Provenance Incubator Group Teleconference

17 Sep 2010

See also: IRC log




<trackbot> Date: 17 September 2010

<jun> the UK bridge is still not working:(

<Paolo> jun, I m in through the uk briudge...

<Christine> The French bridge is working

<jun> that's why all the services are busy now?:)

<YolandaGil> I had trouble connecting through the US bridge, but got through, so keep trying

<jun> I dialled in by the US bridge

<kai> same here, but now it seems to work

the UK bridge is working for me

<YolandaGil> Paulo: could you scribe? I don't think you have done it before...

<Paulo> Yolanda, I cannot get in :-( I tried both the uk and us bridges

<YolandaGil> Paulo: keep trying, you'll get through

<pgroth> Paul: major fact unable to track back

<pgroth> Luc: problem of being able to understand provenance from multiple sites

<pgroth> Luc: trust issues and imperfections are still research but require a basic infrastructure

<Paulo> Luc: scalability is a major provenance and we need APIs and models in place to deal with scalability issues

yes, I agree that writing trust policies will be possible

What i meant was that devising a universal measure of trust will be difficult

So, what we want is a provenance platform to enable more functionality/solutions

<Paulo> Yolanda: both trust and provenance scalability requires a provenance representation

<Paulo> Yolanda: what is the “minimal” representation of provenance required to create provenance data

<Christine> Would you need time as well? e.g. content on a page may change over time (e.g. wikipedia entries)

<Paulo> Paul: raises the question on how to associate some content to a person

<ssahoo2> Would we term what Yolanda described as "provenance of provenance"?

<Paulo> Yolanda: raises some legal aspects of encoding the content-person provenance including licensing issues

<Christine> Digital signing?

<Paulo> this distinction between provenance and provenance of provenance is the reason why PML has two major modules, PML-J and PML-P

<Paulo> my phone connection dropped and I cannot take notes

<YolandaGil> no problem Paulo, thanks

<pgroth> phone dropped

<pgroth> back

<Christine> Thank you everyone. My apologies. I need to leave the call.

<YolandaGil> Luc said "devising a universal measure of trust will be difficult" earlier. I think a universal measure is impossible/unrealistic, all trust measures are context/use dependent by definition

<ssahoo2> "all trust measures are context/use dependent by definition" - I would say the same is true for defining "minimal provenance"

difficult was a euphemism!

<Paulo> Luc: a document may have a digital signature but a piece of information in the document may not have a specific signature

<kai> Need to leave earlier today, too. Thanks and bye to all.

<Paulo> Yolanda: asks where provenance information should be placed

The web architecture offers answers to yolanda's point

<Paulo> Paul: for a document, we may have a supporting provenance document or the provenance can also be added to the document

i lost the call


I think what Paulo describes is a primer for provenance publishers

scribe: or provenance "processors"

I think YOlanda didn't use the word minimum but a "small set"

So, when we talk about small data model, we talk about what information is exchanged and not what people keep internally in their systems


<pgroth> sure


<YolandaGil> Yolanda will start a wiki page and include a draft of the recommendations that we discussed on NA scenario

Summary of Action Items

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Possibly Present: Christine DeborahMcG Luc Paolo Paul Paulo SamCoppens Yolanda YolandaGil joined jun kai pgroth prov-xg smiles ssahoo2 trackbot
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Found Date: 17 Sep 2010
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