14:54:17 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:54:17 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11y-irc
14:54:19 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:54:19 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:54:21 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:54:21 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
14:54:22 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:54:22 Date: 30 September 2010
14:55:31 JF has joined #html-a11y
14:56:15 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
14:56:20 +Gregory_Rosmaita
14:56:22 + +1.650.468.aaaa
14:57:41 kliehm has joined #html-a11y
14:57:50 zakim, +1.650.468.aaaa, is John_Foliot
14:57:51 sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named '+1.650.468.aaaa,'
14:57:58 zakim, aaaa, is John_Foliot
14:57:58 sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa,'
14:58:09 zakim, 1.650.468.aaaa, is John_Foliot
14:58:09 sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named '1.650.468.aaaa,'
14:58:49 zakim, [+1.650.468.aaaa], is John_Foliot
14:58:53 sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named '[+1.650.468.aaaa],'
14:59:11 zakim, aaaa is John_Foliot
14:59:14 trackbot, start meeting
14:59:16 +??P0
14:59:16 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:18 +John_Foliot; got it
14:59:18 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:59:19 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:59:19 Date: 30 September 2010
14:59:20 + +49.179.103.aabb
14:59:31 Zakim, call Mike-goog
14:59:32 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:36 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:00:28 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Sep/0677.html
15:00:37 zakim, +49.179.103.aabb is Martin_Kleihm
15:00:37 sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named '+49.179.103.aabb'
15:01:16 zakim, aabb is kliehm
15:01:16 sorry, MichaelC, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
15:01:21 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:21 I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has restarted
15:01:23 On the phone I see John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, ??P0, +49.179.103.aabb, Mike, Michael_Cooper
15:01:41 zakim, ??P0 is Everett_Zufelt
15:01:41 +Everett_Zufelt; got it
15:01:48 zakim, aabb is Martin_Kliehm
15:01:49 +Martin_Kliehm; got it
15:02:29 jeanne has joined #html-a11y
15:03:14 zakim, code?
15:03:14 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), jeanne
15:03:46 +Jeanne
15:04:35 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:04:35 On the phone I see John_Foliot, Gregory_Rosmaita, Everett_Zufelt, kliehm (muted), Mike, Michael_Cooper, Jeanne
15:04:42 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:04:45 zakim, choose a victim
15:04:45 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Gregory_Rosmaita
15:06:39 scribing to be shared by JF and GJR
15:06:39 sean has joined #html-a11y
15:07:00 everett, http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Teleconference_cheat_sheet
15:07:02 topic: Keyboard access requirements
15:07:12 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/pf_requirements_revision
15:07:45 + +44.154.558.aacc
15:07:45 GR: wiki page is revision of requirements based on work from UAAG and tohers
15:07:56 zakim, who's noisy?
15:08:07 MichaelC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Michael_Cooper (41%), +44.154.558.aacc (10%)
15:08:11 oedipus, go ahead
15:08:15 to ensure that all requirements are met in html5
15:08:18 zakim, aacc is Sean_Hayes
15:08:18 +Sean_Hayes; got it
15:08:25 -Michael_Cooper
15:08:37 +Michael_Cooper
15:09:24 there are 9 requirements... (GJR having computer issues)
15:10:10 +Rich
15:10:15 MS: while we wait for Greg, notices that there are some new bugs that have been filed on the topic of accesskeys
15:10:51 GJR: have been using the term of access command as it is more general than accesskey
15:10:56 need to ensure from W
15:11:09 AI perspective that the 9 requirements are met in html5
15:12:03 +[Microsoft]
15:12:15 GJR listing the 9 requirements but JF unable to type that quickly - will ensure all 9 reqs are added to the transcript
15:13:24 9 reqs are listed at the wiki: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/pf_requirements_revision
15:13:39 MS: are there any outstanding bugs that need to be filed against this?
15:13:41 q?
15:14:01 GJR: need to verify that UAAG are comfortable too.
15:14:18 MS: asking Jeanne S about UAAG's position
15:14:27 JS: seems like the wiki page is complete
15:14:48 MS: notes wiki has been updated recently
15:15:08 GJR: split out as seperate issues, but also have requirments for event handler requiremetns
15:15:14 alos on the wiki
15:15:43 GJR: they are split of into a seperate page
15:15:55 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/event_handler_requirements
15:16:47 GJR - these come from the reqs in UAAG 2.0 - need to stress these requriements
15:17:22 MS: notes that these are not things to expect to be addressed by HTML5 per-se, as it does not mandate UI requirements
15:17:52 MS: falls outside of the scope of HTML5 spec - browser chrome issue
15:18:04 GJR: one of the reasons why these were split out
15:18:24 MS: need to ensure that we have bugs recorded in bugzilla to ensure that issues are tracked
15:18:45 q+ to ask what bugs will be filed based on the requirements document?
15:18:51 MS: don't need full consensus from this group, but just to get them into the bugtracker
15:19:11 GJR: wondering if these should be submitted as individual bugs?
15:19:24 q-
15:19:28 MS: likely yes, specificity will be important
15:20:20 MS: Chairs position is that if bugs are logged before Oct. 1 that show that we want to register a certain change as a pre-last call note
15:20:34 specific changes we want to see, then file now
15:20:43 q+ to ask if bugs filed as follow-up after 1 october 2010 considered LC bugs?
15:20:58 then if further bugs are filed after Oct. 1 s clarrifications/followups after Oct. 1 then we are good to go
15:21:02 ack oe
15:21:02 oedipus, you wanted to ask if bugs filed as follow-up after 1 october 2010 considered LC bugs?
15:21:03 q?
15:21:53 GJR: so if we cite precious bugs after Oct. 1, then we are "safe" and this is acceptable
15:22:15 MS: are we in agreement with this requirements?
15:22:30 seems there is no dissent
15:22:38 -Sean_Hayes
15:22:53 follow up with Greg if anyone has comments of additions to the main bugs that Greg will be filing
15:23:29 +Sean_Hayes
15:23:30 MS: notes there are other bugs to discuss today
15:23:46 thanks
15:23:47 scribenick: oedipus
15:24:55 TOPIC: Draf and Drop
15:25:07 MS: want to make sure we are ok on DnD bug/issue logging?
15:25:10 MS: any new info?
15:25:51 EZ: gez filed 2 bugs -- activate target attribute and one to make spec text more device agnostic; hixie said i don't see the exact change you want so set bug to WONTFIX
15:27:39 JF asks if we should add the tracker issue keyword?
15:28:12 MS: perhaps we need to try providing the sample text - if editor moves it back to WONTFIX then we can exscalate to tracker issue
15:28:26 MS: seems that with the 2 bugts, we are OK with DnD
15:28:48 MS: if hixie is not open to further dialog then we can accellerate this
15:28:55 s/Draf and Drop/Drag and Drop/
15:29:08 MS: are all bases covered re: bugs
15:29:10 -Jeanne
15:29:40 jeanne, thanks!
15:29:42 MS: are there any other issues that we need to raise, that we've not yet discussed, before Oct 1
15:29:54 EZ: thinks it would be highly useful for a tooltip attribute
15:29:59 wants to ask about this
15:30:27 regrets+ Marco_Ranon
15:30:34 EZ: might be better to have a specific tooltip attribute, then we can specify it better
15:30:52 regrets+ Laura_Carlson
15:30:54 MS: worth raising as a bug, yes
15:31:16 MS: likely response is that it's late in the game, but if not now, when?
15:31:29 MS: encourages EZ to raise the bug
15:31:57 MS: be sure to note the differences beteen this an @title
15:32:28 MS: this might be an element too
15:32:35 (+1 from JF)
15:33:41 zakim, who's noisy?
15:33:44 MS: if there are any other similar types of issues, even if we've not discussed this before, then file the bug
15:33:51 does not require the support of the TTF
15:33:51 MichaelC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Foliot (70%)
15:34:10 agenda?
15:34:30 MS: no restricition on individuals filing bugs
15:34:46 Topic: sub-team reports
15:35:26 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Media_Accessibility_Checklist&action=history
15:35:41 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist
15:36:31 JF: got 2 documents that we believe are ready to be used -- first user requriments - more important is Media Accessibility Checklist - went trhough all reqs and mapped to ATAG and UAAG Level A and Level AA
15:36:31 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist#Technical_Requirements_Prioritizations_and_Dependencies
15:36:49 JF: further refined reqs beyond what ATAG and UAAG require
15:37:03 JF: must, should, may --- 1 person's take (JF's)
15:37:20 JF: tried to determine how to provide guidance to implementors
15:37:32 JF: effort to give good guidance as they start to roll out implementations
15:38:08 JF: we would like to hjave a straw poll in TF to review MAC -- especially must,should wording and ATAG and UAAG reqs
15:38:24 JF: reviewing the three pieces of text want to get into media elements
15:38:38 JF: Janina sent request to public-html
15:38:59 JF: we believe is useful to bring some WHAT WG text into the W3C HTML spec
15:39:17 JF: javascripting -- non-controversial, so want to get into w3c spec
15:39:33 jeanne has left #html-a11y
15:40:15 JF: rendering -- specific timestamp format -- asking editors to sanitize text from WHAT WG to strip from specific technology (WebSRT in WHAT WG) but need placeholder text in w3c spec; use that to compare diff timestamp formats, so as to find out which meets our reqs
15:40:56 JF: will be gathering evidence for each timestamp option -- if any one works but has shortcomings, we will be happy to provide suggestions
15:41:02 MS: straw poll?
15:41:05 JF: yes
15:41:22 MS: need a little more info on questions on straw poll will be?
15:41:54 JF: will do today
15:41:56 MS: info from poll will be used to create followup bugs
15:43:04 MS: can't perfect all bugs before 1 october 2010 deadline
15:43:06 JF: will be sending note to HTML WG chairs today -- want to get all ducks in a row before discussion of specific technological options; no text in W3C spec that address these 3 issues
15:43:17 JF: going to seek clarification on that from HTML WG chairs
15:43:26 TOPIC: Canvas
15:44:29 MS: quick assesment on canvas in prep for LC?
15:44:30 RS: had a number of proposals; trying to distill down what we need to do
15:44:32 RS: first thing (need a vote to close) - accessible dom proposal that allowed canvas subtree to support keyboard and a11y services
15:45:22 RS: HTML5 today pretty much uses the "adom" strategy -- need to ascertain if this is the only strategy being considered
15:45:38 Canvas proposals: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0225.html
15:46:14 RS: second: if don't want to navigate subtree but only behavior canvas elicits in subtree, can close that one -- this is behavior of canvas sub-tree and close 2 proposals; IE9 allows one to navigate the subtree -- filed bug for FF
15:47:28 MikeSmith: so we may want to have a straw poll to the group to survey agreement about closing out the "adom" and "nonav" proposals
15:48:35 +1 to MS
15:48:40 RS: once those are done; how do we then drive magnification and show visual focus; have subtree but no way to map telemagnifier so that caret can be tracked; direct 2D on windows skips drawing calls and goes straight to hardware, so at can't get into the canvas element
15:48:42 RS: proposal to report caret position, blink rate, selection position to drive magnifier through api that does this -- problem: editor responded that people need drawing calls -- filed 2 bugs on that, but editor said this is too much work - no one will use canvas to do text editing; don't agree -- when people start to cloud compute, will use canvas as word processor
15:49:40 Bespin
15:49:51 JF picks up scribing
15:50:13 RS: there has been a lot of arguing - editor does not want to add these APIs
15:50:18 but we cannot leave the whole
15:50:34 Rich will work to tie this to drawing calls
15:51:23 MS: supports the strategy - spending time talking with implementors is more valuable than trying to educate those who do not have a direct stake in the issue
15:51:40 MS: getting feedback from moz and MS makes good sense
15:51:53 RS: let's get something that works and move forward
15:52:27 MS: have discussed with Chairs - still in the process of these big issues - likely that there will be clarrification bugs moving forward
15:53:04 MS: does not believe that we need to worry about the Oct. 1 deadline here, as these are issues we have been working on prior to Oct. 1
15:53:37 MS: so we just need to ensure that there is nothing brand new
15:53:53 MS: but for ongoing work, there should be no issues
15:54:09 MS: Anything about ARIA mappings?
15:54:35 RS: notes that there is a lot of resistance to addressing things authors are doing today
15:55:06 again we're going through a number of rounds with the editor (i.e role of image being image)
15:55:30 RS: anticipates a number of escalations, as the editor seems to be contrary
15:55:40 RS: even when we put out examples, editor ignores them
15:55:54 so no point arguing back and forth, will just elevate them
15:56:26 RS: cyns has published an API mapping document last week
15:56:51 MS: last item, open action items
15:56:56 action:63?
15:57:01 action-63?
15:57:01 ACTION-63 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to create a bug on Content navigation by content structure -- due 2010-09-29 -- OPEN
15:57:01 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/63
15:57:04 action-64?
15:57:04 ACTION-64 -- Silvia Pfeiffer to file a bug on HTML 5 for Content Navigation by Content Structure due 20101001 -- due 2010-09-29 -- OPEN
15:57:04 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/64
15:58:27 JF: believes those bugs can be closed, will double check and follow up with MCooper
15:58:44 q?
15:58:46 MS: any other issues?
15:59:02 -Sean_Hayes
15:59:09 -[Microsoft]
15:59:09 [adjourned]
15:59:11 -Rich
15:59:15 -Everett_Zufelt
15:59:20 Zakim, drop Mike
15:59:20 Mike is being disconnected
15:59:21 -Mike
15:59:22 -Michael_Cooper
15:59:38 -Gregory_Rosmaita
15:59:40 -John_Foliot
15:59:40 -kliehm
15:59:40 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has ended
15:59:42 Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, +1.650.468.aaaa, John_Foliot, +49.179.103.aabb, Mike, Michael_Cooper, Everett_Zufelt, kliehm, Jeanne, +44.154.558.aacc, Sean_Hayes, Rich,
15:59:45 ... [Microsoft]
16:00:56 present -[+49.179.103.aabb]
16:01:11 rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11y-minutes.html kliehm
16:01:55 rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:03:48 oedipus has joined #html-a11y
16:03:56 zakim, please part
16:03:56 Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:04:21 present+ Cynthia_Shelly
16:04:30 present+ Mike_Smith
16:04:55 regrets+ Kenny_Johar,Sylvia_Pfieffer,Joshue_O'Connor
16:05:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:05:31 present- Mike
16:05:49 chair: Mike_Smith
16:06:01 present- [ +1.650.468.aaaa]
16:06:15 present- [+44.154.558.aacc]
16:06:24 present- [+49.179.103.aabb]
16:06:36 regrets+ Janina_Sajka
16:06:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:07:39 present- +49.179.103.aabb
16:08:09 present- +44.154.558.aacc
16:08:20 present- +1.650.468.aaaa
16:08:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:09:12 Laura has joined #html-a11y
16:11:53 s/ACTION: 63? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11//
16:12:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11y-minutes.html oedipus
16:12:59 i/GR: wiki page is revision/scribenick: JF/
16:13:27 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/30-html-a11y-actions.rdf :
16:13:27 ACTION: 63? [1]
16:13:27