See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 17 September 2010
<jun> the UK bridge is still not working:(
<Paolo> jun, I m in through the uk briudge...
<Christine> The French bridge is working
<jun> that's why all the services are busy now?:)
<YolandaGil> I had trouble connecting through the US bridge, but got through, so keep trying
<jun> I dialled in by the US bridge
<kai> same here, but now it seems to work
the UK bridge is working for me
<YolandaGil> Paulo: could you scribe? I don't think you have done it before...
<Paulo> Yolanda, I cannot get in :-( I tried both the uk and us bridges
<YolandaGil> Paulo: keep trying, you'll get through
<pgroth> Paul: major fact unable to track back
<pgroth> Luc: problem of being able to understand provenance from multiple sites
<pgroth> Luc: trust issues and imperfections are still research but require a basic infrastructure
<Paulo> Luc: scalability is a major provenance and we need APIs and models in place to deal with scalability issues
yes, I agree that writing trust policies will be possible
What i meant was that devising a universal measure of trust will be difficult
So, what we want is a provenance platform to enable more functionality/solutions
<Paulo> Yolanda: both trust and provenance scalability requires a provenance representation
<Paulo> Yolanda: what is the “minimal” representation of provenance required to create provenance data
<Christine> Would you need time as well? e.g. content on a page may change over time (e.g. wikipedia entries)
<Paulo> Paul: raises the question on how to associate some content to a person
<ssahoo2> Would we term what Yolanda described as "provenance of provenance"?
<Paulo> Yolanda: raises some legal aspects of encoding the content-person provenance including licensing issues
<Christine> Digital signing?
<Paulo> this distinction between provenance and provenance of provenance is the reason why PML has two major modules, PML-J and PML-P
<Paulo> my phone connection dropped and I cannot take notes
<YolandaGil> no problem Paulo, thanks
<pgroth> phone dropped
<Christine> Thank you everyone. My apologies. I need to leave the call.
<YolandaGil> Luc said "devising a universal measure of trust will be difficult" earlier. I think a universal measure is impossible/unrealistic, all trust measures are context/use dependent by definition
<ssahoo2> "all trust measures are context/use dependent by definition" - I would say the same is true for defining "minimal provenance"
difficult was a euphemism!
<Paulo> Luc: a document may have a digital signature but a piece of information in the document may not have a specific signature
<kai> Need to leave earlier today, too. Thanks and bye to all.
<Paulo> Yolanda: asks where provenance information should be placed
The web architecture offers answers to yolanda's point
<Paulo> Paul: for a document, we may have a supporting provenance document or the provenance can also be added to the document
i lost the call
I think what Paulo describes is a primer for provenance publishers
scribe: or provenance "processors"
I think YOlanda didn't use the word minimum but a "small set"
So, when we talk about small data model, we talk about what information is exchanged and not what people keep internally in their systems
<YolandaGil> Yolanda will start a wiki page and include a draft of the recommendations that we discussed on NA scenario
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: Luc Inferring Scribes: Luc WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Christine DeborahMcG Luc Paolo Paul Paulo SamCoppens Yolanda YolandaGil joined jun kai pgroth prov-xg smiles ssahoo2 trackbot You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 17 Sep 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/09/17-prov-xg-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]