IRC log of eo on 2010-09-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:28:27 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #eo
12:28:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/24-eo-irc
12:28:56 [kate]
kate has joined #eo
12:29:20 [Andrew]
zakim, this will be eowg
12:29:20 [Zakim]
ok, Andrew, I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM already started
12:29:31 [Andrew]
rrsagent, make logs public
12:29:38 [Andrew]
Meeting: EOWG
12:29:42 [Zakim]
+??P5
12:29:46 [Andrew]
Chair: Shawn
12:30:00 [Zakim]
+Shawn
12:30:03 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
12:30:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see doyle, Sharron, ??P5, Shawn
12:30:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see kate, RRSAgent, Zakim, Sharron, Andrew, yeliz, shawn
12:30:08 [shadi]
shadi has joined #eo
12:30:23 [shadi]
zakim, call shadi-617
12:30:23 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; the call is being made
12:30:25 [Zakim]
+Shadi
12:30:42 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
12:30:42 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
12:31:13 [Andrew]
zakim, call andrew-office
12:31:13 [Zakim]
ok, Andrew; the call is being made
12:31:15 [Zakim]
+Andrew
12:31:22 [shawn]
zakim, ??P5 is Kate
12:31:22 [Zakim]
+Kate; got it
12:31:41 [Zakim]
+Jennifer
12:33:00 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
12:33:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see doyle, Sharron, Kate, Shawn, Shadi (muted), Andrew, Jennifer
12:33:02 [Zakim]
On IRC I see shadi, kate, RRSAgent, Zakim, Sharron, Andrew, yeliz, shawn
12:33:03 [Zakim]
+??P9
12:33:09 [yeliz]
zakim, ??P9 is yeliz
12:33:09 [Zakim]
+yeliz; got it
12:33:21 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
12:33:21 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
12:34:20 [shadi]
ack me
12:34:33 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
12:34:33 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
12:34:50 [Zakim]
+Ian
12:35:21 [yeliz]
zakim, unmute yeliz
12:35:21 [Zakim]
yeliz should no longer be muted
12:35:45 [yeliz]
zakim, mute yeliz
12:35:45 [Zakim]
yeliz should now be muted
12:37:06 [Andrew]
topic: Developing Websites for Older People
12:37:44 [shawn]
60# unmute
12:38:31 [Andrew]
scribe: Sharron
12:39:17 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/older-users/developing#captcha
12:39:40 [Sharron]
Shawn: Comments in the survey were mostly editorial, have been done except for the CAPTCHA techniques, which we will discuss
12:40:09 [shadi]
ack me
12:40:47 [Sharron]
Shawn: Ian pointed out that having the callin option at the top of the list made him uncomfortable, and I agree. Rarely are they 24 hour staffed...
12:41:02 [Sharron]
Jennifer: or staffed at all
12:41:33 [Sharron]
Andrew: another comment was that people with multiple impairments can not use any of the alternatives
12:41:34 [sylvie]
sylvie has joined #eo
12:41:42 [Zakim]
+Sylvie
12:41:55 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
12:41:55 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
12:42:05 [Sharron]
Shadi: and it is easier, in his opinion to use that option. It may work for large orgs, but in my opinion not for all organziations
12:42:45 [sylvie]
zakim, mute sylvie
12:42:45 [Zakim]
Sylvie should now be muted
12:42:46 [Andrew]
Present: Doyle, Sharron, Kate, Shawn, Shadi, Andrew, Jennifer, Sylvie
12:43:02 [Sharron]
Ian: This should not be a first solution. You should do everything possible to make your site accessible first before forcing people to seek a solution that is not Internet based. This is a last resort.
12:43:12 [Sharron]
Shawn: Any other aspects to discuss?
12:43:24 [Sharron]
Ian: would like to know the opinion of others
12:44:15 [Sharron]
Doyle: I agree and would add that it is like providing text only rather than actually addressing the issues on your site. The possibility of getting in tyouch with a live person might be a nice thing, but should not be considered and accessibility option.
12:44:23 [Sharron]
Sharron: I agree
12:45:06 [yeliz]
I agree with Ian and Sharron
12:45:47 [Sharron]
Shawn: You should absolutely do the other techniques. Since some people would be more comfortable picking up the phone.
12:46:11 [Sharron]
...so it is a good enhancement, no reason to exclude it, but offer it as just one option.
12:46:32 [Sharron]
Andrew: I put it back in the middle, sort of burries it, demphasizes it.
12:46:34 [yeliz]
I also like it's current location
12:46:44 [Sharron]
Shawn: Yes I noticed and think that is a good solution.
12:46:46 [sinarmaya]
sinarmaya has joined #eo
12:47:37 [Sharron]
...Next point is to review comments, thanks to everyone who replied in email. Any concerns with draft reply?
12:47:45 [Sharron]
Jennifer: No concerns
12:47:52 [Sharron]
Sharron: no concerns
12:48:05 [yeliz]
:)
12:48:40 [shadi]
ack me
12:48:52 [Sharron]
Jennifer: We have looked at two comments, in one of the drafts, Shadi's name was spelled wrong. You may want to check that.
12:48:56 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
12:48:56 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
12:49:30 [Sharron]
ACTION: Andrew to check signature line for spelling
12:50:48 [Sharron]
Shawn: Confirm the plan to publish. We wil post to the final URI and point to it. But will wait to announce it until after we refine and reintegrate expand/collapse function.
12:51:12 [Andrew]
completed doc - http://www.w3.org/WAI/older-users/developing
12:51:40 [Sharron]
...high on our priority list is to address the problems we have had with it after 4 years.
12:52:13 [Sharron]
...remove the word DRAFT and put it where it will be. After we fix the expand/collapse, we will announce. How does that sound?
12:52:17 [Sharron]
All: Fine
12:52:32 [shadi]
ack me
12:52:48 [Sharron]
Topic: How People with Disabilities Use the Web
12:53:29 [Sharron]
Shawn: Last week we addressed the comments related to sign language use. Shadi has now drafted proposed updates to those sections based on comments. Shadi?
12:54:09 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/scenarios#onlinestudent
12:54:11 [Andrew]
-> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/scenarios#onlinestudent Scenario 3: Online student who is hard of hearing
12:54:12 [Sharron]
Shadi: Comments are linked from the agenda. Debate within our group that relate to needs of deaf and hard of hearing community
12:55:10 [shawn]
zakim, who is making noise?
12:55:14 [Sharron]
...We have two scenarios relating to deafness, also number 8. But we will focus onScenario 3 -
12:55:22 [Zakim]
shawn, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Kate (8%)
12:56:05 [Sharron]
...one of the disconnects was that it failed to resonate with the public and caused some reactions from advocates. Has been toned down as a result.
12:58:00 [Sharron]
Shadi: Removed: {Her preferred form of communication is sign language which she uses whenever she can.} Added:[She can hear some sounds but not enough to understand all spoken words.]
12:58:19 [sylvie]
zakim, unmute sylvie
12:58:19 [Zakim]
Sylvie should no longer be muted
12:58:19 [yeliz]
Ok with me as well
12:58:21 [Sharron]
Shawn: How does this cahnge work for everyone?
12:58:27 [Sharron]
Doyle: OK
12:58:31 [Sharron]
Jennifer: OK
12:59:03 [Sharron]
Shawn: You will have more time to review
12:59:28 [Sharron]
Sylvie: For me now it is no longer clear if the person is using sign language or not.
12:59:48 [Sharron]
...I would think "what does she need, really"
13:00:16 [Sharron]
Shawn: I wonder if you just say "most speech" rather than some sounds
13:00:45 [Sharron]
...she is comfortable or her native language is sign language
13:01:38 [Sharron]
Shawn: If sign language is in the scenario at all, it should be mentioned as her native language or her familiarity with it.
13:02:30 [Sharron]
Shadi: There are many reasons to include a reference to sign language - it is something people really do use. Second mentioning it makes the association of accomodation in the real world and how it relates to online accomodation.
13:02:48 [Sharron]
...is anyone uncomfortable with keeping the reference to sign language.
13:02:53 [Sharron]
All: No
13:03:19 [Andrew]
q+ to mention written language
13:03:31 [Sharron]
Shadi: OK that's good to know. Then we can reference her comfort with Sign and the fact that she has known it since use.
13:03:36 [Andrew]
ack me
13:03:36 [Zakim]
Andrew, you wanted to mention written language
13:03:42 [Sharron]
ACTION: Shadi to extend sentence about Sign
13:04:19 [Sharron]
Andrew: In conjunction with her familiarity with sign, make the distinction that the written language is not a problem for her.
13:04:29 [shadi]
action: shadi - scenario 3 - explain that Ms.Martinez knows and uses both written and sign language
13:04:45 [Sharron]
Shawn: is fluent in both. Is a positive perspective.
13:05:28 [shawn]
action: shadi - scenario 3 - Ms.Martinez is fluent in both written language and sign language
13:05:39 [Andrew]
-. http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/disabilities#deafness Deafness
13:05:53 [Andrew]
s/-./->/
13:06:19 [sylvie]
zakim, mute me
13:06:19 [Zakim]
Sylvie should now be muted
13:07:09 [Sharron]
Shadi: Next bullet called Deafness. Will have an introductory paragraph that may remove some of the pointy-ness. Here tried to remove the prominence of the reference to written language.
13:07:41 [Sharron]
...Removed [For some people, sign language is the first language and they may or may not read a written language fluently, or speak clearly. They may therefore require simpler language that is supplemented by images, graphs, and other illustrations to make the written language more understandable.]
13:08:05 [Sharron]
...Added {Some may also rely on simpler language that is supplemented by images, graphs, and other illustrations to highlight the context. Some prefer sign language as an alternative to text or audio. However, not all people who are deaf know sign language.}
13:09:00 [Sharron]
Shadi: What are you comments or thoughts about this?
13:09:47 [Sharron]
Doyle: Seems OK. Last night I was speaking with a native Sign speaker. The Deaf culture doe not see itself as disabled. This captures that pretty good.
13:10:49 [Sharron]
Andrew: Maybe a bit more of a qualifier here. Many deaf people read written language well, BUT sign is often the first language
13:11:00 [Sharron]
Shadi: Need to be so defensive?
13:11:12 [Sharron]
Andrew: don't know, raising it for consideration
13:11:19 [Sharron]
Doyle: Doesn't hurt
13:11:31 [Sharron]
Shadi: OK, other thoughts?
13:11:48 [Sharron]
Shawn: Most people who are deaf are fluent in written language. Is that true?
13:11:55 [Sharron]
Shadi: Not sure
13:12:14 [Sharron]
Doyle: Many people become deaf over time, it could easily be true.
13:12:23 [Sharron]
Shadi: Yes, numbers get tricky
13:13:00 [Sharron]
...could try something like hmmm, have to look for stats.
13:13:24 [Sharron]
Shawn: Editor's discretion to see if it can be done smoothly?
13:13:30 [shadi]
[[While most people with deafness are fluent in written language, for some people sign language is their primary language.]]
13:14:57 [Zakim]
-Ian
13:15:27 [shadi]
action: shadi - deafness - consider re-emphasizing the fluency in written language for most/many people who are deaf
13:16:21 [Sharron]
Shadi: Move along to hard of hearing in next section.
13:17:01 [Andrew]
-> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/disabilities#hardofhearing hard of hearing
13:17:04 [Sharron]
...Removed: {To use the Web, people who are hard of hearing may rely on amplification of volume, transcripts, or captions for audio content. They may also rely on media players that display captions provided for audio content, on options to turn off any background audio, and on options to adjust the volume of the foreground audio. Some people who are heard of hearing may use sign language as the primary form of communication.}
13:17:26 [Sharron]
...Added: [To use the Web, people who are hard of hearing increase the volume to better hear audio content or use transcripts and captions to read the information. They rely on media players that display captions provided for audio content, provide options to turn off any background audio, and options to adjust the volume of the foreground audio. Some people who are heard of hearing use sign language as a form of communication.]
13:17:30 [yeliz]
I am OK with this change
13:17:33 [Zakim]
+Ian
13:18:18 [Sharron]
Shadi: In barriers as well, the references to written language have been removed as well so that there re fewer of those.
13:18:22 [shawn]
==== ROUGH IDEA for http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/disabilities#deafness: Many people who are deaf are fluent in written langauge and rely on transcripts or captions for audio content, and on media players that display the captions. Sign language is the first language of some people and some are not very fluent in written language and need simpler language that is supplemented by images, graphs, and other illustrations to make the written language
13:18:27 [Sharron]
...any comments here?
13:18:59 [sinarmaya]
I suggest: ... Some people who are heard of hearing use sign language as their primary form of communication.
13:19:40 [Sharron]
Shadi: Emmanuel advocating for reference to Sign
13:20:14 [Sharron]
...do you have more about your reasons/
13:20:23 [sinarmaya]
but not in the last paragraph :-)
13:20:38 [sinarmaya]
my comment was about the previous paragraph
13:21:48 [Sharron]
Shawn: Commenting on the change from "primary" to "a" form of communication
13:22:05 [Sharron]
Shawn: I wondered too why you took that out.
13:22:45 [Sharron]
Shadi: for some it is not primary, for some it is a known language but not fluent, and some don't know it all
13:22:52 [sinarmaya]
because for they is not only a form or don't have the same value as the others forms
13:23:08 [Sharron]
Shawn: Oh yes, we are in hard of hearing, not deafness. Then is it important to have it at all?
13:23:17 [sinarmaya]
Yes, I agree, is not equal for all
13:23:56 [Sharron]
Shadi: Yes, it depends on the level of hearing loss. It is true that sign language speakers are not only deaf people. It is fairly common for hard of hearing to use sign. Should mention
13:24:00 [Sharron]
Shawn: why?
13:24:46 [sinarmaya]
Yes, and in the example said that she are hard of hearing from the childhood, so probably the sign language is very important for she.
13:25:11 [sinarmaya]
I think that this is an exterme example of hard of hearing ;-)
13:25:24 [Sharron]
...I ahve no idea where the differentiations are between hard of hearing and where it is that the lines of demarcation are made. So since we have just looked at deafness not sure why we need to reemphasize.
13:25:33 [Sharron]
...maybe include and make it shorter.
13:26:10 [Sharron]
Shadi: The difference between visual and auditory disabilities are cultural. Other factors come in , not just the level of hearing.
13:27:19 [sinarmaya]
cultural and legal. Can be different in each country.
13:28:03 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/browsing#sign
13:28:06 [Sharron]
Shadi: Let's quickly go through next two placeholder sections. Not much to review as yet.
13:28:39 [Andrew]
[[the elderly mother of a freind of mine in Canada is effectively deaf and has always been, but didn't have the opportunity to learn sign language in rural Canad when she was achild - she is expert at lip reading]]
13:28:50 [Sharron]
...I updated what the section will contain. Will explain what sign language is, who uses it, who does not and the exisitance and limitations of Sign language avatars.
13:29:27 [Sharron]
Shadi: Need anything else?
13:29:49 [Sharron]
Shawn: Maybe that there are different sign languages just as there are different spoken language
13:30:02 [sinarmaya]
Maybe that in some countries there are a standard about how make sign language videos for the web. As in Spain ;-)
13:30:21 [Sharron]
Doyle: Yes and that syntactically Sign is quite distinct from written and spoken languages
13:30:32 [shadi]
action: shadi - sign language - mention that sign languages are different from country to country (ASL, BSL, ...); also that it is significantly different from written language (grammar)
13:30:43 [Sharron]
Shadi: good, anything else?
13:31:08 [Andrew]
[and that even in english speaking countries, the sign language is different between countries]
13:31:08 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/2009/browsing#captions
13:31:25 [Sharron]
...now to the 4th , captions and transcripts
13:32:10 [Sharron]
Shadi: One of the issues is that Captions and Transcripts is the subject line, does not include CART becasue it is a method to provide captions.
13:32:24 [Sharron]
Shawn: For live broadcasts, right?
13:32:32 [Sharron]
Andrew: any live envet
13:32:53 [Sharron]
...as a technique for providing captions, it does not need to be in the heading
13:33:19 [shawn]
[ for editor - shadi: explanation of CART (that was vetted with this same commenter): http://www.w3.org/WAI/training/accessible.php#cart ]
13:33:35 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:33:35 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:33:38 [Sharron]
Shadi: Disabilities and barriers page will be changed and we will talk more about it next week.
13:34:00 [Sharron]
Shawn: Any other questions or comments about this?
13:34:10 [Sharron]
...Ok then next topic
13:34:29 [Sharron]
Topic: Usability/Accessibility Document
13:35:18 [Sharron]
Shawn: Shadi too a significant pass at how to approach and frame this topic. Still in rough draft stage. need your feedback, not at the wordsmithing area, but more general. Right approach?
13:35:35 [Andrew]
s/too a/took a/
13:35:56 [yeliz]
:)
13:36:11 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-accessibility-n-usability#why
13:36:13 [Sharron]
...first section is Goals, Objectives
13:36:43 [Sharron]
Andrew: reads four bullet points
13:37:40 [Sharron]
Shawn: Overall comments about purpose and goals? Notice that primary audience includes policy people, researchers, students, etc
13:38:06 [Sharron]
...secondary audience is developers, etc. So keep in mind we are targeting a very different primary audience
13:39:35 [shadi]
ack me
13:40:18 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:40:18 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:41:04 [shadi]
ack me
13:41:12 [Sharron]
Shawn: We are likely to spend most of the rest of this meeting on this document as I will be away next week. let's go through the scenarios. Shadi can you point our highlights and let's discuss?
13:42:57 [Sharron]
Shadi: Scenario 1 is a situation that spawned this document. Researchers working with older people who make general recommendations that mix up accessibility and usability but fail to relate to exisitng standards. Results in fragmentation and researchers lack some web specific knowledge about accessibility support, relationships between user agents and web technologies, etc
13:43:50 [Sharron]
...results tend to be limited. Initially good work and observations but lack the cross references that would make it more useful an allow for the research to contribute.
13:43:59 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:43:59 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:44:04 [Sharron]
Shawn: Comments?
13:44:59 [Sharron]
Doyle: I would agree that it is important. The research does not include mush that has already been done. How to think about adancing the field.
13:45:43 [shadi]
ack me
13:45:51 [Andrew]
s/adancing/advancing
13:46:00 [shawn]
Sharron: how get this information to people?! outreach
13:47:01 [yeliz]
:)
13:47:38 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:47:38 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:47:42 [shadi]
ack me
13:47:46 [Sharron]
Shadi: As we think about the target audience. Maybe to get to other researchers is through advocates, other researchers, etc. Is this our immediate target audience or our end user audience?
13:48:06 [shadi]
zakim, mute me
13:48:06 [Zakim]
Shadi should now be muted
13:48:14 [Sharron]
...are we addressing it as speaking directly to the research community or by way of others.
13:48:24 [yeliz]
I think both are important
13:49:02 [Sharron]
Shawn: We have been focussing on finishing up the WAI-AGE documents but then will be refocusing EO priorities with this whole group of new resources.
13:49:47 [Sharron]
...Better Web Browsing, overlap with aging documents, How to report...etc. So outreach will come.
13:49:50 [Zakim]
-Jennifer
13:50:02 [shadi]
ack me
13:52:08 [Sharron]
Shadi: Let's look at scenario 2. A longer standing issue. Researchers in accessibility field tend to look at it through the lens of conformance. Excellent work by researchers, but the conclusions often fail to recognize aspects of usability. Auto-testing, sites that claim conformance demonstrate a gap in actual accessibility.
13:53:04 [Sharron]
...technically accessible because it conforms to WCAG (most research still is WCAG1) but not actually usable by people with disabilities.
13:53:48 [Sharron]
...need to use the framework of WCAG2 to examine the tension between technical accessiblity vs real accessibility
13:54:12 [Sharron]
Doyle: Isn't it odd that these research projects occur in such isolation?
13:55:07 [Zakim]
+Jennifer
13:57:18 [Sharron]
...this is an important topic and low hanging fruit. It is a next step for researchers to connect the work that exists. An easy and important step.
13:58:17 [Sharron]
Shadi: There is also some sensitivity between research community and industry. Want to be positive about work that has been done and be encouraging about connecting these fields.
13:59:05 [Sharron]
Shadi: Scenario 3 has an A & B part. Addresses the complexity of the standards documents
13:59:45 [Sharron]
...want to be candid about recognizing that but also suggest that people not jump right into standards with no background.
14:00:40 [Sharron]
...expalin that we are working on improving entries to the documents so that there are steps to take people into the technical documents.
14:00:55 [Sharron]
Doyle: Where will this point to for the basic?
14:01:22 [Sharron]
Shadi: Good question...probably to Involving Users, How People.., a few other resources
14:01:41 [Sharron]
Shawn: Comments or questions? How does this seem to fit?
14:03:01 [Sharron]
Doyle: not well
14:03:09 [Sharron]
Sharron: I think it fits well.
14:04:04 [Sharron]
Shawn: Anyone who has seen my talks, knows that I encourage people to look first at introductory documents.
14:04:23 [Sharron]
...but not sure it fits as a scenario. Not a primary theme.
14:04:59 [sinarmaya]
I think that an introductory document don't feet the needs of a developer new in this field. Maybe the "Undersanding wcag 2.0 " can be more useful
14:05:07 [Sharron]
Andrew: To address scenario 1 and scenario 2 we can encourage them to start with the right material.
14:05:42 [Sharron]
Shawn: We need to define: Is this a step-by-step how to do things better? or is it a philisophical document?
14:05:59 [sinarmaya]
and for the researchers, a document about how review accessibility.
14:06:29 [Sharron]
Jeneifer: You are getting at the heart of the question. When I read this, it seemed very much like a philisophical document. I don't have a preference, but it is a decision that needs to be made.
14:06:55 [Sharron]
Shadi: Just to mention that this document doesn't need to be related with conformance.
14:07:05 [Sharron]
...it is a provisional title.
14:07:06 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/WAI-AGE/deliverables.html#overlap
14:07:30 [sylvie]
I am sorry, I have to leave the call, have a good week-end, bye
14:07:35 [Sharron]
Shadi: it is wide open.
14:07:42 [Zakim]
-Sylvie
14:08:02 [Sharron]
Shawn: Good point. Maybe one of the things we should do is play with totally different title and approach.
14:09:24 [Sharron]
Shadi: 3B is more the developer perspective and may be out of sync with the rest. I am torn between the perspectives of Doyle and Sharron
14:10:08 [shadi]
[[Marying Accessibility and Usability]]
14:10:11 [Sharron]
Shawn: it may be fun to brainstorm titles and approach. Marrying Accessibility and Usability...something that says we should look at these together
14:10:26 [shadi]
[[Understanding how Accessibility Fits with Blah]]
14:11:33 [Sharron]
Shadi: Scenario 4 relates to widgits and being able to customize web sites to accomodate preferences. Such as the BBC site where customization is possible for many different user needs.
14:11:55 [Sharron]
Jennifer: Is this where the understanding of user agents comes in?
14:12:03 [Sharron]
Ian: A bit of a mine field there
14:12:18 [sinarmaya]
Shadi: It is not related with the conformance, but the escneario 2 talks about the confusion created when a site says a level of compliance and the results of automatic review. Therefore, for these people is important to know the right conditions for review of accessibility. ;-)
14:12:49 [Sharron]
Shadi: Yes, the perspectives range from users whould make those changes on their own end to saying users may not have the technical expertise to customize from thier end.
14:13:48 [Sharron]
...so what is realistic to expect from users? Good arguments can be made on both sides. What conslusions or recommendations do we make?
14:14:05 [Sharron]
Ian: Will we address the accessibility of the widgit controls themselves?
14:14:47 [Sharron]
Shadi: Have not gotten that far. have just tried to lay out messages that are of interest.
14:16:43 [Sharron]
Ian: BBC provides good instructions of how to work the widgits. It comes at a cost.
14:16:55 [Sharron]
Shadi: Does this topic fit?
14:17:48 [Sharron]
Ian: It feels slightly different than other topics. We would need to give concrete recommendations rather than it being philisophical.
14:18:16 [Sharron]
Shawn: How it fits and how we approch it will depend on how we define the document.
14:19:01 [Sharron]
Shadi: Scenario 5 is quite interesting in the combiniation of the interests of both researchers and developers.
14:19:56 [Sharron]
...provision of very targeted content, such as e-learning environments. User groups really need different type of approach that entails preparing content differently.
14:20:29 [Sharron]
...discussion of the one-size-fits-all concept and the myth that WCAG is proscribing that.
14:21:58 [Sharron]
...in fact WCAG not only supports but actively requires adaptive methods of presentation. WCAG can actually help you address various needs.
14:22:30 [Sharron]
Ian: Has a great deal of crossover in supporting mobile, etc.
14:22:48 [Sharron]
Shadi: yes
14:23:21 [shadi]
action: shadi - usability/accessibility changelog - scenario 5 - add "devices" to title
14:23:30 [Sharron]
Shawn: Questions and myths to consider have not changed, but please feel free to add to those.
14:23:40 [shawn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/changelogs/cl-accessibility-n-usability#who
14:23:57 [Sharron]
...if no additions right now, let's go back to the audience.
14:25:34 [Sharron]
Shadi: If the primary audience includes researchers and technical policy developers - the question is, do we have the right messaging in the scenarios?
14:26:14 [sinarmaya]
About the audience: is "researcher" the best term in english? Is not better: "analyst"?
14:26:53 [Sharron]
...I think the point of orienting researchers to accessibility, we should think about the best ways to do that.
14:27:37 [Sharron]
Shawn: We are trying to reach xyz document but know they are unlikely to come here. So we will empower advocates to reach xyz audience.
14:27:47 [Sharron]
...is that the situation here?
14:28:14 [Sharron]
...will researchers come to this document or are we trying to reach those people through another audience?
14:28:53 [Sharron]
Jennifer: I was stuck by the same point. if they are unaware of this as an area of study, how will we get them here?
14:29:59 [Sharron]
Shawn: Maybe we need to think early on is what is the outreach strategy to get the messages out and then how will the document facilitate the outreach?
14:30:49 [Sharron]
...keep the discuaaion in mind. We will bring this back in two weeks. The first full week of Oct we will take up this discussion again. will look at the next draft at that time.
14:32:06 [Sharron]
...next week, will discuss "How People..." We are now bringing pieces of the documents in for final sign off. Want to relook at requirements of WAI-AGE document. Focusing on key messaging and tilte, Andrew has reformmatted.
14:32:40 [Sharron]
...may have addiitonal work on that next week. The bulk of what's there is ready for review. Skim and we will let you know if we update.
14:32:54 [Sharron]
Jennifer: Can we footnote the statisitics?
14:33:00 [Zakim]
-Ian
14:33:00 [Sharron]
Andrew: yep, working on that.
14:33:34 [Zakim]
-Jennifer
14:33:42 [Zakim]
-Shawn
14:33:42 [Sharron]
Shawn: Great, will post what's ready for review early next week. Bye for now.
14:33:44 [Zakim]
-doyle
14:33:52 [Zakim]
-yeliz
14:33:56 [Zakim]
-Andrew
14:33:58 [Zakim]
-Shadi
14:34:17 [shadi]
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14:34:19 [Sharron]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:34:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/24-eo-minutes.html Sharron
14:34:22 [sinarmaya]
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14:34:30 [Zakim]
-Sharron
14:35:48 [Zakim]
-Kate
14:35:48 [Zakim]
WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended
14:35:50 [Zakim]
Attendees were doyle, Sharron, Shawn, Shadi, Andrew, Kate, Jennifer, yeliz, Ian, Sylvie
14:45:18 [yeliz]
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15:17:02 [Andrew]
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