User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

30 Sep 2010


See also: IRC log


Jeanne, Gregory_Rosmaita, sharper, kford, +1.617.325.aaaa, Kim_Patch, Hakkinen_Mark, Mark_Hakkinen, Harper_Simon, Ford_Kelly, Spellman_Jeanne, Rosmaita_Gregory, Greg_Lowney
Jim, Richards_Jan, Jan
Ford_Kelly, Allan_James


<trackbot> Date: 30 September 2010

<scribe> scribe: Harper_Simon

<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper

Date: Thursday, 30 September 2010

Time: 1:00-2:30 pm Boston Local Time, USA (18:00-19:30 UTC/GMT) http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html

Call-in: Zakim bridge at: +1-617-761-6200, code 82941# for UK use +44.203.318.0479 (London)

editor versions

Guidelines: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-UAAG20-20100920/

Implementing: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100920/

Public documents

Guidelines - http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-UAAG20-20100617/

Implementing - http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20100617/

-- Attendance survey: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20100707/

-- Scribe schedule and scribing help: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/scribing.html

-- Please monitor your open Action Items: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/open

-- Open Issues: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/open s updated documents

zakim: code?

<oedipus> minutes from HTML A11y TF telecon 2010-09-30 http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11y-minutes.html

HTML5 Concerns/Bugs

<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to ask if HTML5 can be addressed first

<oedipus> make @title a required attribute of FRAME and IFRAME http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10709

GR: Keyboard requirements approved by task force so logging as a bug
... JAs suggestion for @title requirement of FRAME and IFRAME - people not supportive - we need to take this bug on in bugzilla
... As issues get logged HTML5 can comment directly in the bug
... Also filing a number of other comprehensive bugs.
... After tomorrow no bugs will be logged as pre-last call bugs - but bugs already in (even if closed by the editor) will be pre-last call bugs
... will compile bug list and send to UA list

JS: will be back-up bug entry person if GR has systems failure before close of business Boston Time.

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/pf_requirements_revision

<kford> zakim close item 5

KP: Going directly to links - is this more of a UI issue?

GR: yes - would like to talk with KP more about it - GR could not convince people it is not a UA issue

JS: about what an other codes and what the UA does ie providing a numeric for each link is something the UA should do, not the content developer

GR: we can work together on this - KP agrees - post meeting (meeting) agreed

HTML 5 Media Group Request

<kford> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Media_Accessibility_Checklist#ka

KF: Media Group have asked us to review a document:

<oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist

KF: is it accurate if they say we don't have a direct corrolation 2) how important do we think this is?
... First req - provide an indication that descriptions are available and are active or nonactive
... they say that it is not required for UAAG conformance - we say it is required
... We don't use 'audio description' ...
... they have 130 entries which we need to review and give answers to
... Discussion - Logistics of doing this.
... Meeting arranged - JS: KF: MH:

<kford> 3.1.1 Identify Presence of Alternative Content: The user can have indicators rendered along with rendered elements that have alternative content (e.g. visual icons rendered in proximity of content that has short text alternatives, long descriptions, or captions). (Level A).

<mhakkinen> MH stepping away for a few mins

RESOLUTION: Meeting arranged - JS KF MH

Finish Writers Meeting Survey#4 - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100802-4/

3.6.3 Option Range Intent, Examples and Related Resources.


A 1/ C 1 / D 3

GL: 3.6.1 doesn't say anything about the range
... Should we combine the 2 sc's 3.6.1 + 3.6.3 - but many iffs

KP: what is the advantage of combining - how clear will it be?
... add 3.6.3 after 3.6.1

GL Combines this to be

<Greg> Here's the first draft of merging 3.6.3 into 3.6.1:

<Greg> 3.6.1 Configure Text: The user can globally set the following characteristics of visually rendered text content, overriding any specified by the author or user agent defaults (Level A):

<Greg> • (a) text scale (i.e., the general size of text) ,

<Greg> • (b) font family, and

<Greg> • (c) text color (i.e., foreground and background).

<Greg> The range of options for each text characteristic includes at least (Level A):

<Greg> • (a) the range offered by global preference settings supported by the operating environment (i.e configured though the Control Panel or System) utility, or

<Greg> • (b) if no such utility is available, the range supported by the conventional APIs of the operating environment for drawing text.

GL needs to be smoothed


RESOLUTION: GR: to complete 435 - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/435

<kford> Gregory going to combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3

KF: to accept GL's changes for beginning of intent for 3.6.3

<Greg> Propose rewriting beginning of Intent for 3.6.3 (which might be folded into 3.6.1) to read "Users need to able to access a wide range of font sizes, styles, colors, and other attributes in order to find the combination that works best for their particular needs. For example, some users want to increase font size to make text more legible, while other users want to reduce the font size to...

<Greg> ...decrease the need to scroll the content. "

<Greg> Note that I changed to from "visual needs" to "needs" because it's more general than just vision.

KF: Intent and examples also need to be merged in this case

<oedipus> KimPatch, you might be interested in a previous attempt to get direct access to links and form controls: http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/vicug/iaap/index.html

<Greg> What I just pasted in would replace the Intent for 3.6.1 and the first sentence of the intent of 3.6.3.

GL: JS could combine these two and then await GR's updates

<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3 using the minutes of the meeting of 30 September [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-453 - Combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3 using the minutes of the meeting of 30 September [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-10-07].

RESOLUTION: Jeanne to combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3 using the minutes of the meeting of 30 September

RESOLUTION: We will need to revisit 3.6.3 after GRs changes which will drive changes to the intent para

3.1.4 Rendering Alternative (Enhanced) Intent, Examples and Related Resources


<Greg> That is, changes to how the combined SC describes the required range of options will drive changes to the Intent paragraph.

Accept 1/ Changes 1 / Discuss 2

<Greg> My attempt to explain *why* this SC was needed, by changing the last sentence to: "The user may find different alternatives more useful or appropriate depending on the nature of the document and their task. By specifying which item(s) to render by default, and the order of the cascade of alternatives to render when the author failed to provide some types of alternatives, they can ensure that...

<Greg> ...the information presented to them makes their task as efficient as possible."

<oedipus> plus 1 to concept expressed by GL

<oedipus> GL = Greg Lowney, not guideline

KF: / GL Discussion regarding 3.1.2 (not about a cascade of types) 3.1.4 is about a cascade of types

<Greg> Kelly questions the title of "Rendering Alternative (Enhanced)", which was probably more appropriate before we changed the title of 3.1.2 or the like.

GL: Intent of 3.1.4 could clarify that it is extending 3.1.2 - providing additional / complex alternatives
... the sc's are not written in a simple form - more in a legal format

<kford> do you want me to call you gregory, if so e-mail my number

<Greg> The upshot of 3.1 is that you should be able to see at a glance which pieces of content have alternatives like alt text or longdesc (3.1.1) and click on an item to see which alternatives are available for it (3.3.3); they can also choose at least one alternative like alt text to be always displayed (3.1.2), but it’s recommended that they also be able to specify a cascade, like alt text if...

<Greg> ...it’s there, otherwise longdesc, otherwise, filename, etc.

<oedipus> thanks, kelly, but i need to let my phones recharge

<oedipus> FYI, since you mentioned longdesc, HTML5 lacks a verbose description mechanism HTML Bug 10853: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10853

KP: Discussion re the desire to create these short overviews - when should it be done?

RESOLUTION: add agenda item to next call so that we can run through a few of these - KP proposes GL and KP to thrash out a couple more ready for discussion next Thursday.

<kford> what was your question Simon?

<kford> I don't think we have a clear action yet.

<kford> Let's leave it open in the minutes for now.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to combine 3.6.1 and 3.6.3 using the minutes of the meeting of 30 September [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.135 (CVS log)
$Date: 2010/09/30 18:35:45 $

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Found Scribe: Harper_Simon
Found ScribeNick: sharper
Default Present: Jeanne, Gregory_Rosmaita, sharper, kford, +1.617.325.aaaa, Kim_Patch, Hakkinen_Mark, Mark_Hakkinen
Present: Jeanne Gregory_Rosmaita sharper kford +1.617.325.aaaa Kim_Patch Hakkinen_Mark Mark_Hakkinen Harper_Simon Ford_Kelly Spellman_Jeanne Rosmaita_Gregory Greg_Lowney
Regrets: Jim Richards_Jan Jan
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JulSep/0105.html
Found Date: 30 Sep 2010
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: jeanne

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