13:47:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:47:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/06-dap-irc
13:47:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:47:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:47:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:47:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
13:47:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:47:25 <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2010
13:48:04 <fjh> Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:48:14 <fjh> Present+  Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:48:44 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Oct/0007.html
13:49:04 <fjh> DAP 3279  ; agenda  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Oct/0007.html ;  Please register Present+ First_Last;  also update zakim handle, zakim, aaa is handle
13:50:38 <fjh> Regrets+ Marco_Marengo, Suresh_Chitturi
13:51:57 <fjh> Regrets+ Dominique-Hazael-Massieux
13:53:08 <fjh> Topic: Administrative
13:58:17 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:58:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:58:39 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:58:39 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
13:59:43 <Claes> Claes has joined #dap
13:59:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:59:59 <arve> fjh: sorry, no
13:59:59 <arve> arve has left #dap
14:00:28 <AnssiK> AnssiK has joined #dap
14:00:30 <LauraA> LauraA has joined #dap
14:00:51 <dom> Zakim, code?
14:00:51 <Zakim> the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), dom
14:00:52 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is wonsun
14:00:53 <Zakim> +wonsun; got it
14:00:59 <Zakim> +??P4
14:01:09 <dom> Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:01:10 <Zakim> +Dom (was ??P4)
14:01:20 <darobin> Zakim, why won't you return my calls anymore?
14:01:20 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, darobin.
14:01:23 <fjh> Regrets- Dominique-Hazael-Massieux
14:01:25 <Zakim> + +46.1.08.01.aaaa
14:01:27 <LauraA> Present+ LauraA
14:01:29 <Dong-Young> Dong-Young has joined #dap
14:01:48 <Dong-Young> Present+ Dong-Young_Lee
14:02:01 <Claes> Zakim, aaaa is Claes
14:02:01 <Zakim> +Claes; got it
14:02:10 <Zakim> +??P7
14:02:17 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
14:02:23 <Zakim> + +44.777.541.aabb
14:02:29 <darobin> Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:02:29 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:02:32 <Zakim> + +44.757.091.aacc
14:02:36 <LauraA> Zakim, aabb is LauraA
14:02:37 <Zakim> +LauraA; got it
14:02:56 <fjh> zakim, wonsun is wonsuk
14:02:56 <Zakim> +wonsuk; got it
14:03:02 <richt> Zakim, aacc is me
14:03:02 <Zakim> +richt; got it
14:03:05 <fjh> Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
14:03:09 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:03:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, wonsuk, Dom, Claes, darobin, LauraA, richt
14:03:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see Dong-Young, LauraA, AnssiK, Claes, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, wmaslowski, shepazu, trackbot, ingmar, ilkka, dom
14:03:11 <richt> Present+ Richard_Tibbett
14:04:02 <Zakim> + +358.504.86aadd
14:04:05 <AnssiK> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:04:12 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
14:04:13 <AnssiK> zakim, aadd is AnssiK
14:04:13 <Zakim> +AnssiK; got it
14:04:57 <Zakim> + +358.504.86aaee
14:05:05 <Claes> Scribenick: Claes
14:05:16 <ilkka> zakim, aaee is ilkka
14:05:16 <Zakim> +ilkka; got it
14:05:24 <Zakim> + +46.1.07.15.aaff
14:05:26 <ilkka> Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
14:05:29 <fjh> WG questionnaire (for all),  http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/tpac2010dap/
14:05:30 <fjh> TPAC registration (for in-person attendees) http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2010reg/
14:05:44 <Claes> Topic: TPAC registration
14:05:46 <nwidell> zakim, aaff is nwidell
14:05:46 <Zakim> +nwidell; got it
14:05:48 <cmarc> cmarc has joined #dap
14:05:54 <Claes> Reminder for everyone to register
14:06:04 <nwidell> Present+ Niklas_Widell
14:06:54 <fjh> Agenda: ;  Please register Present+ First_Last;  also update zakim handle, zakim, aaa is handle
14:07:05 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Oct/0007.html
14:07:13 <cmarc> Present Cecile_Marc
14:07:18 <fjh> "Permissions for Device API Access" published as First Public Working Draft,   , http://w3.org/TR/api-perms 
14:07:27 <fjh> Reminder, no call next week (13 October 2010 Teleconference Cancelled)
14:07:32 <Claes> Reminder, no call next week
14:07:38 <fjh> Next teleconference 20 October, http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/minutes
14:07:54 <Claes> Topic: Minutes approval
14:07:57 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/att-0160/minutes-2010-09-29.html
14:08:05 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 29 Sept 2010 approved
14:08:05 <fjh> ]
14:08:19 <Claes> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 29 Sept 2010 approved
14:08:32 <Claes> Topic: Permissions
14:08:37 <Zakim> +Vincent_Mahe
14:08:44 <Claes> Draft published
14:08:47 <fjh> published, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Oct/0006.html
14:09:06 <darobin> Zakim, Vincent_Mahe is CecileMarc
14:09:06 <Zakim> +CecileMarc; got it
14:09:07 <dom> Zakim, Vincent_Mahe is really Cecile_Marc
14:09:07 <Zakim> sorry, dom, I do not recognize a party named 'Vincent_Mahe'
14:09:19 <dom> Present+ Cecile_Marc
14:09:23 <Zakim> + +1.425.214.aagg
14:09:27 <darobin> Zakim, CecileMarc is cmarc 
14:09:27 <Zakim> +cmarc; got it
14:09:33 <bryan> bryan has joined #dap
14:09:56 <dom> welcome cecile!
14:10:10 <bryan> Present+ Bryan_Sullivan
14:10:12 <Claes> New member: Cecile Mark, Orange 
14:10:20 <darobin> s/Mark/Marc/
14:10:27 <Claes> Topic: Privacy
14:10:48 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Oct/0008.html
14:10:55 <fjh> Alissa added issues to draft
14:11:11 <dom> ACTION-210?
14:11:11 <trackbot> ACTION-210 -- Alissa Cooper to summarize and add issues to ruleset doc -- due 2010-07-21 -- OPEN
14:11:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/210
14:11:31 <fjh> W3C Workshop on Privacy and data usage control held 4-5 October,  http://www.w3.org/2010/policy-ws/agenda.html
14:11:38 <Claes> Workshop in Boston
14:11:59 <jmorris> jmorris has joined #dap
14:12:18 <fjh> 12http://www.w3.org/2010/policy-ws/papers/03-Doty-Wilde-Berkeley.pdf
14:12:18 <fjh> 12http://www.w3.org/2010/09/raggett-fresh-take-on-p3p/
14:12:19 <Zakim> + +1.202.637.aahh
14:12:19 <fjh> 12http://www.w3.org/2010/policy-ws/papers/04-Hart-stonybrook.pdf
14:12:40 <jmorris> zakim, aahh is jmorris
14:12:40 <Zakim> +jmorris; got it
14:14:59 <Claes> Topic: APIs
14:15:10 <Claes> Topic: Contacts
14:15:13 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:15:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, wonsuk, Dom, Claes, darobin, LauraA, richt, AnssiK, ilkka, nwidell, cmarc, +1.425.214.aagg, jmorris
14:15:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see jmorris, bryan, cmarc, nwidell, Dong-Young, LauraA, AnssiK, Claes, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, wmaslowski, shepazu, trackbot, ingmar, ilkka, dom
14:15:33 <Claes> Event based invocation:
14:15:46 <fjh>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Oct/0001.html
14:15:55 <fjh> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/Overview.html#api-invocation-via-dom-events
14:16:22 <darobin> [+1 from me]
14:16:36 <Claes> Richard: Added an informative section on invocation via dom events
14:16:46 <Claes> Robin: Wants it normative
14:17:42 <Claes> ......go ahead and add it
14:18:45 <dom> (e.g. "touchstart")
14:18:49 <ilkka> q+
14:18:55 <darobin> ack ilkka 
14:19:00 <Claes> ....worries if we start whitelisting events
14:19:40 <dom> (there is a new proposed wg to work on touch interfaces)
14:19:54 <darobin> ack ilkka 
14:20:03 <bryan> q+
14:20:09 <Claes> Richard: Will work on this and make it normative
14:20:14 <fjh> touch working group, http://www.w3.org/2010/07/touchinterface-charter.html
14:20:41 <richt> q+ to respond to Illka RE: device API
14:20:48 <Claes> Ilkka: Good optimization. Also usable in capture API
14:21:19 <dom> (I would start putting it individually in specs, and factoring it out only when it's clear that it's productive)
14:21:21 <Claes> ...could we make it reusable?
14:21:27 <darobin> ack richt 
14:21:27 <Zakim> richt, you wanted to respond to Illka RE: device API
14:21:37 <darobin> [+1 to dom]
14:21:59 <Claes> Richard: Agrees, it could be applicable in capture API as well
14:22:15 <Claes> ...need device element?
14:23:20 <Claes> ...a JS way to call JS API
14:23:30 <dom> (I'm doubtful about this; <device> had all sort of protections (in terms of styling, clickjacking, etc) IIRC)
14:23:31 <darobin> [I'm starting to think we're doing a little too much design on the fly orally]
14:23:37 <Claes> ....could deprecate device element?
14:24:22 <fjh> Do we understand the privacy and security implications for this approach, and that be added to the section in this document?
14:25:03 <darobin> [fjh, no, we don't really yet, but it's worth investigating]
14:25:07 <dom> (the other thing that the <device> element is a streaming API, very relevant for capture, but possibly dinstiguishable)
14:25:19 <fjh> [agree that it is worth investigating]
14:25:38 <Claes> More productive to continue this discussion by e-mail
14:27:12 <fjh> clickjacking, and coercion need review
14:27:53 <darobin> ack bryan
14:29:11 <AnssiK> q+
14:29:12 <Claes> Bryan: Could we describe clickjacking in security and rivacy section?
14:29:22 <fjh> s/rivacy/privacy
14:29:51 <Claes> Richard: Nothing is shared until the user chooses
14:30:44 <fjh> robin: denial of service not an issue since picker is modal unlike window.open
14:31:07 <Zakim> -Claes
14:31:17 <Claes> Rich: The prompt is modal..
14:31:30 <Claes> sorry lost phone connection
14:31:56 <Claes> Yes, I am calling
14:32:00 <fjh> rich: we should note this in the spec, even though it might appear controversial
14:32:04 <Zakim> -LauraA
14:32:43 <fjh> q+
14:33:45 <darobin> ack AnssiK 
14:33:49 <Zakim> +LauraA
14:34:06 <Claes> having trouble calling in
14:34:16 <nwidell> nwidell has joined #dap
14:34:24 <fjh> ansii: clickjacking could be a serious attach, a big concern
14:34:56 <Zakim> -ilkka
14:35:02 <Claes> no
14:35:08 <Zakim> +[T-Systems]
14:35:28 <fjh> s/no//
14:36:06 <fjh> ansii: attack could make it likely to take picture etc without intending to. should take this seriously
14:36:16 <ingmar> present+ Ingmar_Kliche
14:36:19 <fjh> s/this/this risk
14:37:09 <fjh> rich: tested in various browsers with variety of means to generate click events, and can do now already, but gets stopped at dialog
14:37:12 <fjh> ScribeNick: fjh
14:37:42 <fjh> ansii: where do we find examples of clickjacking attacks
14:37:56 <dom> we could ask public-web-security?
14:38:05 <Zakim> +Claes
14:38:15 <darobin> q?
14:38:23 <Claes> Back, had to use US number
14:38:28 <darobin> ack fjh 
14:38:32 <Claes> Scribenick: Claes
14:38:53 <dom> (so, maybe the <device>-replacement idea should be put into a document on its own while we work on it?)
14:39:35 <Claes> Rich: Normative or not?
14:39:41 <darobin> +1
14:39:42 <Zakim> +ilkka
14:40:20 <fjh> having separate document would address Ilkka's concern about reuse
14:40:37 <ingmar> zakim, [T-Systems] is Ingmar_Kliche
14:40:37 <Zakim> +Ingmar_Kliche; got it
14:41:07 <dom> (or just an action on rich?)
14:41:30 <Claes> Proposed RESOLUTION: the <device>-replacement idea should be put into a document on its own while we work on it
14:42:09 <dom> ACTION: Richard to put his ideas on <device>-alternative in a separate editors draft
14:42:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-283 - Put his ideas on <device>-alternative in a separate editors draft [on Richard Tibbett - due 2010-10-13].
14:42:45 <Claes> Topic: Capture API
14:42:53 <Claes> Action on review to review Privacy
14:42:53 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on
14:43:14 <Claes> Will be done withi two weeks
14:43:14 <dom> ACTION-251 due +2 weeks
14:43:14 <trackbot> ACTION-251 Review privacy text related to ISSUE-78 for capture due date now +2 weeks
14:43:16 <darobin> q?
14:43:31 <Claes> Topic: Calendar
14:43:39 <Claes> Surresh not present
14:43:49 <Claes> Topic: Sys Info
14:43:52 <fjh> ACTION-213?
14:43:52 <trackbot> ACTION-213 -- Dong-Young Lee to review sysinfo draft after edits made -- due 2010-07-21 -- OPEN
14:43:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/213
14:44:06 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Oct/0002.html 
14:44:19 <richt> Is anyone aware of navigator.connection.type in Android?
14:44:32 <dom> I've pointed to it a couple of months ago
14:44:35 <richt> I'd like to approach Sys Info API security in a similar way...
14:44:46 <richt> ...limit the info available but no security prompts.
14:44:56 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:44:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/06-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:45:25 <Claes> Rich: avigator.connection.type in Android says type of connection
14:45:29 <fjh> s/ScribeNick: fjh//
14:45:55 <fjh> s/fjh: sorry, no//
14:46:09 <fjh> s/DAP 3279.*//
14:46:37 <fjh> s/Present Cecile_Marc//
14:46:47 <Claes> Rich: will be sent a propsal based on above
14:46:47 <fjh> s/\]//
14:46:49 <AnssiK> [some info on clickjacking from The Open Web Application Security Project: http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Clickjacking]
14:47:02 <Claes> ...without security promting etc
14:47:03 <dom> (I agree network.connection.type is indeed pretty harmless a priori; enabling it would require a lot of changes to the architecture of sysinfo a priori)
14:47:09 <fjh> s/^12//g
14:47:48 <richt> s/will be sent/will aim to produce
14:48:03 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:48:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/06-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:48:05 <Claes> Dong: Have reviewed Sys Info. Would like more examples
14:48:19 <dom> (looking at the network interface in sysinfo, everything seems actually pretty harmless, even taken in combination; maybe the security model for networkinfo should be no prompt?)
14:48:27 <darobin> ACTION-243?
14:48:27 <trackbot> ACTION-243 -- Dong-Young Lee to review sysinfo draft after edits made -- due 2010-08-09 -- OPEN
14:48:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/243
14:48:32 <darobin> ACTION-243 closed
14:48:32 <trackbot> ACTION-243 Review sysinfo draft after edits made closed
14:48:35 <richt> s/Rich: avigator.connection.type/Rich: navigator.connection.type
14:48:46 <dom> ACTION-243: feedback is: more examples would make the document easier to understand
14:48:46 <trackbot> ACTION-243 Review sysinfo draft after edits made notes added
14:49:01 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:49:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/06-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:49:06 <Claes> Note call canceled next week
14:49:07 <Zakim> -darobin
14:49:09 <Zakim> - +1.425.214.aagg
14:49:11 <Zakim> -jmorris
14:49:13 <Zakim> -nwidell
14:49:15 <Zakim> -Dom
14:49:17 <Zakim> -richt
14:49:18 <Zakim> -AnssiK
14:49:19 <Zakim> -fjh
14:49:24 <Zakim> -cmarc
14:49:26 <Zakim> -Ingmar_Kliche
14:49:28 <Zakim> -Claes
14:49:29 <Zakim> -LauraA
14:49:36 <Zakim> -wonsuk
14:50:05 <fjh_> fjh_ has joined #dap
14:53:17 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:53:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see ilkka
14:53:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see fjh_, bryan, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, darobin, richt, wmaslowski, shepazu, trackbot, ingmar, ilkka, dom
15:05:31 <richt_> richt_ has joined #dap
15:25:36 <tlr> tlr has joined #dap
15:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, ilkka, in UW_DAP()10:00AM
15:35:03 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:35:07 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, Dom, +46.1.08.01.aaaa, Claes, +44.777.541.aabb, darobin, +44.757.091.aacc, LauraA, wonsuk, richt, +358.504.86aadd, AnssiK, +358.504.86aaee, ilkka,
15:35:09 <Zakim> ... +46.1.07.15.aaff, nwidell, +1.425.214.aagg, cmarc, +1.202.637.aahh, jmorris, Ingmar_Kliche
15:35:30 <fjh_> fjh_ has left #dap
15:46:25 <fjh> fjh has left #dap
16:01:23 <tlr> tlr has joined #dap
17:02:39 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dap