21:43:34 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:43:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/15-html-a11y-irc
21:43:43 zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:43:43 ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
21:51:38 JF has joined #html-a11y
21:53:29 JF_ has joined #html-a11y
21:53:50 mkobayas has joined #html-a11y
21:56:52 trackbot, start telcon
21:56:55 RRSAgent, make logs world
21:56:57 Zakim, this will be 2119
21:56:57 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
21:56:58 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:56:58 Date: 15 September 2010
21:57:29 rrsagent, set logs world-visible
21:57:30 zakim, call janina
21:57:30 ok, janina; the call is being made
21:57:31 WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has now started
21:57:32 +Janina
21:57:51 scribe: JF
21:57:57 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
21:57:57 Chair: Janina_Sajka
21:57:57 agenda: this
21:57:57 agenda+ Identify Scribe
21:57:57 agenda+ Actions Review
21:57:58 agenda+ User Requirements: Update RE Additional Disclaimer
21:58:00 agenda+ Proof of Concept Demos; Extended Descriptions from NCAM
21:58:02 agenda+ Time/Track Formats
21:58:04 agenda+ Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies
21:58:06 agenda+ next meeting
21:58:08 agenda+ be done
21:58:11 +Eric_Carlson
21:59:06 +??P9
22:00:46 Judy_DCA has joined #html-a11y
22:01:48 zakim, code?
22:01:48 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), Judy_DCA
22:01:58 +Judy
22:02:21 + +039038aaaa
22:02:31 + +1.425.498.aabb
22:03:54 +Silvia
22:04:06 zakim, +1.425.498.aabb is Sean_Hayes
22:04:06 +Sean_Hayes; got it
22:04:13 zakim, who's here?
22:04:13 On the phone I see Janina, Eric_Carlson, ??P9, Judy, +039038aaaa, Sean_Hayes, Silvia
22:04:16 zakim, mute me
22:04:16 On IRC I see Judy_DCA, mkobayas, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, davidb, MikeSmith, MichaelC, silvia, trackbot
22:04:18 Silvia should now be muted
22:04:21 zakim, +039038 is Kenny
22:04:21 +Kenny; got it
22:05:01 zakim, who's here?
22:05:01 On the phone I see Janina, Eric_Carlson, ??P9, Judy, Kenny, Sean_Hayes, Silvia (muted)
22:05:04 On IRC I see Judy_DCA, mkobayas, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, davidb, MikeSmith, MichaelC, silvia, trackbot
22:05:19 sean has joined #html-a11y
22:05:41 zakim, P9 is John
22:05:41 sorry, Judy_DCA, I do not recognize a party named 'P9'
22:05:48 zakim, ??P9 is John
22:05:48 +John; got it
22:05:55 scribe: John
22:06:08 zakim, john is John_Foliot
22:06:08 +John_Foliot; got it
22:06:16 scribe: John_Foliot
22:06:23 agenda?
22:06:50 zakim:net item
22:06:57 zakim: next item
22:07:18 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
22:07:21 scribe: jf
22:07:34 zakim, take up item 1
22:07:34 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
22:07:47 scribe will be John Foliot
22:07:51 zakim, next item
22:07:51 agendum 1 was just opened, janina
22:07:52 zakim, take up item 2
22:07:52 agendum 2. "Actions Review" taken up [from janina]
22:07:57 zakim, close item 1
22:07:57 agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
22:07:58 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:07:59 2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:08:01 zakim, next item
22:08:01 agendum 2 was just opened, janina
22:08:15 Only one actionitem lefgt, on jduy
22:08:24 zakim, next item
22:08:24 agendum 2 was just opened, JF
22:08:43 zakim, next item
22:08:43 agendum 2 was just opened, JF
22:09:00 zakim take up item 3
22:09:07 s/ actionitem lefgt, on jduy/ action item left, on Judy/
22:09:18 zakim, take up item 3
22:09:18 agendum 3. "User Requirements: Update RE Additional Disclaimer" taken up [from janina]
22:09:28 Janina report last week to the HTML WG
22:09:35 so far no questions or comments
22:09:45 presentation went smoothly and well recieved
22:10:07 +q
22:10:13 zakim, unmute me
22:10:13 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:10:41 yes we can hear Silvia
22:10:44 Silvia, we hear you
22:10:44 ;)
22:11:27 Silvia - Q: did janina speak about a process about moving content into the W3C Draft
22:11:36 regarding technical issues
22:12:09 janina - pointed the chairs to the checklist and user requirements, and indicated that we are very close to analysis of the different time-stamp formats
22:12:12 zakim, mute me
22:12:12 Silvia should now be muted
22:12:37 zakim, next item
22:12:37 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JF
22:12:49 ack Silvia
22:12:56 zakim, next item
22:12:56 agendum 2. "Actions Review" taken up [from janina]
22:13:09 zakim, take up item 4
22:13:09 agendum 4. "Proof of Concept Demos; Extended Descriptions from NCAM" taken up [from janina]
22:13:40 Janina - in conversation with Geoff about proof of concept videos
22:14:01 having examples. even in older formats is useful - Geoff has a number of examples
22:14:31 Janina - just want to confirm that these would be useful, even if using older tech
22:14:57 Eric - useful to have the rendered output so that we can see what it is supposed to look like
22:15:16 and then perhaps the individual pieces so that we can re-create in current technologies as well
22:15:32 will request thta of Geoff
22:15:50 zakin, take up item 5
22:16:01 zakim, take up item 5
22:16:01 agendum 5. "Time/Track Formats" taken up [from janina]
22:16:35 Janina, can we bring over some of the WHAT WG language without specifying WebSRT
22:16:56 +q
22:16:57 seems that via email list that it would be possible but with some work
22:17:09 asking if Sean/Silvia/Eric could work on this?
22:17:28 +[Microsoft]
22:17:42 Sean: concern is over patent Policy
22:17:56 copyright concerns
22:18:22 so what we need to identify the edits we need to have made, ask ian/WHAT WG to make those changes, then move into the W3C spec
22:18:51 so suggest we produce a list of changes and request the editor make the changes
22:18:57 zakim, unmute me
22:18:57 Silvia was not muted, silvia
22:19:22 q+
22:19:50 Silvia: a little worried about us going ahead and making radical changes to ian's work
22:20:07 suggest that we are concerned about the explicit mention of WebSRT
22:20:43 and ak editor if he would be prepared to remove specific reference to WebSRT and instead express the ideas in a more abstract way
22:21:13 q?
22:21:15 frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
22:21:16 so that WebSRT could be one of the text formats, but others would be easily plug-in instead
22:21:19 zakim, unmute me
22:21:19 sorry, Judy_DCA, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
22:21:40 Sean: we could simply ask ian to do thi, and then see what his response is
22:22:02 Judy" believes that we need to involve PHL into this conversation
22:22:08 it may be a bit trickier than this
22:22:29 fair amount of discussion surrounding document license issues
22:22:40 so we need to ensure we are synched up with that dialog
22:22:51 +Q
22:23:09 Judy willing to take action item to see what is happening at W3C right now
22:23:47 Sean: one approach is to work in the wiki, and have ian review that and then adopt
22:23:57 using the wiki a safer route
22:24:03 re: IP issues
22:25:15 JF - ian will be on vacation soon
22:25:30 Judy will investigate timing issues
22:25:48 zakim, mute me
22:25:48 Silvia should now be muted
22:26:49 Janina: 2 possible approaches. start with Silvia's text and ask for bugs against it
22:27:22 of prefer that if Ian takes out the specific WebSRT text 9and provide a list of where) then we can perhaps move more quickly
22:27:45 Eric: sounds like we need to hear back from judy if there are any political or legal blockers
22:28:22 ERic: if we revert back to the work that Silvia did, it will be a lot more work, whereas if we can get ian to work with us it will take much less time
22:28:54 janina: so paht is to await Judy's report back on policy/legal concerns, after which we sent a request to ian
22:29:36 janina: hope that we can get this rolling before next weeks call, with appropriate CC's on the note
22:29:47 more TBD
22:30:07 agenda+ prioritizing user reqs for user agent work
22:30:15 (New Agenda item)
22:30:16 zakim, take up item 9
22:30:16 agendum 9. "prioritizing user reqs for user agent work" taken up [from janina]
22:30:41 +q
22:30:56 Eric: wants to stress his concerns over prioritization of the technical requirements, as if we leave it to browsers to work out that list it will be a dis-jointed effort
22:31:06 ack si, ack ju
22:31:07 Notes thta JF has started working on that
22:31:15 ack sean
22:31:20 ack JF
22:31:27 q-
22:31:33 Sean: perhaps add another column to the table
22:31:36 q+
22:31:37 q-
22:31:50 authors will want to meet WCAG, so have a column thta maps to WCAG a, aa, aaa
22:32:04 q+
22:32:06 so that we also have an idea of which issues impact on WCAG
22:32:22 ack judy
22:32:23 thta would help with a prioritization
22:32:25 q-
22:32:58 Judy: think that what Sean is proposing (tying to WCAG) is an interesting way of looking at it
22:33:10 (notes that they are called conformance levels)
22:33:24 this will also remove some hesitation as these have already been vetted
22:33:49 understands the need to help guide the development process
22:35:09 Judy: tying it to the substance of the WCAG criteria
22:35:42 zakim, unmute me
22:35:42 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:35:57 Sean volunteers to take a run at adding it to the list
22:37:57 q+
22:38:10 q+
22:38:15 Eric: we need to ensure that the core reqs are consistent across all browsers, as this will encourage authors to actually use this stufff
22:39:12 q-
22:40:08 ack janina
22:40:12 ack sil
22:40:31 Seems that the attendees are in agreement that this general thrust is important, and that mapping to WCAG is a way forward
22:41:06 Silvia: what we need to determine the actual technologies which is almost at a higher level
22:41:14 silvia looking at 3 immeadiate needs
22:41:52 inclusion of tracks
22:42:03 interface to multi-track files
22:42:15 q+ to ask silvia whether what has considered the use case where text descriptions exceed primary resource timeline
22:42:28 ensure that we can do the navigation requirements
22:42:43 (ie navigation coordination)
22:43:00 when we figure these out, they will answer many of the questions
22:43:42 we started with a bottom up list, now we need to start with a top down review of technologies, at which point we will reach a middle ground
22:44:10 q?
22:44:18 thinks tracking Must/should.may as well as tracking WCAG A/AA/AAA is useful
22:44:44 but wants to see a programic approach as well
22:45:21 Janina: asking Silvia if WHATWG is understanding some of our more vexxing issues?
22:45:40 silvia - they seem to be, but will need to be tested - they are moving in that direction, but it is too early to tell
22:46:10 zakim, mute me
22:46:10 Silvia should now be muted
22:47:06 ACTIO: Sean to map WACG A, AA, and AAA against our checklist
22:47:11 zakim, unmute me
22:47:11 Silvia should no longer be muted
22:47:26 ACTION: Sean to map WACG A, AA, and AAA against our checklist
22:47:26 Created ACTION-60 - Map WACG A, AA, and AAA against our checklist [on Sean Hayes - due 2010-09-22].
22:48:21 s/WACG/WCAG
22:49:06 Eric: not necessary to call out difference between mobile and desktop
22:50:40 not saying it will be easy work, but not overly concerned
22:51:25 Silvia; audio processing on a mobile device is not really that much - concurs with eric, no real technical restrictions
22:52:17 zakim, mute me
22:52:17 Silvia should now be muted
22:52:21 this will be a place where competition between browsers will be a good thing
22:52:22 q?
22:52:27 ack janina
22:52:27 janina, you wanted to ask silvia whether what has considered the use case where text descriptions exceed primary resource timeline
22:53:16 zakim, take up item 7
22:53:16 agendum 7. "next meeting" taken up [from janina]
22:53:26 zakim, take up item 6
22:53:26 agendum 6. "Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies" taken up [from janina]
22:53:58 thank you
22:54:01 scribenick: silvia
22:54:20 jf: there are still many holes, but we're making progress
22:54:51 … had a conversation with Mike Smith and asked the engineers there to provide input
22:55:02 … input about the different types of technologies that we can add
22:55:13 … also, I took a stab and the must/should/may column
22:56:11 … ppl with extensive knowledge on a11y requirements should chip in
22:56:35 q?
22:56:41 q+
22:56:51 … hopefully it will help Eric's concerns, and the WCAG work will add to that, too
22:56:55 Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:57:08 janina: can you take us through the ones that are mays?
22:57:12 ack janina
22:57:44 jf: see http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist
22:58:26 … DV-3,5,6,7,8,10,11,14 are shoulds
22:58:38 … DV-9,13 are mays
22:59:18 janina: I don't think you can legally make DV-14 a should :-)
23:00:09 -[Microsoft]
23:00:38 jf: … TVD-2 cnt, TVD-3, TVD-4 are shoulds
23:01:43 janina: is this taking us towards where we should go?
23:01:57 … also how will we resolve conflict within the group here on opinions on this?
23:02:19 kenny: I don't have write access to the page actually
23:02:34 michaelc: fixing it now
23:02:53 ACTION: Michael Cooper to grant Kenny Johar to write ability to the wiki (specifically at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist#Technical_Requirements_Prioritizations_and_Dependencies)
23:02:53 Created ACTION-61 - Cooper to grant Kenny Johar to write ability to the wiki (specifically at http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist#Technical_Requirements_Prioritizations_and_Dependencies) [on Michael Cooper - due 2010-09-22].
23:03:14