W3C

- DRAFT -

Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference

01 Oct 2010

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
+1.217.417.aaaa, +30281039aabb, Irini, +44.238.059.aacc, +46.6.43.0.aadd, [ISI], +1.915.603.aaee, [IPcaller], +1.216.368.aaff
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
pgroth

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 01 October 2010

i think it's interesting

good use of provenance

<Luc> Am I right to say this is a use case for provenance?

<Jose_> looks like that!

yep

<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Recommendations_for_scenarios

+q

<Luc> are they in need of a standard?

<JimM> This seems to require that provenance be signable (Recommendation 2) and making sure that the vocabulary connecting people and attributes is consistent (ala OPM profiles)

<JimM> Sounds like Akenti - LBNL work to let people present certs from multiple authorities to prove different required attributes...

<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/What_Is_Provenance

+q

<JimM> +q

<Luc> +q

<ssahoo2> Focus on a particular application domain?

<JimM> -q

Provenance is a record of the sources of information, including entities and processes, involving in producing or delivering an artifact.

<YolandaGil> provenance of an artifact is a record that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that artifact

that's pretty good

<Luc> I like it too

<JimM> (producing and delivering suggest intent and may not cover natural events - the lightning produced/delivered a broken tree)

http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/18176/

<Irini> with artifact we mean piece of data or piece of information -- I think we should be careful with the term artifact

<Christine> +1 for pgroth defn but note that people outside provenance may not know what is meant by artifact

<Luc> One comment though: some argue that the word "process" is too vague

<YolandaGil> provenance of an artifact is a record with metadata that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that artifact

+1 for resource

<JimM> events might be better than processes?

very webby

<Jose_> much too provenance-specific lexicon can prevent people outside the community to understand the definition

<YolandaGil> provenance of a web resource is a record with metadata that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that web resource

<Luc> i am not keen on event.

<Christine> +1 Jose

<Irini> I am not keen on event. And metadata

provenance of a web resource is a metadata record that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that web resource

-1 on event

:-)

<Luc> -1 on metadata

<Jose_> yeah, "event" has too many connotations

<Christine> -1 metadata too

<Irini> -1 on metadata

how do you spell that?

<ssahoo2> provenience

<Luc> OED says provenience=provenance!

yeah

<ssahoo2> provenance of a resource is a record of contextual metadata that captures entities and processes that influence the current state of a resource

<Irini> +1 for Luc

<Jose_> agreed

<YolandaGil> provenance of a web resource is a record that captures entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that web resource

<ssahoo2> I think producing and delivering is very specific - it should incorporate any influence

web resource = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_(Web)

Provenance is documentation of the set of artifacts, processes, and agents that have caused a artifact to be, and of the contexts of these entities. Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducability and assertions of provenance can themselves become important records with their own provenance

<JimM> Provenance is documentation of the set of artifacts, processes, and agents that have caused a artifact to be, and of the contexts of these entities. Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducability and assertions of provenance can themselves become important records with their own provenance.

<ssahoo2> I agree with Jim

<YolandaGil> Jim proposes: Provenance is a description of how things came to be, and how they came to be in the state they are in today. Statements about provenance can themselves be considered to have provenance.

<JimM> this was a synthesis definition

<Christine> + 1 for an additional plain english defn like the one set out by Yolanda: Jim proposes

<JimM> involved is fine with me

<Jose_> I like "process" :-)

<ssahoo2> +1 for process

<Christine> + describes

<Christine> sorry Zakim

<Christine> +1 describes

<Irini> in the web, do we qualify a copying action that a user is doing as a process?

<ssahoo2> Irini, its a modeling decision - depends on the requirements of your application

i would think so

copying is a process

<JimM> but we want web provenance of non-web things...

<ssahoo2> In the linked open data, physical world entities are modeled as resources

but resource = what the w3c means by a resource

<JimM> resource is OK

<YolandaGil> A definition of web provenance: provenance of a web resource is a record that describes entities and processes involved in producing and delivering that web resource. Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducibility. Provenance assertions are a form of metadata and can themselves become important records with their own provenance.

<Jose_> "have an effect on"?

effect implies cause

<JimM> influencing the existence and state of a resource?

and we are running away from causality

<Luc> That's why "artifact" had some merit, it was resource on the web or physical entity

<YolandaGil> A definition of web provenance: provenance of a resource is a record that describes entities and processes involved in producing and delivering or otherwise influences that resource. Provenance provides a critical foundation for assessing authenticity, enabling trust, and allowing reproducibility. Provenance assertions are a form of contextual metadata and can themselves become important records with their own provenance.

<ssahoo2> +1

<Christine> Thanks Yolanda!

<Jose_> the definition is becoming enthropic: bigger and bigger!

<YolandaGil> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/Final_Report_Draft

<YolandaGil> We'll discuss the final report draft next week

<YolandaGil> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

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Present: +1.217.417.aaaa +30281039aabb Irini +44.238.059.aacc +46.6.43.0.aadd [ISI] +1.915.603.aaee [IPcaller] +1.216.368.aaff

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Found Date: 01 Oct 2010
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