IRC log of bpwg on 2010-09-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:24:04 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #bpwg

13:24:04 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-irc

13:24:06 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:24:06 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #bpwg

13:24:08 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be BPWG

13:24:08 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see MWI_BPWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

13:24:09 [trackbot]

Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

13:24:09 [trackbot]

Date: 28 September 2010

13:26:31 [francois]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg/2010Sep/0010.html

13:26:37 [francois]

Chair: jo

13:27:07 [francois]

Regrets: yeliz, kai, miguel

13:27:21 [adam]

adam has joined #bpwg

13:27:22 [twhume]

Zakim, what is the code?

13:27:22 [Zakim]

the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), twhume

13:27:49 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has now started

13:27:56 [Zakim]

+adam

13:29:54 [Zakim]

+DKA

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DKA has joined #bpwg

13:30:14 [Zakim]

+francois

13:30:15 [Zakim]

+ +44.203.141.aaaa

13:30:21 [EdC]

EdC has joined #bpwg

13:30:21 [jo]

zakim, aaaa is me

13:30:22 [Zakim]

+jo; got it

13:30:50 [francois]

zakim, mute me

13:30:50 [Zakim]

francois should now be muted

13:31:57 [jo]

twhume, you want to try again?

13:32:28 [jo]

i am in on UK

13:32:45 [DKA]

zakim, what is the code?

13:32:45 [Zakim]

the conference code is 2794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), DKA

13:32:49 [Zakim]

+ +31.97.2.aabb

13:33:26 [francois]

ack me

13:33:53 [Zakim]

+ +44.127.381.aacc

13:34:02 [twhume]

Zakim, aacc is me

13:34:02 [Zakim]

+twhume; got it

13:34:24 [francois]

zakim, mute me

13:34:24 [Zakim]

francois should now be muted

13:34:29 [DKA]

Scribe: Dan

13:34:31 [DKA]

ScribeNick: DKA

13:34:37 [DKA]

Topic: BP2

13:34:47 [DKA]

Jo: Francois? A run-down?

13:34:54 [francois]

ack me

13:35:03 [francois]

-> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/mwabp-implementation-report MWABP implementation report

13:35:51 [EdC]

The matrix of implementation reports looks good.

13:36:07 [DKA]

Francois: We are good. There are 3 best practices for which we don't have 2 proper implementation reports but I think it's OK. We have evidence of implementation in the world of "fingerprinting" - links in discussion in the mailing list.

13:36:26 [DKA]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We are good to go on fingerprinting.

13:36:42 [EdC]

Why are entries in the column Uxebu marked "yes" instead of "pass" ?

13:36:52 [DKA]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We are good to go on fingerprinting - i.e. point 14 of the implementation report ya know.

13:37:00 [jo]

+1

13:37:01 [DKA]

+1

13:37:03 [adam]

+1

13:37:07 [twhume]

+1

13:37:10 [francois]

+1

13:37:16 [EdC]

0

13:37:18 [DKA]

RESOLUTION: We are good to go on fingerprinting - i.e. point 14 of the implementation report.

13:37:25 [DKA]

[no objections]

13:37:26 [francois]

[EdC, there's indeed a slight problem in the table layout, I'll fix that]

13:38:37 [DKA]

Francois: Moving to number 21. We have 2 implementation reports for that. I just note that the last implementation report said that they don't think it's that useful on mobile devices. I don't think we should worry about it.

13:39:00 [DKA]

Francois: Unless there are any objections don't think we need a resolution.

13:39:03 [DKA]

Jo: OK.

13:39:14 [DKA]

Francois: Number 22- use fragment ID...

13:39:49 [DKA]

Francois: We have multiple implementation reports but they all come from the same companies. Pity we don't have evidence from more than 1 company but it does exist in the wild...

13:40:11 [DKA]

Jo: It is extemely widely used - so not worried.

13:40:22 [DKA]

Adam: It's worth noting that it's wildly used on desktop as well.

13:40:48 [DKA]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We agree that Nunber 22- use fragment ID is OK to go even though all the formal implementation reports are from one company...

13:40:57 [adam]

+1

13:41:00 [EdC]

+1

13:41:03 [francois]

+1

13:41:08 [jo]

+1

13:41:08 [DKA]

+1

13:41:08 [twhume]

+1

13:41:21 [DKA]

RESOLUTION: We agree that Nunber 22- use fragment ID is OK to go even though all the formal implementation reports are from one company

13:41:54 [DKA]

Francois: Last one is 26 - consider ... - 3 partial implementations from 3 different companies. So I think we are good to go.

13:42:23 [DKA]

Francois: It's a "consider" best practice so difficult to define where line should be drawn.

13:42:54 [EdC]

And it proposes several methods, so partial might have been interpreted as "we use only one of all these".

13:43:03 [DKA]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We are agreed that nunber 26 - consider .. is OK even considering we only have 3 partial implementations...

13:43:07 [EdC]

+1

13:43:10 [adam]

+1

13:43:17 [twhume]

+1

13:43:20 [jo]

+1

13:43:22 [francois]

+1

13:43:30 [DKA]

RESOLUTION: We are agreed that nunber 26 - consider .. is OK even considering we only have 3 partial implementations...

13:43:53 [DKA]

Jo: Now we go to the transition request...

13:45:03 [DKA]

Francois: before that I'd like to mention replies to the last call comments. We received the response from PFWG - they sent a positive response. One of the responses was not send to the public mailing list - it has not arrived there yet - I will chase him for this.

13:45:16 [DKA]

Jo: We have a record from you (here) that this response has been received.

13:45:32 [DKA]

Francois: yes, we are not waiting for any further reply - I will prepare disposition of comments.

13:46:04 [DKA]

ACTION: Daoust to prepare distribution of comments for BP2.

13:46:04 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1072 - Prepare distribution of comments for BP2. [on François Daoust - due 2010-10-05].

13:46:22 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The BPWG requests transition of Mobile Web Applications Best Practices (aka BP2) to Proposed Recommendation. There is no need for the document to go through Candidate Recommendation again.

13:46:51 [francois]

+1

13:46:51 [DKA]

+1

13:46:53 [twhume]

+1

13:46:54 [jo]

+1

13:46:54 [adam]

+1

13:47:04 [DKA]

Jo: Any objections?

13:47:06 [EdC]

+

13:47:07 [EdC]

+1

13:47:08 [DKA]

[none heard]

13:47:11 [DKA]

RESOLUTION: The BPWG requests transition of Mobile Web Applications Best Practices (aka BP2) to Proposed Recommendation. There is no need for the document to go through Candidate Recommendation again.

13:47:17 [DKA]

woo hoo!

13:48:01 [DKA]

Francois: This means we need to request transition - it will take some time... Then Dan, Jo and I will have to attend a transition call with "the Director".

13:48:35 [SeanP]

SeanP has joined #bpwg

13:48:42 [DKA]

Jo: Transition call within 2 weeks...

13:48:57 [DKA]

Francois: Hopefully. Then 4 weeks minimum in PR.

13:49:19 [Zakim]

+SeanP

13:49:38 [DKA]

Thanks Adam!

13:49:58 [DKA]

Topic: [lovely] CT Guidelines

13:50:28 [DKA]

Jo: Any last minute news from anybody on an implementation report that is forthcoming?

13:50:41 [DKA]

Jo: If not, we don't have sufficient implementation evidence.

13:50:45 [DKA]

Francois: That's correct.

13:51:00 [DKA]

Jo: Anybody on this call here have anything to say about this?

13:51:13 [DKA]

Adam: Aaron said he was going to...

13:51:33 [SeanP]

q+

13:51:33 [DKA]

Jo: He kindly provided a report but it did not support a sufficient number of the points of conformance.

13:51:39 [DKA]

ack seanp

13:52:21 [DKA]

Sean: Bad news [from Nokia]: we're not going to provide a report.

13:52:44 [DKA]

Jo: I don't see any option that we have. Are we allowed to leave this in CR?

13:53:14 [DKA]

Francois: As soon as the group closes, any remaining work items need to be published as a working group note. Seems to be a good idea to [publish it as a note] now.

13:53:48 [DKA]

Jo: It seems a great shame but unless anyone has any brilliant ideas - I suggest we go ahead an publish it as a working group note.

13:54:07 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: "Downgrade" CT Guidelines to a WG Note and request publication as such.

13:54:19 [DKA]

+1 (reluctantly)

13:54:24 [francois]

+1

13:54:27 [SeanP]

+1

13:54:27 [adam]

+1

13:54:37 [twhume]

+1 with a meh

13:54:42 [EdC]

+1 (sadly)

13:54:45 [jo]

+1 (it's a bitter pill to swallow)

13:54:58 [EdC]

how are group members (especiallly

13:54:58 [EdC]

operators and transcoder vendors) will utilize the CTG,

13:54:58 [EdC]

even if only as a WG note?

13:55:10 [DKA]

RESOLUTION: "Downgrade" CT Guidelines to a WG Note and request publication as such.

13:56:11 [DKA]

Jo: Whilst it would have more force as a recommendation, in practice getting the work out there in a published form is worth-while [whether it be Note or Recommendation].

13:56:44 [DKA]

Jo: Francois, can you adjust the content of the document to turn it from a Rec into a Note. The main bits are in the preamble. We will take it offline.

13:56:57 [jo]

ACTION: Jo to talk with Francois about what is needed to enact the above resolution on CT Guidelines

13:56:57 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1073 - Talk with Francois about what is needed to enact the above resolution on CT Guidelines [on Jo Rabin - due 2010-10-05].

13:57:17 [DKA]

Jo: Anything else on CT guidelines?

13:57:21 [DKA]

Topic: AOB?

13:58:00 [DKA]

Jo: Charter extension - sounds like it's going to take at least 6 weeks for BP2 to reach rec. So we need to request an extension or make w3m aware that we need an extension.

13:58:27 [DKA]

Francois: We need to wait for response on our request to transition to PR.

13:58:52 [francois]

s/need to/should/

13:58:53 [DKA]

Jo: ok - so later in october we will request an extension.

13:59:05 [DKA]

Jo: We should close off outstanding issues and actions.

13:59:16 [DKA]

Topic: Issues & Actions clean-up

13:59:30 [DKA]

Jo: No open issues.

13:59:43 [DKA]

Jo: Open Actions - we have 21...

13:59:46 [DKA]

ACTION-1003?

13:59:47 [trackbot]

ACTION-1003 -- Bruce Lawson to follow up within Opera as to what exactly the XSS test scripts supplied by chaals guard against -- due 2009-09-08 -- OPEN

13:59:47 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1003

14:00:02 [DKA]

close action-1003

14:00:02 [trackbot]

ACTION-1003 Follow up within Opera as to what exactly the XSS test scripts supplied by chaals guard against closed

14:00:08 [DKA]

action-1008

14:00:10 [DKA]

action-1008?

14:00:10 [trackbot]

ACTION-1008 -- Adam Connors to check if Google has tests they could contribute for CT guidelines -- due 2009-09-22 -- OPEN

14:00:10 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1008

14:00:20 [DKA]

close action-1008

14:00:20 [trackbot]

ACTION-1008 Check if Google has tests they could contribute for CT guidelines closed

14:00:27 [DKA]

action-1022?

14:00:27 [trackbot]

ACTION-1022 -- Daniel Appelquist to ping internally in Vodafone to see if we have any ability to help with CT test suites. -- due 2009-10-27 -- OPEN

14:00:27 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1022

14:00:31 [EdC]

Do we close at least with an indication that they are closed without final resolution ?

14:00:38 [DKA]

I never got any joy.

14:00:44 [DKA]

close action-1022

14:00:44 [trackbot]

ACTION-1022 Ping internally in Vodafone to see if we have any ability to help with CT test suites. closed

14:00:47 [DKA]

action-1035?

14:00:47 [trackbot]

ACTION-1035 -- Daniel Appelquist to create a plan to raise awareness on mobileOK through some campaign -- due 2009-12-18 -- OPEN

14:00:47 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1035

14:00:56 [DKA]

ongoing

14:01:03 [DKA]

yes

14:01:05 [DKA]

leave it open

14:01:11 [DKA]

action-1038?

14:01:11 [trackbot]

ACTION-1038 -- François Daoust to look into mobile Web Applications within W3C that implement some of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices. -- due 2010-02-16 -- OPEN

14:01:11 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1038

14:01:55 [DKA]

Francois: I've had a look...

14:01:56 [DKA]

close action-1038

14:01:56 [trackbot]

ACTION-1038 Look into mobile Web Applications within W3C that implement some of the Mobile Web Application Best Practices. closed

14:02:01 [DKA]

action-1039?

14:02:01 [trackbot]

ACTION-1039 -- Tom Hume to look into mobile Web Application within Future Platforms and provide implementation report for MWABP -- due 2010-02-16 -- OPEN

14:02:01 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1039

14:02:25 [DKA]

Tom: Provided.

14:02:29 [DKA]

Jo: done and closed.

14:02:35 [DKA]

close action-1039

14:02:35 [trackbot]

ACTION-1039 Look into mobile Web Application within Future Platforms and provide implementation report for MWABP closed

14:02:38 [DKA]

Didn't do.

14:02:49 [DKA]

close action-1040

14:02:49 [trackbot]

ACTION-1040 Make a post about MWABP to entice people to provide feedback closed

14:02:53 [DKA]

Did do but no response.

14:03:02 [EdC]

Once more, when you close, is there an indication that the actions were actually dropped (no resolution) instead of closed with a resolution?

14:03:02 [DKA]

action-1041?

14:03:02 [trackbot]

ACTION-1041 -- Daniel Appelquist to contact facebook and Opera ref implementation reports for BP2 -- due 2010-03-09 -- OPEN

14:03:02 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1041

14:03:07 [DKA]

did but no response.

14:03:12 [DKA]

close action-1041

14:03:12 [trackbot]

ACTION-1041 Contact facebook and Opera ref implementation reports for BP2 closed

14:03:20 [DKA]

action-1043?

14:03:20 [trackbot]

ACTION-1043 -- Daniel Appelquist to see if on-deck apps and betavine could be a source of implementation reports -- due 2010-04-06 -- OPEN

14:03:20 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1043

14:03:31 [DKA]

Nothing forthcoming here.

14:03:35 [DKA]

close action-1043

14:03:35 [trackbot]

ACTION-1043 See if on-deck apps and betavine could be a source of implementation reports closed

14:03:41 [DKA]

action-1050?

14:03:41 [trackbot]

ACTION-1050 -- Jeffrey Sonstein to help find 2 implementations of 5 and 6 by 30 June. -- due 2010-06-29 -- OPEN

14:03:41 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1050

14:03:51 [DKA]

close action-1050

14:03:51 [trackbot]

ACTION-1050 Help find 2 implementations of 5 and 6 by 30 June. closed

14:04:00 [DKA]

action-1052

14:04:04 [DKA]

close action-1052

14:04:04 [trackbot]

ACTION-1052 Investigate CT implementation report closed

14:04:19 [DKA]

close action-1053

14:04:19 [trackbot]

ACTION-1053 Investigate CT implementation report closed

14:04:28 [DKA]

action-1055?

14:04:28 [trackbot]

ACTION-1055 -- François Daoust to see with Jérôme about CT implementation report -- due 2010-06-29 -- OPEN

14:04:28 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1055

14:04:32 [DKA]

close action-1055

14:04:32 [trackbot]

ACTION-1055 See with Jérôme about CT implementation report closed

14:04:56 [DKA]

action-1059?

14:04:56 [trackbot]

ACTION-1059 -- Daniel Appelquist to ping Bytemobile about CT implementation report -- due 2010-06-29 -- OPEN

14:04:56 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1059

14:05:03 [DKA]

no response...

14:05:09 [DKA]

close action-1059

14:05:09 [trackbot]

ACTION-1059 Ping Bytemobile about CT implementation report closed

14:05:18 [DKA]

action-1061?

14:05:18 [trackbot]

ACTION-1061 -- Daniel Appelquist to write the explanatory text for the "further considerations" section. -- due 2010-07-13 -- OPEN

14:05:18 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1061

14:05:30 [DKA]

close action-1061

14:05:30 [trackbot]

ACTION-1061 Write the explanatory text for the "further considerations" section. closed

14:05:41 [DKA]

action-1062?

14:05:41 [trackbot]

ACTION-1062 -- Jo Rabin to formulate action plan with Francois and Dan -- due 2010-07-27 -- OPEN

14:05:41 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1062

14:05:59 [DKA]

close action-1062

14:05:59 [trackbot]

ACTION-1062 Formulate action plan with Francois and Dan closed

14:06:04 [DKA]

action-1066?

14:06:04 [trackbot]

ACTION-1066 -- Adam Connors to enact LC-2415 -- due 2010-08-31 -- OPEN

14:06:04 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1066

14:06:11 [DKA]

Jo: Done.

14:06:17 [DKA]

close action-1066

14:06:17 [trackbot]

ACTION-1066 Enact LC-2415 closed

14:06:21 [DKA]

action-1070?

14:06:21 [trackbot]

ACTION-1070 -- Adam Connors to find prepare a short doc with references to remaining best practices -- due 2010-09-14 -- OPEN

14:06:21 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1070

14:06:43 [DKA]

francois; THis was done.

14:06:53 [DKA]

close action-1070

14:06:53 [trackbot]

ACTION-1070 Find prepare a short doc with references to remaining best practices closed

14:07:02 [DKA]

action-1071?

14:07:02 [trackbot]

ACTION-1071 -- Daniel Appelquist to send inspirational email to working group to get people to send implementation reports on CT -- due 2010-09-14 -- OPEN

14:07:02 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/actions/1071

14:07:04 [francois]

s/francois;/francois:/

14:07:11 [DKA]

didn't feel inspirational.

14:07:14 [francois]

s/THis/This/

14:07:17 [DKA]

close action-1071

14:07:17 [trackbot]

ACTION-1071 Send inspirational email to working group to get people to send implementation reports on CT closed

14:07:25 [DKA]

ok

14:07:56 [DKA]

Jo: 3 actions remain... and that is about it.

14:08:00 [francois]

ACTION: daoust to send transition request to PR for MWABP

14:08:00 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1074 - Send transition request to PR for MWABP [on François Daoust - due 2010-10-05].

14:08:29 [DKA]

jo: anything else?

14:09:04 [DKA]

Jo: Little point in having a call next week (Oct 5 2010) and to resume following transition call.

14:09:09 [DKA]

OK with me.

14:09:14 [EdC]

Ok with me as well.

14:09:15 [DKA]

thx!

14:09:21 [Zakim]

-DKA

14:09:22 [Zakim]

-jo

14:09:23 [Zakim]

-francois

14:09:25 [Zakim]

-adam

14:09:26 [Zakim]

-twhume

14:09:28 [Zakim]

-SeanP

14:09:28 [Zakim]

- +31.97.2.aabb

14:09:28 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()9:30AM has ended

14:09:30 [Zakim]

Attendees were adam, DKA, francois, +44.203.141.aaaa, jo, +31.97.2.aabb, +44.127.381.aacc, twhume, SeanP

14:09:39 [francois]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:09:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-minutes.html francois

14:09:44 [jo]

jo has left #bpwg

16:04:59 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #bpwg

16:05:28 [francois]

RRSAgent, bye

16:05:28 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-actions.rdf :

16:05:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Daoust to prepare distribution of comments for BP2. [1]

16:05:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-irc#T13-46-04

16:05:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jo to talk with Francois about what is needed to enact the above resolution on CT Guidelines [2]

16:05:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-irc#T13-56-57

16:05:28 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: daoust to send transition request to PR for MWABP [3]

16:05:28 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/28-bpwg-irc#T14-08-00