10:53:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mediaann
10:53:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-irc
10:53:25 <wbailer> zakim, this will be mawg
10:53:25 <Zakim> ok, wbailer; I see IA_MAWG()7:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
10:55:22 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #mediaann
10:56:11 <shepazu> hi, tmichel, I've sent in my responses, and I can join the MAWG telcon today (in a few minutes, right?)
10:57:20 <shepazu> tmichel?
10:57:27 <shepazu> Zakim, code?
10:57:27 <Zakim> the conference code is 6294 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), shepazu
10:58:03 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()7:00AM has now started
10:58:10 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
10:58:32 <daniel> daniel has joined #mediaann
11:00:26 <Zakim> +joakim
11:00:40 <Zakim> +wbailer
11:00:55 <joakim> joakim has joined #mediaann
11:02:01 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html
11:02:14 <joakim> http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-mediaann-minutes.html
11:02:25 <Zakim> + +1.201.807.aaaa
11:02:34 <Zakim> + +39.538.5.aabb
11:02:46 <wbailer> scribenick: wbailer
11:02:53 <wbailer> topic: previous minutes
11:02:58 <wbailer> accepted
11:03:02 <tmichel> zakim, who is here
11:03:02 <Zakim> tmichel, you need to end that query with '?'
11:03:04 <wbailer> topic: next meeting
11:03:11 <wbailer> schedules for oct. 12
11:03:16 <tmichel> zakim, who is here?
11:03:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, joakim, wbailer, +1.201.807.aaaa, +39.538.5.aabb
11:03:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see joakim, daniel, shepazu, RRSAgent, Zakim, wbailer, tmichel, trackbot
11:03:29 <wbailer> chair: joakim
11:03:33 <tmichel> Hello Doug
11:03:52 <wbailer> present: doug, thierry, joakim, werner
11:04:21 <wbailer> regrets: florian, felix
11:04:28 <tmichel> no one from the API team ...
11:04:30 <wbailer> present+ daniel (irc)
11:04:37 <tmichel> too bad we had Doug today ...
11:05:08 <wbailer> rrsagent, make logs public
11:05:16 <wbailer> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:05:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer
11:05:37 <wbailer> regrets+ wonsuk
11:06:34 <wbailer> meeting: MAWG Telco
11:06:40 <wbailer> topic: comments from doug
11:06:43 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20100608/
11:06:47 <vero> vero has joined #mediaann
11:08:01 <wbailer> doug: make sure to look at right version
11:08:12 <wbailer> ... previous comment still holds for the current version
11:08:41 <wbailer> ... don't think that browser vendors will implement all the 32 interfaces in the spec
11:08:45 <tmichel> LC comment from Doug 
11:08:48 <tmichel> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/42786/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20100608/2406
11:09:15 <wbailer> doug: approach is very java-like, very verbose, strongly typed
11:09:46 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aacc
11:10:13 <vero> zakim, +31.20.598.aacc is me
11:10:13 <Zakim> +vero; got it
11:10:22 <wbailer> ... same solution as proposed at last tpac an even before group started: only 1 or 2 methods only for getting metadata
11:10:32 <wbailer> ... generic methods instead of typed interfaces
11:10:36 <tmichel> should have only one ot two methods allowing to get the metadata generecly
11:10:44 <wbailer> present+ veronique
11:12:20 <wbailer> doug: there is generic getProperty, but different interfaces for return types
11:13:40 <tmichel> doug: what is the goal of all these interfaces ?
11:14:51 <tmichel> Doug: I was confused, with earlier draft. But now it seems fine.
11:15:08 <wbailer> doug: specific return types are not necessary
11:15:42 <wbailer> ... to get data in a generic way will not work with strongly typed return types
11:16:17 <wbailer> ... it's more java and not usual for javascript developers used to json structures
11:16:24 <wbailer> ... could be name value pairs
11:16:49 <wbailer> ... should not be described as interfaces
11:17:00 <wbailer> ... generic json style object should be the goal
11:18:09 <wbailer> doug: dicussion on filtering results at last tpac
11:18:39 <wbailer> ... eg getting all titles, filter for subtitles, episode titles etc
11:19:07 <wbailer> ... or filter for certain format
11:19:51 <wbailer> ... not sure how to do that with a generic array
11:20:11 <wbailer> doug: document states its for both client and server side use
11:20:29 <wbailer> ... not clear how it could be used on a server
11:20:49 <wbailer> joakim: api exposed as web service, to be called from client
11:21:01 <wbailer> doug: shared ontology is useful
11:21:20 <wbailer> ... not sure if designing for both client and server is good approach
11:21:24 <wbailer> ... focus on client
11:21:37 <wbailer> ... metadata for media file can be remote
11:21:53 <wbailer> doug: important to clarify what is meant by the interfaces
11:22:35 <wbailer> ... should clarify that people are not expected to implemented multiple different interfaces
11:22:47 <wbailer> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:22:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer
11:23:07 <wbailer> joakim: there are 3 questions:
11:23:12 <wbailer> 1. what is meant by interfaces
11:23:23 <wbailer> 2. less strong typing of return types
11:23:34 <wbailer> 3. filtering results by subproperties
11:24:06 <wbailer> doug: if you do not talk about interfaces, the question of whether all need to be implemented disappears
11:24:43 <wbailer> ... if application supports ontology, it should be possible to retrieve all the values
11:25:03 <wbailer> ... are there properties that there are more problematic than others?
11:27:10 <wbailer> joakim: here is an example for title in 3.5.2.1
11:27:23 <wbailer> ... returning a specific subtype of title
11:29:08 <wbailer> doug: json format as return format would make things easier to understand
11:29:24 <wbailer> ... need to look more closely to this
11:29:34 <wbailer> joakim: could you propose an example?
11:30:00 <wbailer> doug: json looks ok, but maybe not with a more complex example
11:30:18 <wbailer> ... makes more sense to have a json style repsonse format
11:34:49 <wbailer> doug: plan to talk to Cameron McCormack about whether is the correct use of webidl for this purpose
11:35:43 <wbailer> doug: scenario: mp3 with album title, song title, annotations in id3
11:36:01 <wbailer> ... plus annotations in xmp with the 2 titles
11:36:22 <wbailer> ... expect to get 4 titles, 2 from id3, 2 from xmp
11:36:52 <wbailer> ... expect to be able to filter to just get the xmp
11:37:48 <wbailer> ... in addition, get creation date of metadata and author of metadata
11:40:08 <wbailer> doug: using same set of properties for meta-metadata seems to be solution
11:40:17 <wbailer> needs to be described in the document
11:40:37 <wbailer> doug: each piece has to contain where it comes from
11:41:04 <wbailer> ... either on the high-level structure or as a nested structure
11:41:33 <wbailer> ... on high-level, it would be useful to all titles and authors
11:42:00 <wbailer> ... but to filter by annotation, and not go down to specific properties and then filter
11:42:25 <wbailer> doug: meta-metadata should be part of return data
11:45:02 <wbailer> doug: rather than overloading getProperty, return values first and filter results
11:45:08 <Zakim> -joakim
11:45:15 <wbailer> ... append filters to narrow results
11:45:46 <joakim> I was thrown out from zakim
11:46:01 <Zakim> +joakim
11:46:06 <wbailer> doug: will draw up a few scenarios, and put together what I expect the api to return
11:47:05 <wbailer> joakim: people at sony ericsson were interested in having provenance of metadata
11:48:14 <wbailer> doug: would like to talk to browser vendors more deeply, not sure if possible in time
11:48:34 <wbailer> ... currently not sure that all common use case are covered by the api
11:49:54 <wbailer> doug: will draw up scenario and wg to decide whether its covered by the spec
11:51:38 <wbailer> thierry: set up specific telecon with api doc editors and doug at a time more convenient for doug
11:52:18 <wbailer> ... possible time tuesday 13:00 utc (15:00 cest)
11:52:43 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
11:53:22 <wbailer> joakim: anything urgent about LC status?
11:53:41 <wbailer> thierry: thought about scheduling 2nd LC, in order to manage before tpac
11:53:50 <wbailer> ... seems very difficult to achieve
11:54:04 <wbailer> ... goal should be to finalise docs a tpac
11:54:08 <daniel> I think we may can not catch up the proposed schedule. There are still so many open issues...
11:54:10 <wbailer> ... to avoid 3rd LC
11:54:45 <wbailer> thierry: before tpac we should have a good idea what has already implemented from lc comments
11:54:56 <wbailer> ... some commenters want to see editors draft
11:55:41 <wbailer> rrsagent, draft minutes
11:55:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer
11:56:08 <tmichel> LC Comments
11:56:08 <tmichel> =====
11:56:08 <tmichel> Agreed: Commenter approved disposition
11:56:08 <tmichel> ******
11:56:08 <tmichel> -- LC Comment -2389 on Media Ontology spec
11:56:09 <tmichel> -- LC Comment -2403 on Media Ontology spec
11:56:11 <tmichel> -- LC Comment -2404 on Media Ontology spec
11:56:13 <tmichel> -- LC Comment -2410 on Media API spec Jo Rabin 
11:56:15 <tmichel> On going:
11:56:17 <tmichel> *********
11:56:19 <tmichel> * LC Comment -2394 on Media API spec (timeless :need to read more-travelling)
11:56:21 <tmichel> ** LC Comment -2419 on Media API spec (need to respond to unsolved issues)
11:56:23 <tmichel> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0243.html
11:56:25 <tmichel> ** LC Comment -2418 on Media Ontology spec (need to respond to 3 unsolved issues) see to do
11:56:27 <tmichel> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Sep/0242.html
11:56:29 <tmichel> * LC Comment -2393 on Media Ontology spec (deasagree for speex or VP8 and codec)
11:56:31 <tmichel> * LC Comment -2395 on Media API spec(deasagree for speex or VP8 and codec)
11:56:33 <tmichel> * LC Comment -2394 on Media API spec (Doug)
11:56:37 <tmichel> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Oct/0020.html
11:56:39 <tmichel> Doug kind of agree ... should make this statement more clear.
11:56:41 <tmichel> LC Comment -2405 on Media Ontology spec (Doug)
11:56:43 <tmichel> satisfied by our response but would like to see it in the spec.
11:56:45 <tmichel> Confused by your solution around the "ma" prefix, and would like to 
11:56:47 <tmichel> see it in writing. 
11:56:49 <tmichel> ---------
11:56:50 <wbailer> thierry: we have comments with disagreement for commenters
11:56:51 <tmichel> No response yet:
11:56:53 <tmichel> ************
11:56:55 <tmichel> LC Comment -2398 on Media Ontology spec (jose)
11:56:57 <tmichel> LC Comment -2411 on Media Ontology spec (Karen)
11:56:59 <tmichel> LC Comment -2414 on Media Ontology spec (Pling)
11:57:08 <wbailer> ... shall we ask person who drafted original repsonse to look into this?
11:59:10 <wbailer> action: chris to respond to unsolved issues of lc 2419
11:59:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-318 - Respond to unsolved issues of lc 2419 [on Chris Poppe - due 2010-10-12].
12:00:01 <wbailer> action: thierry to draft repsonse to open issues in  lc 2395
12:00:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-319 - Draft repsonse to open issues in  lc 2395 [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].
12:00:46 <wbailer> action: veronique to draft response for open issues in lc 2418
12:00:47 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - veronique
12:01:37 <wbailer> action: thierry to draft repsonse for open issues in lc 2392
12:01:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-321 - Draft repsonse for open issues in lc 2392 [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].
12:02:39 <wbailer> veronique: update of 2405 needs to be done after syntax update
12:03:02 <wbailer> regrets+ raphael
12:03:29 <wbailer> veronique: also update on normative/non-normative is required (action in joakim)
12:04:21 <wbailer> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:04:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer
12:04:48 <wbailer> joakim: next week normal telecon, then api telecom
12:05:04 <wbailer> action: joakim to send mail to api doc editors to attend call next week
12:05:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-322 - Send mail to api doc editors to attend call next week [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2010-10-12].
12:05:17 <wbailer> action: thierry to book telecon bridge for api call
12:05:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-323 - Book telecon bridge for api call [on Thierry Michel - due 2010-10-12].
12:05:23 <Zakim> -vero
12:05:26 <Zakim> - +39.538.5.aabb
12:05:27 <Zakim> - +1.201.807.aaaa
12:05:28 <wbailer> [adjourned]
12:05:29 <Zakim> -wbailer
12:05:30 <Zakim> -joakim
12:05:31 <Zakim> IA_MAWG()7:00AM has ended
12:05:33 <Zakim> Attendees were Doug_Schepers, joakim, wbailer, +1.201.807.aaaa, +39.538.5.aabb, vero
12:05:34 <wbailer> rrsagent, draft minutes
12:05:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/10/05-mediaann-minutes.html wbailer
13:27:59 <Zakim> Zakim has left #mediaann
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