IRC log of svg on 2010-10-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:00:33 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-irc
20:00:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:00:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
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Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
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ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()4:00PM already started
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Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:00:38 [trackbot]
Date: 05 October 2010
20:01:08 [Zakim]
+??P13
20:01:19 [ed]
Zakim, ??P13 is me
20:01:19 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
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+ +39.537.7.aaaa
20:05:24 [Zakim]
+Shepazu
20:07:46 [ed]
topic: ISSUE-2353
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ISSUE-2353?
20:07:57 [trackbot]
ISSUE-2353 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify coordinates for feImage. -- raised
20:07:57 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2353
20:08:22 [ed]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-svg-editors/2010Oct/0011.html
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http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/filters.html#feImageElement
20:14:05 [ed]
topic: SVG Integration
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scribeNick: ed
20:14:44 [ed]
DS: AG updated the tables, some minor bugs but it's good enough as a starting point
20:14:58 [ed]
... added elements, attributes and properties into SVGIntegration
20:15:31 [ed]
...and filed a bug with HTML5 to not whitelist some attributes and elements but rather to refer to SVG Integration
20:16:20 [shepazu]
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10965
20:16:44 [ed]
... we've discussed this concern before
20:17:58 [ed]
... HTML5 will be contemporary with SVG2
20:18:16 [ed]
... need to collect all attributes and elements from all specs
20:19:13 [ed]
... i've outlined an algorithm for dealing with mixed-case
20:19:24 [ed]
... it's well established
20:19:28 [ed]
...in unicode
20:19:44 [ed]
PD: that's lowercasing everything, right?
20:21:20 [ed]
PD: could you forward-compatible this, such that elements automatically work?
20:21:46 [ed]
... can we skip the tables?
20:22:26 [ed]
DS: casematching is an issue, most authors don't care, but xml does
20:22:35 [ed]
... but svg in html isn't xml anymore
20:22:54 [ed]
... could consider it as two serializations
20:23:11 [ed]
... or we could make schema that allows both
20:23:19 [ed]
... not sure it's worth it
20:23:54 [ed]
... though if we think people will screw up casing
20:24:36 [ed]
... have seen people getting 'viewBox' wrong, it has a capital B, i've seen 'viewbox' many times
20:25:39 [ed]
PD: don't buy your xslt argument, if you want to use that you make sure you have valid xml
20:27:21 [ed]
DS: we'll face similar issues with CSS properties, where properties are shared
20:27:42 [ed]
... e.g with lowercasing case-sensitive values
20:28:52 [ed]
PD: there are technolgies that were done in svg first, but which are now moving into the html5 space
20:29:08 [ed]
... things that aren't necessarily bound to vector graphics
20:29:31 [ed]
DS: we should try to make features maximally useful to the web languages
20:31:08 [ed]
... svg didn't define the xml format, wouldn't mind if there was a similar effort to make xml-like format that allows error-correction as html5 does, such that we get case-insensitivty, leaving off attribute quotemarks
20:31:42 [ed]
... maybe there should be a more forgiving parser for xml
20:32:13 [ed]
... in the svg2 timeframe, we need to resolve the case sensititvy
20:33:29 [ed]
PD: we need to take a stand on strict xml vs looser syntax
20:33:56 [ed]
... it's the most important topic
20:35:03 [ed]
DS: PD you're writing up a whitepaper for tpac?
20:35:31 [ed]
PD: more of a gathering of thoughts
20:35:45 [ed]
...in progress, trying to get it ready before tpac
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...to get feedback on it
20:35:59 [ed]
DS: as a starting position that would be useful
20:37:31 [karl]
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20:38:28 [ed]
PD: we need to find our position, xml or not
20:38:50 [ed]
DS: the goal is to adopt svg, not particulary xml
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...the case sensitityv is an obstacle
20:39:26 [ed]
PD: people are likely going to learn svg from the html perspective
20:39:44 [ed]
... they're doing css transforms, not svg transforms
20:41:56 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:42:02 [ed]
DS: we should put a high priority on filters, and transforms
20:42:06 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
20:42:11 [ed]
...anything we are going to be sharing
20:42:43 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:43:13 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
20:43:50 [Zakim]
+??P0
20:44:08 [jwatt]
Zakim: ++P0 is me
20:44:16 [jwatt]
Zakim: ??P0 is me
20:45:49 [ed]
DS: how do we make it as easy as possible for people to use svg? with the ideoms they're already familiar with
20:45:59 [ed]
...PD said that he thinks this is urgent
20:50:52 [heycam]
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20:55:31 [ed]
topic: new zeeland f2f
20:55:40 [ed]
PD: when's that?
20:55:50 [ed]
DS: late february
20:56:28 [ed]
ED: JW do you have any more details?
20:56:43 [ed]
JW: need to narrow down the dates
20:57:02 [ed]
DS: could you send out an email?
20:57:07 [ed]
JW: ok
20:58:53 [ed]
DS: PD will you be able to go?
20:59:12 [ed]
PD: will check
21:00:38 [ed]
topic: testsuite
21:01:08 [ed]
PD: how do we get the microsoft tests accepted by the wg?
21:01:47 [ed]
ED: get them reviewed by people on the group, know it's hard and people are pressed for time and so on
21:02:33 [ed]
PD: we are working on categorizing the tests better, to say that the users can code to particular modules
21:03:17 [ed]
... we need to get the message across that svg is ready for primetime
21:04:15 [ed]
DS: when i did presentations filters is the thing that excites people the most
21:04:30 [ed]
... maybe it will come to be seen as a css feature though
21:04:45 [ed]
... it's still percieved as an svg feature
21:05:15 [ed]
... we might start talking about reorganization, functionality sets
21:06:56 [ed]
... we're doing a report on the testsuite, on tests that we think are broken
21:07:18 [ed]
... some tests are using features like declarative animation
21:07:40 [ed]
... our proposal would be to make the tests more finegrained
21:07:49 [ed]
... the test naming
21:08:09 [ed]
DS: an alternative route... a dependency chain for each spec
21:08:22 [ed]
... for each test what part of the spec is that test testing
21:08:51 [ed]
... in terms of organizing the tests we should add metadata to say what dependencies the test has
21:09:29 [ed]
... so if you have filters in a markers test, link to those sections
21:09:38 [ed]
PD: sounds like a lot of work
21:10:03 [ed]
... there are too many dependencies in the tests
21:10:31 [ed]
DS: we could categorize the tests, renaming is one thing
21:12:08 [ed]
ED: renaming tests in cvs, not a great idea, loses history
21:12:41 [ed]
... would love to move to more modern version control system though
21:13:34 [ed]
PD: beauty of the web website has some great svg examples
21:15:12 [pdengler]
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21:15:36 [pdengler]
http://www.beautyoftheweb.com/
21:17:47 [pdengler]
http://www.thekillersmusic.com/HTML5#tour-browse
21:18:13 [karl]
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21:20:19 [pdengler]
http://www.skybeautiful.com/
21:23:42 [ed]
topic: feColorRamp
21:24:26 [shepazu]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Oct/0031.html
21:25:32 [ed]
ED: sounds a bit like feComponentTransfer
21:26:10 [ed]
TB: this is indexed colors
21:26:58 [ed]
PD: let's put it in the issue tracker
21:27:33 [ed]
DS: i'd like to cut out all but one color channel
21:27:43 [ed]
... e.g take away all color except blue
21:27:55 [ed]
... is that doable?
21:28:04 [ed]
PD: is that different from masking?
21:28:36 [ed]
DS: don't know
21:31:36 [tbah]
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21:31:52 [Zakim]
- +39.537.7.aaaa
21:31:55 [Zakim]
-ed
21:32:16 [Zakim]
-??P0
21:33:38 [ed]
trackbot, make minutes
21:33:38 [trackbot]
Sorry, ed, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
21:33:45 [ed]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:33:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html ed
21:36:52 [ed]
regrets: CL
21:36:56 [ed]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:36:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html ed
21:37:05 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
21:37:14 [ed]
chair: ed
21:37:18 [Zakim]
-Shepazu
21:37:19 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()4:00PM has ended
21:37:20 [ed]
RRSAgent, make minutes
21:37:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html ed
21:37:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], ed, +39.537.7.aaaa, Shepazu, [IPcaller]
21:37:40 [ed]
trackbot, end telcon
21:37:40 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
21:37:40 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
21:37:41 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
21:37:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html trackbot
21:37:42 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
21:37:42 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items