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<trackbot> Date: 01 October 2010
i think it's interesting
good use of provenance
<Luc> Am I right to say this is a use case for provenance?
<Jose_> looks like that!
yep
<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Recommendations_for_scenarios
+q
<Luc> are they in need of a standard?
<JimM> This seems to require that provenance be signable (Recommendation 2) and making sure that the vocabulary connecting people and attributes is consistent (ala OPM profiles)
<JimM> Sounds like Akenti - LBNL work to let people present certs from multiple authorities to prove different required attributes...
<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/What_Is_Provenance
+q
<JimM> +q
<Luc> +q
<ssahoo2> Focus on a particular application domain?
<JimM> -q
Provenance is a record of the sources of information, including entities and processes, involving in producing or delivering an artifact.
<YolandaGil> provenance of an artifact is a record that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that artifact
that's pretty good
<Luc> I like it too
<JimM> (producing and delivering suggest intent and may not cover natural events - the lightning produced/delivered a broken tree)
http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/18176/
<Irini> with artifact we mean piece of data or piece of information -- I think we should be careful with the term artifact
<Christine> +1 for pgroth defn but note that people outside provenance may not know what is meant by artifact
<Luc> One comment though: some argue that the word "process" is too vague
<YolandaGil> provenance of an artifact is a record with metadata that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that artifact
+1 for resource
<JimM> events might be better than processes?
very webby
<Jose_> much too provenance-specific lexicon can prevent people outside the community to understand the definition
<YolandaGil> provenance of a web resource is a record with metadata that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that web resource
<Luc> i am not keen on event.
<Christine> +1 Jose
<Irini> I am not keen on event. And metadata
provenance of a web resource is a metadata record that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that web resource
-1 on event
:-)
<Luc> -1 on metadata
<Jose_> yeah, "event" has too many connotations
<Christine> -1 metadata too
<Irini> -1 on metadata
how do you spell that?
<ssahoo2> provenience
<Luc> OED says provenience=provenance!
yeah
<ssahoo2> provenance of a resource is a record of contextual metadata that captures entities and processes that influence the current state of a resource
<Irini> +1 for Luc
<Jose_> agreed
<YolandaGil> provenance of a web resource is a record that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that web resource
<ssahoo2> I think producing and delivering is very specific - it should incorporate any influence
web resource = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_(Web)
Provenance is documentation of the set of artifacts, processes, and agents that have caused a artifact to be, and of the contexts of these entities. Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducability and assertions of provenance can themselves become important records with their own provenance
<JimM> Provenance is documentation of the set of artifacts, processes, and agents that have caused a artifact to be, and of the contexts of these entities. Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducability and assertions of provenance can themselves become important records with their own provenance.
<ssahoo2> I agree with Jim
<YolandaGil> Jim proposes: Provenance is a description of how things came to be, and how they came to be in the state they are in today. Statements about provenance can themselves be considered to have provenance.
<JimM> this was a synthesis definition
<Christine> + 1 for an additional plain english defn like the one set out by Yolanda: Jim proposes
<JimM> involved is fine with me
<Jose_> I like "process" :-)
<ssahoo2> +1 for process
<Christine> + describes
<Christine> sorry Zakim
<Christine> +1 describes
<Irini> in the web, do we qualify a copying action that a user is doing as a process?
<ssahoo2> Irini, its a modeling decision - depends on the requirements of your application
i would think so
copying is a process
<JimM> but we want web provenance of non-web things...
<ssahoo2> In the linked open data, physical world entities are modeled as resources
but resource = what the w3c means by a resource
<JimM> resource is OK
<YolandaGil> A definition of web provenance: provenance of a web resource is a record that describes entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that web resource. Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducibility. Provenance assertions are a form of metadata and can themselves become important records with their own provenance.
<Jose_> "have an effect on"?
effect implies cause
<JimM> influencing the existence and state of a resource?
and we are running away from causality
<Luc> That's why "artifact" had some merit, it was resource on the web or physical entity
<YolandaGil> A definition of web provenance: provenance of a resource is a record that describes entities and processes involved in producing and delivering or otherwise influences that resource. Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducibility. Provenance assertions are a form of contextual metadata and can themselves become important records with their own provenance.
<ssahoo2> +1
<Christine> Thanks Yolanda!
<Jose_> the definition is becoming enthropic: bigger and bigger!
<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Final_Report_Draft
<YolandaGil> We'll discuss the final report draft next week
<YolandaGil> trackbot, end telcon
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