IRC log of i18n on 2010-09-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:19:35 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
16:19:35 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:19:45 [aphillip]
RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:19:53 [aphillip]
Meeting: Internationalization Core Teleconference
16:19:57 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
16:20:02 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
16:20:07 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillip
16:20:25 [aphillip]
16:20:31 [aphillip]
RRSAgent, make minutes
16:20:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:20:37 [aphillip]
zakim, this will be i18n
16:20:37 [Zakim]
ok, aphillip; I see I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
16:21:13 [r12a]
hey addison, do you fancy giving a lightning talk at tpac ?
16:24:45 [David]
David has joined #i18n
16:25:04 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has been moved to #core by fsasaki
16:25:21 [r12a]
16:25:28 [r12a]
felix, what did you just do ?
16:26:05 [kennyluck]
r12a: felix is not in this channel
16:26:39 [r12a]
i just asked him to tmove zakim back
16:27:36 [fsasaki]
fsasaki has joined #i18n
16:28:03 [fsasaki]
zakim, move i18n to here
16:28:03 [Zakim]
fsasaki, I see I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be i18n".
16:28:12 [fsasaki]
zakim, this will be i18n
16:28:13 [Zakim]
ok, fsasaki; I see I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
16:28:33 [r12a]
thanks felix
16:28:46 [fsasaki]
16:29:53 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has now started
16:30:00 [Zakim]
16:30:07 [r12a]
zakim, who's here ?
16:30:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft]
16:30:08 [Zakim]
On IRC I see fsasaki, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, aphillip, andrewc, kennyluck, r12a
16:30:12 [Zakim]
16:30:20 [Zakim]
16:30:31 [Zakim]
16:31:41 [r12a]
zakim, dial richard please
16:31:41 [Zakim]
ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:31:43 [Zakim]
16:32:58 [Zakim]
16:34:15 [aphillip]
Topic: Minutes and Agenda review
16:34:45 [aphillip]
Topic: Action Items
16:36:23 [Norbert]
Norbert has joined #i18n
16:36:31 [gwynethm]
gwynethm has joined #i18n
16:36:36 [aphillip]
all: review HTML5 (rolling action item to be reviewed weekly)
16:37:19 [Zakim]
16:37:32 [aphillip]
all: review working with time zones with an eye to publishing to wider review for next week
16:37:51 [aphillip]
addison: send announcement of channel change and update agenda, etc.: WG will now use #i18n instead of #core in IRC
16:37:52 [aphillip]
16:38:13 [aphillip]
addison: send update note to public@ about WWTZ to remind all to review document
16:38:45 [aphillip]
Aharon: file bugs on HTML5 and CSS and send working group pointers to them
16:39:00 [David]
zakim, mute me
16:39:00 [Zakim]
David should now be muted
16:39:06 [aphillip]
16:39:59 [aphillip]
Topic: Info Share
16:40:23 [aphillip]
chair: welcome to Gwyneth
16:41:47 [aphillip]
addison: IRI interim meeting next Tuesday
16:43:44 [aphillip]
16:44:12 [aphillip]
richard: can't think of anything
16:44:41 [aphillip]
Topic: What Time Is This Meeting At?
16:45:30 [David]
zakim, unmute me
16:45:30 [Zakim]
David should no longer be muted
16:45:55 [r12a]
+1 to doodle poll
16:46:53 [aphillip]
ACTION: David: set up doodle poll for when this meeting will be held following dst transition
16:47:30 [r12a]
agenda+ ruby and text direction
16:47:55 [aphillip]
Topic: ITS and ePub
16:48:08 [aphillip]
felix: ITS interest group
16:48:13 [aphillip]
... following development of ePub
16:48:23 [aphillip]
... and discussions of ruby, et al
16:48:30 [aphillip]
... ePub is doing major i18n revision
16:48:45 [aphillip]
... but not much yet to localization related aspects
16:48:49 [aphillip]
... which ITS does cover
16:48:59 [aphillip]
... ITS WG also has a best practice document
16:49:11 [aphillip]
... which might want to be taken into account in epub development
16:49:19 [aphillip]
... what is the best channel to achieve this?
16:49:27 [David]
zakim, mute me
16:49:27 [Zakim]
David should now be muted
16:49:46 [aphillip]
felix: murata-san is a key person here
16:49:52 [aphillip]
... should ITS IG just engage him?
16:50:02 [aphillip]
... or forward comments to core first?
16:50:42 [aphillip]
addison: think that ITS IG exists to deal with cases like this
16:51:56 [aphillip]
r12a: +1
16:52:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
16:53:49 [aphillip]
Topic: Ruby and Text Direction
16:54:01 [aphillip]
richard: ruby is being discussed again
16:54:07 [aphillip]
... being kickstarted by epub
16:54:15 [aphillip]
... text-direction
16:54:26 [aphillip]
... fantasai proposed to change text layout module
16:54:36 [aphillip]
... hope to do so quickly
16:54:42 [aphillip]
... so ePub needs are covered
16:55:04 [aphillip]
... kenny also partcipating (a Team member)
16:55:14 [aphillip]
... will spend 80% of time on internationalization
16:55:22 [aphillip]
... main area of focus is text layout and ruby
16:55:44 [aphillip]
richard: going with fantasai to taiwan
16:55:51 [kennyluck]
Yay, I am sorry but I am also listening to #CSS (discussing IDPF liaisons), so I couldn't join the talk today. I'll provide extra info later.
16:56:05 [aphillip]
... looking at bopomofo ruby, etc.
16:56:35 [aphillip]
richard: discussions going on current on public-i18n-cjk@
16:56:42 [aphillip]
... you may want to subscribe to that list
16:56:52 [aphillip]
... also public-i18n-bidi@ list
16:56:56 [aphillip]
... for bidi issues
16:57:26 [David]
zakim, unmute me
16:57:26 [Zakim]
David should no longer be muted
16:58:13 [aphillip]
addison: think individuals should subscribe if their interest warrants
16:58:42 [aphillip]
richard: css ruby module is in editor's copy
16:58:45 [aphillip]
... not in CR
16:58:53 [aphillip]
... raised some bugs on HTML5
16:59:01 [aphillip]
... asking for <rb> tag as an option
16:59:13 [aphillip]
... some question if HTML5 model fits needs of ruby well
16:59:21 [aphillip]
... probably not going away
16:59:29 [aphillip]
... do we need complex ruby per XHTML??
16:59:34 [aphillip]
... there are some implementations
16:59:36 [aphillip]
... but some resistance
16:59:47 [aphillip]
... can we get around most of the requirements?
17:00:07 [aphillip]
richard: ruby annotation spec was always written with an eye to general annotation
17:00:18 [aphillip]
... "could use ruby for this or that"
17:00:41 [aphillip]
... part fo the question is whether to adapt ruby model and make it very specific to ruby
17:00:53 [aphillip]
... or use for other things
17:01:03 [aphillip]
... otherwise focus on producing CJK annotations
17:01:22 [aphillip]
richard: part of complexity is arbitrary alignments
17:01:36 [aphillip]
... more than one ruby text associated with a base
17:01:44 [aphillip]
... can do it with nested ruby tags?
17:01:54 [aphillip]
... but I think it might not be too bad and could work
17:03:17 [aphillip]
addison: any actions for now??
17:03:31 [aphillip]
richard: follow on cjk list
17:03:47 [aphillip]
Topic: HTML5
17:03:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:04:23 [aphillip]
richard: bug reports are in public-i18n-bidi@ list
17:04:43 [aphillip]
addison: these are the bidi bugs Aharon gave you
17:04:55 [aphillip]
richard: yep. that's where bidi discussion is so put it there
17:05:13 [aphillip]
... also raised two bugs about ruby and put them on public-i18n-cjk@
17:05:25 [aphillip]
richard: raised a few bugs but not many
17:05:29 [aphillip]
... 1 October is deadline
17:05:39 [aphillip]
... so feature requests must really be in by then
17:05:44 [aphillip]
... last call several months from now
17:05:50 [aphillip]
... going to work through bug list before then
17:06:10 [aphillip]
richard: might have interest in a "translate" flag?
17:06:22 [aphillip]
... since translating some web sites
17:06:34 [aphillip]
... maybe a clear need for it?
17:06:48 [aphillip]
... resurrect before Friday?
17:06:51 [aphillip]
norbert: what would it do?
17:07:01 [aphillip]
richard: it would say "do not translated the text in this element"
17:07:35 [aphillip]
... google has a way of doing that
17:07:47 [aphillip]
... hixie basically said "don't see a lot of demand for that"
17:08:03 [aphillip]
... but the fact google has something for it says a lot for it?
17:08:48 [aphillip]
norbert: how does google do it?
17:09:03 [aphillip]
richard: some attr or class they use
17:09:34 [aphillip]
felix: suggested that HTML5 should support ITS directly
17:09:44 [aphillip]
... pushback was "use a specific class value"
17:10:41 [aphillip]
addison: maybe put it back out there again
17:10:54 [aphillip]
felix: XLIFF meeting I attended...
17:11:16 [aphillip]
... more folks would like to integrate localization info into the source format for interoperability with tools/formats such as XLIFF
17:11:26 [aphillip]
... so maybe that would help that community a lot
17:11:39 [aphillip]
... so a large group of folks who would support
17:11:58 [aphillip]
chair: any objections to raising as WG issue?
17:12:22 [aphillip]
ACTION: richard: file 'translate' attribute request as a bug with HTML5
17:13:35 [r12a]
17:13:36 [r12a]
If you don't mind your web page being translated by Google Translate, except for a particular section (like an email address, for example), just add class=notranslate to any HTML element to prevent that element from being translated. For example: Email us at <span class="notranslate"> sales at example dot com
17:13:38 [r12a]
17:13:38 [aphillip]
chair: raise any issues you personally have as personal issues; WG will consider endorsing
17:13:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:14:38 [aphillip]
Topic: Bidi
17:14:43 [aphillip]
(no business this week)
17:14:52 [aphillip]
Topic: AOB?
17:15:27 [Zakim]
17:15:30 [Zakim]
17:15:31 [Zakim]
17:15:33 [Zakim]
17:15:34 [Zakim]
17:15:37 [aphillip]
Regrets: Aharon, Mati
17:15:38 [Zakim]
17:15:45 [Zakim]
17:15:47 [Zakim]
I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has ended
17:15:48 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], aphillip, Felix, andrewc, Richard, David, gwynethm
17:16:00 [Norbert]
zakim, ??P27 is Norbert
17:16:00 [Zakim]
I already had ??P27 as ??P27, Norbert
17:16:45 [aphillip]
Present: Addison, Richard, Norbert, Felix, David, Andrew, Gwyneth
17:16:52 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:16:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
17:16:55 [aphillip]
zakim, bye
17:16:55 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
17:17:00 [aphillip]
rrsagent, bye
17:17:00 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
17:17:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David: set up doodle poll for when this meeting will be held following dst transition [1]
17:17:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:17:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: richard: file 'translate' attribute request as a bug with HTML5 [2]
17:17:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in