13:50:06 RRSAgent has joined #lld 13:50:06 logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc 13:50:18 rrsagent, bookmark 13:50:18 See http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T13-50-18 13:50:53 zakim, this will be LLD 13:50:53 ok, emma; I see INC_LLDXG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 13:51:14 Meeting : LLDXG 13:51:26 Chair : Emmanuelle 13:51:37 Agenda : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0007.html 13:51:49 Previous minutes : http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html 13:52:06 Regrets : Ray, Monica, Lars, Nicolas, Oreste 13:52:20 rrsagent, make record public 13:52:34 bernard has joined #lld 13:53:08 ready! 13:53:16 même ps peur :) 13:53:27 Scribe : Bernard 13:53:38 scribenick: bernard 13:54:10 antoine has joined #lld 13:54:31 INC_LLDXG()10:00AM has now started 13:54:37 +emma 13:55:47 aseiler has joined #lld 13:56:43 +aseiler 13:56:59 +michaelp 13:57:15 zakim, mute aseiler 13:57:15 aseiler should now be muted 13:58:04 + +49.173.609.aaaa 13:58:37 GordonD has joined #lld 13:58:39 +??P12 13:58:51 zakim, ??P12 is me 13:58:51 +antoine; got it 13:58:58 marcia has joined #LLD 13:59:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html antoine 13:59:32 + +44.468.463.aabb 13:59:33 Nice number seems unavaible 13:59:46 zakim, aabb is marma 13:59:47 +marma; got it 13:59:59 i logged in over nice 14:00:05 is +33.4.26.46.79.03 working? 14:00:06 kcoyle has joined #lld 14:00:12 TomB has joined #lld 14:00:17 michaelp has joined #lld 14:00:22 + +1.330.655.aacc 14:00:23 @bernard: nice is working for me 14:00:31 jodi has joined #LLD 14:00:34 ww has joined #lld 14:00:34 digikim has joined #lld 14:00:38 zakim, aacc is marcia 14:00:38 +marcia; got it 14:01:04 matolat has joined #lld 14:01:19 +??P21 14:01:23 +??P19 14:01:35 j'y serais dans qq minutes 14:01:38 digikim 14:01:44 zakim, mute me 14:01:44 marma should now be muted 14:01:44 either P21 or P19 14:01:48 zakim, ??P21 is kcoyle 14:01:48 +kcoyle; got it 14:01:59 +??P22 14:02:10 zakim, ??P22 is TomB 14:02:10 +TomB; got it 14:02:10 zakim, ??P22 is TomB 14:02:11 I already had ??P22 as TomB, TomB 14:02:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html TomB 14:02:27 +[LC] 14:02:28 Zakim, LC is edsu 14:02:28 +edsu; got it 14:02:39 I'm getting an all-circuits-busy signal on the bristol number - will try again 14:02:41 +jeff.a 14:02:47 rsinger has joined #lld 14:02:52 AlexanderH has joined #lld 14:03:08 +[LC] 14:03:09 + +1.856.528.aadd 14:03:14 zakim, jeff.a is matolat 14:03:14 +matolat; got it 14:03:18 what is the URL of the agenda? (couldn't find it in my email or in wiki...) 14:03:30 can onyone else scribe I can't get the phone line :( 14:03:31 zakim, LC is is kevin 14:03:31 I don't understand 'LC is is kevin', antoine 14:03:42 zakim, aadd is jodi 14:03:42 +jodi; got it 14:03:46 kevinf has joined #lld 14:03:47 zakim, LC is kevin 14:03:47 +kevin; got it 14:04:07 +??P5 14:04:11 kevinf++ # glad to have you here :-) 14:04:23 zakim, ??P5 is AlexanderH 14:04:25 +AlexanderH; got it 14:04:41 zakim, kevin is kevinf 14:04:41 +kevinf; got it 14:05:12 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose kcoyle 14:05:42 Nice number is down and Bristol is busy 14:05:53 fsasaki has joined #lld 14:05:58 Scribe: Karen 14:06:08 scribenick: kcoyle 14:06:21 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Sep/0007.html 14:06:21 rrsagent, please draft minutes 14:06:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html emma 14:06:33 +rsinger 14:07:01 zakim, mute me 14:07:01 rsinger should now be muted 14:07:13 +jon 14:07:29 zakim, mute me 14:07:29 sorry, jeff_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 14:07:31 thanks Karen, sorry about that 14:07:52 Topic: Admin 14:07:53 +??P38 14:08:00 -??P38 14:08:49 RESOLUTION: accept previous teleconn minutes 14:09:19 q+ to say I have created a draft agenda at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010 14:09:35 ack TomB 14:09:35 TomB, you wanted to say I have created a draft agenda at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JointMeeting2010 14:09:40 f2f meeting: Tom - has posted draft agenda 14:10:03 page is on wiki 14:11:00 signups on wiki page for attendence at f2f: all sign up on page 14:11:50 ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburge to use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not 14:11:54 --- continue 14:12:13 -- continues 14:12:22 ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01] 14:12:25 Cologne possible informal meeting, Dec. 1, morning 14:12:26 --CONTINUTES 14:12:40 Full SWIB10 programme now online at http://swib.org/swib10/ 14:12:46 s/CONTINUTES/CONTINUES 14:13:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html TomB 14:13:33 +44-117-370-6152 is giving me "number not in service..." 14:13:34 Use cases next 14:13:53 ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01] 14:14:07 -- continues 14:14:24 s/Use cases next/Topic: Use cases 14:14:30 +??P41 14:14:33 Doodle poll still open, please add your name if you want to join later on: http://www.doodle.com/tdxwapytnxrsm4tm 14:14:46 zakim, ??P41 is bernard 14:14:46 +bernard; got it 14:15:16 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Talk:Use_Case_Template 14:15:29 zakim please mute me 14:15:33 Discussion on list has been added to Talk page of template 14:15:39 AlexanderH has joined #lld 14:16:00 +1 14:16:06 zakim, mute me 14:16:06 bernard should now be muted 14:16:21 Antoine: use same template for use cases and for case studies? 14:16:31 s/Antoine/AlexanderH 14:17:36 Alexander: template designed for use cases; can same template be used also for case studies? 14:18:30 Antoine: dual use could mean some difference in how sections are used, but should be ok 14:20:33 no objection 14:20:38 AlexanderH has joined #lld 14:21:09 ACTION: use same template for use cases and case studies 14:21:59 RESOLVED: use same template for use cases and case studies 14:22:05 s/ACTION/RESOLVED/ 14:22:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html TomB 14:22:56 q+ to suggest that we can get responses by email or in the public wiki 14:23:20 ack jodi 14:23:20 jodi, you wanted to suggest that we can get responses by email or in the public wiki 14:23:56 Topic: name ok 14:24:05 Topic: owner ok 14:24:15 q+ to suggest to make the other sections not subchapters of Name 14:24:27 ack jneubert 14:24:27 jneubert, you wanted to suggest to make the other sections not subchapters of Name 14:25:04 Just chnaged it! 14:25:42 topic: goal - there have been problems with this one. needs to be clear that it is goal of user, not of use case 14:25:50 "user goal"? 14:26:20 Antoine: leave as is 14:26:23 -aseiler 14:26:39 RESOLVED: do not change today 14:27:35 -jneubert 14:27:37 +aseiler 14:27:58 zakim, mute me 14:27:58 aseiler should now be muted 14:28:14 topic: use case scenario section - 14:28:25 ... may not be applicable to case studies 14:28:26 +jneubert 14:28:58 i thought this was one of the easier sections 14:29:02 q+ 14:29:14 ack jeff 14:29:39 Jeff: sees no problem using for both types 14:29:44 +1 - do not see a problem using use case scenario for case studies 14:29:46 q+ 14:29:57 ack antoine 14:30:13 Antoine: also in favor of keeping it 14:30:23 q+ to ask about actors 14:30:35 ack ed 14:30:35 edsu, you wanted to ask about actors 14:31:01 actors is given maybe by the next section "target audience" :-) 14:31:01 q+ 14:31:19 edsu: had some trouble with who the actor is; actor as person rather than software 14:31:37 q+ 14:31:45 ack jeff 14:32:36 q+ to ask about the use case template and how to solicit the info we need 14:32:38 can't hear the discussion, but just to make a point that came up on the openbiblio list, w.r.t. owl:sameAs - representations of information are tied closely to the intent of the users of the information - their goals, the context. "relevance" of properties, attributes, rules, etc. always as to do with this, it is really, "relevant given the intent and context of the user" 14:32:40 Jeff: tried to get human purpose into case, included both human and machine 14:32:44 ack antoin 14:32:47 thanks jeff 14:33:12 q? 14:33:49 antoine: target audience would be place for person 14:34:32 ack jodi 14:34:32 jodi, you wanted to ask about the use case template and how to solicit the info we need 14:34:39 antoine: i like that idea of having the target audience guide who the actors are 14:34:49 +1 14:35:15 Jodi: might be easier to have more interactive way to get information 14:35:28 q+ 14:35:37 ... with a curator who receives the case 14:35:38 ack antoin 14:36:36 antoine: need template, but for skos use cases asked for use cases by mail and could go back and ask questions if needed. Is that what jodi intends? 14:37:04 jodi: more about preface 14:38:53 should target audience be before scenario in template? 14:39:07 edsu: good to think about who you are writing it for earlier in template 14:39:11 +1 14:39:13 I don't see "target audience" at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Template 14:39:19 RESOLVED: move target audience before scenario 14:39:35 q+ to ask whether my small explanation text is ok... 14:39:41 ACTION: add target audience to template 14:39:57 ack ant 14:39:57 antoine, you wanted to ask whether my small explanation text is ok... 14:39:58 q+ 14:40:46 ack jeff 14:40:53 audience = main audience for case; should we add computer as possible audience? 14:41:01 RESOLVED: Add computer as possible audience 14:41:33 topic: application of linked data section 14:41:40 PHILOSOPHICAL DIVERSION: can a computer have intent? 14:41:52 q+ 14:42:14 jeff: use of URI patterns tends to distract from case; hard to come up with realistic examples that look like good URIs 14:42:15 ack alex 14:43:08 Alex: could talk about use of patterns in scenario, to explain examples in linked data 14:43:19 jeff: perhaps uri patterns deserve their own use case 14:43:29 I like to see it 14:43:30 q+ to ask how "patterns" are coming into discussion and whether this notion should be captured in the template - note: relates to application profiles 14:43:35 +1 for using uri patterns in describing use cases 14:43:36 ack Tom 14:43:38 TomB, you wanted to ask how "patterns" are coming into discussion and whether this notion should be captured in the template - note: relates to application profiles 14:43:42 +matolat.a 14:44:04 to me, URI patterns seem like something separate (standards of practice, best practices) -- not a 'use case' 14:44:35 q+ 14:44:40 maybe URI patterns to be a wiki page 14:44:53 ack ant 14:44:55 TomB: re: patterns; not directly related to templates, but more related to application profiles 14:45:45 Antoine: patterns is an important issue, but not the only one. better not to try to fit them all into use cases 14:46:21 +1 okay, not trying to fit them into all use cases 14:46:27 +1 14:46:39 topic: Existing work section 14:47:05 discussion page has new wording 14:47:08 q? 14:47:24 RESOLVED: accept wording on discussion page 14:47:41 topic: vocabularies -- no discussion 14:47:58 q+ to make it optional? 14:48:06 ack ant 14:48:06 antoine, you wanted to make it optional? 14:48:06 topic: problems and limitations section -- 14:48:19 q+ 14:48:21 Antoine: this should be optional 14:48:40 RESOLVED: make problems and limitations optional section 14:48:46 ack jeff 14:49:18 topic: related use cases section 14:49:23 no comments 14:49:38 +1 14:49:41 +1 14:49:42 +1 14:49:42 antoine: let's keep that beast just for us :-) 14:49:45 topic: lld data dimensions/topics -- propose drop it 14:49:49 +1 14:49:56 use only to curate use cases afterward 14:50:06 antoine: yes, i think they will be useful for analysis after we get them 14:50:20 +1 14:50:25 RESOLVED: drop LLD Dimension/topics section for call for use cases; keep for curation 14:50:41 topic: references section --- no problems 14:51:13 I've made the chances we agreed on at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Template 14:51:19 s/chances/changes 14:51:31 topic: prototypes and applications -- put content under existing work instead 14:51:46 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail 14:52:33 topic: call email text 14:53:50 I wonder if 'research' and 'experiments' are also welcome or not. 14:54:05 q+ 14:54:12 ack marci 14:54:46 marcia: do these have to be real uses, or can research activities be included? 14:55:03 does the answers know what linked data is? 14:55:11 answer: anything should be welcome 14:55:13 s/answerers/ 14:55:20 the draft mail mentions "considering doing it in the near future" :-) 14:56:05 RESOLVED: group to comment on email text by Monday, Sept. 6 14:56:13 suggest to add a link to the Linked Data basic principles 14:57:14 antoine: need use case curation team; for interaction with use case senders 14:57:20 is Library Linked Data a well know definition? Will we get straight Linked Data case? 14:57:29 I would like to volunteer for curation. :) 14:57:40 Refer to tis page? http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html 14:58:03 emmanuelle volunteers 14:58:07 here's the spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/ 14:58:30 alex also "volunteers" 14:58:44 how do we select who to send the questionary? 14:59:06 yes that's the next point :-) 14:59:15 topic: what lists to send mail to? 14:59:45 we should have a page of the listservs, e.g., IFLA-L, ASIST... and decide who will send 14:59:56 http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DisseminationLists.html 15:00:48 -jon 15:00:58 ACTION: by Monday members should add to list of email lists; 15:01:26 proposal : push the announcement URL on our respective Twitter status 15:01:30 Action should include a link to the list 15:01:39 ACTION: group to comment on email text by Monday, Sept. 6 15:01:52 q+ on actions 15:02:09 q+ to suggest we add a link to the ACTION on adding to list of email lists 15:02:31 q? 15:02:36 ack antoine 15:02:36 antoine, you wanted to comment on actions 15:02:42 ack TomB 15:02:42 TomB, you wanted to suggest we add a link to the ACTION on adding to list of email lists 15:03:02 -edsu 15:03:13 thanks 15:03:16 -jeff 15:03:22 -michaelp 15:03:24 -bernard 15:03:26 bye 15:03:27 bye 15:03:28 -jneubert 15:03:28 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:03:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html antoine 15:03:30 -kevinf 15:03:32 -marcia 15:03:35 bye 15:03:35 bye 15:03:36 -AlexanderH 15:03:38 -digikim 15:03:39 bye 15:03:40 -rsinger 15:03:40 jodi has left #LLD 15:03:44 -jodi 15:03:46 -marma 15:04:01 zakim, list attendees 15:04:01 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/Scribing.html 15:04:02 -kevinf 15:04:10 -matolat 15:04:14 -aseiler 15:04:19 [adjourned] 15:04:26 [adjourned] 15:04:28 As of this point the attendees have been emma, aseiler, jeff, +49.173.609.aaaa, jneubert, antoine, +44.468.463.aabb, marma, +1.330.655.aacc, marcia, digikim, kcoyle, TomB, edsu, 15:04:33 ... +1.856.528.aadd, matolat, jodi, AlexanderH, kevinf, rsinger, jon, bernard, michaelp 15:04:46 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:04:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html TomB 15:06:10 bye 15:06:40 ACTION: kai will try to update Karen's use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action03] 15:06:44 --DONE 15:07:02 rrsagent please draft minutes 15:07:05 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2010Aug/0100.html 15:07:23 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:07:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html emma 15:09:01 email text : http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Use_Case_Call_Mail 15:09:18 list of email lists : http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DisseminationLists.html 15:10:17 rrsagent, please draft minutes 15:10:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-minutes.html emma 15:10:51 zakim, bye 15:10:51 Zakim has left #lld 15:10:53 leaving. As of this point the attendees were emma, aseiler, jeff, +49.173.609.aaaa, jneubert, antoine, +44.468.463.aabb, marma, +1.330.655.aacc, marcia, digikim, kcoyle, TomB, 15:10:55 ... edsu, +1.856.528.aadd, matolat, jodi, AlexanderH, kevinf, rsinger, jon, bernard, michaelp 15:11:31 rrsagent, bye 15:11:31 I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-actions.rdf : 15:11:31 ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburge to use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not [1] 15:11:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T14-11-50 15:11:31 ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01] [2] 15:11:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T14-12-22 15:11:31 ACTION: Potential attendees in Pittsburgh to use wiki page to indicate whether they are attending or not at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action01] [3] 15:11:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T14-13-53 15:11:31 ACTION: use same template for use cases and case studies [4] 15:11:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T14-21-09 15:11:31 ACTION: add target audience to template [5] 15:11:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T14-39-41 15:11:31 ACTION: by Monday members should add to list of email lists; [6] 15:11:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T15-00-58 15:11:31 ACTION: group to comment on email text by Monday, Sept. 6 [7] 15:11:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T15-01-39 15:11:31 ACTION: kai will try to update Karen's use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/08/26-lld-minutes.html#action03] [8] 15:11:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/02-lld-irc#T15-06-40