IRC log of dap on 2010-09-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:30:59 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:30:59 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/15-dap-irc
13:31:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:31:01 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #dap
13:31:03 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DAP
13:31:03 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 29 minutes
13:31:04 [trackbot]
Meeting: Device APIs and Policy Working Group Teleconference
13:31:04 [trackbot]
Date: 15 September 2010
13:31:38 [fjh]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0066.html
13:32:38 [fjh]
Chair: Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:32:53 [fjh]
Present+ Robin_Berjon, Frederick_Hirsch
13:34:41 [fjh]
Regrets+ John_Morris, Niklas_Widell, Laura _Arribas, Claes_Nilsson
13:35:07 [fjh]
Regrets+ Marco_Marengo
13:48:37 [AnssiK]
AnssiK has joined #dap
13:48:46 [darobin]
darobin has joined #dap
13:57:20 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:57:27 [Zakim]
+??P2
13:57:33 [darobin]
Zakim, ??P2 is me
13:57:33 [Zakim]
+darobin; got it
13:57:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.202.637.aaaa
13:57:52 [Suresh]
Suresh has joined #dap
13:58:02 [Suresh]
Present+ Suresh_Chitturi
13:58:19 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
13:58:24 [AnssiK]
Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
13:58:31 [fjh]
zakim, IPcaller is me
13:58:31 [Zakim]
+fjh; got it
13:58:35 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
13:58:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, +1.202.637.aaaa, fjh
13:58:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Suresh, darobin, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, lgombos, Marcos, tlr, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot
13:58:56 [fjh]
zakim, aaaa is enewland
13:58:56 [Zakim]
+enewland; got it
13:58:59 [Zakim]
+ +358.504.86aabb
13:59:05 [AnssiK]
zakim, aabb is AnssiK
13:59:05 [Zakim]
+AnssiK; got it
13:59:05 [enewland]
enewland has joined #dap
13:59:26 [enewland]
present+ erica_newland
13:59:43 [Zakim]
+ +358.504.86aacc
13:59:50 [darobin]
Zakim, mute aacc
13:59:50 [Zakim]
+358.504.86aacc should now be muted
13:59:54 [Fan_HU]
Fan_HU has joined #dap
14:00:05 [ilkka]
zakim, aacc is ilkka
14:00:05 [Zakim]
+ilkka; got it
14:00:15 [Fan_HU]
present+ Fan_HU
14:00:44 [dom]
zakim, code?
14:00:44 [Zakim]
the conference code is 3279 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), dom
14:00:51 [Zakim]
+??P10
14:01:06 [dom]
Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux
14:01:06 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, enewland, fjh, AnssiK, ilkka (muted), ??P10
14:01:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Fan_HU, enewland, Suresh, darobin, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, lgombos, Marcos, tlr, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot
14:01:13 [dom]
zakim, ??P10 is me
14:01:13 [Zakim]
+dom; got it
14:01:16 [Fan_HU]
*Fan: havent dialled yet
14:01:24 [bryan]
bryan has joined #dap
14:01:29 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:01:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, enewland, fjh, AnssiK, ilkka (muted), dom
14:01:34 [Zakim]
On IRC I see bryan, Fan_HU, enewland, Suresh, darobin, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, lgombos, Marcos, tlr, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot
14:01:54 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.216.aadd
14:01:58 [Zakim]
-ilkka
14:02:00 [Suresh]
zakim, aadd is Suresh
14:02:00 [Zakim]
+Suresh; got it
14:02:16 [richt]
richt has joined #dap
14:02:33 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.214.aaee
14:02:45 [Zakim]
+ +44.208.849.aaff
14:02:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.760.705.aagg - is perhaps correct
14:02:55 [dom]
zakim, who's noisy?
14:02:59 [bryan]
present+bryan_sullivan
14:03:05 [Fan_HU]
zakim, aaee is Fan_HU
14:03:05 [Zakim]
+Fan_HU; got it
14:03:06 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Suresh (6%), darobin (5%), fjh (73%)
14:03:11 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:03:20 [Zakim]
+ilkka
14:03:21 [richt]
zakim, aagg is me
14:03:21 [Zakim]
sorry, richt, I do not recognize a party named 'aagg'
14:03:22 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:03:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, enewland, fjh, AnssiK, dom, Suresh, Fan_HU, +44.208.849.aaff, correct, [IPcaller], ilkka
14:03:23 [bryan]
zakim bryan_sullivan aaee handle
14:03:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see richt, bryan, Fan_HU, enewland, Suresh, darobin, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, lgombos, Marcos, tlr, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot
14:03:26 [Fan_HU]
zakim, aaff is Fan_HU
14:03:26 [dom]
zakim, mute illka
14:03:30 [Zakim]
+Fan_HU; got it
14:03:34 [dom]
zakim, mute ilkka
14:03:34 [Zakim]
sorry, dom, I do not know which phone connection belongs to illka
14:03:36 [darobin]
Zakim, mute ilkka
14:03:42 [fjh]
zakim, aaee is bryan
14:03:42 [Zakim]
ilkka should now be muted
14:03:46 [Zakim]
ilkka was already muted, darobin
14:03:48 [Zakim]
sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
14:03:48 [bryan]
thanks
14:03:56 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:03:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, enewland, fjh, AnssiK, dom, Suresh, Fan_HU, Fan_HU.a, correct, [IPcaller], ilkka (muted)
14:03:58 [richt]
zakim, aaee is me
14:04:03 [Zakim]
sorry, richt, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
14:04:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see richt, bryan, Fan_HU, enewland, Suresh, darobin, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, lgombos, Marcos, tlr, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot
14:04:08 [maoteo]
maoteo has joined #dap
14:04:24 [Dong-Young]
Dong-Young has joined #dap
14:04:32 [Dong-Young]
Present+ Dong-Young_Lee
14:04:48 [Dzung_Tran]
Dzung_Tran has joined #dap
14:04:54 [maoteo]
Present+ Maria-Oteo
14:04:54 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:04:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, enewland, fjh, AnssiK, dom, Suresh, Fan_HU, Fan_HU.a, correct, [IPcaller], ilkka (muted)
14:04:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Dzung_Tran, Dong-Young, maoteo, richt, bryan, Fan_HU, enewland, Suresh, darobin, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, lgombos, Marcos, tlr, wmaslowski, ingmar, ilkka, dom,
14:04:56 [Dzung_Tran]
Present+ Dzung_Tran
14:04:58 [Zakim]
... trackbot
14:05:08 [ilkka]
Present+ Ilkka_Oksanen
14:05:36 [dom]
zakim, Fan_HU.a is tmp
14:05:36 [Zakim]
+tmp; got it
14:05:43 [dom]
zakim, Fan_HU is Bryan
14:05:43 [Zakim]
+Bryan; got it
14:05:50 [dom]
Zakim, tmp is Fan_HU
14:05:50 [Zakim]
+Fan_HU; got it
14:06:03 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.335.aahh
14:06:10 [richt]
Present+ Richard_Tibbett
14:06:17 [dom]
Zakim, aahh is James_Salsman
14:06:17 [Zakim]
+James_Salsman; got it
14:06:28 [fjh]
zakim, aahh james
14:06:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aahh james', fjh
14:06:29 [dom]
Zakim, aagg is maybe richt
14:06:29 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'aagg is maybe richt', dom
14:06:38 [fjh]
zakim, aahh is jsalsman
14:06:38 [Zakim]
sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named 'aahh'
14:06:44 [dom]
Zakim, correct is probably richt
14:06:44 [Zakim]
+richt?; got it
14:06:59 [maoteo]
no yet
14:07:56 [dom]
ScribeNick: Bryan
14:07:58 [bryan]
scribenick: bryan
14:08:06 [bryan]
topic: announcements
14:08:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.588.aaii - is perhaps Luis
14:08:49 [bryan]
fjh: will plan to have a bridge at tpac
14:08:53 [dom]
ACTION: Dom to request bridge reservation for TPAC
14:08:53 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-269 - Request bridge reservation for TPAC [on Dominique Hazaƫl-Massieux - due 2010-09-22].
14:08:59 [fjh]
WG questionnaire (for all), http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/43696/tpac2010dap/
14:09:12 [fjh]
TPAC registration (for in-person attendees) http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2010reg/
14:09:20 [fjh]
DOM 3 Last Call
14:09:20 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0060.html
14:09:34 [dom]
(note that 22 people say they will attend to TPAC, but only 16 have effectively registered http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2010reg/registrants#DeviceAP )
14:09:44 [bryan]
fjh: minutes approval
14:09:56 [bryan]
topic: minutes approval
14:09:59 [fjh]
Approve 1 September minutes
14:10:00 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/att-0007/minutes-2010-09-01.html
14:10:05 [bryan]
fjh: 1st sept call
14:10:08 [fjh]
proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 1 Sept 2010 approved
14:10:18 [bryan]
RESOLUTION: Minutes from 1 Sept 2010 approved
14:10:27 [bryan]
topic: access control
14:10:31 [fjh]
Published Tuesday 7 Sept, see http://www.w3.org/News/2010#entry-8886
14:10:41 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0043.html
14:10:58 [lgombos]
lgombos has joined #dap
14:11:01 [dom]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-dap-policy-reqs-20100629/ Device APIs ACcess Control Use cases and Requirements (TR in Sep 7)
14:11:18 [bryan]
fjh: published 7 sept with use case stories, by dom
14:11:51 [dom]
-> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/policy-reqs/ Access Control Use Cases editors draft
14:12:11 [dom]
s/with use case/, updated in editors draft with use case/
14:12:35 [bryan]
fjh: open to publishing as soon as new changes are agreed, e.g. with features
14:12:36 [dom]
(I think publishing it along with the features draft sounds like a good idea)
14:12:45 [bryan]
topic: features
14:12:53 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0016.html
14:13:10 [tlr]
zakim, call thomas-781
14:13:10 [Zakim]
ok, tlr; the call is being made
14:13:12 [Zakim]
+Thomas
14:13:13 [bryan]
fjh: updated the draft, dom suggested to remove features
14:13:18 [tlr]
zakim, I am thomas
14:13:18 [Zakim]
ok, tlr, I now associate you with Thomas
14:13:20 [tlr]
zakim, mute me
14:13:20 [Zakim]
Thomas should now be muted
14:13:52 [Suresh]
q+
14:13:52 [bryan]
fjh: didn't go into features as trouble finding use cases for it in BONDI
14:14:41 [fjh]
bryan: notes that features were intended to be used for API versioning
14:15:19 [fjh]
bryan: capabilities probably enough if at same level of granularity
14:15:31 [darobin]
q?
14:15:45 [darobin]
q+ jsalsman
14:16:03 [fjh]
ack suresh
14:16:15 [dom]
(we already resolved not to worry about APIs versioning)
14:16:29 [fjh]
bryan: ok with not using features in DAP
14:16:35 [bryan]
suresh: thats OK in BONDI context given the explanation by bryan
14:16:44 [richt]
no API versioning was the very first decision this working group made :)
14:17:01 [dom]
(I propose the stop talking about "features" or "capabilities", but only talking about "permissions"
14:17:02 [bryan]
suresh: in the context of widgets we need though some representation of the APIs as feature tags
14:17:24 [bryan]
fjh: isn't that the same as the API
14:17:33 [darobin]
[+1 to dom, though the DOM has "feature strings"]
14:18:03 [bryan]
suresh: may not need the same level as BONDI provided, but in what the feature config requires we need to define features
14:18:09 [bryan]
q
14:18:18 [Zakim]
-ilkka
14:18:35 [bryan]
fjh: we don't need features ala bondi to do permissons but do in config
14:19:00 [Suresh]
At the minimum we need to specify the "features" that are required for using our APIs in the context of widgets
14:19:05 [darobin]
what Widgets have is "feature": http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/#feature0
14:19:14 [Zakim]
+ilkka
14:19:15 [bryan]
dom: my proposal goes a bit further - rather than capabilities and features, focus instead on permissions
14:19:15 [ilkka]
zakim, mute me
14:19:16 [Zakim]
ilkka should now be muted
14:19:25 [Balaji]
Balaji has joined #dap
14:20:24 [Suresh]
yes so we need to standardize the set of "feature names" which is an IRI
14:20:25 [bryan]
james: re granularity, the issue is connotation , i.e. what you want your devices to be able to do. re features and capabilities its more about how to write the document - if we use only features, where are the capabilities supposed to go
14:20:38 [Balaji]
Present+Balaji_NerellaVenkataramana
14:20:54 [bryan]
fjh: permissions would be more obvious - the feature/capabilties model in bondi adds complexity we dont need
14:21:09 [bryan]
james: where would capabilities go if taken out
14:22:45 [bryan]
fjh: essentially the same thing, we can discuss granularity, but attempts to access are permitted or not. we need the concept of permissions fundamentally, and also a way to define those things that are permitted or not
14:23:55 [bryan]
dom: want to focus only on permissions, not a distinction between features and capabilities
14:24:19 [bryan]
fjh: maybe misunderstood that the intent was to remove capabilities
14:24:31 [shepazu]
shepazu has joined #dap
14:24:50 [bryan]
fjh: meant that we need trust domains, permissions, and naming to bind to feature elements in widget spec
14:24:53 [bryan]
q+
14:25:03 [fjh]
ack jsalsman
14:25:03 [dom]
ack jsal
14:25:06 [bryan]
james: supports the proposal
14:25:06 [fjh]
ack bryan
14:25:33 [Zakim]
+ +91.80.67.82.aajj
14:26:12 [Suresh]
Widgets spec requires that the feature names is a IRI
14:26:23 [bryan]
fjh: re using feature strings vs abstracted device capabilities, robin had a proposal to define capabilities and prefix as needed with a base API reference
14:27:41 [maoteo]
Zakim, aajj is Maria
14:27:42 [Zakim]
+Maria; got it
14:28:05 [dom]
zakim, who's noisy?
14:28:16 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fjh (71%), Bryan (5%), Maria (52%)
14:28:16 [bryan]
bryan: would like to have the more generic string to enable a single policy for different APIs using the same device capabilities
14:28:17 [dom]
zakim, mute maria
14:28:18 [Zakim]
Maria should now be muted
14:28:33 [bryan]
fjh: versioning would still need to be considered
14:28:39 [maoteo]
I was not
14:29:01 [dom]
zakim, unmute maoteo
14:29:01 [Zakim]
sorry, dom, I do not know which phone connection belongs to maoteo
14:29:11 [dom]
zakim, unmute Maria
14:29:11 [Zakim]
Maria should no longer be muted
14:29:20 [bryan]
fjh: summary, we dont need features and will call the things permissions, id the method that applies to a permission with a string
14:29:31 [bryan]
fjh: propose dom do work on that
14:29:49 [bryan]
RESOLUTION: we will not include the concept of features in the DAP V1 work
14:30:36 [bryan]
fjh: clarifying, features here means specifically as used in the bondi sense
14:30:39 [Zakim]
-richt?
14:31:14 [richt_]
richt_ has joined #dap
14:31:15 [Marcos_]
Marcos_ has joined #dap
14:31:19 [bryan]
suresh: we are collapsing features and capabilities into one thing and calling them permissions
14:31:28 [Zakim]
+ +1.760.705.aakk - is perhaps Alan
14:31:38 [richt_]
zakim, aakk is me
14:31:38 [Zakim]
sorry, richt_, I do not recognize a party named 'aakk'
14:31:48 [fjh]
s/suresh/fjh/
14:32:54 [dom]
zakim, who's noisy?
14:33:05 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (9%), fjh (62%), Bryan (9%)
14:33:07 [bryan]
bryan: bondi included the distinction to enable control of permission for device capabilities shared by different APIs
14:33:49 [dom]
[I think the high level resolution is that we're using a single layer of permissions, more than on the specific word]
14:34:28 [bryan]
james: recommend using the term connotation rather than permission
14:34:42 [dom]
s/term connotation/term with a positive/
14:34:45 [bryan]
fjh: thinks permissions has a positive connotation
14:34:51 [dom]
s/positive/positive connotation/
14:35:14 [Suresh]
access pemissions
14:35:26 [dom]
zakim, who's noisy?
14:35:36 [Zakim]
dom, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (5%), fjh (100%), Bryan (5%), Maria (29%)
14:35:40 [dom]
Zakim, mute maria
14:35:40 [Zakim]
Maria should now be muted
14:35:41 [bryan]
fjh: permissions is used elsewhere and we should use the same term
14:35:41 [tlr]
zakim, mute maria
14:35:41 [Zakim]
Maria was already muted, tlr
14:35:58 [bryan]
fjh: permissions is a straightforward concept
14:36:38 [bryan]
dom: at this time, what we are agreeing is to use a single layer of permissions - the name for that we can decide later on - as a start I will refer to permissions but we can settle that later
14:36:55 [bryan]
jamesL withdraw the objection
14:37:05 [bryan]
james: withdraws the objection
14:37:05 [dom]
s/jamesL/james/
14:37:37 [dom]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we will use a single layer model for access permissions
14:37:52 [bryan]
RESOLUTION: we will use a single layer model for access permissions
14:38:44 [bryan]
james: can we defer or resolve to replace the work permissions with a more positive connotation
14:38:57 [dom]
ACTION-263 due next week
14:38:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-263 Take a stab at DAP features doc due date now next week
14:39:04 [bryan]
fjh: let see what dom comes up with and we will discuss it on the list
14:39:25 [richt_]
this conversation is becoming a bit circular right? perhaps dom can propose something and we can rediscuss on the call next week if necessary.
14:39:38 [bryan]
james: preferred to defer the resolution
14:39:47 [richt_]
take it to the mailing list?
14:40:08 [bryan]
dom: the resolution is only about the modeling and not the name/terms of the concepts in it
14:41:44 [bryan]
topic: WARP in browser context
14:41:58 [fjh]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0034.html
14:42:08 [fjh]
not much to do with this
14:42:11 [fjh]
right now
14:42:12 [bryan]
robin: dont recommend discussing this now
14:42:19 [fjh]
keep it on the list
14:42:22 [bryan]
fjh: the proponents are not on the call
14:42:29 [bryan]
topic: privacy
14:42:36 [fjh]
action-210?
14:42:36 [trackbot]
ACTION-210 -- Alissa Cooper to summarize and add issues to ruleset doc -- due 2010-07-21 -- OPEN
14:42:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/210
14:42:53 [bryan]
topic: APIs
14:43:12 [bryan]
topic: Contacts
14:43:28 [darobin]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-contacts-coord/
14:43:42 [bryan]
darobin: mailing list created for contacts coordination
14:44:06 [bryan]
darobin: progressing toward common understanding
14:44:19 [bryan]
darobin: a new draft was announced
14:44:28 [Suresh]
q+
14:44:46 [darobin]
http://www.w3.org/mid/9B2983F7-D3C0-4EE3-B9AF-BDCE6B53271B@robineko.com
14:44:46 [bryan]
richt: the draft looks into formats, proposed extensions, look at the cvs diff log for the changes
14:45:10 [bryan]
darobin: made a post about pending op
14:45:59 [bryan]
darobin: any sync in wrt needs to define the way it works in terms of HTML event loops and task queues
14:46:16 [bryan]
darobin: basically a mental model to explain the way things happen
14:47:24 [bryan]
darobin: e.g. if a request is cancelled before completion the two actions related to this need to put on a task queue so they are handled in the right order
14:47:36 [bryan]
richt: so the need is to understand the process model etc
14:48:05 [bryan]
richt: the HTML device spec has pending op specified, is that the best place to put this
14:48:39 [bryan]
darobin: different APIs will have different needs re what to do when cancel is called - so we need specific text for each spec
14:49:01 [bryan]
richt: will see what can be done for contacts re this
14:49:14 [bryan]
darobin: we can use the text for the other APIs as template
14:49:36 [darobin]
q?
14:49:37 [bryan]
darobin: anne form opera will be able to help
14:49:40 [darobin]
ack Suresh
14:49:42 [dom]
[I've added the need to look at asyncronous calls in terms of the HTML5 event loop in http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/wiki/ApiCheckList]
14:50:08 [bryan]
suresh: was on the contacts coordination call - thought we should discuss this and decide what is next
14:50:16 [tlr]
q+
14:50:44 [tlr]
zakim, unmute me
14:50:44 [Zakim]
Thomas should no longer be muted
14:50:47 [darobin]
ack tlr
14:50:51 [darobin]
ack Thom
14:50:52 [bryan]
suresh: we got info on what is being done but there was no decision on how to converge - do we want to discuss this now or give more time for this
14:51:25 [bryan]
tlr: there is an ongoing discussion between ietf and poco -that needs time
14:51:53 [bryan]
tlr: the mapping between vcard3 and cab needs to be considered as this might impact vcard4
14:52:09 [bryan]
tlr: the OMA has the action item to review the info available
14:52:31 [bryan]
suresh: expecting Christina to respond - she has the action
14:52:47 [bryan]
tlr: that response should clarify the story
14:53:32 [bryan]
suresh: looking back at the API, don't know what happened to the note re contacts schema for further study
14:54:13 [Balaji]
zakim, aajj is yourHandle
14:54:13 [Zakim]
sorry, Balaji, I do not recognize a party named 'aajj'
14:54:26 [bryan]
richt: made some changes to reflect the call discussion, so removed the note re poco schema. we are not now saying that we are compatible with poco etc
14:54:31 [tlr]
also my fault; I probably referred to our API as PoCo-based on multiple occasions
14:54:33 [fjh]
zakim, aajj is balaji
14:54:33 [Zakim]
sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named 'aajj'
14:54:43 [fjh]
zakim, who is here?
14:54:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see darobin, enewland, fjh, AnssiK, dom, Suresh, Bryan, Fan_HU, [IPcaller], James_Salsman, Luis, Thomas, ilkka (muted), Maria (muted), Alan
14:54:45 [bryan]
richt: but focusing on extensions, how to include them
14:54:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Marcos, richt_, shepazu, Balaji, lgombos, Dzung_Tran, Dong-Young, maoteo, bryan, Fan_HU, enewland, Suresh, darobin, AnssiK, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, tlr, wmaslowski,
14:54:49 [Zakim]
... ingmar, ilkka, dom, trackbot
14:55:05 [bryan]
richt: still up in the air, not a specific mapping to vcard or poco
14:55:31 [bryan]
suresh: the formats refer to poco schema still - seems to be dependent
14:55:51 [bryan]
richt: those attributes are vcard attributes (all are)
14:56:22 [bryan]
suresh: need to reflect the open issue re formats
14:56:31 [bryan]
richt: will put a statement back in
14:57:12 [dom]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0072.html Dom's comments on updated contacts draft
14:57:37 [bryan]
suresh: some comments were provided on the list re attributes related to social networking - we should avoid dependency on these e.g. relationships
14:57:50 [bryan]
richt: these are vcard4 attributes
14:58:12 [dom]
[relationship can be used outside of a social network, I would think]
14:58:16 [bryan]
suresh: to be useful, we need a service tied to the contacts format
14:58:39 [dom]
(this is all about ISSUE-98)
14:58:43 [dom]
ISSUE-98?
14:58:43 [trackbot]
ISSUE-98 -- On what data model should the contacts API be based? -- open
14:58:43 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/98
14:59:07 [bryan]
richt: don't agree we have social attributes specifically - this is still ongoing and we need to continue the coordination work on the coord list
14:59:15 [Zakim]
-enewland
14:59:29 [bryan]
richt: we need to be active in that discussion to influence it
15:00:10 [bryan]
richt: do detail the specific issues on the list
15:00:34 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:00:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/15-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:00:42 [bryan]
suresh: a lot depends upon convergence in the coord group - we need a plan b in case that does not happen
15:02:00 [bryan]
richt: the timelines for poco and vcard are their own - we could go for example with a vcard subset and let the market decide what is useful
15:03:03 [bryan]
richt: looking at including an html integration part to the spec - may delay until we address current feedback
15:03:18 [bryan]
richt: this will include integrating with the device element of html
15:03:45 [bryan]
darobin: concerned about the dependency in the spec - maybe better outside
15:03:50 [dom]
(separate spec sounds better to me)
15:04:05 [bryan]
richt: how about a non-normative section
15:04:09 [darobin]
q+ salsman
15:04:17 [darobin]
ack salsman
15:05:18 [bryan]
topic: Capture
15:05:45 [bryan]
darobin: action on John for privacy, not here so that will wait
15:06:04 [Zakim]
-Suresh
15:06:16 [bryan]
james: on device element with audio, there are no open echo cancellation algorithms
15:06:37 [bryan]
darobin: its unclear whether the device element is in scope for this group
15:06:49 [Zakim]
-Luis
15:07:17 [bryan]
darobin: the element is a couple of months away from being published - but a good point for the a/v part of the device element
15:07:19 [darobin]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Sep/0010.html
15:07:29 [richt_]
HTML Device is already being implemented: https://labs.ericsson.com/blog/beyond-html5-conversational-voice-and-video-implemented-webkit-gtk ;)
15:07:38 [ilkka]
zakim, unmute me
15:07:38 [Zakim]
ilkka should no longer be muted
15:07:44 [bryan]
darobin: we have an open cfc for capture - believe most comments have been resolved
15:07:58 [dom]
ilkka: not all, but most of them
15:08:13 [bryan]
in the lab
15:08:19 [ilkka]
zakim, mute me
15:08:21 [Zakim]
ilkka should now be muted
15:08:57 [darobin]
[group goes textual due to ilkka's noise]
15:09:11 [darobin]
ilkka, are the missing ones important?
15:09:33 [dom]
[I'm hoping the remaining issues be documented in the draft itself]
15:09:51 [bryan]
darobin: we are trying to check if all the changes have been included - need to know if we can move ahead and publish - if the remaining issues are minor, propose to move forward with a pwd
15:09:56 [darobin]
ilkka, can you put notes for the issues that weren't fixed?
15:10:22 [bryan]
darobin: need to put notes for the issues that weren't fixed?
15:10:34 [bryan]
illka: ok
15:10:58 [bryan]
darobin: anyone objecting to publishing with notes?
15:11:20 [bryan]
james: there were some concerns about objections re audio
15:11:33 [richt_]
I believe that the audio format was discussed on the WHATWG without resolution (what to choose is the problem).
15:11:50 [bryan]
james: does anyone object to a proposed audio format?
15:12:15 [bryan]
dom: we discussed this and had resolved to not recommend a default at this time
15:12:22 [richt_]
start of discussion on WHATWG: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-September/028337.html
15:12:44 [dom]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: publish Media Capture API as new draft with issues highlighted in the document
15:13:17 [bryan]
james: have w3c considered what should be default formats?
15:13:28 [bryan]
darobin: yes, unsure where though
15:13:38 [dom]
(+1 on audio codec discussion belonging to HTML WG)
15:13:43 [bryan]
tlr: the location for that should be in HTML5 in the html wg
15:13:58 [bryan]
james: did that two weeks ago and there was no objection
15:14:18 [bryan]
james: at least one member said it would be difficult to obtain concensus
15:14:50 [bryan]
dom: suggest to move this to html wg where there is a defined process for consensus
15:15:22 [bryan]
darobin: we don't want different spec in w3c to recommend different options
15:15:25 [darobin]
RESOLUTION: publish Media Capture API as new draft with issues highlighted in the document
15:15:25 [bryan]
RESOLUTION: publish Media Capture API as new draft with issues highlighted in the document
15:15:55 [darobin]
ACTION: Ilkka to add notes to the MCAPI draft and ping Robin when ready
15:15:55 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-270 - Add notes to the MCAPI draft and ping Robin when ready [on Ilkka Oksanen - due 2010-09-22].
15:16:08 [bryan]
topic: calendar
15:16:18 [darobin]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-calendar-coord/
15:16:21 [Zakim]
-Thomas
15:16:41 [bryan]
darobin: new coordination call and mailing list - suggest to join if you have interest
15:16:57 [dom]
q+ to ask about schedule/roadmap for calendar API FPWD
15:17:19 [fjh]
s/*Fan: havent dialled yet//
15:17:29 [fjh]
s/zakim bryan_sullivan aaee handle//
15:17:31 [bryan]
darobin: on the call, we discussed status and call connects group described their work including caldav restful version and xcal, json version etc - we agreed to keep in touch on the issues
15:17:34 [darobin]
ack dom
15:17:34 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to ask about schedule/roadmap for calendar API FPWD
15:17:37 [fjh]
s/thanks//
15:17:50 [fjh]
s/no yet//
15:17:58 [bryan]
dom: we had talked about publishing a pwd for calendar - wonder about the status
15:18:25 [dom]
(also, what about TimezonedDate publication?)
15:18:51 [bryan]
richt: long overdue, stuck re a couple of issues. A good way forward e.g. xcalendar and mapping to js - will get the draft ready in the next two weeks to month
15:19:03 [bryan]
darobin: good to get it out before tpac
15:19:14 [bryan]
richt: can do
15:19:37 [dom]
q+
15:19:49 [darobin]
ack dom
15:20:08 [darobin]
http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/calendar/TimezonedDate.html
15:20:30 [bryan]
dom: re creating a new timezone date interface, drafting is in progress and can this be included in the near term?
15:20:50 [bryan]
richt: a rough draft is in progress, not sure what approach to use
15:21:05 [bryan]
darobin: a service requires a connection and service discovery
15:21:38 [bryan]
james: it would be useful to discuss the underlying julian date and what info is available from it
15:22:17 [bryan]
darobin: when we publish calendar we should try to include this
15:22:40 [bryan]
james: include the ISO spec with a description of the number of bits it takes
15:23:23 [dom]
dom has left #dap
15:23:29 [dom]
dom has joined #dap
15:23:33 [bryan]
richt: the ISO format is the cause of the problem
15:24:04 [bryan]
topic: sysinfo
15:24:43 [bryan]
darobin: not much movement since the last version - we need to review the draft to move to last call soon
15:24:51 [dom]
q+ to ask about pendingop
15:25:01 [darobin]
ack dom
15:25:01 [Zakim]
dom, you wanted to ask about pendingop
15:25:02 [richt_]
Using an ISO date in a recurring rule there is no way to represent a timezone rule (or timezone id). Instead it uses timezone offset at a fixed point in time. That does not represent the time for any further recurring date of the event.
15:25:16 [bryan]
dom: re need to integrate with HTML5 event loops - this is needed here also
15:25:30 [richt_]
...if the timezone offset changes to -4 then a UTC timestamp will be coordinating the call at the wrong time.
15:25:36 [bryan]
darobin: yes, all async interfaces need that so it needs to be included before last call
15:25:38 [richt_]
...hence the TimezonedDate object
15:25:57 [bryan]
darobin: would rather solve it once for all specs
15:26:06 [richt_]
s/-4 then a UTC timestamp /-4 then the ISO representation (of e.g. -5)
15:26:17 [darobin]
ACTION: Robin to figure out the event loop stuff for sysinfo
15:26:17 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-271 - Figure out the event loop stuff for sysinfo [on Robin Berjon - due 2010-09-22].
15:26:27 [dom]
ISSUE: Sysinfo asynchronous calls needs to be expressed in terms of events loop
15:26:27 [trackbot]
Created ISSUE-102 - Sysinfo asynchronous calls needs to be expressed in terms of events loop ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/102/edit .
15:27:59 [bryan]
james: should the capture API be closer to last call - due to issues with network attributes
15:28:47 [bryan]
james: are there any attributes that are off limits - any restrictions on what the network attributes can include
15:29:06 [bryan]
james: for example packet sniffing
15:29:19 [bryan]
darobin: what is the relationship with sysinfo
15:29:39 [bryan]
james: we need a wide variety of quality of service metrics
15:30:21 [bryan]
darobin: we resolved that, and unless there is new info we have agreed on the current set of attributes
15:30:54 [dom]
james, do you have a pointer to a specific proposal for additions?
15:31:01 [bryan]
james: still think there is a need to a wide array of quality of service metrics from the network interface
15:32:04 [Zakim]
-AnssiK
15:32:05 [dom]
[SysInfo is certainly not targeted for use by network engineers]
15:32:05 [Zakim]
-Maria
15:32:08 [Zakim]
-Fan_HU
15:32:09 [Zakim]
-Bryan
15:32:09 [Zakim]
-Alan
15:32:10 [Zakim]
-James_Salsman
15:32:10 [Zakim]
-ilkka
15:32:12 [Zakim]
-dom
15:32:18 [fjh]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:32:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/15-dap-minutes.html fjh
15:32:26 [Zakim]
-darobin
15:32:27 [Zakim]
-fjh
15:37:22 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
15:37:24 [Zakim]
UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
15:37:25 [Zakim]
Attendees were darobin, +1.202.637.aaaa, fjh, enewland, +358.504.86aabb, AnssiK, +358.504.86aacc, ilkka, dom, +1.408.216.aadd, Suresh, +1.425.214.aaee, +44.208.849.aaff,
15:37:28 [Zakim]
... +1.760.705.aagg, [IPcaller], Bryan, Fan_HU, +1.650.335.aahh, James_Salsman, richt?, +1.617.588.aaii, Thomas, +91.80.67.82.aajj, Maria, +1.760.705.aakk
17:35:52 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dap
19:33:10 [tlr]
tlr has joined #dap
20:24:38 [bryan]
bryan has left #dap