21:56:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:56:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-html-a11y-irc
21:57:01 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(A11Y)
21:57:01 <Zakim> ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
21:58:58 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
21:59:47 <janina> zakim, call janina
21:59:47 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
21:59:48 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(A11Y)6:00PM has now started
21:59:50 <Zakim> +Janina
22:00:06 <janina> zakim, who's here?
22:00:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina
22:00:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, MikeSmith, trackbot
22:00:09 <Zakim> + +1.408.823.aaaa
22:00:19 <Zakim> + +1.650.862.aabb
22:00:39 <janina> zakim, aabb is John_Foliot
22:00:39 <Zakim> +John_Foliot; got it
22:01:25 <Zakim> +Judy
22:01:42 <JF> zakim, aaaa is Eric Carlson
22:01:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaaa is Eric Carlson', JF
22:02:25 <janina> zakim, who's here?
22:02:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, +1.408.823.aaaa, John_Foliot, Judy
22:02:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, MikeSmith, trackbot
22:02:40 <Zakim> + +44.154.558.aacc
22:03:08 <janina> zakim, aacc is Sean_Hayes
22:03:08 <Zakim> +Sean_Hayes; got it
22:04:09 <janina> zakim, aaaa is Eric_Carlson
22:04:09 <Zakim> +Eric_Carlson; got it
22:04:26 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
22:04:27 <janina> Chair:  John Foliot
22:04:27 <janina> agenda:         this
22:04:27 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe
22:04:27 <janina> agenda+         Actions Review
22:04:28 <janina> agenda+ Update re: User Requirements Status; Intro at HTML-WG Telecon
22:04:29 <janina> agenda+ Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies:
22:04:31 <janina> agenda+         next meeting
22:04:33 <janina> agenda+         be done
22:04:45 <janina>  zakim, agenda?
22:04:45 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
22:04:47 <Zakim> 1. Identify Scribe [from janina]
22:04:49 <Zakim> 2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:04:51 <Zakim> 3. Update re: User Requirements Status; Intro at HTML-WG Telecon [from janina]
22:04:53 <Zakim> 4. Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies: [from janina]
22:04:55 <Zakim> 5. next meeting [from janina]
22:04:55 <Zakim> 6. be done [from janina]
22:05:02 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
22:05:02 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe" taken up [from janina]
22:05:09 <janina> scribe: janina
22:05:19 <janina> zakim, next item
22:05:19 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, janina
22:05:27 <janina> zakim, close item 1
22:05:27 <Zakim> agendum 1, Identify Scribe, closed
22:05:28 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:05:30 <Zakim> 2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:05:34 <janina> zakim, next item
22:05:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Actions Review" taken up [from janina]
22:05:43 <janina> zakim, agenda?
22:05:43 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
22:05:44 <Zakim> 2. Actions Review [from janina]
22:05:46 <Zakim> 3. Update re: User Requirements Status; Intro at HTML-WG Telecon [from janina]
22:05:48 <Zakim> 4. Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies: [from janina]
22:05:50 <Zakim> 5. next meeting [from janina]
22:05:50 <Zakim> 6. be done [from janina]
22:07:13 <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
22:07:49 <Zakim> +Silvia
22:07:56 <janina> zakim, close action-52
22:07:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close action-52', janina
22:08:07 <janina> rrsagent, close action-52
22:08:07 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'close action-52', janina.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
22:08:17 <janina> action-52: close
22:08:17 <trackbot> ACTION-52 Create a prioritized list due 30 august notes added
22:08:58 <janina> action-53: closed
22:08:58 <trackbot> ACTION-53 Find location for ncam extended description demos notes added
22:08:58 <trackbot> If you meant to close ACTION-53, please use 'close ACTION-53'
22:09:05 <silvia> close ACTION-53
22:09:05 <trackbot> ACTION-53 Find location for ncam extended description demos closed
22:09:42 <silvia> close ACTION-52
22:09:42 <trackbot> ACTION-52 Create a prioritized list due 30 august closed
22:09:42 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
22:09:43 <janina> re action-54 still requires confirmation, held over
22:09:46 <janina> zakim, next item
22:09:46 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Update re: User Requirements Status; Intro at HTML-WG Telecon" taken up [from janina]
22:09:49 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
22:09:58 <janina> zakim, who's here?
22:09:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, Eric_Carlson, John_Foliot, Judy, Sean_Hayes, Silvia (muted)
22:10:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, trackbot
22:10:01 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
22:10:07 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
22:10:15 <janina> zakim, who's here?
22:10:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, Eric_Carlson, Judy, Sean_Hayes, Silvia (muted), [Microsoft]
22:10:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, trackbot
22:13:24 <JF> seems my call failed, I am logging back in
22:13:33 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
22:14:55 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
22:15:24 <janina> js: issues with voip presentint last week, user reqs rescheduled for this week
22:15:59 <janina> js: also, html-wg strongly invited to consensus around our user reqs, so that we will not confuse discussion of them with technology solutions as we move forward.
22:16:20 <janina> zakim, who's here?
22:16:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, Eric_Carlson, Judy, Sean_Hayes, Silvia, [Microsoft], John_Foliot
22:16:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see MikeSmith, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, silvia, trackbot
22:17:17 <janina> zakim, microsoft is Frank_Olivier
22:17:17 <Zakim> +Frank_Olivier; got it
22:17:37 <JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist
22:17:57 <janina> zakim, next item
22:17:57 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Technical Requirements Prioritizations and Dependencies:" taken up [from janina]
22:19:02 <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Media_Accessibility_Checklist
22:19:13 <janina> jf: is this the way we should proceed?
22:19:17 <janina> zakim, make log public
22:19:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make log public', janina
22:19:28 <silvia> zakim, mute me
22:19:28 <Zakim> Silvia should now be muted
22:19:32 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
22:19:40 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
22:19:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
22:19:56 <silvia> q+
22:20:02 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
22:20:02 <Zakim> Silvia should no longer be muted
22:20:23 <janina> fo: suggesting ml a primary concern
22:20:32 <janina> fo: also resource identification
22:20:52 <janina> sp: one of the first ml expected coming from what. there are others we want to look at.
22:21:05 <janina> sp: specifically, websrt.
22:21:22 <janina> fo: but, before we get to that, what's the ml like within the track?
22:21:52 <janina> sp: ml has gone in to the what spec, also javascript, and how to render
22:22:03 <janina> sp: personally, few issues with what what has so far re ml
22:22:51 <janina> fo: believe the resource identification is ok--will be helpful to have spec text soon, esp if for ie9
22:23:21 <frankolivier> frankolivier has joined #html-a11y
22:23:27 <janina> sp: currently what in discussion on spec; i've been active there; ian has responded, and i have yet to digest his response
22:24:15 <janina> sp: we want to see it done right, which means we need to ramp up our work
22:24:28 <janina> sp: we need to provide feedback on what we need addressed
22:25:24 <janina> jb: i believe the discussion needs to be happening on w3c lists, not on what, esp as what has not covered a11y systematically
22:25:40 <janina> [pinging sivia! irc to silvia!]
22:26:10 <janina> jb: agrees with silvia that timing is essential issue, but our reqs work has also been essential
22:26:42 <janina> jb: it will be helpful to position the main dialog of our work on w3c space, especially as we are coordinating on a11y
22:26:54 <janina> q?
22:27:22 <janina> ec: what silvia is talking about is the track selection proposal which only exists in the what wg at this time
22:27:43 <janina> jb: i think it's a broader discussion than that
22:28:09 <janina> jb: yes, we need to keep our pace moving forward
22:28:36 <janina> sh: how did the group have a discussion about text. we need to discuss before it goes into the spec. we can't have a text mechanism without that discussion.
22:28:47 <janina> sh: we need to get a proposal on the floor.
22:28:58 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
22:28:58 <Zakim> Silvia should no longer be muted
22:29:13 <janina> jb: i think we can achieve that via our issues and proposals.
22:29:45 <janina> jb: also, we're looking at ways to adjust the tf process to help streamline this, though can't say more on this at this time. the expectation is better process.
22:30:16 <janina> jf: earlier in the year we had proposals in the wiki, we set those aside as we revisited user reqs.
22:30:29 <janina> jf: i believe we also ran a wbs against these? not sure ...
22:30:38 <janina> jf: it's not that we haven't been there ...
22:30:45 <janina> ack s
22:31:19 <janina> sp: agree with everything people are saying. problem there is currently no spec text in w3c docs
22:31:33 <janina> sp: after next what revision people are likely to start implementing based on what specs
22:32:04 <janina> sp: this is why we need to do both.
22:32:37 <janina> jb: so maybe just a few more moments on process, and then we return to the spec text in place
22:33:18 <janina> jb: suggest actioning self and janina to timeline getting spec text for us to consider.
22:34:17 <janina> jf: q, what about our 2 earlier proposals? track api, etc, are they up to date?
22:35:03 <janina> ec: text that's in what spec is all based on our docs earlier in the year.
22:35:16 <janina> ec: ian working with silvia has refined our earlier work, refining it into spec text
22:35:32 <janina> ec: in my opinion he has improved on our start, though it is definitely based on our earlier effort
22:36:07 <janina> sp: exactly.sp: existing text that relates to javascript api and to ml is ok, and should go in.
22:36:28 <janina> sp: suggest proposing to integrate into w3c docs so that we can move forward
22:36:51 <silvia> the sections that should be adopted into the W3C spec are:
22:37:02 <silvia> * the <track> markup
22:37:09 <silvia> * the related JavaScript API
22:37:19 <janina> jf: can we ask silvia to do that on email first? so we can first discuss on email?
22:37:23 <silvia> * the related rendering section
22:38:12 <janina> js: we need to make sure our reqs are not defeated by this spec lang
22:38:24 <janina> jf: yes, so if we have it in our docs, we can take up that discussion.
22:38:46 <janina> jf: we need to be very cautious, but also expeditious
22:40:06 <janina> jb: ok with moving building blocks forward. and thanks, frank, for provoking us to move forward. we're in better shape on this today than a few months ago!
22:40:15 <janina> jf: so, can we return to the matrix?
22:40:16 <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Media_Accessibility_Checklist
22:40:51 <janina> jf: currently four columns -- the bulleted item, it's identifier, the must/shoud/may; and the tech required for it
22:41:09 <janina> jf: if we can agree on the content, then we can cross check and make decisions
22:41:45 <janina> jf: looking at captioning, which is filled out fairly well, is this the way to go? is this useful?
22:41:57 <janina> [silence]
22:42:04 <janina> jf: ok, taking silence is ascent
22:42:21 <janina> jf: so, how to proceed? on call? assigning sections to indivieduals?
22:42:56 <janina> jf: what do our engineers think?
22:43:49 <janina> sp: think we should finish then we can start looking at proposed specs, ttml, websrt, etc
22:44:04 <janina> jf: but the question is how to continue with the matrix?
22:44:13 <janina> jf: should we just work on the call?
22:44:24 <Zakim> -Judy
22:44:40 <Zakim> +Judy
22:45:19 <janina> sp: we should continue on email
22:45:32 <janina> ec: agree on email, and editing wiki, should be most expeditious
22:46:12 <janina> jf: so, we have a list of one word tech identifiers; should we agree a list that we would ascribe? or, am i overthinking this.
22:46:20 <janina> ec: not sure.
22:47:30 <janina> js: suggesting a working gloss list up top, so as to be consistent in our identifier usage.
22:47:33 <janina> ec: yes
22:47:54 <janina> jf: suggest starting with the terms already proposed
22:48:05 <janina> [john is reading the current list ...]
22:49:03 <janina> js: do we need to distinguish video vs audio rendering
22:49:26 <janina> js: could be audio.rendering, tts.rendering, video.rendering
22:50:21 <silvia> zakim, mute me
22:50:21 <Zakim> Silvia should now be muted
22:51:06 <janina> jf: agree distinction between types of rendering is important, and a dictionary list up top will be useful.
22:51:21 <janina> jf: looking now for wholesale progress, not the refining points ---- at this time
22:52:14 <Zakim> -Frank_Olivier
22:52:31 <frankolivier> phone trouble; calling back
22:53:00 <janina> js: suggesting even quick and dirty defs in the gloss/dictionary would be helpful
22:53:07 <janina> ec: agree with basic gloss up top
22:53:32 <janina> jf: are there other tech questions we need to discuss now?
22:53:55 <janina> ec: no, without having seen the list, nothing is coming to mind.
22:54:09 <janina> jf: so we have a path, perhaps a short meeting today?
22:55:14 <janina> js: looking to our engineering professionals to take the lead on filling this out
22:55:27 <janina> jb: really think we need commitment, including deadlines on this
22:55:39 <janina> jb: perhaps go around the room on this?
22:56:03 <janina> jb: if not specific actioning, it won't happen. we're all busy with competing priorities.
22:56:56 <janina> [john raising that question around with our engineers ...]
22:57:31 <janina> ec: don't have much time, and it's impossible for me to commit to particular sections not having seen the matrix, but i will spend time on it this week
22:57:37 <silvia> zakim, unmute me
22:57:37 <Zakim> Silvia should no longer be muted
22:58:08 <janina> sp: eric, suggest picking an area not yet marked up and go for it. i suggest that's how each of us should proceed.
22:58:11 <janina> sp: i will do the same.
22:58:34 <janina> sp: i'm particularly interested in the qtext format, for instance, but everything needs assessment.
22:58:57 <janina> sh: will take a look at it, but my ability is intermittant at the moment as i'm traveling this weekend.
22:59:51 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
22:59:55 <Judy> q+
23:00:02 <janina> jf: so, we've agreed progress in our larger task is facilitated by progress on this matrix, so we need to get this done
23:00:34 <janina> jb: want to ask some additional questions re process moving forward ...
23:00:51 <janina> jb: talking re people on the call right now ...
23:01:42 <janina> jb: willing to ask others to help
23:01:45 <silvia> I just had an initial go at a Glossary under the matrix: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist#Glossary
23:02:06 <janina> sp: silvia, why am i not surprised! i love your get it done spirit!
23:02:44 <janina> jb: any suggestions for moving other pieces moving forward in parallel, please speak up
23:03:28 <janina> js: will ask kenny johar re struct nav and granularity
23:03:38 <janina> js: also geof freed re dv and captioning
23:03:59 <davidb> davidb has joined #html-a11y
23:04:41 <janina> js: suggest we not go too far afield looking for people to work on this, as it may only add confusion
23:04:58 <janina> sp: jim allen
23:05:09 <janina> jf: i'll ask jim
23:05:43 <janina> sp: we want to wrap this next week, if we can.
23:05:47 <janina> jf: yes
23:06:33 <janina> jb: have we forgotten our mini presentations on formats? websrt, ttml, etc?
23:07:22 <janina> sp: suggest starting with ttml next week, assuming matrix is ready, believe sean was on tap for ttml?
23:07:27 <janina> jb: sean, is that still ok?
23:07:32 <janina> sean, yes
23:08:02 <janina> sean, will take some work between the table being completed and preparing the presentation.
23:08:34 <janina> jf: user reqs have not changed
23:08:47 <janina> sean: but there's this table, i need to work off this table matrix
23:11:08 <janina> js: but what we need is a complete matrix, so the tech column can be sorted, dups removed, and we can build a matrix showing what available techs provide, such as ttml, websrt, etc.
23:11:16 <janina> jf: anything else today?
23:11:22 <janina> js: we're done for today
23:11:33 <janina> jf: thanks all
23:11:38 <Zakim> -Eric_Carlson
23:11:40 <janina> jb: thanks for the wiki page.
23:11:45 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
23:11:46 <Zakim> -Silvia
23:11:46 <Zakim> -Judy
23:11:46 <janina> zakim, bye
23:11:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
23:11:47 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Janina, +1.408.823.aaaa, +1.650.862.aabb, John_Foliot, Judy, +44.154.558.aacc, Sean_Hayes, Eric_Carlson, Silvia, Frank_Olivier
23:11:55 <janina> rrsagent make minutes
23:12:06 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
23:12:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/08-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
23:44:14 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
23:53:39 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y