IRC log of mediaann on 2010-10-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

10:53:19 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
10:53:19 [RRSAgent]
logging to
10:53:25 [wbailer]
zakim, this will be mawg
10:53:25 [Zakim]
ok, wbailer; I see IA_MAWG()7:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
10:55:22 [shepazu]
shepazu has joined #mediaann
10:56:11 [shepazu]
hi, tmichel, I've sent in my responses, and I can join the MAWG telcon today (in a few minutes, right?)
10:57:20 [shepazu]
10:57:27 [shepazu]
Zakim, code?
10:57:27 [Zakim]
the conference code is 6294 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+ tel:+44.203.318.0479), shepazu
10:58:03 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()7:00AM has now started
10:58:10 [Zakim]
10:58:32 [daniel]
daniel has joined #mediaann
11:00:26 [Zakim]
11:00:40 [Zakim]
11:00:55 [joakim]
joakim has joined #mediaann
11:02:01 [joakim]
11:02:14 [joakim]
11:02:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.201.807.aaaa
11:02:34 [Zakim]
+ +39.538.5.aabb
11:02:46 [wbailer]
scribenick: wbailer
11:02:53 [wbailer]
topic: previous minutes
11:02:58 [wbailer]
11:03:02 [tmichel]
zakim, who is here
11:03:02 [Zakim]
tmichel, you need to end that query with '?'
11:03:04 [wbailer]
topic: next meeting
11:03:11 [wbailer]
schedules for oct. 12
11:03:16 [tmichel]
zakim, who is here?
11:03:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, joakim, wbailer, +1.201.807.aaaa, +39.538.5.aabb
11:03:18 [Zakim]
On IRC I see joakim, daniel, shepazu, RRSAgent, Zakim, wbailer, tmichel, trackbot
11:03:29 [wbailer]
chair: joakim
11:03:33 [tmichel]
Hello Doug
11:03:52 [wbailer]
present: doug, thierry, joakim, werner
11:04:21 [wbailer]
regrets: florian, felix
11:04:28 [tmichel]
no one from the API team ...
11:04:30 [wbailer]
present+ daniel (irc)
11:04:37 [tmichel]
too bad we had Doug today ...
11:05:08 [wbailer]
rrsagent, make logs public
11:05:16 [wbailer]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:05:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wbailer
11:05:37 [wbailer]
regrets+ wonsuk
11:06:34 [wbailer]
meeting: MAWG Telco
11:06:40 [wbailer]
topic: comments from doug
11:06:43 [shepazu]
11:06:47 [vero]
vero has joined #mediaann
11:08:01 [wbailer]
doug: make sure to look at right version
11:08:12 [wbailer]
... previous comment still holds for the current version
11:08:41 [wbailer]
... don't think that browser vendors will implement all the 32 interfaces in the spec
11:08:45 [tmichel]
LC comment from Doug
11:08:48 [tmichel]
11:09:15 [wbailer]
doug: approach is very java-like, very verbose, strongly typed
11:09:46 [Zakim]
+ +31.20.598.aacc
11:10:13 [vero]
zakim, +31.20.598.aacc is me
11:10:13 [Zakim]
+vero; got it
11:10:22 [wbailer]
... same solution as proposed at last tpac an even before group started: only 1 or 2 methods only for getting metadata
11:10:32 [wbailer]
... generic methods instead of typed interfaces
11:10:36 [tmichel]
should have only one ot two methods allowing to get the metadata generecly
11:10:44 [wbailer]
present+ veronique
11:12:20 [wbailer]
doug: there is generic getProperty, but different interfaces for return types
11:13:40 [tmichel]
doug: what is the goal of all these interfaces ?
11:14:51 [tmichel]
Doug: I was confused, with earlier draft. But now it seems fine.
11:15:08 [wbailer]
doug: specific return types are not necessary
11:15:42 [wbailer]
... to get data in a generic way will not work with strongly typed return types
11:16:17 [wbailer]
... it's more java and not usual for javascript developers used to json structures
11:16:24 [wbailer]
... could be name value pairs
11:16:49 [wbailer]
... should not be described as interfaces
11:17:00 [wbailer]
... generic json style object should be the goal
11:18:09 [wbailer]
doug: dicussion on filtering results at last tpac
11:18:39 [wbailer]
... eg getting all titles, filter for subtitles, episode titles etc
11:19:07 [wbailer]
... or filter for certain format
11:19:51 [wbailer]
... not sure how to do that with a generic array
11:20:11 [wbailer]
doug: document states its for both client and server side use
11:20:29 [wbailer]
... not clear how it could be used on a server
11:20:49 [wbailer]
joakim: api exposed as web service, to be called from client
11:21:01 [wbailer]
doug: shared ontology is useful
11:21:20 [wbailer]
... not sure if designing for both client and server is good approach
11:21:24 [wbailer]
... focus on client
11:21:37 [wbailer]
... metadata for media file can be remote
11:21:53 [wbailer]
doug: important to clarify what is meant by the interfaces
11:22:35 [wbailer]
... should clarify that people are not expected to implemented multiple different interfaces
11:22:47 [wbailer]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:22:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wbailer
11:23:07 [wbailer]
joakim: there are 3 questions:
11:23:12 [wbailer]
1. what is meant by interfaces
11:23:23 [wbailer]
2. less strong typing of return types
11:23:34 [wbailer]
3. filtering results by subproperties
11:24:06 [wbailer]
doug: if you do not talk about interfaces, the question of whether all need to be implemented disappears
11:24:43 [wbailer]
... if application supports ontology, it should be possible to retrieve all the values
11:25:03 [wbailer]
... are there properties that there are more problematic than others?
11:27:10 [wbailer]
joakim: here is an example for title in
11:27:23 [wbailer]
... returning a specific subtype of title
11:29:08 [wbailer]
doug: json format as return format would make things easier to understand
11:29:24 [wbailer]
... need to look more closely to this
11:29:34 [wbailer]
joakim: could you propose an example?
11:30:00 [wbailer]
doug: json looks ok, but maybe not with a more complex example
11:30:18 [wbailer]
... makes more sense to have a json style repsonse format
11:34:49 [wbailer]
doug: plan to talk to Cameron McCormack about whether is the correct use of webidl for this purpose
11:35:43 [wbailer]
doug: scenario: mp3 with album title, song title, annotations in id3
11:36:01 [wbailer]
... plus annotations in xmp with the 2 titles
11:36:22 [wbailer]
... expect to get 4 titles, 2 from id3, 2 from xmp
11:36:52 [wbailer]
... expect to be able to filter to just get the xmp
11:37:48 [wbailer]
... in addition, get creation date of metadata and author of metadata
11:40:08 [wbailer]
doug: using same set of properties for meta-metadata seems to be solution
11:40:17 [wbailer]
needs to be described in the document
11:40:37 [wbailer]
doug: each piece has to contain where it comes from
11:41:04 [wbailer]
... either on the high-level structure or as a nested structure
11:41:33 [wbailer]
... on high-level, it would be useful to all titles and authors
11:42:00 [wbailer]
... but to filter by annotation, and not go down to specific properties and then filter
11:42:25 [wbailer]
doug: meta-metadata should be part of return data
11:45:02 [wbailer]
doug: rather than overloading getProperty, return values first and filter results
11:45:08 [Zakim]
11:45:15 [wbailer]
... append filters to narrow results
11:45:46 [joakim]
I was thrown out from zakim
11:46:01 [Zakim]
11:46:06 [wbailer]
doug: will draw up a few scenarios, and put together what I expect the api to return
11:47:05 [wbailer]
joakim: people at sony ericsson were interested in having provenance of metadata
11:48:14 [wbailer]
doug: would like to talk to browser vendors more deeply, not sure if possible in time
11:48:34 [wbailer]
... currently not sure that all common use case are covered by the api
11:49:54 [wbailer]
doug: will draw up scenario and wg to decide whether its covered by the spec
11:51:38 [wbailer]
thierry: set up specific telecon with api doc editors and doug at a time more convenient for doug
11:52:18 [wbailer]
... possible time tuesday 13:00 utc (15:00 cest)
11:52:43 [Zakim]
11:53:22 [wbailer]
joakim: anything urgent about LC status?
11:53:41 [wbailer]
thierry: thought about scheduling 2nd LC, in order to manage before tpac
11:53:50 [wbailer]
... seems very difficult to achieve
11:54:04 [wbailer]
... goal should be to finalise docs a tpac
11:54:08 [daniel]
I think we may can not catch up the proposed schedule. There are still so many open issues...
11:54:10 [wbailer]
... to avoid 3rd LC
11:54:45 [wbailer]
thierry: before tpac we should have a good idea what has already implemented from lc comments
11:54:56 [wbailer]
... some commenters want to see editors draft
11:55:41 [wbailer]
rrsagent, draft minutes
11:55:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wbailer
11:56:08 [tmichel]
LC Comments
11:56:08 [tmichel]
11:56:08 [tmichel]
Agreed: Commenter approved disposition
11:56:08 [tmichel]
11:56:08 [tmichel]
-- LC Comment -2389 on Media Ontology spec
11:56:09 [tmichel]
-- LC Comment -2403 on Media Ontology spec
11:56:11 [tmichel]
-- LC Comment -2404 on Media Ontology spec
11:56:13 [tmichel]
-- LC Comment -2410 on Media API spec Jo Rabin
11:56:15 [tmichel]
On going:
11:56:17 [tmichel]
11:56:19 [tmichel]
* LC Comment -2394 on Media API spec (timeless :need to read more-travelling)
11:56:21 [tmichel]
** LC Comment -2419 on Media API spec (need to respond to unsolved issues)
11:56:23 [tmichel]
11:56:25 [tmichel]
** LC Comment -2418 on Media Ontology spec (need to respond to 3 unsolved issues) see to do
11:56:27 [tmichel]
11:56:29 [tmichel]
* LC Comment -2393 on Media Ontology spec (deasagree for speex or VP8 and codec)
11:56:31 [tmichel]
* LC Comment -2395 on Media API spec(deasagree for speex or VP8 and codec)
11:56:33 [tmichel]
* LC Comment -2394 on Media API spec (Doug)
11:56:37 [tmichel]
11:56:39 [tmichel]
Doug kind of agree ... should make this statement more clear.
11:56:41 [tmichel]
LC Comment -2405 on Media Ontology spec (Doug)
11:56:43 [tmichel]
satisfied by our response but would like to see it in the spec.
11:56:45 [tmichel]
Confused by your solution around the "ma" prefix, and would like to
11:56:47 [tmichel]
see it in writing.
11:56:49 [tmichel]
11:56:50 [wbailer]
thierry: we have comments with disagreement for commenters
11:56:51 [tmichel]
No response yet:
11:56:53 [tmichel]
11:56:55 [tmichel]
LC Comment -2398 on Media Ontology spec (jose)
11:56:57 [tmichel]
LC Comment -2411 on Media Ontology spec (Karen)
11:56:59 [tmichel]
LC Comment -2414 on Media Ontology spec (Pling)
11:57:08 [wbailer]
... shall we ask person who drafted original repsonse to look into this?
11:59:10 [wbailer]
action: chris to respond to unsolved issues of lc 2419
11:59:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-318 - Respond to unsolved issues of lc 2419 [on Chris Poppe - due 2010-10-12].
12:00:01 [wbailer]
action: thierry to draft repsonse to open issues in lc 2395
12:00:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-319 - Draft repsonse to open issues in lc 2395 [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].
12:00:46 [wbailer]
action: veronique to draft response for open issues in lc 2418
12:00:47 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - veronique
12:01:37 [wbailer]
action: thierry to draft repsonse for open issues in lc 2392
12:01:37 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-321 - Draft repsonse for open issues in lc 2392 [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].
12:02:39 [wbailer]
veronique: update of 2405 needs to be done after syntax update
12:03:02 [wbailer]
regrets+ raphael
12:03:29 [wbailer]
veronique: also update on normative/non-normative is required (action in joakim)
12:04:21 [wbailer]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:04:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wbailer
12:04:48 [wbailer]
joakim: next week normal telecon, then api telecom
12:05:04 [wbailer]
action: joakim to send mail to api doc editors to attend call next week
12:05:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-322 - Send mail to api doc editors to attend call next week [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2010-10-12].
12:05:17 [wbailer]
action: thierry to book telecon bridge for api call
12:05:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-323 - Book telecon bridge for api call [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].
12:05:23 [Zakim]
12:05:26 [Zakim]
- +39.538.5.aabb
12:05:27 [Zakim]
- +1.201.807.aaaa
12:05:28 [wbailer]
12:05:29 [Zakim]
12:05:30 [Zakim]
12:05:31 [Zakim]
IA_MAWG()7:00AM has ended
12:05:33 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doug_Schepers, joakim, wbailer, +1.201.807.aaaa, +39.538.5.aabb, vero
12:05:34 [wbailer]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:05:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wbailer
13:27:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #mediaann
14:04:33 [tmichel]
tmichel has joined #mediaann