16:19:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
16:19:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-irc
16:19:45 <aphillip> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:19:53 <aphillip> Meeting: Internationalization Core Teleconference
16:19:57 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
16:20:02 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
16:20:07 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
16:20:25 <aphillip> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2010Sep/0007.html
16:20:31 <aphillip> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:20:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:20:37 <aphillip> zakim, this will be i18n
16:20:37 <Zakim> ok, aphillip; I see I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
16:21:13 <r12a> hey addison, do you fancy giving a lightning talk at tpac ?
16:24:45 <David> David has joined #i18n
16:25:04 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has been moved to #core by fsasaki
16:25:21 <r12a> ?
16:25:28 <r12a> felix, what did you just do ?
16:26:05 <kennyluck> r12a: felix is not in this channel
16:26:39 <r12a> i just asked him to tmove zakim back
16:27:36 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
16:28:03 <fsasaki> zakim, move i18n to here
16:28:03 <Zakim> fsasaki, I see I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be i18n".
16:28:12 <fsasaki> zakim, this will be i18n
16:28:13 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; I see I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
16:28:33 <r12a> thanks felix
16:28:46 <fsasaki> np
16:29:53 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has now started
16:30:00 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:30:07 <r12a> zakim, who's here ?
16:30:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft]
16:30:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see fsasaki, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, aphillip, andrewc, kennyluck, r12a
16:30:12 <Zakim> +??P11
16:30:20 <Zakim> +??P19
16:30:31 <Zakim> +aphillip
16:31:41 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
16:31:41 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:31:43 <Zakim> +Richard
16:32:58 <Zakim> +David
16:34:15 <aphillip> Topic: Minutes and Agenda review
16:34:45 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
16:36:23 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
16:36:31 <gwynethm> gwynethm has joined #i18n
16:36:36 <aphillip> all: review HTML5 (rolling action item to be reviewed weekly) 
16:37:19 <Zakim> +??P27
16:37:32 <aphillip> all: review working with time zones with an eye to publishing to wider review for next week 
16:37:51 <aphillip> addison: send announcement of channel change and update agenda, etc.: WG will now use #i18n instead of #core in IRC 
16:37:52 <aphillip> DONE
16:38:13 <aphillip> addison: send update note to public@ about WWTZ to remind all to review document 
16:38:45 <aphillip> Aharon: file bugs on HTML5 and CSS and send working group pointers to them 
16:39:00 <David> zakim, mute me
16:39:00 <Zakim> David should now be muted
16:39:06 <aphillip> DONE
16:39:59 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
16:40:23 <aphillip> chair: welcome to Gwyneth
16:41:47 <aphillip> addison: IRI interim meeting next Tuesday
16:43:44 <aphillip> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-iri/
16:44:12 <aphillip> richard: can't think of anything
16:44:41 <aphillip> Topic: What Time Is This Meeting At?
16:45:30 <David> zakim, unmute me
16:45:30 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
16:45:55 <r12a> +1 to doodle poll
16:46:53 <aphillip> ACTION: David: set up doodle poll for when this meeting will be held following dst transition
16:47:30 <r12a> agenda+ ruby and text direction
16:47:55 <aphillip> Topic: ITS and ePub
16:48:08 <aphillip> felix: ITS interest group
16:48:13 <aphillip> ... following development of ePub
16:48:23 <aphillip> ... and discussions of ruby, et al
16:48:30 <aphillip> ... ePub is doing major i18n revision
16:48:45 <aphillip> ... but not much yet to localization related aspects
16:48:49 <aphillip> ... which ITS does cover
16:48:59 <aphillip> ... ITS WG also has a best practice document
16:49:11 <aphillip> ... which might want to be taken into account in epub development
16:49:19 <aphillip> ... what is the best channel to achieve this?
16:49:27 <David> zakim, mute me
16:49:27 <Zakim> David should now be muted
16:49:46 <aphillip> felix: murata-san is a key person here
16:49:52 <aphillip> ... should ITS IG just engage him?
16:50:02 <aphillip> ... or forward comments to core first?
16:50:42 <aphillip> addison: think that ITS IG exists to deal with cases like this
16:51:56 <aphillip> r12a: +1
16:52:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:53:49 <aphillip> Topic: Ruby and Text Direction
16:54:01 <aphillip> richard: ruby is being discussed again
16:54:07 <aphillip> ... being kickstarted by epub 
16:54:15 <aphillip> ... text-direction
16:54:26 <aphillip> ... fantasai proposed to change text layout module
16:54:36 <aphillip> ... hope to do so quickly
16:54:42 <aphillip> ... so ePub needs are covered
16:55:04 <aphillip> ... kenny also partcipating (a Team member)
16:55:14 <aphillip> ... will spend 80% of time on internationalization
16:55:22 <aphillip> ... main area of focus is text layout and ruby
16:55:44 <aphillip> richard: going with fantasai to taiwan
16:55:51 <kennyluck> Yay, I am sorry but I am also listening to #CSS (discussing IDPF liaisons), so I couldn't join the talk today. I'll provide extra info later.
16:56:05 <aphillip> ... looking at bopomofo ruby, etc.
16:56:35 <aphillip> richard: discussions going on current on public-i18n-cjk@
16:56:42 <aphillip> ... you may want to subscribe to that list
16:56:52 <aphillip> ... also public-i18n-bidi@ list
16:56:56 <aphillip> ... for bidi issues
16:57:26 <David> zakim, unmute me
16:57:26 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
16:58:13 <aphillip> addison: think individuals should subscribe if their interest warrants
16:58:42 <aphillip> richard: css ruby module is in editor's copy
16:58:45 <aphillip> ... not in CR
16:58:53 <aphillip> ... raised some bugs on HTML5
16:59:01 <aphillip> ... asking for <rb> tag as an option
16:59:13 <aphillip> ... some question if HTML5 model fits needs of ruby well
16:59:21 <aphillip> ... probably not going away
16:59:29 <aphillip> ... do we need complex ruby per XHTML??
16:59:34 <aphillip> ... there are some implementations
16:59:36 <aphillip> ... but some resistance
16:59:47 <aphillip> ... can we get around most of the requirements?
17:00:07 <aphillip> richard: ruby annotation spec was always written with an eye to general annotation
17:00:18 <aphillip> ... "could use ruby for this or that"
17:00:41 <aphillip> ... part fo the question is whether to adapt ruby model and make it very specific to ruby
17:00:53 <aphillip> ... or use for other things
17:01:03 <aphillip> ... otherwise focus on producing CJK annotations
17:01:22 <aphillip> richard: part of complexity is arbitrary alignments 
17:01:36 <aphillip> ... more than one ruby text associated with a base
17:01:44 <aphillip> ... can do it with nested ruby tags?
17:01:54 <aphillip> ... but I think it might not be too bad and could work
17:03:17 <aphillip> addison: any actions for now??
17:03:31 <aphillip> richard: follow on cjk list
17:03:47 <aphillip> Topic: HTML5
17:03:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:04:23 <aphillip> richard: bug reports are in public-i18n-bidi@ list
17:04:43 <aphillip> addison: these are the bidi bugs Aharon gave you
17:04:55 <aphillip> richard: yep. that's where bidi discussion is so put it there
17:05:13 <aphillip> ... also raised two bugs about ruby and put them on public-i18n-cjk@
17:05:25 <aphillip> richard: raised a few bugs but not many
17:05:29 <aphillip> ... 1 October is deadline
17:05:39 <aphillip> ... so feature requests must really be in by then
17:05:44 <aphillip> ... last call several months from now
17:05:50 <aphillip> ... going to work through bug list before then
17:06:10 <aphillip> richard: might have interest in a "translate" flag?
17:06:22 <aphillip> ... since translating some web sites
17:06:34 <aphillip> ... maybe a clear need for it?
17:06:48 <aphillip> ... resurrect before Friday?
17:06:51 <aphillip> norbert: what would it do?
17:07:01 <aphillip> richard: it would say "do not translated the text in this element"
17:07:35 <aphillip> ... google has a way of doing that
17:07:47 <aphillip> ... hixie basically said "don't see a lot of demand for that"
17:08:03 <aphillip> ... but the fact google has something for it says a lot for it?
17:08:48 <aphillip> norbert: how does google do it?
17:09:03 <aphillip> richard: some attr or class they use
17:09:34 <aphillip> felix: suggested that HTML5 should support ITS directly
17:09:44 <aphillip> ... pushback was "use a specific class value"
17:10:41 <aphillip> addison: maybe put it back out there again
17:10:54 <aphillip> felix: XLIFF meeting I attended...
17:11:16 <aphillip> ... more folks would like to integrate localization info into the source format for interoperability with tools/formats such as XLIFF
17:11:26 <aphillip> ... so maybe that would help that community a lot
17:11:39 <aphillip> ... so a large group of folks who would support
17:11:58 <aphillip> chair: any objections to raising as WG issue?
17:12:22 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: file 'translate' attribute request as a bug with HTML5
17:13:35 <r12a> [[
17:13:36 <r12a> If you don't mind your web page being translated by Google Translate, except for a particular section (like an email address, for example), just add class=notranslate to any HTML element to prevent that element from being translated. For example: Email us at <span class="notranslate"> sales at example dot com
17:13:38 <r12a> ]]
17:13:38 <aphillip> chair: raise any issues you personally have as personal issues; WG will consider endorsing
17:13:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:14:38 <aphillip> Topic: Bidi
17:14:43 <aphillip> (no business this week)
17:14:52 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
17:15:27 <Zakim> -gwynethm
17:15:30 <Zakim> -aphillip
17:15:31 <Zakim> -Felix
17:15:33 <Zakim> -??P27
17:15:34 <Zakim> -David
17:15:37 <aphillip> Regrets: Aharon, Mati
17:15:38 <Zakim> -andrewc
17:15:45 <Zakim> -Richard
17:15:47 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()12:30PM has ended
17:15:48 <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft], aphillip, Felix, andrewc, Richard, David, gwynethm
17:16:00 <Norbert> zakim, ??P27 is Norbert
17:16:00 <Zakim> I already had ??P27 as ??P27, Norbert
17:16:45 <aphillip> Present: Addison, Richard, Norbert, Felix, David, Andrew, Gwyneth
17:16:52 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
17:16:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:16:55 <aphillip> zakim, bye
17:16:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
17:17:00 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
17:17:00 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-actions.rdf :
17:17:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David: set up doodle poll for when this meeting will be held following dst transition [1]
17:17:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-irc#T16-46-53
17:17:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: file 'translate' attribute request as a bug with HTML5 [2]
17:17:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/29-i18n-irc#T17-12-22