20:00:33 RRSAgent has joined #svg 20:00:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-irc 20:00:35 RRSAgent, make logs public 20:00:35 Zakim has joined #svg 20:00:37 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 20:00:37 ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()4:00PM already started 20:00:38 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 20:00:38 Date: 05 October 2010 20:01:08 +??P13 20:01:19 Zakim, ??P13 is me 20:01:19 +ed; got it 20:02:08 + +39.537.7.aaaa 20:05:24 +Shepazu 20:07:46 topic: ISSUE-2353 20:07:57 ISSUE-2353? 20:07:57 ISSUE-2353 -- Last Call Comment: Clarify coordinates for feImage. -- raised 20:07:57 http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2353 20:08:22 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-svg-editors/2010Oct/0011.html 20:09:13 http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/filters.html#feImageElement 20:14:05 topic: SVG Integration 20:14:10 scribeNick: ed 20:14:44 DS: AG updated the tables, some minor bugs but it's good enough as a starting point 20:14:58 ... added elements, attributes and properties into SVGIntegration 20:15:31 ...and filed a bug with HTML5 to not whitelist some attributes and elements but rather to refer to SVG Integration 20:16:20 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10965 20:16:44 ... we've discussed this concern before 20:17:58 ... HTML5 will be contemporary with SVG2 20:18:16 ... need to collect all attributes and elements from all specs 20:19:13 ... i've outlined an algorithm for dealing with mixed-case 20:19:24 ... it's well established 20:19:28 ...in unicode 20:19:44 PD: that's lowercasing everything, right? 20:21:20 PD: could you forward-compatible this, such that elements automatically work? 20:21:46 ... can we skip the tables? 20:22:26 DS: casematching is an issue, most authors don't care, but xml does 20:22:35 ... but svg in html isn't xml anymore 20:22:54 ... could consider it as two serializations 20:23:11 ... or we could make schema that allows both 20:23:19 ... not sure it's worth it 20:23:54 ... though if we think people will screw up casing 20:24:36 ... have seen people getting 'viewBox' wrong, it has a capital B, i've seen 'viewbox' many times 20:25:39 PD: don't buy your xslt argument, if you want to use that you make sure you have valid xml 20:27:21 DS: we'll face similar issues with CSS properties, where properties are shared 20:27:42 ... e.g with lowercasing case-sensitive values 20:28:52 PD: there are technolgies that were done in svg first, but which are now moving into the html5 space 20:29:08 ... things that aren't necessarily bound to vector graphics 20:29:31 DS: we should try to make features maximally useful to the web languages 20:31:08 ... svg didn't define the xml format, wouldn't mind if there was a similar effort to make xml-like format that allows error-correction as html5 does, such that we get case-insensitivty, leaving off attribute quotemarks 20:31:42 ... maybe there should be a more forgiving parser for xml 20:32:13 ... in the svg2 timeframe, we need to resolve the case sensititvy 20:33:29 PD: we need to take a stand on strict xml vs looser syntax 20:33:56 ... it's the most important topic 20:35:03 DS: PD you're writing up a whitepaper for tpac? 20:35:31 PD: more of a gathering of thoughts 20:35:45 ...in progress, trying to get it ready before tpac 20:35:50 ...to get feedback on it 20:35:59 DS: as a starting position that would be useful 20:37:31 karl has joined #svg 20:38:28 PD: we need to find our position, xml or not 20:38:50 DS: the goal is to adopt svg, not particulary xml 20:39:03 ...the case sensitityv is an obstacle 20:39:26 PD: people are likely going to learn svg from the html perspective 20:39:44 ... they're doing css transforms, not svg transforms 20:41:56 +[IPcaller] 20:42:02 DS: we should put a high priority on filters, and transforms 20:42:06 -[IPcaller] 20:42:11 ...anything we are going to be sharing 20:42:43 +[IPcaller] 20:43:13 -[IPcaller] 20:43:50 +??P0 20:44:08 Zakim: ++P0 is me 20:44:16 Zakim: ??P0 is me 20:45:49 DS: how do we make it as easy as possible for people to use svg? with the ideoms they're already familiar with 20:45:59 ...PD said that he thinks this is urgent 20:50:52 heycam has joined #svg 20:55:31 topic: new zeeland f2f 20:55:40 PD: when's that? 20:55:50 DS: late february 20:56:28 ED: JW do you have any more details? 20:56:43 JW: need to narrow down the dates 20:57:02 DS: could you send out an email? 20:57:07 JW: ok 20:58:53 DS: PD will you be able to go? 20:59:12 PD: will check 21:00:38 topic: testsuite 21:01:08 PD: how do we get the microsoft tests accepted by the wg? 21:01:47 ED: get them reviewed by people on the group, know it's hard and people are pressed for time and so on 21:02:33 PD: we are working on categorizing the tests better, to say that the users can code to particular modules 21:03:17 ... we need to get the message across that svg is ready for primetime 21:04:15 DS: when i did presentations filters is the thing that excites people the most 21:04:30 ... maybe it will come to be seen as a css feature though 21:04:45 ... it's still percieved as an svg feature 21:05:15 ... we might start talking about reorganization, functionality sets 21:06:56 ... we're doing a report on the testsuite, on tests that we think are broken 21:07:18 ... some tests are using features like declarative animation 21:07:40 ... our proposal would be to make the tests more finegrained 21:07:49 ... the test naming 21:08:09 DS: an alternative route... a dependency chain for each spec 21:08:22 ... for each test what part of the spec is that test testing 21:08:51 ... in terms of organizing the tests we should add metadata to say what dependencies the test has 21:09:29 ... so if you have filters in a markers test, link to those sections 21:09:38 PD: sounds like a lot of work 21:10:03 ... there are too many dependencies in the tests 21:10:31 DS: we could categorize the tests, renaming is one thing 21:12:08 ED: renaming tests in cvs, not a great idea, loses history 21:12:41 ... would love to move to more modern version control system though 21:13:34 PD: beauty of the web website has some great svg examples 21:15:12 pdengler has joined #svg 21:15:36 http://www.beautyoftheweb.com/ 21:17:47 http://www.thekillersmusic.com/HTML5#tour-browse 21:18:13 karl has joined #svg 21:20:19 http://www.skybeautiful.com/ 21:23:42 topic: feColorRamp 21:24:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Oct/0031.html 21:25:32 ED: sounds a bit like feComponentTransfer 21:26:10 TB: this is indexed colors 21:26:58 PD: let's put it in the issue tracker 21:27:33 DS: i'd like to cut out all but one color channel 21:27:43 ... e.g take away all color except blue 21:27:55 ... is that doable? 21:28:04 PD: is that different from masking? 21:28:36 DS: don't know 21:31:36 tbah has joined #svg 21:31:52 - +39.537.7.aaaa 21:31:55 -ed 21:32:16 -??P0 21:33:38 trackbot, make minutes 21:33:38 Sorry, ed, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help 21:33:45 RRSAgent, make minutes 21:33:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html ed 21:36:52 regrets: CL 21:36:56 RRSAgent, make minutes 21:36:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html ed 21:37:05 -[Microsoft] 21:37:14 chair: ed 21:37:18 -Shepazu 21:37:19 GA_SVGWG()4:00PM has ended 21:37:20 RRSAgent, make minutes 21:37:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html ed 21:37:21 Attendees were [Microsoft], ed, +39.537.7.aaaa, Shepazu, [IPcaller] 21:37:40 trackbot, end telcon 21:37:40 Zakim, list attendees 21:37:40 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 21:37:41 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 21:37:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-svg-minutes.html trackbot 21:37:42 RRSAgent, bye 21:37:42 I see no action items