21:55 <Travis> ... Trying to think through use-cases....
17:22:02 <Travis> ... Let's assume there's a method to get the locale.
17:22:10 <Travis> ... (keyboard locale)
17:24:56 <Travis> jrossi: It we had this property on keyboard/input, would we leak this through dispatchEvent?
17:25:11 <Travis> Travis: No, it would have the empty string (because it wasn't initialized)
17:25:26 <Travis> shepazu: initKeyboardEvent would have a way to provide an initial value
17:26:07 <Travis> ... A browser could have a policy where the value (state value) isn't exposed until the keyboard is used.
17:26:23 <Travis> ... They could also have a user-facing privacy setting to turn off keyboard locale.
17:26:30 <Travis> ... (and other locale settings)
17:27:13 <Travis> ... If we wanted to distinguish between keyboard and paste events, we could have both methods (the static getter and provide the data on the event)
17:28:18 <Travis> smaug_: Thinking about specific event flows...
17:28:29 <Travis> ... first time the user uses the keyboard, the event should have some locale
17:29:40 <Travis> ... Then if the user changes the keyboard locale, an event could also be fired.
17:30:46 <Travis> ... (correction to the above: first time the keyboard is used, we could fire an event that contains the keyboard locale as well)
17:31:01 <Travis> (All: general agreement...)
17:35:02 <Travis> shepazu: Since we're talking about state, does this make sense to have a new interface with potentially other state on it?
17:35:29 <Travis> travis: There's another working group doing something similiar with system state and events (a System API spec?)
17:36:12 <Travis> shepazu: If we do this, we probably shouldn't hand it over to another group, as we really need to satisfy our Last Call comment and this is really needed for internationalization.
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17:37:53 <Travis> Travis: Given that simply adding the keyboard locale to the keyboard event/input event follows a well-established pattern in this spec, and that doing it the other way (using a state property and change notification) is a new pattern in this spec, AND given that there are privacy concerns for providing the state property, my conclusion is to go with original proposal in the mail.
17:38:40 <Travis> shepazu: Don't have a strong feeling either way, but my inclination is to go with what was suggested in the Raised issue.
17:38:44 <Travis> jrossi: No objections.
17:38:55 <Travis> smaug_: Yeah.
17:39:14 <Travis> shepazu: Issue 120 - not doing that.
17:39:37 <Travis> ... Issue 121 - recommend doing this in another spec.
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17:40:44 <Travis> ... Issue 122 - not doing that.
17:40:55 <Travis> ... Issue 123: Rationale for feature strings
17:42:01 <Travis> jrossi: In some cases user agents may claim support but not actually support all the events.
17:42:17 <Travis> shepazu: This really comes down to an ideoligical issue.
17:43:15 <shepazu> Modernizr is one approach
17:43:18 <Travis> ... Specs generally have a provision for hasFeature, and though it's not usually dependable it has a long and honorable tradition
17:44:02 <Travis> ... Detecting particular events can be hard/difficult (you have to get a trusted event to know for sure)
17:44:30 <Travis> ... With our more discrete feature strings, implementations (like IE9) can start reporting exactly what events are supported.
17:44:40 <Travis> FIRE ALARM!
17:45:01 <Travis> See ya!
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17:57:51 <smaug_> shepazu: sent
17:57:59 <smaug_> email about that hasFeature
17:58:07 <smaug_> let's see what Simon says about it
17:58:43 <shepazu> thanks, smaug_ 
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18:51:10 <shepazu> huh, they are taking a long time to come back... I was hoping to cover more stuff today
18:52:48 <smaug_> perhaps the fire alarm was a real thing
18:52:52 <smaug_> not just some testing
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22:37:02 <timeless_mbp> the hotel reservation desk isn't open at night!
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