01:38:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #CSS
01:38:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/23-CSS-irc
01:38:48 <fantasai> Topic: CSS3 Text
01:39:01 <fantasai> Present: Murakami-san, Ishii-san, fantasai
01:39:04 <fantasai> Scribe: fantasai
01:39:09 <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
01:39:42 <fantasai> M: The line breaking strictness and word-break should be separate properties
01:39:47 <fantasai> M: The old version is better, with two properties
01:40:53 <fantasai> M shows a proposal from Toppan Printing and Sony Corp for EPUB requirements
01:41:40 <fantasai> M: They propos characters-not-starting-line property and characters-not-ending-line property
01:41:46 <fantasai> f: um.....
01:43:09 <fantasai> M: They have a default 'none' value. I think the default value should be 'auto'
01:44:25 <fantasai> f: I would prefer to have Kobayashi-sensei define several levels of strictness
01:44:39 <fantasai> f: If individual character control is needed by some people, that can be an additional level of control.
01:45:52 <fantasai> I: If I think about authors writing HTML with text editors, I agree with you.
01:50:02 <fantasai> I: But if I assume most users will be using editing tools, each can have different preset
01:50:45 <fantasai> f argues that CSS is a dynamic layout format, and this level of control is excessive when you can't even control the font size
01:53:19 <fantasai> [unminuted discussion]
01:56:31 <fantasai> also that authors shouldn't have to deal with this low-level of control
02:15:09 <fantasai> discuss having line-break: loose \ normal | strict and having a separate property as a diff against the default set of restrictions
02:41:14 <fantasai> We study a matrix of breaking options
02:41:27 <fantasai> CJK breaking restrictions on one axis, non-CJK breaking restrictions on another
02:41:40 <fantasai> question is, do we need two properties, or is one linear axis of strictness enough
03:01:32 <fantasai> Current proposal:
03:01:44 <fantasai> break-non-CJK: break-all | hyphenate | keep-together
03:01:55 <fantasai> break-CJK: newspaper | normal | strict | keep-together
03:02:01 <fantasai> defaults are
03:02:06 <fantasai>  break-non-CJK: keep-together
03:02:11 <fantasai>  break-CJK: normal
03:02:42 <fantasai> break-CJK: keep-together is used for Korean and (known to be) non-CJK texts
03:02:47 <fantasai> Discuss naming and IE compat
03:02:51 <fantasai> Current proposal:
03:02:59 <fantasai> word-break: break-all | hyphenate | normal
03:03:10 <fantasai> ine-break: newspaper | normal | strict | keep-all
03:03:14 <fantasai> s/ine/line/
03:03:32 <fantasai> This is compatible with IE except that IE's "word-break: keep-all" is "line-break: keep-all"
03:03:49 <fantasai> The change is so that one property deals only with non-CJK and one property deals with only CJK -- it is a more logical division
03:04:04 <fantasai> Question: how are fullwidth characters treated? As CJK or non-CJK?
03:04:18 <fantasai> Murakami-san and Ishii-san suspect as CJK. UAX14 confirms.
03:11:17 <fantasai> <br type="lunch">
04:05:53 <fantasai> M and I are studying the white-space controls in css3-text
04:17:21 <fantasai> Topic: text-emphasis
04:17:37 <fantasai> fantasai reviewed Ken Lunde's chart of emphasis shapes
04:17:49 <fantasai> suggested syntax:
04:18:21 <fantasai> [ filled | open ] || [ dot | circle | double-circle | triangle | sesame ]
04:18:55 <fantasai> Suggestion to rename "filled" to "solid"
04:19:02 <fantasai> But it is confusing with double-circle
04:19:18 <fantasai> Ishii-san also points out it could be confused with a solid-stroke circle vs. dotted-stroke circle
04:19:24 <fantasai> Seem to be settling on "filled"
04:19:49 <fantasai> Filled is the default
04:20:10 <fantasai> If the shape is left out, then it computes to "dot" in horizontal writing mode and "sesame" in vertical writing mode
04:25:42 <fantasai> Murakami-san notes that we need text-emphasis-color
04:25:55 <fantasai> Discussing options for text-emphasis-position
04:26:01 <fantasai> current values in the spec are before | after
04:26:23 <fantasai> but does this make sense in Mongolian writing mode, where the before edge doesn't coincide with the "top" edge of the line?
04:26:51 <fantasai> Ishii-san suggests an 'auto' value, that maps from the language to the correct side
04:27:01 <fantasai> Japanese uses above in horizontal; Chinese uses below
04:28:00 <fantasai> We would need a chart in the spec
04:33:19 <fantasai> probably use "before" for Japanese and traditional chinese, "after" for everything else
04:33:32 <fantasai> (We have examples of Tibetan text using after.)
04:34:48 <fantasai> Question: Should text-emphasis marks be applied to punctuation?
04:39:08 <fantasai> JLTF document says not to apply them to commas, full stops, opening brackets (cl-01) or closing brackets (cl-02)
04:39:56 <fantasai> should also skip spaces
04:40:59 <fantasai> If text-emphasis dots conflict with ruby, they should be skipped
04:41:33 <fantasai> alternatively, the ruby or dots sides can be switched?
04:42:49 <fantasai> Settled on making the dots go away; it's the author's responsibility to use text-emphasis-position or ruby-position to avoid such conflicts
04:48:00 <fantasai> Proposed starting point: follow suggested rules for which punctuation gets emphasized in JLTF document. All punctuation not mentioned in that document gets skipped.
04:53:26 <fantasai> Back to text-emphasis-position
04:58:25 <fantasai> and the fact that in Mongolian text the before edge is on the left but the top of a line is on the right
04:58:30 <fantasai> Suggestion:
04:58:35 <fantasai> text-emphasis-position: above | below
04:58:52 <fantasai> to avoid confusion with 'before' and 'after' terminology
05:01:32 <fantasai> Changed to above | below, marked as issue for feedback
05:01:47 <fantasai> Would need corresponding changes to css3-ruby, though.
05:02:46 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #css
05:03:38 <fantasai> Question: should emphasis dots factor into the line height?
05:03:51 <fantasai> f suggests it should follow the same rules as for ruby, whatever those are
05:04:47 <shepazu> fantasai: just turning in, though... attending Web Directions USA in Atlanta
05:05:11 <shepazu> that makes sense... I personally don't think that any glyph characteristics should factor into line height, only the "glyph/character cell" and the font size
05:11:26 <fantasai> Discussing justification now
05:11:46 <fantasai> M asks what inter-word is for. It's for e.g. Latin texts, where CJK should not space out
05:11:55 <fantasai> M and I want more details for auto
05:12:10 <fantasai> f suggests providing examples; doesn't want to recommend anything because there are many different ways of being smart
05:13:55 <fantasai> Discuss kashida value.
05:14:07 <fantasai> It's for Arabic, which has two methods of justification: stretching glyphs, or stretching spaces
05:14:18 <fantasai> "clustered" should probably shift to 3rd priority
05:14:28 <fantasai> Everything except those two would be a fallback case
05:20:01 <fantasai> Discussion of what would be a good default justification algorithm for all scripts
05:20:11 <fantasai> Probably like distribute, but with "discrete" dropped to 2nd priority
05:25:34 <fantasai> Ishii-san suggests having that as an example for 'auto' to encourage UAs to do something that works better for non discrete scripts
05:33:18 <fantasai> Murakami-san draws up the chart for this
05:33:38 <fantasai> M: This should be the baseline. The UA can do better, but this would be the suggestion in the chart
05:34:02 <fantasai> fantasai notes to self that the "connected" and "cursive" categories probably should be last priority for all groups...
05:35:01 <fantasai> Note to previous discussion: add <string> as possible value for text-emphasis-style
05:46:00 <fantasai> short break
05:46:04 <fantasai> Topic: punctuation-trim
05:46:37 <kennyluck> fantasai, can I make the log public?
05:46:41 <fantasai> oh
05:46:42 <fantasai> yeah
05:46:48 <fantasai> I forgot to do that
05:46:52 <kennyluck> RSSAgent, make log public.
05:46:58 <fantasai> It's publicly logged at krijnh's site anyway :)
05:47:04 <kennyluck> RRSAgent, make log public.
05:47:15 <fantasai> RRSAgent: make logs public
05:47:42 <fantasai> M: Current draft is ok, but we need more options
05:48:01 <fantasai> M writes "start-except-first-line"
05:48:45 <fantasai> f: We had a previous version that had none | start | start-edge | end-edge | hyphens
05:48:59 <fantasai> f: oh wait, that's hanging-punctuation
05:49:18 <fantasai> M pulls up an example
05:49:44 <kennyluck> kennyluck has joined #CSS
05:50:57 <fantasai> M: Here is some plaintext. Paragraph breaks represented by line breaks, indent represented as space
05:51:08 <fantasai> M: Open parentheses replaces the indent space
05:51:47 <fantasai> f: you could handle that type of formatting, if you had markup, with hanging-idnent: start
05:54:33 <fantasai> s/start/first/
05:56:24 <fantasai> p {
05:56:28 <fantasai>   margin: 0;
05:56:32 <fantasai>   text-indent: 1em;
05:56:35 <fantasai>   hanging-punctuation: first;
05:56:39 <fantasai>   punctuation-trim: start adjacent end;
05:56:41 <fantasai> }
05:56:49 <fantasai> (M writing into his notebook)
06:00:12 <fantasai> M: This works if I have correct markup with <p> and use text-indent for indentation
06:00:28 <fantasai> But if someone is using ideographic space for indentation
06:00:38 <fantasai> Then a fullwidth opening bracket should not be trimmedon the first page
06:01:18 <fantasai> Ishii-san, fantasai: This is incorrect markup. The space should not be there. The text should be transformed to correct markup.
06:02:28 <fantasai> Ishii-san, fantasai: Run a preprocessor.
06:02:39 <fantasai> on the source
06:09:34 <fantasai> Topic: text-justify-trim
06:10:18 <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/CR-css3-text-20030514/#text-justify-trim-prop
06:11:07 <fantasai> f: How does this interact with punctuation-trim?
06:11:56 <fantasai> M: This interacts with line-breaking
06:39:55 <fantasai> whiteboard work
06:40:10 <fantasai> Draw a bunch of boxes. One half-width box with a bracket followed by a fullwidth bracket
06:40:17 <fantasai> one box on the second line
06:40:26 <fantasai> two half-shaded boxes (trimmable) on the first line
06:40:33 <fantasai> Notes on conclusions:
06:41:00 <fantasai> * First, apply punctuation-trim. (This is like kerning; it effectively changes the width of the characters.)
06:42:59 <fantasai> * If everything fits perfectly, no text-justify-trim
06:43:13 <fantasai> * If hanging punctuation solves the gapping problem, no tjt
06:43:38 <fantasai> * If tjt would prevent gap at end of line, apply tjt. Does not have to be in fixed increments: arbitrary trimming amounts ok.
06:43:51 <fantasai> * Q: relative priority to other justification methods?
06:44:03 <fantasai> Suggestion: text-justify: inter-ideograph punctuation-trim;
06:44:31 <fantasai> Define relative priority in text-justify definition/charts
06:44:44 <fantasai> * Japanese (CJK?) favors compression. Other scripts favor expansion.
06:45:06 <fantasai> * tjt might be applied even when not justifying
06:45:13 <fantasai> text-justify: punctuation-trim; ?
06:46:57 <fantasai> i.e. if text-align is not justify and text-justify has punctuation-trim, apply the trim?
06:47:19 <kennyluck> RRSAgent, make minutes.
06:47:19 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes.', kennyluck.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
06:49:10 <kennyluck> RRSAgent, draft minutes.
06:49:10 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minutes.', kennyluck.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
06:49:18 <fantasai> RRSAgent: make minutes
06:49:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/23-CSS-minutes.html fantasai
06:49:30 <fantasai> kennyluck: he's fussy about punctuation :)
06:49:43 <kennyluck> RRSAgent、make minutes
06:50:12 <kennyluck> Huh
06:51:57 <fantasai> kennyluck: that looks like ideographic comma. 
06:52:01 <fantasai> kennyluck: try ascii comma
06:52:02 <fantasai> :P
06:52:18 <fantasai> M: Maybe text-justify: avoid-trim; 
06:52:26 <fantasai> M: Allow punctuation-trim by default
06:53:21 <fantasai> f: Doesn't make sense for most other scripts.
06:53:56 <fantasai> Do we want inter-ideograph to punctuation-trim by default?
06:54:46 <fantasai> f: What if you want inter-ideograph without punctuation-trim?
06:55:45 <fantasai> ...
06:56:04 <fantasai> M: Default of punctuation-trim is 'none'. That's not good for Japanese layout. You want "start adjacent end"
06:56:21 <fantasai> M: You also would want text-justify: inter-ideograph punctuation-trim; for Japanese
06:56:46 <fantasai> M: But that doesn't need to be the default
07:01:04 <fantasai> Looking at punctuation-trim. Is there a problem with making the default not 'none'?
07:01:23 <fantasai> Some trimmed characters are not FULLWIDTH characters, but are stndard punctuation, which may not be full width
07:05:10 <fantasai> :lang(ja) { punctuation-trim: start adjacent end; }
07:06:06 <fantasai> We should add an Appendix with suggested rules for the default style sheet
07:06:20 <fantasai> this can be one of them
07:07:12 <fantasai> We could even do this instead of the 'auto' value for text-emphasis
07:07:32 <fantasai> although that might not work so well if we have a shorthand that resets text-emphasis-position...
07:13:32 <fantasai> Murakami-san writes into his notebook:
07:13:49 <fantasai>   text-justify: auto | [ [inter-word|...] || trim ]
07:14:02 <fantasai>   text-justify: trim; means prefer trimming, but do auto
07:14:13 <fantasai> auto is allowed to use trim, although it should be careful about when it does so
07:14:18 <fantasai> trim means prefer compression to expansion
07:14:26 <fantasai> and allows trimming of punctuation
07:14:53 <fantasai> text-justify: inter-word trim; means trim punctuation and compress spaces first priority; if that doesn't work, then expand spaces
07:17:09 <fantasai> Topic: text-autospace
07:17:51 <fantasai> (to close previous discussion, Ishii-san and fantasai will draft something based on above notes, and we will review again with Murakami-san next week)
07:25:39 <fantasai> Looking at definition in old css3-text CR. Not sure what values are needed. Text needs more details (e.g. how much space)
07:27:23 <fantasai> Also doesn't explain what happens when there's punctuation involved at the boundary
07:27:34 <fantasai> IE apparently implements all values (according to MSDN)
07:28:02 <fantasai> This property should have some values to handle French punctuation's non-breaking-thin-space before ! ? and guillemots
07:28:56 <fantasai> U+202F
07:31:10 <fantasai> http://unicode.org/udhr/n/notes_fra.html
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07:34:25 <fantasai> Random notes: 
07:34:39 <fantasai> add text-transform: fullwidth; to transform letters to fullwidth
07:34:46 <fantasai> e.g. acronym { text-transform: fullwidth; }
07:36:47 <fantasai> fantasai asks if text-transform: katakana; is needed to transform hiragana to katakana
07:36:53 <fantasai> Murakami-san doesn't think so
07:37:15 <fantasai> but notes that translating small kana to full-size kana might be necessary for ruby
07:37:54 <fantasai> fantasai: jdaggett mentioned that a good font would have a variant for use in Ruby. Wouldn't it take care of this?
07:41:04 <fantasai> M: rt { text-transform: large-kana; }
07:54:01 <fantasai> Murakami-san notes that automatic transformation of numbers is also needed
07:54:12 <fantasai> e.g. from ASCII to Fullwidth or ASCII to ideographic
07:54:37 <fantasai> fantasai: we also have a font-variant-numeric property
07:55:22 <fantasai> I'm not sure if that's more appropriate or not
07:56:04 <fantasai> We could put it in text-transform and ask jdaggett for comments
08:05:35 <fantasai> side conversation about <acronym>
08:05:44 <fantasai> Would be useful if it didn't use the dictionary to define its meaning
08:05:49 <fantasai> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym_and_initialism
08:08:45 <anne> note that <acronym> is gone from HTML5
08:08:53 <fantasai> yes, I know
08:08:53 <anne> there's only <abbr>
08:09:36 <fantasai> It would be useful if <acronym> were defined in a way that it could be used for all abbreviations that get capital letters
08:10:03 <fantasai> because those are styled specially sometimes
08:10:35 <fantasai> sometimes in small-caps in western typography
08:10:44 <fantasai> usually in fullwidth variants in eastern typography
08:10:46 <fantasai> etc.
08:11:28 <anne> yeah maybe, people hardly use these elements though
08:12:06 <anne> and <abbr class=caps></abbr> is only three characters longer
08:13:40 <fantasai> Yeah, if <acronym> didn't already exist I probably wouldn't think of it
08:13:41 <fantasai> :)
08:17:49 <fantasai> but it does already exist and is implemented,
08:17:54 <fantasai> would be useful in some cases we're discussing
08:20:56 <fantasai> Ok, so summary is new values for text-transform
08:22:02 <fantasai>   fullwidth | large-kana | fullwidth-digits | ideographic-digits
08:36:05 <fantasai> Ishii-san is skeptical that the *-digits values are needed
08:36:09 <fantasai> fantasai doesn't have an opinion
08:37:09 <fantasai> Ishii-san: If you convert digits, would you also convert punctuation like commas and slashes?
08:37:20 <fantasai> OS/2
08:37:22 <fantasai> 21,200
08:37:25 <fantasai> '98
08:38:35 <fantasai> text-transform: fullwidth transforms anything that has a fullwidth variant into that variant
08:38:40 <fantasai> use markup to restrict scope
08:43:26 <fantasai> text-transform: fullwidth | large-kana 
08:44:30 <fantasai> f: could add note wrt large-kana to look into whether font can handle it
08:59:46 <fantasai> break
09:19:45 <fantasai> Murakami-san shows implementation of vertical text with rotated layout
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09:19:50 <fantasai> width and height are swapped
09:19:55 <fantasai> except for replaced elements
09:20:07 <fantasai> due to UA stylesheet img { writing-mode: horizontal; }
09:20:11 <fantasai> which prevents the rotation of its contents
09:20:43 <fantasai> and the swapping of its width and height properties
09:23:05 <fantasai> correction - the contents dont' rotate if the writing mode stays vertical; the width and height properties just swap
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09:24:17 <fantasai> Ishii-san thinks it makes sense for the contents to rotate too
09:27:54 <fantasai> Murakami-san shows floats to the left and right
09:27:58 <fantasai> they float to the top and bottom
09:28:16 <fantasai> we probably have to do this even in an absolute coordinate system, because there are no top/bottom floats
09:28:25 <fantasai> (except in gcpm, but most implementations don't support those)
09:28:37 <fantasai> Murakami-san shows repeat-x
09:28:44 <fantasai> in this implementation it stays as repeat-x
09:28:51 <fantasai> which gives a very different effect...
09:29:14 <fantasai> Murakami-san: Have a sizing problem with background-size as well
09:30:01 <fantasai> Murakami-san: and the implementor thinks the image might need to be rotated
09:34:45 <fantasai> fantasai, Ishii-san: whether background image is rotated depends on the image
09:35:54 <fantasai> Ishii-san: If there are rules for transforming, they should transform everything to be consistent and easy to understand.
09:36:29 <fantasai> Ishii-san: The author can then predict what will happen and tweak the style sheet accordingly.
09:37:16 <fantasai> Murakami-san writes: image-orientation-vertical: upright | 90deg
09:38:33 <fantasai> fantasai: You want to control image rotation per image, not per element
09:40:16 <fantasai> Murakami-san: page-break-before: left and right would need to swap
09:40:52 <fantasai> Murakami-san: In this implementation, "right" is "odd-page"
09:48:01 <fantasai> Murakami-san draws a horizontal writing mode box with a top-border inside a vertical text flow
09:48:08 <fantasai> How do the margins map?
09:48:11 <fantasai> How do the borders map?
09:48:31 <fantasai> fantasai: block formatting context is horizontal, box behaves as vertical box
09:48:42 <fantasai> Ishii-san: what about tables? want borders to match contents there.
09:48:55 <fantasai> Ishii-san: Maybe make the boundary the border edge
09:49:10 <fantasai> Ishii-san: so margins match outer context, borders and padding match inner context
09:49:38 <fantasai> Ishii-san: width and height follow inner context, just like replaced elements.
09:50:44 <fantasai> fantasai: Another thing about tables is that there's an outer box and an inner box.
09:52:30 <fantasai> fantasai: so treating the table borders the same as the inner context would not be inconsistent.
09:52:44 <fantasai> Murakami-san: The box with writing-mode change is a very special box.
09:52:56 <fantasai> Murakami-san proposes an anonymous box.
09:53:13 <fantasai> for the writing-mode-switching div.
09:54:49 <fantasai> Murakami-san: outer box has outer writing mode
09:54:58 <fantasai> Murakami-san: The margin is on the outer box
09:55:46 <fantasai> Murakami-san: borders and padding are set on the inner box
09:57:48 <fantasai> Ishii-san: I made a list of properties that could possibly be affected.
09:58:02 <fantasai> Ishii-san: We talked about border and padding and backgrounds
09:58:06 <fantasai> Ishii-san: also have box-shadow
09:58:12 <fantasai> Ishii-san: position
09:58:19 <fantasai> Ishii-san: caption-side could also be an issue
09:58:31 <fantasai> Ishii-san: clear is ok, just like floats
09:58:36 <fantasai> Ishii-san: clip needs discussion
09:58:50 <fantasai> Ishii-san: multi-column is not a problem
09:59:22 <fantasai> Ishii-san: crop is like clip
09:59:24 <fantasai> fantasai: crop?
09:59:27 <fantasai> Ishii-san: css3-content
09:59:37 <fantasai> fantasai: Oh, we're going to cut that out.
09:59:42 <fantasai> Along with most of the rest of the spec :)
10:00:04 <fantasai> Ishii-san: object-position
10:00:26 <fantasai> Ishii-san: float-offset might not need anything
10:00:35 <fantasai> Ishii-san: width/height/etc we discussed
10:00:48 <fantasai> Ishii-san: image-orientation should be discussed
10:01:06 <fantasai> Ishii-san: overflow-x/y needs discussion
10:01:26 <fantasai> Ishii-san: @page size, I think we can easily agree not to rotate in this case
10:01:54 <fantasai> Ishii-san: Do we need to discuss css-3d-transform perspective-origin?
10:01:56 <fantasai> don't know
10:02:21 <fantasai> Ishii-san: rotation, rotation-point
10:02:26 <fantasai> Ishii-san: And template layout
10:02:52 <fantasai> fantasai: uhh, you'd need to transpose the layout......
10:03:05 <fantasai> Ishii-san: text-align is ok. Text-shadow similar to box-shadow
10:03:26 <fantasai> Ishii-san: form elements and object elements, do they rotate?
10:03:34 <fantasai> Ishii-san: Tables would transpose.
10:03:40 <fantasai> fantasai: yes, certainly
10:04:23 <fantasai> Ishii-san: So basically my idea is that since there are so many properties, and future properties coming every year, just transform the axis and think everything rotates 90deg
10:04:31 <fantasai> Ishii-san: easier than picking which property to rotate
10:05:11 <fantasai> Murakami-san: writing-mode: vertical-transform would mean changing the coordinate system, not just the properties
10:05:23 <fantasai> Ishii-san: My idea is to also rotate the image contents, so it's more than that.
10:07:36 <fantasai> fantasai: whether we define this rotation as a layout thing or as part of a style sheet transformation process, we still have to deal with all these issues
10:10:02 <fantasai> ...
10:10:20 <fantasai> fantasai: If your replaced element is a Flash application, you can't just rotate it like you can with an image
10:14:28 <fantasai> Ishii-san: Back to the image
10:56:58 <fantasai> fantasai writes:
10:57:01 <fantasai> html { 
10:57:05 <fantasai>   transform: rotate(90deg);
10:57:12 <fantasai>   font-variant: vertical;
10:57:13 <fantasai> }
10:57:15 <fantasai> Done.
10:57:30 <fantasai> If we're rotating everything, why don't we actually rotate everything
10:57:42 <fantasai> full-on graphical transform should do the trick
10:57:48 <fantasai> just reset the font
10:57:55 <fantasai> to pretend its vertical
15:54:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #CSS
15:54:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/23-CSS-irc
15:54:41 <kennyluck> RRSAgent: make minutes
15:54:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/23-CSS-minutes.html kennyluck
16:09:51 <arronei> arronei has joined #CSS
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