21:55:31 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:55:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/22-html-a11y-irc
21:55:40 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:55:40 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
21:57:22 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has now started
21:57:29 +Eric_Carlson
21:58:51 zakim, call janina
21:58:51 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:58:52 +Janina
21:59:26 zakim, who's here?
21:59:26 On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, Janina
21:59:27 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, MikeSmith, trackbot
22:00:56 +Sean_Hayes
22:01:50 + +1.650.331.aaaa
22:02:15 zakim, +650 is John_Foliot
22:02:15 sorry, janina, I do not recognize a party named '+650'
22:02:30 +Silvia
22:02:36 zakim, mute me
22:02:36 Silvia should now be muted
22:02:38 zakim, aaa is John_Foliot
22:02:38 sorry, janina, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
22:03:09 zakim, +1.650.331.aaaa is John_Foliot
22:03:09 +John_Foliot; got it
22:03:10 JF has joined #html-a11y
22:03:23 zakim, who's here
22:03:23 janina, you need to end that query with '?'
22:03:27 zakim, who's here?
22:03:27 On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, Janina, Sean_Hayes, John_Foliot, Silvia (muted)
22:03:30 On IRC I see JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, MikeSmith, trackbot
22:03:56 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
22:03:56 Chair: Janina_Sajka
22:03:56 agenda: this
22:03:56 agenda+ Identify Scribe
22:03:56 agenda+ Actions Review
22:03:57 agenda+ Additional Bugs for the Last Call Deadline?
22:03:59 agenda+ Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies
22:04:01 agenda+ WCAG Mapping
22:04:03 agenda+ Spec Text Implications
22:04:05 agenda+ Must/Should/May Categorizations
22:04:07 agenda+ Other Business?
22:04:08 agenda+ next meeting
22:04:11 agenda+ be done
22:04:13
22:04:24 JF has joined #html-a11y
22:04:25 zakim, next item
22:04:25 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
22:04:34 scribe: John_Foliot
22:04:41 zakim, close item 1
22:04:41 agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
22:04:42 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:04:43 2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:04:48 zakim, next item
22:04:48 agendum 2. "Actions Review" taken up [from janina]
22:05:31 JS: Judy may be joining us later
22:06:18 JS: TPAC F2F group have asked Janina to do a presentation at TPAC
22:06:25 zakim, unmute me
22:06:25 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:06:32 believes this work here is important
22:07:06 also looking at integration of HTML5, HTML5 media and a11y also with regard to digital TV
22:07:47 upcoming events: PL has arranged for janina to particpate at a conference next week on Open Sub Titles
22:08:01 Silvia will be at the same conference
22:08:14 may impact on call next week
22:08:37 Silvia: also good to discuss the integration of the spec text at TPAC
22:08:59 JS: if that hasn't happened by then we can address
22:09:02 zakim, mute me
22:09:02 Silvia should now be muted
22:09:11 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
22:09:32 zakim: Action 2
22:10:11 Action 54
22:10:11 Sorry, bad ACTION syntax
22:10:29 JS: working on that with Judy, asking for whatever we can get our hands on
22:11:04 zakim, ACTION 60
22:11:04 I don't understand 'ACTION 60', JF
22:11:12 +Judy
22:11:17 zakim, take up ACTION 60
22:11:17 I don't understand 'take up ACTION 60', JF
22:11:27 JF struggling with IRC today
22:11:33 :(
22:11:43 zakim, take up action 3
22:11:43 I don't understand 'take up action 3', JF
22:11:56 zakim, next item
22:11:56 agendum 3. "Additional Bugs for the Last Call Deadline?" taken up [from janina]
22:12:26 JS: we absolutely must get bugs in by October 1
22:12:35 if there are any other items we need to get them in now
22:13:27 q?
22:13:40 Red letter date for Change Proposals is Feb. 28th
22:13:53 JS: Silvia had a proposal to add a bug
22:14:35 Judy: wants to verify if there are other opportunities to submit other bugs down the road, believes not
22:14:41 +q
22:15:39 Judy: with W3C Last Call there are general processes that are addressed
22:16:05 if substantial issues arise during last Call, then possible that a 'second' last Call would emerge
22:16:18 -Sean_Hayes
22:16:25 we don't have a guarantee for open season for new bugs
22:16:29 q?
22:16:47 ack jf
22:17:27 JF: asks about new issues that emerge after Oct. 1
22:17:35 +Sean_Hayes
22:17:44 q?
22:18:00 Judy: no the issue is that there is a dead-line on fresh bugs
22:18:14 Judy: the uncovering of issues is supposed to be complete by Oct. 1
22:18:26 JS: Is shopping the phrase of First Call
22:18:56 \but Judy is correct that there is no guarantee of a fresh round of bug issues
22:19:31 Judy: stress that we should get bugs in by next week
22:19:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Sep/0435.html
22:20:00 zakim, unmute me
22:20:00 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:20:04 Silvia has suggeste one new bug
22:20:27 Silvia: have reviewed all of the requirements
22:20:38 to ensure that all of our issues are addressed somewhere
22:21:17 there are some existing bugs already
22:21:54 there is a proposed solution for a bug re: Handling of additional tracks of a multitrack audio/video resource
22:22:16 technical discussion should include Eric and Philip (mailing list)
22:22:29 there are a few others related to WebSRT
22:22:40 which is interesting as it is not in our working group
22:23:00 but there are discussions going on in the bug tracker which we are sharing with WHAT WG
22:23:32 however this is one glaring omission: content navigation by Content navigation by content structure
22:23:42 suggest that we get this into the bug tracker ASAP
22:24:15 JS: wonder if there are any others, for example "packaging" - if multiple reasons are being specified do we need to look at that?
22:24:45 Silvia: the only reason this would be an issue is for download issues, likely not an a11y issue
22:24:58 this has already been discussed elsewhere
22:25:11 we really should focus on our key areas in our requirements
22:25:35 however if anyone believes this is an issue then feel free to file a bug
22:25:48 Eric: agrees with Silvia that we should stay focused
22:26:00 JS: concurs
22:26:40 JS: In Section 3 in our requirements, do we need anything for device independence / control access?
22:27:42 Silvi: believes that this is mostly addressed via JS and other areas of the spec
22:28:03 Doesn't believe we have a gap
22:29:00 zakim, mute me
22:29:00 Silvia should now be muted
22:29:48 Judy: Is there any possibility of the bugs we have on record (re: media) does it make sense to review to be sure that they sufficiently capture what we mean?
22:30:13 i.e. should we review the quality of bugs
22:30:45 JS: what we need to make sure is that later down the road we don't get stung by us assuming things are sufficiently covered in existing bugs
22:30:59 zakim, unmute me
22:30:59 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:31:33 ACTION: file a bug re: Content navigation by content structure
22:31:33 Sorry, couldn't find user - file
22:31:46 zakim, mute me
22:31:46 Silvia should now be muted
22:31:55 ACTION: create a bug on Content navigation by content structure to Silvia
22:31:55 Sorry, couldn't find user - create
22:32:02 I give up!
22:32:25 ACTION: silvia to create a bug on Content navigation by content structure
22:32:26 Created ACTION-63 - Create a bug on Content navigation by content structure [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-09-29].
22:32:37 (thanks janina)
22:32:40 ACTION: Silvia to file a bug on HTML 5 for Content Navigation by Content Structure due 20101001
22:32:41 Created ACTION-64 - File a bug on HTML 5 for Content Navigation by Content Structure due 20101001 [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2010-09-29].
22:33:15 zakim, next item
22:33:15 agendum 4. "Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies" taken up [from janina]
22:33:37 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist
22:33:50 3 particular views on this matrix
22:34:08 zakim, unmute me
22:34:08 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:34:50 that was me
22:35:57 zakim, mute me
22:35:57 Silvia should now be muted
22:36:56 Diving into details
22:37:13 curious to know how the WCAG Mapping is going
22:37:18 Sean: Quite interesting
22:37:18 zakim, next item
22:37:18 agendum 5. "WCAG Mapping" taken up [from janina]
22:37:32 seems to be a bit more difficult than first thought
22:37:44 there are a number of details taht aren't covered in WCAG
22:38:02 for example, it says you need to do captions, but doesn't define that further
22:38:15 however we are defining what captions mean
22:38:33 so hasen't been able to do a complet mapping
22:38:44 so navigation issues are coming out quite clearly
22:39:35 audio contrast (which we call Clear audio) WCAG specifies a binary on-off, while we have a graduation requirement
22:40:43 not sure if there is an equiv. doc to WCAG that covers i18n issues
22:41:15 might need to have an additional column to track i18n issues in our matrix
22:41:51 Sean has some vague notes but this is not ready to add to the table
22:42:17 possible bug around the time-limit issue for extended captions - we rquire an ability to turn audio on and off
22:42:20 +Q
22:42:29 q?
22:42:31 zakim, unmute me
22:42:31 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:42:39 q?
22:42:44 perhaps labeling on language
22:42:53 +q
22:43:01 zakim, mute me
22:43:01 Silvia should now be muted
22:43:28 we need to think about things that are not directly covered by WCAG, but are implied
22:43:37 we do have some holes
22:43:47 ack jf
22:44:06 ack silvia
22:44:27 Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:45:51 zakim, mute me
22:45:51 Silvia should now be muted
22:45:55 JF to take an email from Sean and get into bugzilla
22:46:16 1 possibley 2 other bugs
22:46:57 zakim, next item
22:46:57 agendum 6. "Spec Text Implications" taken up [from janina]
22:46:59 zakim, next item
22:46:59 agendum 6 was just opened, janina
22:47:45 zakim, unmute me
22:47:45 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:48:10 q+
22:48:42 ack judy
22:48:53 Judy: still investigating issues around Ip
22:49:08 zakim, who's here?
22:49:08 On the phone I see Eric_Carlson, Janina, John_Foliot, Silvia, Judy, Sean_Hayes
22:49:11 On IRC I see Judy, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, MikeSmith, trackbot
22:49:44 provisional answer is use the text that is in WHAT WG as a base
22:49:55 that we can then re-work to remove WebSRT
22:50:02 at this time
22:50:25 ack silvia
22:50:35 judy but had not fully been able to check this yet
22:50:48 Silvia: we want to take ian's text and remove references to WebSRT
22:51:04 +1
22:51:12 issue is that WebSRT is sliding in as a default standard, so we want to avoid premature inclusion as it has not been discussed
22:51:26 JS: concern about how easy it was to use the text
22:51:46 Sean: hixie uses a build system to make the edits
22:52:11 so it's not as simple of copy and paste, then edit and repost
22:52:19 so we need to have him to do that
22:52:38 so concern that the only person who can make changes is ian
22:52:43 and his impending vacation
22:53:11 Silvia: there are others who can make the changes, although ian should be the one to make the changes
22:53:42 so, we need to approach ian to remove the references to WebSRT
22:54:40 JS: are we hearing the beginning of a request to forward on, which is to have specific sections of the WHAT spec into the HTML WG spec, but technology neutral
22:54:59 +Q
22:55:52 Sean: there are 2 mains sections that we need to address, plus 1 which is a bit more controversial
22:56:10 so the first two are pretty simple and we could easily construct a request based on that
22:57:38 q?
22:57:50 zakim, mute me
22:57:50 Silvia should now be muted
22:58:01 Judy: recommends we check proces with the chairs first
22:58:36 zakim, unmute me
22:58:36 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:59:36 zakim, mute me
22:59:36 Silvia should now be muted
23:00:16 Janina will send an email to the chairs to follow up on the process - URGENT
23:01:14 it appears then that should Ian's text be sanitized minus WebSRT (plus Sean's comments) that would be helpful
23:01:27 Rendering - issues?
23:01:28 zakim, unmute me
23:01:28 Silvia should no longer be muted
23:01:56 Sean; suggest that we insert a placeholder at this point
23:02:21 Silvia: without the rendering we have no way of implementing what we are talking about
23:02:53 q?
23:02:58 ack jf
23:04:13 JF suggests that we get a place holder in, then file a bug for further discussion
23:04:42 q+
23:05:10 zakim, mute me
23:05:10 Silvia should now be muted
23:05:31 ack Judy
23:05:47 Judy: has a response from MichaelSmith
23:06:04 we are free to take what hixie has written and modify as we choose
23:06:29 so seems we can go ahead and use hixies text
23:06:39 s/MichaelSmith/MikeSmith/
23:09:32 MikeSmith_ has joined #html-a11y
23:10:14 Mike, can you be on the phone with us for a few minutes?
23:10:42 janina, sure -- gimme 2 minutes
23:10:46 please
23:11:13 +Eric_Carlson.a
23:11:19 -Eric_Carlson
23:11:53